When do the biblical days begin?

guevaraj said:

Brother, I am correcting possibly the oldest, invented tradition that contradicts the biblical message.

You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” (Mark 7:8-13 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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Mark 7 is a statement of Christ about a tradition that went against the command to honor parents... so far you have not stated anything about honoring parents... and you have not shown the Bible case for the claim that days begin in the middle of the day.

Many biblical passages confirm that the day is from morning to morning, like the rules of eating Passover

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not in the Bible.

Lev 23:32 from evening until evening, you shall keep your Sabbath.
Gen 1:5 And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
Gen 1:8 And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Gen 1:3 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.

guevaraj said:

Brother, God added the moon to the previously existing sun to determine the days from the first day with the sun and now the seasons with the addition of the moon. God explains on the forth day something that started from the first day with the sun. The word "evening" means sunset, revealing the sun from the first day.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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previously existing sun? OH MY...moon added to it? oh boy

there was Light it was called DAY...the SUN AND MOON and stars were made on the fourth DAY...

now some attempt to be clever and claim He appointed or employed the Sun and Moon that day having created/made them day one...but that is a stretch...

a better argument at this point is:

did the earth begin to spin or did the sun and moon begin to orbit...as THAT SUN is since day FOUR what makes light and dark...day and night...placed INTO a cadence ALREADY SET for 3 days of day and night...

guevaraj said:

Brother, you confuse a day of the week with the Sabbath. The Sabbath falls on a day of the week in Eden and nowhere else. In Israel, the Sabbath falls between two days of the week, taking the night of the six day and the light of the seventh day. This is important in discrediting the Sunday tradition that is defended by claiming that Jesus resurrected on Sunday when He did not. Jesus resurrected on the night of the seventh day in Israel, He resurrected on a Saturday. The Sabbath in Israel tells us where Eden is from Israel and it falls on the International Date Line, the sight of our origin, where God taught us the count the days with the week.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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Eden falls on the international date line...in the Pacific?

guevaraj said:

Brother, the beginning is before creation week, an unspecified time before the scriptures focus on our beginning from creation week.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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are you advocating the GAP theory...or some variation?

Gap creationism - Wikipedia

HARK! said:

Those are your words, not YHWH's. I follow Yahshua, as he followed YHWH's Torah, not our own understanding, not the traditions of men.

YHWH is not the author of confusion. If he had created the earth the week before the week of creation; I believe that he would have said so. He didn't speak of another week. he included it in the week from the beginning.

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good...and yet...

HARK! said:

That's not what scripture says. I provided scripture to support my statement. Somehow it was edited out of my quote.

There was no sun on the first day.

(CLV) Gn 1:13
And evening came to be, and morning came to be: the third day.

(CLV) Gn 1:14
And Elohim said: Let luminaries come to be in the atmosphere of the heavens to separate between the day and the night, that they may be for signs, for appointed seasons, for days and years.

(CLV) Gn 1:15
Let them be for luminaries in the atmosphere of the heavens to give light on the earth. And it came to be so.

(CLV) Gn 1:16
Elohim made two great luminaries, the greater luminary for ruling the day and the smaller luminary for ruling the night, and also the stars.

(CLV) Gn 1:17
Elohim placed them in the atmosphere of the heavens to give light on the earth,

(CLV) Gn 1:18
to rule the day and the night, and to separate between the light and the darkness. And Elohim saw that it was good.

(CLV) Gn 1:19
And evening came to be, and morning came to be: the fourth day.

What is the greater luminary that rules the day; and on what day was it created?

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good translation...

each daylight portion of the day had an act of creation...it was called good...and evening came to be...and morning came to be...and THEN it was numbered...

Pray we do this:

Titus 1:14

HARK! said:

Do you believe that the sun was created in daylight, like sun made daylight?

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that I can't speak to...as yet...

He is Spirit...Immortal Consuming FIRE...LIGHT...SOUND...

so He either "turned Himself OFF and ON" or spun the world/or spun around IT Himself...as it was LIGHT FROM HIM...or He DID make the Sun and Moon at DAY ONE and appointed them day four...

but yes the Sun and Moon and Stars were made or appointed during the LIGHT portion of the Day...not the NIGHT after evening and before morning of the next day...

light is not matter and energy...

a wavelength breaks at 1/7 proportion it would make sense HE HIMSELF stamped this proportion INTO NATURE

sound wave= we have seven notes
light wave= we have seven colors



SO HIS ENERGY HIMSELF is 1/7...

?...

and as He is rest...having made the seventh day Holy on that day

guevaraj said:

Brother, God added the moon to the previously existing sun to determine the days from the first day with the sun and now the seasons with the addition of the moon.

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There is a lot of "extreme inference" in the the point you raise... I prefer the text of scripture.

guevaraj said:

Brother, consider when is the point in time when the day before ends and begins the next day in the manna story.

However, some of them paid no attention to Moses; they kept part of it until morning, but it was full of maggots and began to smell. So Moses was angry with them. (Exodus 16:20 NIV)​

When it lasts a day above, it goes bad after the "morning" but when it lasts two days below it does not spoil after the "morning". The end of the day before and the beginning of the next day is in the "morning".

So they saved it until morning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. (Exodus 16:24 NIV)​

According to Genesis, revealed is "morning" as the point in time that ends the first day and begins the second day. God creates during the day-half and has nothing to report during the night-half. That is why He mentions the beginning "evening" and the end "morning" with nothing to report during the period of the night that ends each day.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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that is NOT a logical hypothesis at all, people do not eat at night, they eat in the morning...

guevaraj said:

Brother, it's not about when they eat but when it spoils.

However, some of them paid no attention to Moses; they kept part of it until morning, but it was full of maggots and began to smell. So Moses was angry with them. (Exodus 16:20 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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It says quail in the evening and manna in the morning. So on Friday morning they gathered twice as much because there would be none on the ground on Shabbat morning. So they boiled what they boiled and cooked what they cooked on Friday. It spoiled because some were saving it day by day and God wanted them to understand they needed to rely on Him only. That has nothing to do with the Sabbath. It is actually the opposite, they were allowed to keep a double portion on Friday to be used on Shabbat. "So they gathered it morning by morning"...and on Shabbat morning the extra collected on Friday did NOT stink or was spoiled...

HARK! said:

There is no such thing as matter nor energy. These are theoretical ideals, which in reality, don't exist in pure form. All that we perceive in the physical world is plasma, exhibiting both qualities of matter and energy, in varying degrees.

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ok well all that is above my pay grade so back to making Passover work...

your translation really shows the true progression:

(CLV) Gn 1:17
Elohim placed them in the atmosphere of the heavens to give light on the earth,

(CLV) Gn 1:18
to rule the day and the night, and to separate between the light and the darkness. And Elohim saw that it was good.

(CLV) Gn 1:19
And evening came to be, and morning came to be: the fourth day.

(CLV) Gn 1:17
Elohim placed them in the atmosphere of the heavens to give light on the earth,

(CLV) Gn 1:18
to rule the day and the night, and to separate between the light and the darkness. And Elohim saw that it was good.

(CLV) Gn 1:19
And evening came to be, and morning came to be: the fourth day.

the act of creation occurs during the daylight portion of the day...and then evening came...NIGHT...and then the morning...

the day now complete...it is finally numbered...

like an odometer measures distances already traveled...

birthdays celebrate the year already lived...

NOW Passover works...as the lambs are killed on the AFTERNOON of the 14th...the meal is eaten THAT NIGHT the SAME DAY thank offerings are offered and consumed...none left for the morning the next day...And the angel passes over at midnight STILL on the 14th...

the Passover meal is actually eaten BEFORE the passing over...what faith!

We see the same progression later at the Red Sea...

and this day you see the Egyptians TODAY you will see no more Exodus 14:13

Then Israel crosses on dry land THAT night and Israel was saved THAT DAY and saw only drowned Egyptians the next day’s morning Exodus 14:30

as Yah saved Israel THAT day...the same day they saw Pharaoh’s armies pursuing...and the same day they crossed the Red Sea at night...

I noted this text was offered:

Lev 23:32 "from evening until evening, you shall keep your Sabbath."

This was for the day of atONEment...which began the evening of the 9th and lasted until the evening of the 10th...ye shall afflict yourselves...tradition has it as fasting...

this text is the foundational text to "days begin in the evening"...

IF the days BEGIN at their evening...then the 9th at sundown BEGINS the 9th NOT the 10th...as the evening begins the 10th as well...

"evening of the ninth" BEGINS the 9th day...a two day fast?

when days begin in the morning we begin our fast as the 9th DAYlight turns to night and we end our affliction when the 10th DAYlight turns to night...

so our fast begins at sundown the 9th and ends at sundown the 10th...

we can eat during the day on the 9th and during the night of the 10th

Mark 16:1–2 depicts, “And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early on the first day of the week, they come to the tomb when the sun was risen.”

They did not come when the Sabbath was past in the evening...but when the first day began in the morning when the sun was rising...

Matthew 28:1 “Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre”

they came in the morning to do work...would need light of day...not work at night...

the only thing which happened that Sunday morning was the tomb was discovered ALREADY EMPTY...

He had risen the day before...on the Sabbath which ended at sunrise...

The whole argument for worship on Sunday is that it was the day He rose...which is NOT TRUE...

Titus 1:14...applies