No aliens only angels.

ViaCrucis · Nov 26, 2021

Freedm said:
Well, this is the way I see it. Light is energy and energy is life. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:45 that we will be resurrected as "life giving spirits".

So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

I believe the angels are also spirits because they dwell in the spiritual dimension.

Now, why are they balls of energy? In John 8:12 Jesus seems to be implying that life shines like a light. "Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

He also calls himself the light, and in another passage he calls himself the way, the truth and the life. All of these things (the way, truth, life and light) appear to be synonymous or at least closely related, and so I would expect a being that is pure life (like an angel, or a resurrected person) that they would shine like a light.

Did not also Jesus and Moses both literally shine like a light after they came face to face with God, the giver of life?

Fun fact: Did you know that human beings actually also give off a small amount of light? This is because we have a small amount of energy in us, and when you consider that energy is life, we can say that we have a little bit of life in us. Imagine how much light we would give off once we are resurrected as immortal spirits, having eternal life.

There's a lot of assumptions, and a lot of ideas you're sharing here that I simply can't agree with, and for a lot of reasons.

First your statement "Light is energy, and energy is life" is, with all due respect, not really saying anything.

When New Agey types talk about "energy", scientists rightly ask, "What do you mean by 'energy'"?

See, energy is just a fancy scientific word to describe effort or work. There's kinetic energy, there's potential energy, there's heat energy, there's electro-magnetic energy.

Visible light is a form of electro-magnetic energy; behaving as wave-particles (insert super complicated quantum mechanics here that is way outside my knowledge base).

That's not life. That's just light being light.

Besides visible light, we also speak of light in metaphorical language, Scripture does that, that's what it means when Jesus and His Church are called (and called to be) "the light of the world". It's the use of light as metaphor or simile.

Additionally we can speak of what the Church historically calls "the Uncreated Light of God". A reference to something quite incomprehensible; it's the light of the Transfiguration on Mt. Tabor, it's what is identified as the "unapproachable light" which Paul speaks of when he says that God "dwells in unapproachable light". It's the light of His Divine Glory. It's not light as we ordinarily mean light. It is the incomprehensible brilliance of the Divine Glory. It is called the "Uncreated Light" because we are not dealing with photons in material space-time; we are dealing with God and the incomprehensible and ineffable glory of God.

Furthermore, in the resurrection we do not become "spirits". Yes, the Apostle says that the first man became a living soul and the Second Man became a "life-giving spirit". That does not mean Adam, or Jesus, or any of us, aren't fully-bodied human beings both now and also in the resurrection. In the resurrection we are raised bodily from the dead, our bodies transformed from soulishness (soma psuchekos) to the Spiritual (soma pneumatikos). As according to St. Paul in Romans 8:11 that in the same way that God raised up Jesus from the dead bodily, so is God going to raise us up bodily by the power of the Holy Spirit. Thus the "spiritual body" simply means that the body is made alive by the quickening power of the Holy Spirit.

This is why it is said that the first man became a living soul (and we are presently soulish), and the Second Man a "life-giving spirit". We bear the image of the first man, Adam, in whom we have sin and death and the disordered passions or lusts of the flesh; but in Christ we have a new humanity, and will finally and fully bear the image of the Second Man, the New Man, the New Adam Jesus Christ; who is alive in the body victorious over the powers of death, and who is alive forever in a body immortal and imperishable. So, likewise, we shall bear the immortal and imperishable flesh of the Son of God.

Yes, angels are spirits. Which is why I believe I am confident that the work of God's angels "behind the scenes" as it were, remains unseen. We are, indeed, told that when we entertain strangers we may be entertaining angels unaware--I think that's amazing. But that doesn't mean every time someone talks to me that I immediately assume this person isn't a regular human being but, actually, an angel. And Scripture actually explicitly tells us that we may be interacting with angels without being aware of it.

So if even with the explicit word of Scripture I shouldn't just assume that "This is an angel"; how much more than, in the total silence of the Scriptures, should I assume that an unidentifiable visible something must be an angel, or worse, a demon?

-CryptoLutheran

Walk together · Nov 26, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
I've no doubt that the devil is a deceiver, the Scriptures say he masquerades as an angel of light--he lies, he deceives, he pretends.

I believe in applying a naturalistic methodology to observable phenomenon. If I see something with my own two eyes, the assumption I make is that there is a rational, natural explanation. Even if I don't know what the explanation is. Because not understanding something about the universe is okay, there is far more about the natural, observable, material universe that we don't know than that we know.

To regard something as a phenomenon beyond natural explanation--and therefore "super-natural"--demands more than observation. The resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ was something extraordinary. Human beings do not, as a rule, just stop being dead; and yet Jesus stopped being dead. His bodily flesh was glorified, He became the first-fruits of the resurrection--the signpost, the vindication, of the victory of God over death which shall be the goal of God's work and purpose for all creation. The dead will rise, and God will make all things new: New Heavens and New Earth. Such cannot be known by observation, reason, or speculation--but only by vivid, explicit revelation of God which is received entirely by faith.

God continues to give us signs and seals of these promises, that is why the Gospel is preached, that is why Christ instituted the Sacraments--that through Baptism and the Lord's Supper and the hearing of the word we are continually having faith given and worked in us by God; not only bring the objective reality of the past (of Christ's perfect and finished work on the Cross and His Glorious Resurrection from the dead) but how that is our reality now, by faith, and the reality that is to come. And so we trust and receive the word that is preached, we recognize that Baptism isn't merely water getting us wet, but water connected to God's word, with His promises attached: so that the one who is baptized is not merely getting wet, but is in fact dead, buried, and raised up together with Christ; having "put on Christ" (see Galatians 3:27); and by the same token in the Lord's Supper we do not receive some ordinary meal of food to satisfy our bodily appetites, but is--in some way and somehow--the very body and blood of Jesus Christ, broken and shed for us.

I go on this tangent only to make clear that my issue is not with the "supernatural"; but rather that we should recognize that God made this world, and ordered it; what we observe in nature has natural explanation because this is consistent with the natural order of God's creation. This does not negate that there are extraordinary things, things that are in fact outside of the ordinary, observable, material universe--but such things cannot be known by observation, but only by revelation.

I accept the existence of the devils/demons because Scripture clearly asserts their existence, and Christ Himself speaks of them, casting them out of their victims; and we see the Apostles of our Lord doing the same. And the Church has always recognized that presence and existence of demons--and that part of the Church's ministry in the world is the rebuking and renunciation of these false and hostile powers.

To bridge the gap between "I saw something in the sky, and I don't know what it was" to "Oh, it's probably a demon" is immense. And, I'd argue is closer to superstition than anything else--it is closer to those who attribute missing household items to fairies or other household spirits, or to thinking that there are witches with demonic powers who made a contract with the devil out hiding in the woods waiting to eat children. In other words, this is a Pagan way of thinking, not a Christian way thinking.

It was Pagans, not Christians, who believed in and hunted witches; in fact part of the missionizing efforts of the Church in the middle ages was to dispel such superstition among converts from Paganism. After Charlemagne conquered Saxony and implemented a program of converting the Saxons, one of the things Charlemagne did was outlaw witch-hunting among the Pagan Saxons, making it punishable by death (because, you know, murder).

In the middle ages the Church actively fought against superstition involving witches and magic, teaching that magic is false, and that so-called "witches" have merely been deceived by the devil into thinking they are seeing and experiencing things. One ancient Church document of not entirely known origin is the Canon Episcopi, which pretty explicitly says that every effort must be made to instill in the Faithful a rejection of superstition, and to regard those who believe in witches and their supposed "power" as holding to "heathen" beliefs and ascribing to heretical and blasphemous teachings (ascribing divine-like power to anything other than God). The Canon Episcopi also mentions a prevailing notion of supposed "witches" who experienced night-time visions and were taken on night-time rides with the goddess Diana as nothing more than devilish lies and deception--no such thing actually happens, and those who think that it has happened have been deceived by the devil.

Ergo, it seems appropriate for me to take my present course of action and thought; to ward off false spirituality: i.e. superstition or what the ancient Church called deisidaimonia, the false reverence or fear of the [at least supposedly] supernatural.

God, and God alone, is worthy of awe and reverent fear.

I do not intend to make offense with any of this--but it may be helpful to understand where I'm coming from here, and why.

-CryptoLutheran

Thank you for your in depth belief that you have shared and I have all the respect for what you have stated. The problem is that at one time in my life I believed that we were being visited by ET so I was all wrapped up with this notion until I had an experience with an object that appeared above me one night. This event had a very profound effect on me and I was left to decide is this what God wants or was I being deceived. Well, I came to my senses and changed my view on ET's and realised that I was just playing into the devil's plan. The devil was aware of my fascination for the UFO phenomenon and I am quite sure that he decided to use that to distract my attention away from the truth and God. Now that my heart is set for God and I no longer believe in ET/UFO's I feel a great relief as all the devil has achieved is to show me that he is very real and that in itself confirms that so to God is very real. What I experienced was also very very real. I understand that what I have described is rather controversial to anyone that has not had such an experience but the mutual belief for us is God and his son Jesus at the end of the day that is all that truly matters. Love God and keep the door shut on the devil.

ViaCrucis · Nov 26, 2021

Walk together said:
Thank you for your in depth belief that you have shared and I have all the respect for what you have stated. The problem is that at one time in my life I believed that we were being visited by ET so I was all wrapped up with this notion until I had an experience with an object that appeared above me one night. This event had a very profound effect on me and I was left to decide is this what God wants or was I being deceived. Well, I came to my senses and changed my view on ET's and realised that I was just playing into the devil's plan. The devil was aware of my fascination for the UFO phenomenon and I am quite sure that he decided to use that to distract my attention away from the truth and God. Now that my heart is set for God and I no longer believe in ET/UFO's I feel a great relief as all the devil has achieved is to show me that he is very real and that in itself confirms that so to God is very real. What I experienced was also very very real. I understand that what I have described is rather controversial to anyone that has not had such an experience but the mutual belief for us is God and his son Jesus at the end of the day that is all that truly matters. Love God and keep the door shut on the devil.

While I don't see why the possible existence for ETs should be problematic--if true--I can sympathize here. I sympathize with the experience of dread, the natural impulse of the fear of the uknown, and the kinds of inner turmoil that can bear in our minds and conscience.

I've never believed that we've been visited by extra-terrestrial aliens. So I can't fully relate to that. But I certainly have had my fair share of existential turmoil and dread related to many different things. But for me a lot of that stemmed from certain factors of my childhood experiences, and unfortunately a lot of things that were caused by bad theology and toxic religious environments.

In my experience it seems prudent to withhold judgment on a lot of things. This is one of those things that I think we withholding judgment and simply acccepting some things as unknown is good.

There either is extraterrestrial life, or there isn't.

Presently we lack any data, any information, to back up either conclusion. I believe we can confidently say that aliens haven't visited earth; but whether or not there are intelligent material creatures out there in the universe is a question that simply can't be answered yes or no.

I guess from where I'm sitting, it just seems to me that you've switched from one extreme to another. That you were obsessed and worried about the existence of ETs (which isn't good nor healthy) to convincing yourself that unexplained phenomena is diabolical (which isn't better nor any more healthy IMO).

Hence, again, my position here: Unexplained phenomena is simply unexplained. To say "It was aliens" or to say "It was demons" are two sides of the same coin. We shouldn't adopt either approach. We should, instead, simply reserve judgment, and allow something unexplainable to be unexplainable.

That's difficult, the human brain naturally fights against this because our brains are designed to seek answers, to find patterns. And it's because of the natural cognitive bias of human beings to seek answers and meaning behind patterns, we are very frequently fooled by our own intelligence into reaching false conclusions about even our own perceptions and experiences.

This is what makes Conspiracy Theories so attractive, and also so dangerous.

The thing I am really trying to communicate is: We do not need to fear the unknown, we do not need to fear, we have Christ as our Savior, we have a God who loves us, and we have the promise and hope of eternal life--the machinations of man or devil in this world are ultimately nothing, and will end up nothing.

It's like the hymn says,

"Because He lives, I can face tomorrow.
Because He lives, all fear is gone.
Because I know, I know He holds the future,
And life is worth the living because He lives."

-CryptoLutheran

Freedm · Nov 26, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
First your statement "Light is energy, and energy is life" is, with all due respect, not really saying anything.

When New Agey types talk about "energy", scientists rightly ask, "What do you mean by 'energy'"?

See, energy is just a fancy scientific word to describe effort or work. There's kinetic energy, there's potential energy, there's heat energy, there's electro-magnetic energy.

I'm no scientist either but I mean electro-magnetic energy.

That's not life. That's just light being light.

Are you sure about that? The only thing we really know for sure is that we don't understand how the universe works. Which means all explanations are possible. God breathed life into Adam and Adam became a living creature. So what is the breath of God? We can't answer that but what if it's electro-magnetic energy? It's possible.

Point being that we know so very little about the way things work, that we can't write off a theory just because it hasn't been proven. We still don't know why twelve is God's favourite number and just a few years ago we didn't know radiation was being emitted from the earth. And we didn't know that the universe was in the shape of a dodecahedron. And we didn't know that teleportation was possible. And we didn't know that entangled particles are not communicating, but are actually the same particle. What? Mind blown.

Besides visible light, we also speak of light in metaphorical language, Scripture does that, that's what it means when Jesus and His Church are called (and called to be) "the light of the world". It's the use of light as metaphor or simile.

Yes, we do speak of light metaphorically, but more and more I'm starting to believe that even in those cases there is a double meaning.

Additionally we can speak of what the Church historically calls "the Uncreated Light of God". A reference to something quite incomprehensible; it's the light of the Transfiguration on Mt. Tabor, it's what is identified as the "unapproachable light" which Paul speaks of when he says that God "dwells in unapproachable light". It's the light of His Divine Glory. It's not light as we ordinarily mean light. It is the incomprehensible brilliance of the Divine Glory. It is called the "Uncreated Light" because we are not dealing with photons in material space-time; we are dealing with God and the incomprehensible and ineffable glory of God.

Great reference! So if this unapproachable light is not like normal light, but it's still a real thing, and presumably powerful, then it would make a lot of sense for Jesus to be a form of that light for this world. What makes this light special? If we can understand that, then maybe we can understand why Jesus called himself the light of the world.

Furthermore, in the resurrection we do not become "spirits". Yes, the Apostle says that the first man became a living soul and the Second Man became a "life-giving spirit". That does not mean Adam, or Jesus, or any of us, aren't fully-bodied human beings both now and also in the resurrection. In the resurrection we are raised bodily from the dead, our bodies transformed from soulishness (soma psuchekos) to the Spiritual (soma pneumatikos). As according to St. Paul in Romans 8:11 that in the same way that God raised up Jesus from the dead bodily, so is God going to raise us up bodily by the power of the Holy Spirit. Thus the "spiritual body" simply means that the body is made alive by the quickening power of the Holy Spirit.

I don't think Romans 8:11 is saying what you think it's saying. It's just saying that God will give us life after death. It doesn't say that our resurrected bodies will be physical.

This is why it is said that the first man became a living soul (and we are presently soulish), and the Second Man a "life-giving spirit".

Again, I think you misunderstand. What Genesis 2:7 is saying is that God breathed life into the man who was formed from the dust of the ground, and that turned him into a soul. We do not have souls. A soul is literally just a living creature, just like any animal on the earth or in the sky or in the sea. Any creature that has the breath of life is a soul.

So if even with the explicit word of Scripture I shouldn't just assume that "This is an angel"; how much more than, in the total silence of the Scriptures, should I assume that an unidentifiable visible something must be an angel, or worse, a demon?

I don't think your logic is sound here. Just because we may not recognise angels when they come visit us, does not preclude the possibility of being able to see angels in their natural form. And you may not have any reason to believe that angels manifest as balls of light, but because we can't explain either angels or the balls of light, we also can't be sure that they aren't the same thing. Anything is possible, but at this point it's just an interesting theory.

Davy · Nov 26, 2021

So many brethren are so wrapped up in their carnal thinking, mostly because of watching too much TV and Hollywood movies, and listening to atheistic science, that they cannot understand God's Word when speaking of the other dimension of existence where God and the angels dwell.

Truly, like Lord Jesus said, their ears are dull of hearing, their spiritual eyes they have closed, and their hearts are waxed gross (Matthew 13).

Hebrews 13:2 says for us to be mindful to entertain strangers, because some have entertained angels and didn't know it.

So why couldn't these objects that people are seeing today, that apparently are on the increase in this century, be objects from that other dimension, whether good angels or bad angels?

Evidently not many have paid attention to what Lord Jesus revealed in Revelation 12:7 forward about Satan and his angels being booted out of the heavenly dimension, down to this earth, for the end of this world...

Rev 12:7-10
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
KJV

Rev 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV

That above Scripture did not happen in the past friends. It's still in our near future, and is what will cause the "great tribulation" Lord Jesus foretold us about. And that Scripture is very literal, not philosophical or just symbolic. (see my next post...).

Davy · Nov 26, 2021

Why can the Revelation 12:7 forward Scripture not... be symbolic only? or of the time when Satan first rebelled against God?

It is because the two different dimensions, this earthly one, and the heavenly one hidden behind a veil, are REAL. The heavenly dimension is just as REAL as this earthly one we are in. Likewise, Satan and his angels are just as REAL.

The whole matter of God bringing this present world sending His Son to die on the cross to save those who believe was because of what Satan... did in that old world, when Satan coveted God's Throne, wanting to be GOD. I don't hear much of that Truth preached today, yet that is what this whole end time matter is about.

Satan and his angels are coming to 'our' earthly dimension. That... is what that Revelation 12:7 forward Scripture is about. Just as angels are able to appear with the image of men here on earth in our direct presence per God's Word, likewise Satan and his angels are going to appear with the image of man right here on earth also, as soon as that war in heaven takes place and their place in heaven is no more found.

Lord Jesus even went to a whole lot of effort to reveal this to those who would listen to Him, which is what the whole subject of the false one coming per Revelation and per His Olivet discourse is about. Jesus even showed us the old beast kingdom of ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns was a system that Satan originally rebelled against God with, drawing a third of the angels to earth with him in that time of old (Revelation 12:3-4). The beast kingdom for the end in Revelation 13 is to have "ten crowns", showing that it will be just a little different than what he originally rebelled with.

Walk together · Nov 26, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
While I don't see why the possible existence for ETs should be problematic--if true--I can sympathize here. I sympathize with the experience of dread, the natural impulse of the fear of the uknown, and the kinds of inner turmoil that can bear in our minds and conscience.

I've never believed that we've been visited by extra-terrestrial aliens. So I can't fully relate to that. But I certainly have had my fair share of existential turmoil and dread related to many different things. But for me a lot of that stemmed from certain factors of my childhood experiences, and unfortunately a lot of things that were caused by bad theology and toxic religious environments.

In my experience it seems prudent to withhold judgment on a lot of things. This is one of those things that I think we withholding judgment and simply acccepting some things as unknown is good.

There either is extraterrestrial life, or there isn't.

Presently we lack any data, any information, to back up either conclusion. I believe we can confidently say that aliens haven't visited earth; but whether or not there are intelligent material creatures out there in the universe is a question that simply can't be answered yes or no.

I guess from where I'm sitting, it just seems to me that you've switched from one extreme to another. That you were obsessed and worried about the existence of ETs (which isn't good nor healthy) to convincing yourself that unexplained phenomena is diabolical (which isn't better nor any more healthy IMO).

Hence, again, my position here: Unexplained phenomena is simply unexplained. To say "It was aliens" or to say "It was demons" are two sides of the same coin. We shouldn't adopt either approach. We should, instead, simply reserve judgment, and allow something unexplainable to be unexplainable.

That's difficult, the human brain naturally fights against this because our brains are designed to seek answers, to find patterns. And it's because of the natural cognitive bias of human beings to seek answers and meaning behind patterns, we are very frequently fooled by our own intelligence into reaching false conclusions about even our own perceptions and experiences.

This is what makes Conspiracy Theories so attractive, and also so dangerous.

The thing I am really trying to communicate is: We do not need to fear the unknown, we do not need to fear, we have Christ as our Savior, we have a God who loves us, and we have the promise and hope of eternal life--the machinations of man or devil in this world are ultimately nothing, and will end up nothing.

It's like the hymn says,

"Because He lives, I can face tomorrow.
Because He lives, all fear is gone.
Because I know, I know He holds the future,
And life is worth the living because He lives."

-CryptoLutheran

I believe that what you are saying is very true and from sound knowledge. The full power in us comes from the promise of God and a true believer has nothing to fear. As you have said if deception is near we can turn our back on it as it will not live for long it will dissolve into the past when Jesus is seen in the clouds. There are many distractions in the world that can take our attention away from what is truly important. All that sustains us and allows us to live and learn is a gift and we must be eternally grateful to the giver of all good things our heavenly father and son. When we are confronted with people that have bad intentions or when we find ourselves in a bad situation we can rest assured that God is near and ready to defend his children that are loyal to him God sees the road ahead, the road that we will travel so he can determine the necessary interactions with us based on the heart at the end of that road.

Walk together · Nov 26, 2021

The bible speaks of many supernatural events that took place before and during the time of Jesus on the earth. I believe that all that was experienced and documented in the holy scriptures were for our benefit now. Today not so many supernatural events take place for the time of seeing is very far and few between and that is due to God wanting us through our hearts, not our eyes. It is our heart that faith is delivered and it is our hearts that God reads the bible is for us it lives for us and it is the gate and the fountain of faith. It is a supernatural miracle from God that we have the holy scriptures to this day it is by no chance that this book made it this far without Gods intervention. The bible is Gods will and he wants us to have it. If the devil had a bible to share it would be a book of death and the devil would take great delight in us receiving it. Be not deceived.

Walk together · Nov 26, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
If you understand what the word daemon referred to in Greek, and its borrowing to speak of evil spirits in Judaism (and consequently Christianity), then this statement by St. Paul makes sense.

Namely, daemons were often conceived as numinous beings that inhabited the space between heaven and earth. In Greek mythology and folklore a daemon was any generic semi-divine or divine entity. It isn't until Judaism borrowed the term to talk about specifically evil spirits that it became synonymous with evil spirit or fallen angels.

It does not mean that Satan and his minions drive space cars in the atmosphere.

-CryptoLutheran

You misunderstand the demands/fallen angels can take on many forms an animal a light or even appear as a solid craft ether way they are still demonic.

ViaCrucis · Nov 26, 2021

Walk together said:
You misunderstand the demands/fallen angels can take on many forms an animal a light or even appear as a solid craft ether way they are still demonic.

Sure, I don't take issue with that.

The question instead is: If I see an animal, a light, or a solid craft, do I have any reason to assume it's a demon; as opposed to some other far more natural explanation.

I don't ordinarily see dogs or cats on the street and assume they are demons. If I hear a strange sound in the woods at night, I might not be able to recognize what it is, but it'd be weird to assume it's demonic; when it's far more likely to be anything from an animal I don't recognize, to some creaky tree off in the distance under the wind, or just a couple of people somewhere making weird noises.

I'm not saying "Oh, the devil couldn't possibly try to fool someone by looking like a UFO", as though it were entirely outside the realm of possibility.

I'm saying why say "It's demons" instead of "I just don't know"? If I don't know, I don't know. Unless I know it's a demon, why would I say it is? And how could I possibly know it?

I don't think "Well, it's possible" is good enough to make a positive assertion.

-CryptoLutheran

Bible Highlighter · Nov 26, 2021

My experience as a Christian has showed me a few things in that alien encounters are actually demonic.

#1. Brimstone.
#2. Owls.
#3. Testimonies by believers.

#1. I remember watching a show once on alien abductions and encounters and I remember how one encounter by a person experienced the smell of brimstone. I also recalled reading a book once a long while before this on how people who experienced ghost encounters could also testify to smelling brimstone, as well. Fire and brimstone is associated with hellfire (i.e. hell). Coincidence?

#2. I recall a pastor talking about how owls in the Bible can sometimes (not always) refer to demons. He said that the eyes of the grey aliens look similar to owls. At the time, I remember thinking to myself of how the pastor was a little crazy for even mentioning something like this. Then a couple of months later I seen the trailer for a film called, “the Fourth Kind.” Please understand that I am not suggesting you to see this trailer or the movie by any means. For the trailer is disturbing to say the least. But the point here is that the trailer was showing a person in a cabin being possessed by aliens and outside the cabin were these owls. The owls suddenly morphed their face into that of the grey aliens with the black almond shaped eyes. Again, coincidence?

#3. I have heard reports by Christians that those who dabble in the occult can are more likely to experience alien encounters or abductions. But what is interesting is that Christians who have encountered these aliens were able to cast them out in the name of Jesus. Now if they are truly aliens, then why would they flee at the name of Jesus?

Bible Highlighter · Nov 26, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
Sure, I don't take issue with that.

The question instead is: If I see an animal, a light, or a solid craft, do I have any reason to assume it's a demon; as opposed to some other far more natural explanation.

I don't ordinarily see dogs or cats on the street and assume they are demons. If I hear a strange sound in the woods at night, I might not be able to recognize what it is, but it'd be weird to assume it's demonic; when it's far more likely to be anything from an animal I don't recognize, to some creaky tree off in the distance under the wind, or just a couple of people somewhere making weird noises.

I'm not saying "Oh, the devil couldn't possibly try to fool someone by looking like a UFO", as though it were entirely outside the realm of possibility.

I'm saying why say "It's demons" instead of "I just don't know"? If I don't know, I don't know. Unless I know it's a demon, why would I say it is? And how could I possibly know it?

I don't think "Well, it's possible" is good enough to make a positive assertion.

-CryptoLutheran

I just think God has not revealed this truth to you, or you have not done the study to truly find out that aliens are in fact demons. I was skeptical of hearing this when I was new in the faith back in 1992, but I have matured and grown since that time and I was able to seek out any findings on this matter.

As for calling a alien spaceship a demon: Well, I think it is more an illusion by a demon and not a demon itself. But God only knows for sure. But yes. All alien activity is demonic. No question about it.

Walk together · Nov 26, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
Sure, I don't take issue with that.

The question instead is: If I see an animal, a light, or a solid craft, do I have any reason to assume it's a demon; as opposed to some other far more natural explanation.

I don't ordinarily see dogs or cats on the street and assume they are demons. If I hear a strange sound in the woods at night, I might not be able to recognize what it is, but it'd be weird to assume it's demonic; when it's far more likely to be anything from an animal I don't recognize, to some creaky tree off in the distance under the wind, or just a couple of people somewhere making weird noises.

I'm not saying "Oh, the devil couldn't possibly try to fool someone by looking like a UFO", as though it were entirely outside the realm of possibility.

I'm saying why say "It's demons" instead of "I just don't know"? If I don't know, I don't know. Unless I know it's a demon, why would I say it is? And how could I possibly know it?

I don't think "Well, it's possible" is good enough to make a positive assertion.

-CryptoLutheran

Yes I see what you are saying but I refuse to situations that are by far more obvious to the experiencer like the cat was in the room and now it's gone and there was no door or window open or the sound that was heard in the forest was accompanied by a very large man like figure only far too big to be a man and in my case, a structure above me as big as a house making no sound about 100 feet above me it had two rows of lights and I felt like I was being paralysed as I moved back to the house I don't know if it was shock making me feel like that or if the craft was doing something to make me feel that way. I to have been very dubious regarding things that others have claimed but I am very open minded now as I to have experienced many strange things that I to find very hard to explain but are by far no normal occurrence.

Walk together · Nov 26, 2021

I should add anyone who has great faith in God and is a true believer that has not experienced something that is what seems out of this world is very blessed to have such a strong connection with God. It seems that God sees fit to allow some of us to experience something from out of the ordinary perhaps to help us realise the true nature of his kingdom just a little nudge in the right direction. I believe that if one comes to terms with the reality of the devil then it is not very hard to find the true God. The truth is found in good and evil as it is said God can turn hardships into triumph.

Walk together · Nov 26, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
My experience as a Christian has showed me a few things in that alien encounters are actually demonic.

#1. Brimstone.
#2. Owls.
#3. Testimonies by believers.

#1. I remember watching a show once on alien abductions and encounters and I remember how one encounter by a person experienced the smell of brimstone. I also recalled reading a book once a long while before this on how people who experienced ghost encounters could also testify to smelling brimstone, as well. Fire and brimstone is associated with hellfire (i.e. hell). Coincidence?

#2. I recall a pastor talking about how owls in the Bible can sometimes (not always) refer to demons. He said that the eyes of the grey aliens look similar to owls. At the time, I remember thinking to myself of how the pastor was a little crazy for even mentioning something like this. Then a couple of months later I seen the trailer for a film called, “the Fourth Kind.” Please understand that I am not suggesting you to see this trailer or the movie by any means. For the trailer is disturbing to say the least. But the point here is that the trailer was showing a person in a cabin being possessed by aliens and outside the cabin were these owls. The owls suddenly morphed their face into that of the grey aliens with the black almond shaped eyes. Again, coincidence?

#3. I have heard reports by Christians that those who dabble in the occult can are more likely to experience alien encounters or abductions. But what is interesting is that Christians who have encountered these aliens were able to cast them out in the name of Jesus. Now if they are truly aliens, then why would they flee at the name of Jesus?

Very well said I wish everyone could come to terms with what we know but then again they may not need to as they are close to God and can skip the chapter in life that we have encountered or come to terms with. God bless.

Jipsah · Nov 26, 2021

Davy said:
So why couldn't these objects that people are seeing today, that apparently are on the increase in this century, be objects from that other dimension, whether good angels or bad angels?

Then again, why should we believe that any flying thing we see is an angel, either good or bad? By far and away, most "UFO" reports that are investigated turn out to be altogether prosaic stuff; most of them boring old airplanes. A relative few remain unidentified, which means precisely what it says. Odds are that most of those sitings are equally as borinfg there's just not enough data to say for sure. To say either "it was an alien!" or "it was an angel.demon!" is simply goofy. That'sa simpkly saying "if I can't recognize it then it's an angel or demon", which is simply silly. All an inability to identify something is either a lack of data, a lack of knowledge of the data one has, or both. Making arbitrary assumptions on that basis is, again, goofy.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 26, 2021

Walk together said:
Very well said I wish everyone could come to terms with what we know but then again they may not need to as they are close to God and can skip the chapter in life that we have encountered or come to terms with. God bless.

I believe those who are close to God will obey His Word (1 John 2:3-4). But I believe before we can obey, we sometimes have to listen to what God wants to tell us. Granted, that does not mean there are believers who may be an exception to the rule on this, but I think God desires His people to be truth seekers. For the Bereans were more noble because the searched the Scriptures to see whether those things be so or not. It’s not that knowing what we know on this topic makes us more loving, but it is merely one link of the chain of truths that God desires us to know so as not to be deceived by the alien deception (put forth by the devil), or to help others to not be deceived by it. For people have made an entire religion on UFO and alien encounters. Some believers may write this kind of thing off as silly, but those who truly did the study and searched these matters out like a good Berean know better.

Davy · Nov 26, 2021

No such things as UFO aliens. And those who believe and heed God's Word know better than to think aliens exist.

But those who believe and heed God's Word also know that there is another dimension of existence besides... this earthly one we live in, and that other dimension called Heaven... is where God and the angels dwell right now, including the abode of the wicked called hell which Satan is over.

It is only those with an atheistic bent that choose to reject the existence of that other dimension, and the possibility that actual 'unexplained' objects by competent researchers could be of that other dimension appearing in and out of our own dimension. Lord Jesus did this very thing, miraculously appeared and disappeared in full view of His disciples, except He didn't need a spaceship to do it with.

Walk together · Nov 27, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
I believe those who are close to God will obey His Word (1 John 2:3-4). But I believe before we can obey, we sometimes have to listen to what God wants to tell us. Granted, that does not mean there are believers who may be an exception to the rule on this, but I think God desires His people to be truth seekers. For the Bereans were more noble because the searched the Scriptures to see whether those things be so or not. It’s not that knowing what we know on this topic makes us more loving, but it is merely one link of the chain of truths that God desires us to know so as not to be deceived by the alien deception (put forth by the devil), or to help others to not be deceived by it. For people have made an entire religion on UFO and alien encounters. Some believers may write this kind of thing off as silly, but those who truly did the study and searched these matters out like a good Berean know better.

Thats true you make a good point we should share the truth as you say there are people worshipping this rubbish thanks for opening my eyes to that I think laziness court me out that time but I am happy to share what I believe. The devil thought he was tricking me over the years but it has backfired on him as I am a wakeup to his foul game.

Walk together · Nov 27, 2021

Davy said:
No such things as UFO aliens. And those who believe and heed God's Word know better than to think aliens exist.

But those who believe and heed God's Word also know that there is another dimension of existence besides... this earthly one we live in, and that other dimension called Heaven... is where God and the angels dwell right now, including the abode of the wicked called hell which Satan is over.

It is only those with an atheistic bent that choose to reject the existence of that other dimension, and the possibility that actual 'unexplained' objects by competent researchers could be of that other dimension appearing in and out of our own dimension. Lord Jesus did this very thing, miraculously appeared and disappeared in full view of His disciples, except He didn't need a spaceship to do it with.

Every time I hear that someone has had a fascinating sighting I chuckle to myself The only problem telling people the truth is that they often think of you as a religious freak Which I wear as a badge of honour anyway.

No aliens only angels.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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