Leaf473

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Like before, it seems you might be on to something. :) Are you wondering if the boss had made any exceptions or otherwise said something to limit what apples need to be obtained?
Yes, that's the idea.

Maybe the boss had said one thing to some previous workers, but to us he said, "Just take care of my orchard."
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Israel WAS not "US" LGW. God didn't give the covenant and its laws to US LGW. God was very specific to whom the laws of the covenant applied. Ex19:5-6
According to the scriptures Israel is simply a name given by God to all those who believe and follow what God's Word says and is outside of the covenants Bob because the name was given to Jacob and passed down to his sons that made of the twelve tribes of Israel. So the name Israel is simply a name given by God to all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says. irrespective of covenant. All the covenants do is shown who were Gods' people in any given point in time. If you are not a part of God's Israel you have no part in Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. God never made a covenant with Gentiles. So once again Bob, Israel is "us". The name Israel is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow God's Word so it is not covenant dependent. (scripture here linked).
Interpreted as we who observe the Israelite's Sabbath. The day that was never given to any other nation or people. The Sabbath that is taken from the ministry that brought that was written on stone and is no longer Israel's guide and in fact has been done away? 2Cor3:6-11 KJV
There was no Israel when Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for mankind Bob * Mark 2:27, only Adam and Eve who were created on the 6th day of creation in the image of God *Genesis 1:36-31. God created the Sabbath for mankind on the 7th day of creation according to the scriptures (Genesis 2:1-3). An interpretation that 2 Corinthians 3 is talking about abolishing Gods' 10 commandments has Paul in contradiction to Paul when he says in Romans 3:31 that faith does not abolish Gods' law it establishes God's law and again in Romans 13:8-10 where Paul says we love our neighbor as our self by being obedient to those laws in God's 10 commandments that show us our duty of love to our fellow man. Indeed the ministration of the Spirit is greater the than the ministration of the letter because while the letter brings death and condemnation, the Spirit brings life and forgiveness through Christ who writes the law on the heart through faith that works by love which is Gods' new covenant promise in all those who have been born again to believe and follow God's Word and walk in newness of life *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 6:1-23. It is not therefore God’s 10 commandments that have become obsolete it is the ministration of condemnation and death through the ministration of God’s forgiveness and His sacrifice for our sins. God’s Word does not teach lawlessness (without law) which is what your promoting here.
Sorry LGW, my Bible doesn't reveal anything about my having to be part of "God's Israel".
According to the scripture, Gods' Israel in the new covenant are simply all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says. It is true though if we continue in sin and unbelief we are not a part of Gods' Israel as this is what Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 is warning us about. According to the scriptures, Gods' Israel in the new covenant is no longer all those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham in fulfillment of Gods' promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Gods' Israel is now everyone who has been born again in the Spirit to believe and follow what Gods Word says (Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Romans 2:28-29). As posted earlier if you are not a part of Gods' Israel by believing and following what Gods' Word says then we have no part in Gods' new covenant promise given by God to Israel in Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27.
My Bible tells me by believing Jesus is my Savior and I love others as He loves us we won't even be judged. Jn 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. Jesus words to man never required that gentiles to become part of Israel. We are part of the tree that is fed by Him not dead Israel. Again, our requirement is to love our fellow man as Jesus loves all mankind. Jn15:9-14 and 1Jn 3:19-24
Mine too and your point is? What does it mean to believe Jesus? It means to believe and follow His Words right *John 3:36? What does it mean to love God and our fellow man? It means to be born again in the Spirit through faith to obey Gods' 10 commandments from the heart which is God's new covenant promise given to Israel as shown in Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. According to the scriptures love does not abolish God's law like you are trying to teach Bob. Love establishes God's law in the life of all those who have been born again in the Spirit to believe and follow what God's Word says (see 1 John 3:4-9; Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-3; John 14:15).
Jesus IS the name the only name. He is God and believing in Him results in our enjoying eternal life. Ephesians 2: 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
So your point here is Bob? You did not make one.
Abraham believed and he was not given the name Israel.
According to the scriptures, Abraham received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also. (Romans 4:11). Abraham is the father of Israel. The name Israel was not given by God to His people until Jacob who wrestled with the Angel for deliverance from His brother as a sign of faith.

Take Care Bob.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I beg to differ. God made the Sabbath for Israel not mankind. They were to rest and contemplate Creation and God delivering them out of slavery. Sabbath, in no way, was for all mankind. The proof can be found in history. No other nation on Earth ever kept the Seventh-day as a Holy day.
Not really Bob. These are of course your words not God's Word that says God made the Sabbath for all mankind in Mark 2:27. When God made the Sabbath for all mankind it was made on the "seventh day" of the creation week. There was no Israel when God made the Sabbath for all mankind. According to the scriptures, the Sabbath is a memorial of creation not leaving Egypt as shown in Exodus 20:10-11. Sorry Bob, these are God's Words not mine that disagree with your words in this post that are not God's Word but simply your words unsupported by scripture.
To whom is God addressing when He gave those words?
God was addressing the Jews when he said that the Sabbath was made for mankind. Jesus did not say that the Sabbath was made for the Jew or Israel. There however was no Jew and no Israel or Moses, when God made the Sabbath for mankind only Adam and Eve who are the parents of mankind made in the image of God (see Mark 2:27; Genesis 1:26-31; Genesis 2:1-3. Context is king here.
All for Israel and no one else.
According to the scriptures, the name "Israel" is simply a name given by God to all those who believe and follow what God's Word says and is not covenant dependent. (scripture here linked).
Led many away??? How about providing some proof of that statement. By the way, we do not worship Sunday, we worship on Sunday.
Sunday worship is proof and is there for all who have eyes to see.
I surely would not be casting stones concerning the breaking of commandments. I have never met one Sabbath observer that kept from speaking his/her own words or doing his/her own pleasure on the day that was Holy only to the nation of Israel. I believe it was called profaning the Sabbath.
That would be for God to judge not us (see Romans 2:1-12; Matthew 7:1-5)
"We"? I believe that to be a supposition. What was never given certainly couldn't be forgotten
Not really Bob it is called scripture, Daniel 7:25; Exodus 20:8; Revelation 14:1-12.
Trying to keep the Israelite only Sabbath is certainly a man made tradition because we are now under the new and better covenant of grace and not by trying to do the works of keeping a day that has never been given to us.
Agreed, there is no such thing as an Israelite Sabbath. Jesus says the Sabbath was made for all mankind and there were no Israelite's around when God made the Sabbath for all mankind *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3. God does however give His Sabbath to Israel which is simply a name given by God to all those who believe and follow what God's Word says (scripture here linked)
Yes indeed, we are to worship the God of creation and redemption. We don't have to wait for a special day to accomplish doing that. Our lives should be a living testimony of Him who did all of that for all mankind.
According to the scriptures Jesus says that we do not worship God by following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God in Matthew 15:3-9.

I know you are referring to all of us that worship God on Sunday. Since there is no command in the new covenant for the commemoration of any special day and we are admonished to assemble, we can choose our assembly time. Heb10: 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
According to John 10:16 and John 4:22-23 God is calling everyone of us to come out of following man-made teachings and traditions that lead us to break His commandments and back to the pure Word of God. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. According to Jesus no one worships God by breaking his commandments in Matthew 15:3-9.

Take Care Bob.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I think our posts are getting longer again, haha! To keep things short, I'm just going to reply to this, as I believe that to insist that Israel always means "those who believe and follow God's word" is the key of the disagreement. I'm surpised that you still say that this is the only definition of Israel even in these passages:

"Who gave Jacob for plunder, and Israel to the robbers? Was it not the LORD, He against whom we have sinned? For they would not walk in His ways, Nor were they obedient to His law" (Isaiah 42:24, NKJV, emphasis mine).

"And He said to me: 'Son of man, I am sending you to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that has rebelled against Me; they and their fathers have transgressed against Me to this very day'" (Ezekiel 2:3, NKJV, emphasis mine).

"But to Israel he [Isaiah] says: 'All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people'" (Romans 10:21, NKJV, emphasis mine).

Just to make sure, are you saying that the point of these passages are to say that "all those who believe and follow God's word" don't walk in God's ways? That "all those who believe and follow God's word" are "a rebellious nation"? That "all those who believe and follow God's word are "a disobedient and contrary people"?

If we become part of Israel, are we becoming part of "a rebellious nation"? If so, then what kind of nation were we in before becoming part of Israel?

Well thanks for the conversation Kilk. I have really enjoyed talking with you. I do not see there is anything else to discuss here that I can see. Your post here is simply repetition that has already been addressed in a number of detailed scripture responses (e.g post # 356 linked)and elsewhere that I believe do not support your view in relation to Israel not being all those who believe and follow what God's Word says. I pray that our friendly conversation has given you some fruitful things to pray about in your own time seeking Jesus through His Word, and hope only the best for you.

Take Care. :wave:
 
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guevaraj

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Yes, and this Sabbath rest is not the weekly Sabbath; otherwise, everyone who ever kept the Sabbath would enter this rest every week. However, Hebrews 4:8-9 makes clear that the Sabbath rest that remains is one not even Joshua obtained on earth. If "entering the rest" means "keeping the weekly Sabbath," then Joshua and those he led would have entered the rest each week. Instead, it's a rest we must be "diligent" to enter (Hebrews 4:11), the heavenly rest of Christ.
Brother, I can appreciate your logic that the Sabbath is not a weekday. However, written is the "rest" in Hebrews 3 and 4 to mean the "rest" of God in Eden on the seventh day of creation, which Joshua could have given them if they had not assumed that the Sabbath is the seventh day of the week in the Promised Land as it was in Eden. For 40 years in the desert near the Promised Land God opposed that assumption with Manna that did Joshua no good. Any other meaning given to the word "rest" is not God's message in Hebrews 3 and 4.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Edit: did you do a significant edit to this post? It looks very different from what I remember reading. ??? Or maybe I clicked on the wrong post ???

The law about mixed fabrics is not part of the ten commandments. But it is part of the law. Is it a shadow law or a universal law?

I don't have an issue with the Sabbath commandment. My question is about which laws to keep. It's not a matter of getting past the ten commandments imo. If the teaching you present won't handle every law, then I think there's a problem somewhere.

###########################
This analogy has been buzzing around in my head this morning, so maybe it will help someone if I share it:

Suppose Jane and I were told by the boss to pick all the apples off of an apple tree. And he also said that if we miss a single apple, it's just like we missed all the apples. At least that's what we think he said.

So Jane and I walk out and look up at this tree. Jane says, "It's easy, just reach out and pick an apple."

But I'm looking at this tree that's way higher than we can reach and we don't have a ladder. Maybe we could climb the trunk, but most of the branches are way too small to hold our weight.

I say, "You know, maybe we should go back and ask the boss again. Maybe we missed something."

Jane says, "What's the big deal? Look, I can easily reach another one," as she picks another apple and puts it in the basket.

After a few more apples, Jane adds, "If you're not going to take the easy ones, why would you worry about the hard ones?"

"Didn't the boss say that if you miss even one apple, it's just like we didn't pick any? We both heard that, right? We could spend all day on the low-hanging fruit and it wouldn't do us any good unless we can figure out a way to get the rest of the apples," I say.

Pondering a bit more, I say, "Maybe we didn't hear everything the boss had to say."

##############################
Can you see what I'm saying in the analogy, or do you want me to add an explanation?

Hi Leaf,

I’m pretty sure the law has been explained by @LoveGodsWord @BobRyan and myself a few times over the past year or so. All of God’s laws transferred over in the New Covenant, including the ark of the covenant, that holds God’s personally written law and is also revealed in Heaven Revelation 11:19. You can go to the book of Hebrews which discusses the New Covenant in detail. What did not change is the Ten Commandments that God personally wrote which includes the Sabbath commandment and is easily verified because it was promised by God Exodus 31:16 and we see that promise fulfilled Isaiah 66:23 for all of God’s people.

Paul tells us what matters is keeping the law of God, which includes all Ten of the commandments. 1 Cor 7:19. The Sabbath commandment is shown throughout the NT being kept by Paul and the apostles and the Sabbath was kept by our greatest example, Jesus. I don’t think you will ever have a good understanding of the laws if you don’t understand the Ten Commandments. Over last year, you have said you thought the Ten were eternal, to saying none are, now it seems to be only nine from your recent post. Hopefully this year you will have a better understanding what God personally wrote with His own finger and is now written in our hearts and minds.

God bless!
 
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Bob S

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Not really Bob. These are of course your words not God's Word that says God made the Sabbath for all mankind in Mark 2:27. When God made the Sabbath for all mankind it was made on the "seventh day" of the creation week. There was no Israel when God made the Sabbath for all mankind. According to the scriptures, the Sabbath is a memorial of creation not leaving Egypt as shown in Exodus 20:10-11. Sorry Bob, these are God's Words not mine that disagree with your words in this post that are not God's Word but simply your words unsupported by scripture.

God was addressing the Jews when he said that the Sabbath was made for mankind. Jesus did not say that the Sabbath was made for the Jew or Israel. There however was no Jew and no Israel or Moses, when God made the Sabbath for mankind only Adam and Eve who are the parents of mankind made in the image of God (see Mark 2:27; Genesis 1:26-31; Genesis 2:1-3. Context is king here.

According to the scriptures, the name "Israel" is simply a name given by God to all those who believe and follow what God's Word says and is not covenant dependent. (scripture here linked).

Sunday worship is proof and is there for all who have eyes to see.

That would be for God to judge not us (see Romans 2:1-12; Matthew 7:1-5)

Not really Bob it is called scripture, Daniel 7:25; Exodus 20:8; Revelation 14:1-12.

Agreed, there is no such thing as an Israelite Sabbath. Jesus says the Sabbath was made for all mankind and there were no Israelite's around when God made the Sabbath for all mankind *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3. God does however give His Sabbath to Israel which is simply a name given by God to all those who believe and follow what God's Word says (scripture here linked)

According to the scriptures Jesus says that we do not worship God by following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God in Matthew 15:3-9.


According to John 10:16 and John 4:22-23 God is calling everyone of us to come out of following man-made teachings and traditions that lead us to break His commandments and back to the pure Word of God. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. According to Jesus no one worships God by breaking his commandments in Matthew 15:3-9.

Take Care Bob.
When God gave the Israelites the covenant which included 613 commands, of which many were of a ritual nature, were the surrounding nations breaking all those ritual commands?

Since the following list is not mentioned in the 10 commandments, the ones that God gave exclusively to Israel, are we free to do these things?
- Pride
- Greed
- Envy
- Wrath, Fits of Rage
- Lust
- Gluttony
- Sloth
- Dishonesty, Deception
- Impurity, Debauchery
- Witchcraft, Sorcery
- Hatred, Indifference
- Jealousy
- Showing Favoritism, Prejudice and Discrimination
- Selfish Ambition, Self-Centeredness
- Withholding Remedy to Human or Animal Needs
- Drunkenness, Drug Abuse
- Fornication, Sodomy, inappropriate behavior with animals
- Discord, Dissensions, Factions
- Unbelief, Disbelief, Agnosticism, Atheism
- Etc.
and the greatest command of all not found in the 10 commandments, LOVE. Since it is the 10 commandments that are written in our hearts, according to you, will God not care and look the other way if we become drunkards, hate others, take advantage of others, greed and etc.?

Hopefully this year you will have a better understanding what God has really written on our ❤. I know for sure it is not the 10 commandments as you believe. Look around brother, Billions of God's children are living or have lived on this Earth. Wouldn't you think if the Sabbath law was written on our hearts millions would rush out to keep it? Even after your church spends millions upon millions of your hard earned dollars to spread the Israelite only Sabbath requirement the church only gleans a few and many of those soon go out the back door. So much for it being written on our hearts. What is written on our hearts is the Royal Law of Love. People all over the World know loving God and their fellow man is what brings joy and satisfaction to their souls. Amen!
 
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Leaf473

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Brother, I can appreciate your logic that the Sabbath is not a weekday. However, written is the "rest" in Hebrews 3 and 4 to mean the "rest" of God in Eden on the seventh day of creation, which Joshua could have given them if they had not assumed that the Sabbath is the seventh day of the week in the Promised Land as it was in Eden. For 40 years in the desert near the Promised Land God opposed that assumption with Manna that did Joshua no good. Any other meaning given to the word "rest" is not God's message in Hebrews 3 and 4.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Jorge, my man,

Where is Eden? If what you're saying is true, the location is critical, isn't it?

Eden: Location and Sunrise
 
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Leaf473

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Over last year, you have said you thought the Ten were eternal, to saying none are, now it seems to be only nine from your recent post.
No, that's not what I'm saying. I think what we are having there is a communication issue more than anything else.

###############

Now on to the main body of your post:
Hi Leaf,

I’m pretty sure the law has been explained by @LoveGodsWord @BobRyan and myself a few times over the past year or so. All of God’s laws transferred over in the New Covenant, including the ark of the covenant, that holds God’s personally written law and is also revealed in Heaven Revelation 11:19. You can go to the book of Hebrews which discusses the New Covenant in detail. What did not change is the Ten Commandments that God personally wrote which includes the Sabbath commandment and is easily verified because it was promised by God Exodus 31:16 and we see that promise fulfilled Isaiah 66:23 for all of God’s people.

Paul tells us what matters is keeping the law of God, which includes all Ten of the commandments. 1 Cor 7:19. The Sabbath commandment is shown throughout the NT being kept by Paul and the apostles and the Sabbath was kept by our greatest example, Jesus. I don’t think you will ever have a good understanding of the laws if you don’t understand the Ten Commandments. Over last year, you have said you thought the Ten were eternal, to saying none are, now it seems to be only nine from your recent post. Hopefully this year you will have a better understanding what God personally wrote with His own finger and is now written in our hearts and minds.

God bless!
God's laws have been described to me, but never listed.

###############
Please consider the following exchange.

Speaker One: It's very important that we keep all of God's universal laws.

Speaker Two :That sounds interesting. What are those laws?

One: Well, it's things like the ten commandments.

Two: Okay. Anything else?

One: Yes.

Two: What else?

One: I don't know.


###############
Peace be with you too, my sister!
 
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pasifika

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Hi Leaf,

I’m pretty sure the law has been explained by @LoveGodsWord @BobRyan and myself a few times over the past year or so. All of God’s laws transferred over in the New Covenant, including the ark of the covenant, that holds God’s personally written law and is also revealed in Heaven Revelation 11:19. You can go to the book of Hebrews which discusses the New Covenant in detail. What did not change is the Ten Commandments that God personally wrote which includes the Sabbath commandment and is easily verified because it was promised by God Exodus 31:16 and we see that promise fulfilled Isaiah 66:23 for all of God’s people.

Paul tells us what matters is keeping the law of God, which includes all Ten of the commandments. 1 Cor 7:19. The Sabbath commandment is shown throughout the NT being kept by Paul and the apostles and the Sabbath was kept by our greatest example, Jesus. I don’t think you will ever have a good understanding of the laws if you don’t understand the Ten Commandments. Over last year, you have said you thought the Ten were eternal, to saying none are, now it seems to be only nine from your recent post. Hopefully this year you will have a better understanding what God personally wrote with His own finger and is now written in our hearts and minds.

God bless!
The Prophets and the Apostles were the anointed Ministers of New Covenant and through the Holy Spirit we can understand their teachings. You guys taught a serious error in regards to God's law..
 
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guevaraj

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Jorge, my man, Where is Eden? If what you're saying is true, the location is critical, isn't it? Eden: Location and Sunrise
Brother, the site of Eden is proof that God is with us from the beginning! Eden falls on the true International Date Line (IDL) because God taught our first parents to count the days with the week to remember the Sabbath! The counting of days with the week spread throughout the world before anyone knew that it established God's prime meridian - the beginning of the day. Eden is where the sun rises on Earth when the Sabbath begins in the Promise Land because the days of the week are from sunrise to sunrise, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was LIGHT. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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SabbathBlessings

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No, that's not what I'm saying. I think what we are having there is a communication issue more than anything else.

###############

Now on to the main body of your post:

God's laws have been described to me, but never listed.

###############
Please consider the following exchange.

Speaker One: It's very important that we keep all of God's universal laws.

Speaker Two :That sounds interesting. What are those laws?

One: Well, it's things like the ten commandments.

Two: Okay. Anything else?

One: Yes.

Two: What else?

One: I don't know.


###############
Peace be with you too, my sister!

I guess we have very different recollections of our past conversations.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Brother, the site of Eden is proof that God is with us from the beginning! Eden falls on the true International Date Line (IDL) because God taught our first parents to count the days with the week to remember the Sabbath! The counting of days with the week spread throughout the world before anyone knew that it established God's prime meridian - the beginning of the day. Eden is where the sun rises on Earth when the Sabbath begins in the Promise Land because the days of the week are from sunrise to sunrise, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning.
None of this is a teaching from scriptures.​
 
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guevaraj

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None of this a biblical teaching.
Sister, the scholarly paper by Amanda McGuire in 2008 is wrong in its conclusion: both true together was never considered! Her paper is online at the following link: “digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3017&context=auss”. Prejudices when reading the Bible prevent the reader from seeing a greater truth! When both truths have evidence, Amanda’s paper rejects one truth for the other, saying that one truth has “weak” support, when overlooked it is that both are true because both have support. Her paper assumed that both together cannot be true when the Bible shows that both are true. The greater truth includes both examples of when the Sabbath begins. Summarized are the two truths below:
  1. The Sabbath in Eden begins at sunrise and ends at sunrise.
  2. The Sabbath in Israel begins at sundown and ends at sundown.
To choose one truth and discard the other is to take your favorite parts and discard what does not fit, when the full truth is only found when you have used the entire word of God and not just a part. What Amanda did not consider is that there is evidence from both truths and that the greater truth must fit all the evidence. I include below the part of her conclusion that I object to.

Clearly, the evidence shows that the morning theory is weak if it uses Gen 1:5 as its foundation. The rest of the biblical data is inconclusive as to when the Jewish day begins, though the texts that we have examined either support the evening theory or only weakly support the morning theory. (J. Amanda McGuire, page 214)​

Our faith is trust in what God says! The author helped by gathering all the evidence for both truths, but because she assumes that only one truth is correct and the other is incorrect, she weakens our confidence in God’s word. She used the word “weakly” to decrease the value of the support for one truth, acknowledging that there is support, but setting aside what she considers weak support for the other truth. The whole truth is found when you accept both truths together. In the following passage warned are we that people will tend to ignore the truth in favor of what they “desire”, this is how traditions remain even after God's word clearly corrects them.

In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry. (2 Timothy 4:1-5 NIV)​

When you understand that a day of the week defined by God is from morning to morning in the Bible, you learn that Jesus rose a Saturday night, before Sunday began in the morning. This removes the reason to keep the human Sunday tradition to celebrate the resurrection because Jesus rose on Saturday and not on Sunday.

Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!” (John 20:1-2 NIV)​

Judaism didn't have to reason because God gave them specific instructions to keep the Sabbath in Israel. For those who think that the beginning of the first day is more important than its end, God corrects that thought by emphasizing the end of the Sabbath and not the beginning when He begins the Sabbath the day before. God began the Sabbath of the tenth day in the ninth day: from the evening of the previous day until the evening of the Sabbath day. When you understand that the Sabbath ends as it begins, with two evenings, God's decision to begin the tenth-day-Sabbath on the ninth day puts the emphasis on the end of the first day and not the beginning of the first day.

The Lord said to Moses, “The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. Hold a sacred assembly and deny yourselves, and present a food offering to the Lord. Do not do any work on that day, because it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement is made for you before the Lord your God. Those who do not deny themselves on that day must be cut off from their people. I will destroy from among their people anyone who does any work on that day. You shall do no work at all. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live. It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:26-32 NIV)​

The first day ends in a morning, telling us that it begins in a morning when you understand that a 24-hour Sabbath ends as it begins. Why didn't God make things easier for us by writing a first day from morning to morning instead of from first light until morning? God is right in what He writes! The word morning is not used at the beginning of the first day because it happened faster than the meaning of the word morning. The first change from darkness to light was faster than the word morning, but all other days after are from morning to morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

From evening to morning, it's only half a day. The night-half that ends each day with God not having anything to report because He only creates each day of creation week during the earlier light-half from morning to evening. Each day ends with a night in which God rests from having created earlier for that day during the light-half. The evening comes in the middle of the first day and not at the beginning. The first day is from first light to light again in the morning. The reason this is not accepted is because supposed it is that a Sabbath in Israel is a day of the week as it was in Eden. The Sabbath in Israel is not a day of the week and actually falls between two days of the week in Israel. Everyone can publicly join the conversation on the forum link: “christianforums.com/threads/8210692”. Actively study the Bible letting it teach you without letting prejudices blind you, there is nothing more important than knowing the word of God written by His prophets to prepare those who will see the soon return of Jesus. Links to my book available on all major platforms are at: www.guevaraj.com.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Sister, the scholarly paper by Amanda McGuire in 2008 is wrong in its conclusion: both true together was never considered! Her paper is online at the following link: “andrews.edu/library/car/cardigital/Periodicals/AUSS/2008/2008-2/2008-2-03.pdf”. Prejudices when reading the Bible prevent the reader from seeing a greater truth! When both truths have evidence, Amanda’s paper rejects one truth for the other, saying that one truth has “weak” support, when overlooked it is that both are true because both have support. Her paper assumed that both together cannot be true when the Bible shows that both are true. The greater truth includes both examples of when the Sabbath begins. Summarized are the two truths below:
  1. The Sabbath in Eden begins at sunrise and ends at sunrise.
  2. The Sabbath in Israel begins at sundown and ends at sundown.
To choose one truth and discard the other is to take your favorite parts and discard what does not fit, when the full truth is only found when you have used the entire word of God and not just a part. What Amanda did not consider is that there is evidence from both truths and that the greater truth must fit all the evidence. I include below the part of her conclusion that I object to.

Clearly, the evidence shows that the morning theory is weak if it uses Gen 1:5 as its foundation. The rest of the biblical data is inconclusive as to when the Jewish day begins, though the texts that we have examined either support the evening theory or only weakly support the morning theory. (J. Amanda McGuire, page 214)​

Our faith is trust in what God says! The author helped by gathering all the evidence for both truths, but because she assumes that only one truth is correct and the other is incorrect, she weakens our confidence in God’s word. She used the word “weakly” to decrease the value of the support for one truth, acknowledging that there is support, but setting aside what she considers weak support for the other truth. The whole truth is found when you accept both truths together. In the following passage warned are we that people will tend to ignore the truth in favor of what they “desire”, this is how traditions remain even after God's word clearly corrects them.

In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry. (2 Timothy 4:1-5 NIV)​

When you understand that a day of the week defined by God is from morning to morning in the Bible, you learn that Jesus rose a Saturday night, before Sunday began in the morning. This removes the reason to keep the human Sunday tradition to celebrate the resurrection because Jesus rose on Saturday and not on Sunday.

Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!” (John 20:1-2 NIV)​

Judaism didn't have to reason because God gave them specific instructions to keep the Sabbath in Israel. For those who think that the beginning of the first day is more important than its end, God corrects that thought by emphasizing the end of the Sabbath and not the beginning when He begins the Sabbath the day before. God began the Sabbath of the tenth day in the ninth day: from the evening of the previous day until the evening of the Sabbath day. When you understand that the Sabbath ends as it begins, with two evenings, God's decision to begin the tenth-day-Sabbath on the ninth day puts the emphasis on the end of the first day and not the beginning of the first day.

The Lord said to Moses, “The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. Hold a sacred assembly and deny yourselves, and present a food offering to the Lord. Do not do any work on that day, because it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement is made for you before the Lord your God. Those who do not deny themselves on that day must be cut off from their people. I will destroy from among their people anyone who does any work on that day. You shall do no work at all. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live. It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:26-32 NIV)​

The first day ends in a morning, telling us that it begins in a morning when you understand that a 24-hour Sabbath ends as it begins. Why didn't God make things easier for us by writing a first day from morning to morning instead of from first light until morning? God is right in what He writes! The word morning is not used at the beginning of the first day because it happened faster than the meaning of the word morning. The first change from darkness to light was faster than the word morning, but all other days after are from morning to morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

From evening to morning, it's only half a day. The night-half that ends each day with God not having anything to report because He only creates each day of creation week during the earlier light-half from morning to evening. Each day ends with a night in which God rests from having created earlier for that day during the light-half. The evening comes in the middle of the first day and not at the beginning. The first day is from first light to light again in the morning. The reason this is not accepted is because supposed it is that a Sabbath in Israel is a day of the week as it was in Eden. The Sabbath in Israel is not a day of the week and actually falls between two days of the week in Israel. Everyone can publicly join the conversation on the forum link: “christianforums.com/threads/8210692”. Actively study the Bible letting it teach you without letting prejudices blind you, there is nothing more important than knowing the word of God written by His prophets to prepare those who will see the soon return of Jesus. Links to my book available on all major platforms are at: “www.guevaraj.com”.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

None of your commentary matches the scriptures you posted. Hopefully something you will consider praying about because we are responsible for what we teach. God bless
 
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guevaraj

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None of your commentary matches the scriptures you posted. Hopefully something you will consider praying about because we are responsible for what we teach. God bless
Sister, thank you for the blessing, may God bless you! An "evening" can only occur after the light. Before the light there was "darkness" and not an "evening", those are different words that are not interchangeable. The "evening" of the first day occurred after first light and falls in the middle of the first day. The first day in Genesis below is from morning to morning, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was LIGHT. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Bob S

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None of your commentary matches the scriptures you posted. Hopefully something you will consider praying about because we are responsible for what we teach. God bless
I am glad you recognize that fact SB because, as you know, I have pointed out some of the errors you have posted. Incidentally, I have never received a response of any kind.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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When God gave the Israelites the covenant which included 613 commands, of which many were of a ritual nature, were the surrounding nations breaking all those ritual commands?

Since the following list is not mentioned in the 10 commandments, the ones that God gave exclusively to Israel, are we free to do these things?
- Pride
- Greed
- Envy
- Wrath, Fits of Rage
- Lust
- Gluttony
- Sloth
- Dishonesty, Deception
- Impurity, Debauchery
- Witchcraft, Sorcery
- Hatred, Indifference
- Jealousy
- Showing Favoritism, Prejudice and Discrimination
- Selfish Ambition, Self-Centeredness
- Withholding Remedy to Human or Animal Needs
- Drunkenness, Drug Abuse
- Fornication, Sodomy, inappropriate behavior with animals
- Discord, Dissensions, Factions
- Unbelief, Disbelief, Agnosticism, Atheism
- Etc.
and the greatest command of all not found in the 10 commandments, LOVE. Since it is the 10 commandments that are written in our hearts, according to you, will God not care and look the other way if we become drunkards, hate others, take advantage of others, greed and etc.?

Hopefully this year you will have a better understanding what God has really written on our ❤. I know for sure it is not the 10 commandments as you believe. Look around brother, Billions of God's children are living or have lived on this Earth. Wouldn't you think if the Sabbath law was written on our hearts millions would rush out to keep it? Even after your church spends millions upon millions of your hard earned dollars to spread the Israelite only Sabbath requirement the church only gleans a few and many of those soon go out the back door. So much for it being written on our hearts. What is written on our hearts is the Royal Law of Love. People all over the World know loving God and their fellow man is what brings joy and satisfaction to their souls. Amen!
According to the scriptures, God's royal law of love is not separate from Gods' anyone of Gods' moral laws which of course include God's 10 commandments (James 2:8-12). All of God's moral laws that are our duty of love to God and our fellow man and are established by faith *Romans 3:31 in the lives of all those who have been born again by God's Spirit (John 3:3-7 and John 3:6-9; Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:4) into promise of Gods' new covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27) given to "Israel" who are all those who believe and follow what God's Word says (Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 2:28-29; Romans 2:28-29)

In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 where he says that on these two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets. That is love is not separate from obedience to God's moral laws. Jesus is saying that if we love God and our fellow man from the heart (love) we will obey Gods' laws and will not be breaking them. Paul is agreeing with Jesus here in Romans 13:8-10 when he says "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly summed up in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love works no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling (doing) of the law.

This is what James is talking about when he says in James 2:8-11 If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

John also agrees with Jesus and James when he says in 1 John 5:2-4 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.

Therefore we fulfill and obey Gods' law by faith that works by love and which leads to obeying Gods' law not by breaking God's moral laws because according to Paul love to God and man is simply summing up obedience to God's law from the heart of love (Romans 13:9). Obedience to Gods' Word is the fruit of faith *Romans 3:31 in someone who has been born again through the Spirit *Romans 8:1-4 to love God and their fellow man through faith in God's Word (Romans 3:31; 1 John 3:6). Obedience to God's law is nothing if we have not been born again by the Spirit to love God and our fellow man which is Gods' new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27) to all those who through faith believe and follow what God's Word says (Israel). This is God's promise only given to Israel who are now all those who by faith choose to believe and follow what Gods Word says. (Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:28-29).

According to the scriptures, in 1 John 3:4, James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20 and Romans 14:23, sin is defined as breaking God's law and not believing what God's Word says. According to John those who are born of God to not practice sin (breaking God's laws) *1 John 3:6-9 because sin (breaking Gods' laws) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil (see 1 John 3:9-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14). According to James if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them in James 2:10-11. Therefore according to the scriptures, no one loves God if they break Gods commandments according to the scriptures as this is the test to know if we are love God or not *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 5:2-3; 1 John 3:6-10. Something to pray about I guess. As shown through the scriptures already and in past discussions I believe the errors here are your side Bob not, at @SabbathBlessings. God's Word does not teach lawlessness (without law or that God's 10 commandments are abolished). The teachings of lawlessness go against the very words of Jesus, and the entire bible (see 1 John 2:3-4; Matthew 5:17-20).

Take Care.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I am glad you recognize that fact SB because, as you know, I have pointed out some of the errors you have posted. Incidentally, I have never received a response of any kind.
Well we both know thats not true, I have responded multiple times to you, but claiming the holy day of the Lord thy God ended when the Lord tells us its goes on forever Isaiah 66:23, not sure what more there is to discuss. I believe God when He says Remember, does not mean the opposite. God bless
 
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Brother, the site of Eden is proof that God is with us from the beginning! Eden falls on the true International Date Line (IDL) because God taught our first parents to count the days with the week to remember the Sabbath! The counting of days with the week spread throughout the world before anyone knew that it established God's prime meridian - the beginning of the day. Eden is where the sun rises on Earth when the Sabbath begins in the Promise Land because the days of the week are from sunrise to sunrise, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was LIGHT. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Sounds interesting. Please post over on this thread so we can discuss it and not be off topic here.

Eden: Location and Sunrise

Peace be with you, my brother!

####################
Edit: I also left a reply on your thread over here:

Are different Sabbaths true?

We can talk on either thread, whichever one you wish.
 
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