The light travel time problem

TedT said:

If we apply what we know of physical light to Gen 1:3 and following verses we get mired pretty fast...so I suggest we understand it as allusions to something else.

Genesis 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.

WoW - light with no darkness... IF this light is the visible light our eyes can see, then by making it, it creates its own darkness...How can light be not separated from darkness or how can it be so separated if it wasn't already separated by its creation? Can this really apply to visible light? Doesn't sound like light we know, does it?

So, was GOD doing tricks with visible light or does this point to something else?

1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
Does "GOD is light" refer to a visible glow or shine like a star or sun? This is weird stuff right? Does “Let there be light,” mean HE self created HIMself? Well of course not, so light is a characteristic of GOD, a divine attribute:

1 John 1:5 And this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you: God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
That God is light - Light, in the Scriptures, is the emblem of purity, truth, knowledge, prosperity, and happiness - as darkness is of the opposite. John here says that "God is light" - φῶς phōs - not the light, or a light, but light itself; that is, he is himself all light, and is the source and fountain of light in all worlds. He is perfectly pure, without any admixture of sin. He has all knowledge, with no admixture of ignorance on any subject. He is infinitely happy, with nothing to make him miserable. He is infinitely true, never stating or countenancing error; he is blessed in all his ways, never knowing the darkness of disappointment and adversity.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
...that is, as light is opposed to the darkness of sin; he is pure and holy in his nature and works, and of such pure eyes as not to behold iniquity; and so perfectly holy, that angels cover their times before him, when they speak of his holiness:

Vincent's Word Studies
God is Light (Θεὸς φῶς ἐστὶν)
A statement of the absolute nature of God. Not a light, nor the light, with reference to created beings, as the light of men, the light of the world, but simply and absolutely God is light, in His very nature. Compare God is spirit, and see on John 4:24 : God is love, 1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16. The expression is not a metaphor. "All that we are accustomed to term light in the domain of the creature, whether with a physical or metaphysical meaning, is only an effluence of that one and only primitive Light which appears in the nature of God" (Ebrard). Light is immaterial, diffusive, pure, and glorious. It is the condition of life.

People's New Testament
John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him. The message heard from Christ, now declared, is that God is light. The source whence all light, whether it be physical, or moral, or spiritual, comes ; the Enlightener of the universe. The term denotes luminous clearness, the free and benevolent source from whence flow light, intelligence, purity and blessing, absolutely free from alien intermixture, since in him there is no darkness at all. Light represents truth, knowledge and holiness. Darkness represents ignorance, error, falsehood and sin.

In terms used by the Scripture to define LIGHT in other places, this would mean that GOD created goodness and separated it from evil…

LIGHT IS FAITH:
LIGHT is the moral attribute of goodness, a life by faith unto righteousness while darkness is evil, rejecting GOD by faith unto death. And in Gen 1:4 GOD separated between them: Genesis 1:4 God saw that the light was good, and HE separated the light from the darkness.

This suggests that ALL people created in HIS image already existed by the end of verse 2 or between the verses and speaks to the free will decision that was the separation between all those who accepted YHWH as their GOD (becoming HIS elect) and those who rejected HIM as a liar and a false god, becoming condemned at this time.

So might not Genesis 1:3 read: And God said, “Let there be light,” [ie faith unto righteousness] and there was light [faith]. 4 God saw that the light [faith] was good, and he separated the light from the darkness [evil, rejecters, antagonists to HIS will].

FAITH BY FREE WILL:
Pre-conception existence theology contends that HE did this by asking for our true free will decisions to either accept HIS purpose for our creation or by rejecting that purpose because we thought HE was a false god, unable to fulfill his warnings of the consequences, and we did not have to bow to anyone. The separation was finalized by the election of the sons of light to HIS eternal church while He left the dark to their chosen perdition.

To ensure that none of HIS newly elected church would be destroyed by sin, HE gave us all the gospel promise that if any of HIS elect should rebel against HIS will and chose to become evil in HIS sight that though that would put them outside of HIS will, it would not put them outside of HIS grace nor love and that HE would always do what was necessary to bring them back to HIM in accord with their first true free will decision.

Click to expand...

d taylor said:

Why are you believing science over the Bible. that is believing that there is an outer space where stars are suppose to be trillions + light years away.

If you believe that you will be confused about the creation God created and that is recorded in the Bible.

Click to expand...

eleos1954 said:

The speed of light is based on theory and this theory is applied to the universe (so vast we can't comprehend it) as a whole, we are not able to observe the entire universe .... leaves a lot of things in question scientifically .... many scientific theories out there about it. Which ... if any are absolutely correct? Who knows? ;o)

Is using the speed of light for measuring distance an absolute in measuring the universe?

Click to expand...

Unqualified said:

Don’t be a fool yourself @tdidymas believe God not the atheist.
The wisdom of God is foolishness to man and the wisdom of man is foolishness to God. But God is more wise. It all depends on Who you believe.

Click to expand...

Freth said:

Others have answered the question quite nicely, but I'll add my own perspective.

1. Truth.

God cannot lie.​

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.

Hebrews 6:13-14,18 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself, Saying, Surely blessing [1] I will bless thee , and multiplying [2] I will multiply thee ... That by two immutable things [promises, as numbered, above], in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us.
​

2. The knowledge of the world.

Scripture warns us about the knowledge of the world.​

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

1 Corinthians 2:4-5 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:19-21 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
​

3. Faith.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

​

Conclusion:

Q: how [sic] to resolve the light travel time problem?
A: The answer is to not ask the question in the first place.

Click to expand...

truthisfreedom2019 said:

I believe it is like the rivers God created. He never started by pouring water on the distant mountains and they eventually run to the sea. He made them in an instant. So it is with the lights in the sky.

Click to expand...

dqhall said:

An astronomical event that occurred light years away such as the remnants of a supernova might be seen in the night time sky as if it is today, while it happened years ago.

Paul wrote in Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Paul wrote his thoughts more than 1900 years ago, yet the reader might find his words today. In as much as all humans have erred and the Bible was written by human hands, it falls short of the glory of God. The wisdom given to men to seek the Lord after the teachings of Jesus has a chance, while worshipping the Bible falls short of perfection.

Click to expand...

AV1611VET said:

Just my thoughts on SN1987A, FWIW:

SN1987A: A blue supergiant star, created in BC4004 in the hollow of God's hand for the angel Sanduleak, i.e. his home. SN1987A was then 'ballooned' to the distance of 168,000 light years distance from the earth, with its starlight kept intact on the earth, when God stretched the universe.

Psalm 104:2b who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

Circa 2300 B.C., Sanduleak leaves his home and comes to earth and marries a woman here; settling down and having [giant] children.

God destroys the world with a global flood and confines Sanduleak to:

Jude 6: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

God then destroys Sanduleak's home (the supergiant star), circa 2345 B.C. and moves the light from its destruction across space for "discovery" on 23 February 1987.

Click to expand...

Mark Quayle said:

How do you know God did not create Adam with scars?

But whether he did or not is irrelevant. God can make a thing to appear aged any way he wishes to. But, in fact, God can do both and not be lying. As I have said in another forum, here we mere humans are coming up with time manipulation thoughts and semi-cogent theories, and we congratulate ourselves on our cleverness, yet we can't allow God, (who invented time), to do what he wishes with it, but call him a liar if he does?

I said God can do both. We pretty much all agree time is relative. And science concurs: For the person who travels, the time he takes to do so is literally less than the time passed by the one who sits waiting for him to return. When I think of the expansion of space-time at the Big Bang, (though most people disagreed with me here, I'm not sure they understood what I was trying to say), I don't see why not from one POV it could take 6K years, and from another take 15 billion.

As I said at first, though, there's nothing stopping God from giving the universe the appearance of 15 billion years, without it being a lie. It is not he who said it was 15 billion years old.

Click to expand...

AdamjEdgar said:

First, I think it dangerous to put science before the Bible...so your statement show me a scientific reason as to why creation should be taken as literal days is deeply flawed from a religious point of view.

I have answered this question at length in another thread the O.P is familiar with but am not one who has responded with any sarcasm (I am not sure on which forum that happened)

The short answer is this...
Satan tempts us in the dimension of our minds...this is not just in the physical senses of touch, hearing, taste and smell (which are bound to this earth essentially).
If Satan can attack other senses such as feeling and sight (things we cannot touch or smell) where in the Bible does it say that Satan cannot also distort our perception of the speed of light with regards to supernovas exploding?
Saying God cast him to the earth is true, however adding to this by stating God does not allow him to also influence our perceptions of space is very dangerous ground.
It is my view that sin reaches as far out into the universe as thought does and Satan therefore has influence to that extent.
Why do I say this?
Because we know that other worlds also had the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They all face that same temptation Eve did.
Now if we say they are all watching this battle on this world between good and evil, then we cannot deny that Satan is also tempting them too.

As I responded in the other post about this, my question is not about time when talking about supernovas. My question would be if God created that part of the universe perfect and if sin does not reach that far out into space, then why would God create a sun that explodes in the first place? This is why I consider the theory that "sin extends as far into space as thought and sight" and that (Satan's ability to influence/corrupt light) explains the 167,000 light year supernova issue.

Click to expand...