WHAT IS THE REAL GOSPEL?

Nathan@work · Apr 11, 2021

imge said:
Are you trying to convince me our yourself? It’s not the Sabbath that is spoken about, its a commandment, from our Creator!

You keep forgetting we receive God’s rest only when we are obedient It’s conditional. I agree the children of God rest in Christ when they obey God’s commandments including keeping His seventh day Sabbath holy.

Huh?

How is the commandment not talking of the Sabbath?

Gods rest is a gift. It is not something given in return for something.

We know that the Children of Israel did not enter it because of disbelief - they rejected Gods Faith. Their disobedience is the same for those today who reject Gods Faith in favor of what they can see.

Hebrews 4:1-3 (ESV) Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest,’” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.

It does not say “we who have obeyed the 10 commandments...”, we who have “believed”(Faith) have entered Gods Sabbath.

SabbathBlessings · Apr 11, 2021

Nathan@work said:
Huh?

How is the commandment not talking of the Sabbath?

Gods rest is a gift. It is not something given in return for something.

We know that the Children of Israel did not enter it because of disbelief - they rejected Gods Faith. Their disobedience is the same for those today who reject Gods Faith in favor of what they can see.

Hebrews 4:1-3 (ESV) Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest,’” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.

It does not say “we who have obeyed the 10 commandments...”, we who have “believed”(Faith) have entered Gods Sabbath.

It has been shared with you many times, but for whatever reason, you are closed off to the truth. We have tried though in good faith.

God’s 4th commandment is different than Christ rest we receive when we obey.

Hebrew 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

God’s rest is conditional based on our obedience, including keeping the Sabbath holy found in Exodus 20:8-11

I won’t continue debating this point, because several members already pointed this out to you as well. God bless

Nathan@work · Apr 11, 2021

imge said:
It has been shared with you many times, but for whatever reason, you are closed off to the truth. We have tried though in good faith.

God’s 4th commandment is different than Christ rest we receive when we obey.

Hebrew 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

God’s rest is conditional based on our obedience, including keeping the Sabbath holy found in Exodus 20:8-11

I won’t continue debating this point, because several members already pointed this out to you as well. God bless

I’m not sure if you are denying the command is of the Sabbath day of creation in favor of the weekly Sabbaths, but I will still iterate that it is speaking of the seventh day of creation.

Gods rest is not conditional or else it would not be a gift. The gifts of God are never conditional.

It is only those who willfully reject His rest, as the Children of Israel did when they constantly wanted to go back into slavery in Egypt, that someone does not enter His rest.

Galatians 4:21-31 (ESV) Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written, “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.” Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

The Gospel is for the Children born of the free woman, not the slave.

Nathan@work · Apr 11, 2021

God made a promise to Abraham and those who believe in the Gospel are children of that promise.

Gods promise to Abraham, His covenant with him, was not based on anything Abraham did - it was based on Abrahams Faith.

Romans 4:13-17 (ESV) For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring--not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”--in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 13, 2021

Nathan@work said:
God made a promise to Abraham and those who believe in the Gospel are children of that promise.

Gods promise to Abraham, His covenant with him, was not based on anything Abraham did - it was based on Abrahams Faith.

Romans 4:13-17 (ESV) For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring--not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”--in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.

Then who are the children of the promise?

Nathan@work · Apr 13, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Then who are the children of the promise?

[Gal 4:28 ESV] Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 13, 2021

Nathan@work said:
[Gal 4:28 ESV] Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.

So who is God's new covenant promise to *Hebrews 8:10-12?

Nathan@work · Apr 13, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
So who is God's new covenant promise to *Hebrews 8:10-12?

[Heb 9:15 ESV] Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 13, 2021

Nathan@work said:
[Heb 9:15 ESV] Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

So who is God's new covenant promise to according to Hebrews 8:10-12?

Nathan@work · Apr 13, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
So who is God's new covenant promise to according to Hebrews 8:10-12?

Well, as the passage states - those who are called. Who are those you may be asking?

Those of the Faith of Abraham - believers in Christ;

[Rom 4:23-25 ESV] But the words "it was counted to him" were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Nathan@work · Apr 13, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
So who is God's new covenant promise to according to Hebrews 8:10-12?

Ah, ok, you are just looking for what the passage says, not what it means?

In those two verses, it says "house of Israel".

So who is the "house of Israel"?

bbbbbbb · Apr 13, 2021

Nathan@work said:
Ah, ok, you are just looking for what the passage says, not what it means?

In those two verses, it says "house of Israel".

So who is the "house of Israel"?

Well, that sure would not be me.

Nathan@work · Apr 14, 2021

bbbbbbb said:
Well, that sure would not be me.

It would be if you are in Christ.

[Rom 11:25-27 ESV] Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

The mystery Paul speaks about is Gentiles becoming a part of Israel - together we are the 'household of God'.

[Eph 2:11-22 ESV]

Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands -- remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.

So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

This is why the new covenant. The two being brought together, Jew and Gentile, being made one in Christ, necessitated a new covenant.

This is the Gospel of Christ.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 15, 2021

Nathan@work said:
Ah, ok, you are just looking for what the passage says, not what it means?

In those two verses, it says "house of Israel".

So who is the "house of Israel"?

Agreed. Hebrews 8:10-12 which is Paul quoting from Jeremiah 31:31-34 with application from Ezekiel 36:24-27 say God's new covenant application of writing his laws in our hearts and mind and being born again in His Spirit to walk in His law is for God's new covenant promise to ISRAEL!

God's ISRAEL according to the new covenant scriptures are no longer those who are born in the flesh of the seed of Abraham but all those who are born again in the Spirit of God (John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9; 1 John 2:3-4) who are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 2:28-29; Ephesians 2:11-13.

If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL then we have no part in Gods new covenant promise. Gentile believers are now grafted in with Jewish believers and we are all now one in Christ *Romans 11:13-27; Romans 12:5; Galatians 3:28-29. Therefore what this means is that Gods' Word and promises are for all those who now believe and follow Gods' Word.

Gods' 4th commandment Sabbath is a sign of who Gods' people are according to the scriptures which is given to Gods' true ISRAEL as a sign that the God of creation is the one who saved his people from their sins *Ezekiel 20:12; 20; from Exodus 31:13. God's 4th commandment Sabbath is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4.

Therefore all those who believe and follow Gods' Word that the new covenant now defines as God's ISRAEL who are born of the Spirit by believing and following Gods' Word are given the Sabbath as a sign that is given to ISRAEL (God's people) that shows we are God's people and God is sanctifying us according to *Exodus 31:13; Ezekiel 20:12; 20; John 17:17; John 6:63 and as Paul says THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH -Hebrews 4:9.

According to the scriptures if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word according to James we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. Paul also says the same thing in Hebrews 10:26-31.

In these times of ignorance however, God winks at according to James 4:17 and Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and does not hold us accountable for sin until we receive a knowledge of the truth of Gods' Word at which time God calls us to believe and follow it *Acts 17:30.

Hope this is helpful

Nathan@work · Apr 15, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Paul says THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH -Hebrews 4:9.

[Heb 4:9-10 ESV] So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

How does one enter this Sabbath rest?

pescador · Apr 15, 2021

Nathan@work said:
[Heb 4:9-10 ESV] So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

How does one enter this Sabbath rest?

Stop struggling. If you're a Christian then you have received the Holy Spirit. There is therefore no need to keep on struggling against the desires of "the flesh".

Nathan@work · Apr 15, 2021

pescador said:
Stop struggling. If you're a Christian then you have received the Holy Spirit. There is therefore no need to keep on struggling against the desires of "the flesh".

So you are saying that you enter the Sabbath rest by not struggling?

Danthemailman · Apr 15, 2021

Nathan@work said:
[Heb 4:9-10 ESV] So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

How does one enter this Sabbath rest?

Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used no where else in the Bible! Amazing that Sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else in the Bible!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

SermonIndex.net Audio Sermons - Sermon Index

pescador · Apr 15, 2021

Nathan@work said:
So you are saying that you enter the Sabbath rest by not struggling?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. God rested -- ceased working -- on the Sabbath. As Christians we enter God's rest, cease from struggling, and rest secure in our faith.

Nathan@work · Apr 15, 2021

pescador said:
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. God rested -- ceased working -- on the Sabbath. As Christians we enter God's rest, cease from struggling, and rest secure in our faith.

So I gotta ask then, cease from struggling __________?

WHAT IS THE REAL GOSPEL?

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