WHAT IS THE REAL GOSPEL?

[LoveGodsWord]

Correct.

Ok so how do you reconcile James 2:10-11 and the Sabbath commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11?

 

[HIM]

Well, Faith is not the same for everyone. One source, many different applications.

This faith is or we are not.

Hebrews 11 illustrates this very well.

Hebrews eleven speaks of trails and tribulations that people persevered through because of faith.

I believe you are speaking of observing the Sabbath in the manner that He did, correct? Keeping(actually its 'remembering') the Sabbath is not the same as observing the Sabbath.

Word games.... God said remember and then addressed how it was to be observed, kept. He said to keep the Sabbath Holy and to rest.

Remembering has to do with keeping the Sabbath(actual Sabbath, 7th day of Creation) holy in our heart. The 4th commandment has to do with remembering God as the Creator of all.

Remembering to Keep the day Holy is from the heart and mind through Faith, the faith of Christ, through Christ's indwelling. Keeping the day holy and resting is from the heart and mind through Christ also.

The observance is outside, remembrance is inside. One is of the flesh, the other is of the Spirit.

Your words not God's. If our heart is anew through Christ our actions will fall within accordance to the Word, the law the Lord our God has placed there through Christ. If our actions do not we will grieve His Holiness away and we will not be as we ought and we will die in our sins.

 

[HIM]

editor is messing up so I deleted it

 

[HIM]

Faith is the evidence of things hoped for and the assurance of things not yet seen.

Hebrews 11:1 tell us what Faith does not what it is. So what is this Faith Nathan?

And by the way either that is a bad translation or you misquoted it.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for (expected), the evidence of things not seen.

 

[Nathan@work]

Ok so how do you reconcile James 2:10-11 and the Sabbath commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11?

I’m not sure what you mean exactly when you say reconcile. I do not see any contradiction with what James said and the Sabbath. So I do not understand there being a need for reconciliation.

 

[Nathan@work]

This faith is or we are not.

Hebrews eleven speaks of trails and tribulations that people persevered through because of faith.

Word games.... God said remember and then addressed how it was to be observed, kept. He said to keep the Sabbath Holy and to rest.



Remembering to Keep the day Holy is from the heart and mind through Faith, the faith of Christ, through Christ's indwelling. Keeping the day holy and resting is from the heart and mind through Christ also.

Your words not God's. If our heart is anew through Christ our actions will fall within accordance to the Word, the law the Lord our God has placed there through Christ. If our actions do not we will grieve His Holiness away and we will not be as we ought and we will die in our sins.

No play on words. There is a difference. That is why we use different words to express different things.

When we rest as God rested, then the Sabbath is not profaned. He gave us the Sabbath for that very reason - to rest from our works as He did.

Those who have entered His rest understand it. Those who refuse His rest, grumble and complain about it.

 

[Nathan@work]

Hebrews 11:1 tell us what Faith does not what it is. So what is this Faith Nathan?

And by the way either that is a bad translation or you misquoted it.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for (expected), the evidence of things not seen.

Yes, I transposed the words.

Assurance of things hoped for, evidence of things not yet seen.

That is what Faith is, and by way of it also what it produces.

If you want a more detailed definition then here you go.

Faith hears what God says, and knows what He says will be so. Faith goes against what the flesh sees and knows. It transcends our human senses because Faith is Gods knowledge and power, not our own.

Time and space would limit me to give all the different examples of this. However my favorite one is Peter.

Peter saw Jesus walking on the water, in the waves, during the storm. Peter knew that if Jesus ‘commanded’ him to come out to Him, then Peter could. Peter knew it could only be done if Jesus told him.

So Jesus told him to come and Peter got out and started walking to Him. The moment he switched from Faith to human reason - which doubted how it could be happening - he started to sink.

At least Peter knew that Jesus could still save him, which shows he still had enough Faith not to drown.

Peters actions defied what all human reason would say is true. That is Faith.

This is why Faith is not by sight.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I’m not sure what you mean exactly when you say reconcile. I do not see any contradiction with what James said and the Sabbath. So I do not understand there being a need for reconciliation.

I think it is pretty plain for all so see if you read the scriptures. James 2:10-11 says if you break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin and Gods' Sabbath commandment that says we are not to do any work on the seventh day of the week because God blessed it and made it a Holy day of rest is one of Gods' 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11.

 

[Nathan@work]

I think it is pretty plain for all so see if you read the scriptures. James 2:10-11 says if you break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin and Gods' Sabbath commandment that says we are not to do any work on the seventh day of the week because God blessed it and made it a Holy day of rest is one of Gods' 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11.

Right, I do not see any conflict or need of resolution.

The commandment does not say to do no work on the seventh day of the week. It says to remember the Sabbath to keep it holy. The observance they were called to do in the law was done by resting on the Sabbath day each week.

The Sabbath is the seventh Day of creation, when God rested from creating - working. That is the day to remember and keep holy.

Hebrews gives us insight to that Day.

Hebrews 4:4 (ESV) For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”

There are many “Sabbaths” spoken of in the Bible. Weekly and throughout the year. However, they all point to the one and only Day God rested.

The Sabbath you are talking about is the weekly one. It was a sign between God and the Children of Israel in observance of it. Weekly, they would have certain things they did, and did not do, to remember the Seventh Day of creation.

Much like the particular offerings and sacrifices they did, the weekly Sabbath(and all the other ones) were rituals/ceremonies that had their fulfillment in Christ.

As believers in Christ, we keep the Sabbath holy not only in remembrance of the Day God rested from creation - but in observance of why He rested.

God was not tired. He did not need to rest, but we know that He was pointing to a Day when He would give all His children(those of Faith) rest from all their labors - completely - as He rested from creation completely.

That is the 4th commandment. If you rest in Christ, not doing your own work(works of the flesh), then you are showing your love to God and thereby not breaking the command.

If though, you strive in the flesh to ‘work’ for righteousness, then you are not resting in Christ, and you are breaking the command. As James said, if your breaking one, your breaking them all.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Right, I do not see any conflict or need of resolution.

Amazing. For me I see a lot of conflict here but let me explain why from the scriptures. Gods' Word not mine says that if we knowingly break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin in Romans 7:7 and James 2:10-11. God's seventh day Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20:8-11 is one of Gods' 10 commandments but you do not see a conflict with these scriptures and your position? Well if we believe the scriptures there does indeed certainly seems to be a conflict here.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The commandment does not say to do no work on the seventh day of the week. It says to remember the Sabbath to keep it holy. The observance they were called to do in the law was done by resting on the Sabbath day each week.

Actually no. Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandment does indeed state we are to remember and rest on the "seventh day" of the week and not do any work. Perhaps you did not read it correctly?

4th commandment of the 10 commandments...

Exodus 20:8-11[8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day) [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT

Hope this is helpful.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The Sabbath is the seventh Day of creation, when God rested from creating - working. That is the day to remember and keep holy.

Indeed we keep it as a Holy day of rest by not working on the "seventh day" of the week according to the commandment as stated in Exodus 20:10.

 

[Nathan@work]

Actually no. Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandment does indeed state we are to remember and rest on the "seventh day" of the week and not do any work. Perhaps you did not read it correctly?

4th commandment of the 10 commandments...

Exodus 20:8-11[8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day) [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT

Hope this is helpful.

Right. Maybe you do not realize, but you showed yourself the difference between the commandment and how God wanted them to observe it.

The command is to remember the Sabbath.

The way Israel was to do that was by resting on the seventh day of each week.

It was for them to remember the week of creation. The weekly Sabbath pointed them to the true Sabbath Day - the day God rested - and point them to the rest God gives in Christ.

We too remember the Sabbath day as believers. We can look back and see what it meant, it is not a mystery for us as it was them.

The caution today is that people do enter that rest and not look past it.

As far as the rituals and ceremonial aspect of the weekly Sabbath is concerned;

Romans 14:5-6 (ESV) One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

To be completely honest here, I am guilty of judgment. I know I can be judgmental sometimes just based on if a person observes the Sabbath as the Children of Israel did. For that I do apologize and ask forgiveness.

I do not mean to. I really think it’s wonderful if someone wants to observe it in honor of Christ. I just am on guard for those, who as Paul would call out, seek to make a showing in their flesh - and convince the weak in Faith to follow them.

It is not right to judge others if their actions and intentions are toward Christ and God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Right. Maybe you do not realize, but you showed yourself the difference between the commandment and how God wanted them to observe it.

The command is to remember the Sabbath.

The way Israel was to do that was by resting on the seventh day of each week.

It was for them to remember the week of creation. The weekly Sabbath pointed them to the true Sabbath Day - the day God rested - and point them to the rest God gives in Christ.

We too remember the Sabbath day as believers. We can look back and see what it meant, it is not a mystery for us as it was them.

The caution today is that people do enter that rest and not look past it.

As far as the rituals and ceremonial aspect of the weekly Sabbath is concerned;

Romans 14:5-6 (ESV) One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

To be completely honest here, I am guilty of judgment. I know I can be judgmental sometimes just based on if a person observes the Sabbath as the Children of Israel did. For that I do apologize and ask forgiveness.

I do not mean to. I really think it’s wonderful if someone wants to observe it in honor of Christ. I just am on guard for those, who as Paul would call out, seek to make a showing in their flesh - and convince the weak in Faith to follow them.

It is not right to judge others if their actions and intentions are toward Christ and God.

Hi there,

I'm not sure why, but somehow you cut off half of the commandment, like mid-sentence. Here is the complete sentence and the commandment God gave us as an eternal covenant.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. By removing half the sentence, it loses the context and I am sure you did not mean to do that about God's Sabbath day. Keeping it holy is the key part of the commandment. The Sabbath is our special day to have communion with our Savior on His Sabbath day, the day He asked us to keep holy, which means to set aside our work and focus on Jesus. Isaiah 58:13

 

[Nathan@work]

Hi there,

I'm not sure why, but somehow you cut off half of the commandment, like mid-sentence. Here is the complete sentence and the commandment God gave us as an eternal covenant.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. By removing half the sentence, it loses the context and I am sure you did not mean to do that about God's Sabbath day. Keeping it holy is the key part of the commandment. The Sabbath is our special day to have communion with our Savior on His Sabbath day, the day He asked us to keep holy, which means to set aside our work and focus on Jesus. Isaiah 58:13

The translation I use says “to” keep it holy, not “by” keeping it holy.

Point is, that is inferred. All things of God are holy. A person of Faith would not see it otherwise.

God gave the ordinance of working six days and doing no work on the seventh to Israel at Horeb. The ritual/ceremonial aspect of that was just like all of His other commands that were fulfilled in Christ.

If someone still chooses to see Saturday as a day of rest then I do not have any issue with it personally. I’ve always said that is great for them.

The command is to remember the actual Sabbath, however, to keep “it” holy. The actual Sabbath was the day God rested from His work of creation.

That is the day we remember and keep holy. We can do that all the time, or we can do that weekly.

I personally do it all the time. I know that day when God rested was to point us to our rest in Christ. My rest is fully in Christ and every single day I remember it.

God created that day as the finality of His work. When Jesus died on the cross He finished the work He had come to do. When we have Faith in Him, we put an end to our work as well.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The translation I use says “to” keep it holy, not “by” keeping it holy.

Point is, that is inferred. All things of God are holy. A person of Faith would not see it otherwise.

God gave the ordinance of working six days and doing no work on the seventh to Israel at Horeb. The ritual/ceremonial aspect of that was just like all of His other commands that were fulfilled in Christ.

If someone still chooses to see Saturday as a day of rest then I do not have any issue with it personally. I’ve always said that is great for them.

The command is to remember the actual Sabbath, however, to keep “it” holy. The actual Sabbath was the day God rested from His work of creation.

That is the day we remember and keep holy. We can do that all the time, or we can do that weekly.

I personally do it all the time. I know that day when God rested was to point us to our rest in Christ. My rest is fully in Christ and every single day I remember it.

God created that day as the finality of His work. When Jesus died on the cross He finished the work He had come to do. When we have Faith in Him, we put an end to our work as well.

Both translations mean the same thing. The Sabbath day we are supposed to keep Holy, that’s why God says to Hallow My Sabbath Ezekiel 20:20

Hallow means keep holy
hal·low
/ˈhalō/

verb

1. honor as holy.
   "the Ganges is hallowed as a sacred, cleansing river"
   
   It seems like you keep trying to change God’s will to your will and I would be careful doing that.
   
   God bless

 

[Nathan@work]

Both translations mean the same thing. The Sabbath day we are supposed to keep Holy, that’s why God says to Hallow My Sabbath Ezekiel 20:20

Hallow means keep holy
hal·low
/ˈhalō/

verb

1. honor as holy.
   "the Ganges is hallowed as a sacred, cleansing river"
   
   It seems like you keep trying to change God’s will to your will and I would be careful doing that.
   
   God bless

You are referencing the weekly Sabbath which is a reference to the actual Sabbath God created, which is a reference to the rest we all have in Christ.

I cannot change Gods will. His will is for us to remember the day He rested from creation - the rest He gives us in Christ - to keep it holy.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You are referencing the weekly Sabbath which is a reference to the actual Sabbath God created, which is a reference to the rest we all have in Christ.

I cannot change Gods will. His will is for us to remember the day He rested from creation - the rest He gives us in Christ - to keep it holy.

I agree, you cannot change God's will.

Your interpretation is not the Sabbath commandment. God did not command Christ to give us rest. You are confusing the rest we have in Christ only when we obey, not breaking His commandments, including the Sabbath commandment that clearly says:

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I don't see anywhere in God's Sabbath commandment where He tells Christ (Himself) to give us rest. You are free to believe as you wish, but it changes not God's Truth. If you do not believe the commandment that God wrote with His own finger and spoke from His own mouth, than your argument is really with Him, not with me. God bless.

 

[Nathan@work]

I agree, you cannot change God's will.

Your interpretation is not the Sabbath commandment. God did not command Christ to give us rest. You are confusing the rest we have in Christ only when we obey, not breaking His commandments, including the Sabbath commandment that clearly says:

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I don't see anywhere in God's Sabbath commandment where He tells Christ (Himself) to give us rest. You are free to believe as you wish, but it changes not God's Truth. If you do not believe the commandment that God wrote with His own finger and spoke from His own mouth, than your argument is really with Him, not with me. God bless.

I’m not arguing with anyone.

The Sabbath, spoken of in the 4th commandment, is the Sabbath day of creation.

The Children of Israel observed it by doing/not doing things on the weekly Sabbaths.

Children of God observe it by resting in Christ.

The Sabbath itself has never changed. It was and is the Seventh day of creation. I believe that with my whole heart.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I’m not arguing with anyone.

The Sabbath, spoken of in the 4th commandment, is the Sabbath day of creation.

The Children of Israel observed it by doing/not doing things on the weekly Sabbaths.

Children of God observe it by resting in Christ.

The Sabbath itself has never changed. It was and is the Seventh day of creation. I believe that with my whole heart.

Are you trying to convince me our yourself? It’s not the Sabbath that is spoken about, its a commandment, from our Creator!

You keep forgetting we receive God’s rest only when we are obedient It’s conditional. I agree the children of God rest in Christ when they obey God’s commandments including keeping His seventh day Sabbath holy.