Anti-Christ update

5thKingdom said:

In Matthew 13 [13:24-30 and 13:36-43] JESUS said
the church consists of unsaved "tares" sown by Satan
and saved "wheat" sown by God.

Click to expand...

Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Can you show us the word "church" in the passage?

.

nolidad said:

The 144,000 may not all have come from teh land of Israel, but they are 144,000 Jewish virgin men who are sealed to serve God!

If you wish I can give you even the practical down to earth reasons why God would do this in the tribulation week!

Click to expand...

You've been corrected previously regarding the identity of the 144,000 but continue to perpetuate your error.

When you claimed that I did the same, you accused me of lying.

What do you call it when you do it?

Only the Church -- comprised of all the saints through all the ages -- is sealed.

Understand what the Spirit saith.


The Church and the 144,000

Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – the Church:

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes (Levi and Joseph replacing Dan and Ephraim), describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:

• Judah means “praise” (Gen 29:35)
• Reuben means “see, a Son” (Gen 29:32)
• Gad means “fortunate” (Gen 30:11)
• Asher means “happy” (Gen 30:13)
• Naphtali means “wrestling” (Gen 30:8)
• Manasseh means “forgetting” (Gen 41:51)
• Simeon means “heard” (Gen 29:33)
• Levi means “attached” (Gen 29:34)
• Issachar means “wages” (Gen 30:18)
• Zebulon means “dwelling” (Gen 30:20)
• Joseph means “He will add” (Gen 30:24)
• Benjamin means “Son of the right hand” (Gen 35:17–18)

Similarly, the meanings of the names of Dan and Ephraim convey the reasons for their exclusion:

• Dan means “a serpent by the way”(Genesis 49:17)

Satan in the guise of the serpent was responsible for the fall of mankind in Genesis 3, and for the bruising of Messiah's heel in Scripture's first recorded prophecy of Genesis 3:15. It was the same serpent Satan whose head Messiah bruised at Calvary.

• Ephraim means “fruitful in the land of mine affliction” (Genesis 41:52)

The reference to “the land of mine affliction” in Ephraim's name's meaning is to that of Egypt, which in Scripture is both a literal and spiritual reality and symbol of bondage. But the Church, God's Chosen People, do not inhabit a land of spiritual affliction and bondage. Rather, they inhabit the Heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Sion (Hebrews 12:22,23), located in the Heavenly Country that God has prepared for the faithful (Hebrews 11:16).

Of additional significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.

While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful (1 Kings 19:18). Their number is depicted as 12, a scriptural value representing faithfulness; multiplied by 12, representing the faithful from each of the twelve tribes; multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number (Psalms 50:10; Psalms 91:7; Revelation 5:11) of the total faithful in Israel; thus, 144,000.

Revelation 14 continues the descriptions further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and unity of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile. Its number can also be depicted as 12, representing faithfulness; multipled by 12 representing the 12 faithful apostles, who with the prophets comprise the foundation of the NT church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20); multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number of the total faithful in the NT Church; thus, also 144,000.

The NT Church's inclusivity and unity are declared in the following:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:14
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


The 144,00 are described as celibate, meaning that as the Bride of Christ, they are not defiled by adultery with the world (James 4:4). They sing a new song of deliverance and victory. They follow Christ wherever He goes. Their residence is heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Zion. (Hebrews 12:22)

No doubt about it…the Church is written all over the 144,000.

BABerean2 said:

Can you show us the word "church" in the passage?
.

Click to expand...

Sure... it is right here... I marked it in RED for you:
And I even provided a commentary to help you understand (below the passage)

Mat 13:24-30
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven
is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while
men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and
went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth
fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder
came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field?
from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath
done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and
gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares,
ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until
the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather
ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them:
but gather the wheat into my barn.

-------------------------
Kingdom of Wheat and Tares
---------------------------

(1) The "Kingdom of Heaven" is an earthly Kingdom

(2) The sower of good seed represents the Lord Jesus Christ

(3) The sower of bad seed represents Satan, the King of Babylon

(4) The "Word of the Kingdom" (the seed) is the Gospel of the New Testament

(5) The "field" represents the world, as the Gospel goes forth to both Jew and Gentile

(6) The "fruit" of the field (both wheat and tares) represents the (3rd) "Kingdom of Heaven"

(7) The "Word of the Kingdom" gathers good fish and bad fish during the Christian Kingdom

(8) The (saved) "wheat" and the (unsaved) "tares" LOOK similar, and grow together
until the end-of-the-age

(9) At the end-of-the-age, the "wheat and tares" (good fish/bad fish) are separated
in the "Final Harvest"

--------------------------

'

5thKingdom said:

(1) The "Kingdom of Heaven" is an earthly Kingdom

Click to expand...

How many unbiased witnesses would say the above statement makes sense?

How many people could be truly "born-again" of the Spirit of God, and yet be a tare?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
.

shilohsfoal said:

No the little horn is not a little man.
If you attempt to use common sense you would know if Iran attacked Israel there would be no Iran. In fact there would not be any surviving countries around as Israel. That is because of the Samson option. It's called the time of the end when the nation's attack Israel.
You keep waiting for that little man though. You keep waiting after everyone in Israel has the mark of Israel. You keep waiting after the nations attack Israel and all of the middle east is destroyed. You keep waiting,im.sure a little man is somewhere to be found.

Click to expand...

What is the spiritual condition of earthly Jerusalem shortly before the 7th trumpet, and the time of the judgment of the dead, which are found in Revelation 11:15-18?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


.

jgr said:

You've been corrected previously regarding the identity of the 144,000 but continue to perpetuate your error.

When you claimed that I did the same, you accused me of lying.

What do you call it when you do it?

Only the Church -- comprised of all the saints through all the ages -- is sealed.

Understand what the Spirit saith.


The Church and the 144,000

Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – the Church:

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes (Levi and Joseph replacing Dan and Ephraim), describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:

• Judah means “praise” (Gen 29:35)
• Reuben means “see, a Son” (Gen 29:32)
• Gad means “fortunate” (Gen 30:11)
• Asher means “happy” (Gen 30:13)
• Naphtali means “wrestling” (Gen 30:8)
• Manasseh means “forgetting” (Gen 41:51)
• Simeon means “heard” (Gen 29:33)
• Levi means “attached” (Gen 29:34)
• Issachar means “wages” (Gen 30:18)
• Zebulon means “dwelling” (Gen 30:20)
• Joseph means “He will add” (Gen 30:24)
• Benjamin means “Son of the right hand” (Gen 35:17–18)

Similarly, the meanings of the names of Dan and Ephraim convey the reasons for their exclusion:

• Dan means “a serpent by the way”(Genesis 49:17)

Satan in the guise of the serpent was responsible for the fall of mankind in Genesis 3, and for the bruising of Messiah's heel in Scripture's first recorded prophecy of Genesis 3:15. It was the same serpent Satan whose head Messiah bruised at Calvary.

• Ephraim means “fruitful in the land of mine affliction” (Genesis 41:52)

The reference to “the land of mine affliction” in Ephraim's name's meaning is to that of Egypt, which in Scripture is both a literal and spiritual reality and symbol of bondage. But the Church, God's Chosen People, do not inhabit a land of spiritual affliction and bondage. Rather, they inhabit the Heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Sion (Hebrews 12:22,23), located in the Heavenly Country that God has prepared for the faithful (Hebrews 11:16).

Of additional significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.

While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful (1 Kings 19:18). Their number is depicted as 12, a scriptural value representing faithfulness; multiplied by 12, representing the faithful from each of the twelve tribes; multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number (Psalms 50:10; Psalms 91:7; Revelation 5:11) of the total faithful in Israel; thus, 144,000.

Revelation 14 continues the descriptions further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and unity of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile. Its number can also be depicted as 12, representing faithfulness; multipled by 12 representing the 12 faithful apostles, who with the prophets comprise the foundation of the NT church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20); multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number of the total faithful in the NT Church; thus, also 144,000.

The NT Church's inclusivity and unity are declared in the following:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:14
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


The 144,00 are described as celibate, meaning that as the Bride of Christ, they are not defiled by adultery with the world (James 4:4). They sing a new song of deliverance and victory. They follow Christ wherever He goes. Their residence is heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Zion. (Hebrews 12:22)

No doubt about it…the Church is written all over the 144,000.

Click to expand...

This is all well and good. It gave the church hope for 1900 years. It WAS the spiritual application.

NOW, we are in the nitty gritty end of the age period, period.

Would you say, let's just say, George Whitfields, x amount of converts, happened to be mentioned in Revelation? Would people in 1611 think those x amount of converts represented the WHOLE CHURCH? Sure, they would have spiritualized those verses just like all the church did about this specific 144K group. There is nothing wrong in giving the church hope.

However, when some in the church started to realize that hey, this George Whitfield guy is an actual human, and wow, x number of souls were saved, it got real! It was a fulfillment of prophecy. Those were real live humans, and guess what, they are apart of the church.

We do not have to pretend any more, that the 144K will be actual Jewish male virgins. We do not have to spiritualize they represent the whole church. We have seen the whole church throughout history and every single nitty gritty act, unfortunately. The church did not stay a virgin. The church had to get revived many times over, BUT prophecy will be fulfilled. There will be a literal 144K Jewish male virgins sealed by God. In the first century, out of 300 million, 144K seemed like a lot. Now today actual living people are over 7.5 billion. 144K a small metropolitan city.

Yes these Jewish males are sealed before the 7th seal and the book is opened. Except this event is not just a seal. It is the "call of Pentecost" for today. Just like God gave Jesus 12 disciples the first coming. God gives The Lamb, 144K disciples the second coming. They will do the work of the harvest preparation along side of the Lamb. It is rather simple, just like it was rather simple the first time 1990 years ago. Not sure why there is so much fuss about it?

Can you imagine the Pharisees arguing how 12 Jewish males represented the whole of the OT saints, one disciple from each tribe?

Why are we arguing today?

shilohsfoal said:

It's here.
Revelation 5:6 Then I saw a Lamb who appeared to have been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which represent the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

Click to expand...

Well there you go! God tells us what the horns and eyes represent on Jesus the Lamb. But that has no bearing on the ten horns of the beast of Daniel and Revelation with 10 horns.

But the Antichrist?

Dan. 9:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

5thKingdom said:

But Jesus disagrees with you.
In Matthew 13 [13:24-30 and 13:36-43] JESUS said
the church consists of unsaved "tares" sown by Satan
and saved "wheat" sown by God.

But what does Jesus know... Right?

.

Click to expand...

Well now you are getting involved in the difference between the visible church which is composed of wheat and tares (but Jesus never called the tares members of the church. Remember the field Jesus said is the world not the church) Then there is the invisible church, which is the body of Christ which is composed of saved individuals in all sects of Christendom!

Jesus knows more than all of us combined and he never called the tares the church!

BABerean2 said:

How many unbiased witnesses would say the above statement makes sense?

How many people could be truly "born-again" of the Spirit of God, and yet be a tare?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
.

Click to expand...

Sir, your argument is with JESUS (not with me).
I understand that this is NEW INFORMATION for you and
I understand that it destroys your current gospel...

However, It was JESUS who NAMED these "Kingdoms of Heaven"
and if you want to REJECT the Words of Christ...
do so at your own peril:


(1) JESUS specifically NAMED the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven"

Mat 22:2
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king,
which made a marriage for his son,


(2) JESUS specifically NAMED the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"

Mat 13:24
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,
The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed
good seed in his field:


(3) JESUS also NAMED the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"

Mat 25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins,
which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.


(4) And JESUS specifically NAMED the Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven"

Mat 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west,
and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob,
in the kingdom of heaven.


Now... You do not have to LIKE what Jesus specifically NAMED
and you do not have to ACCEPT what Jesus NAMED in Scripture
but your REJECTION of Scripture or your intentional IGNORING
Scripture cannot negate what JESUS specifically NAMED.

Your fight is with JESUS (not with me)

.

nolidad said:

Well now you are getting involved in the difference between the visible church which is composed of wheat and tares (but Jesus never called the tares members of the church. Remember the field Jesus said is the world not the church) Then there is the invisible church, which is the body of Christ which is composed of saved individuals in all sects of Christendom!

Jesus knows more than all of us combined and he never called the tares the church!

Click to expand...

Oh... what mental gymnastics you are willing to do to intentionally
IGNORE and REJECT what Jesus NAMED in Scripture. The only
problem is that you cannot erase what Jesus said....
it is in the Bible. Do you REJECT the Bible?

Or do you imagine there are "wheat and tares" in Heaven?
Is THAT what you are saying child?


(1) JESUS specifically NAMED the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven"

Mat 22:2
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king,
which made a marriage for his son,


(2) JESUS specifically NAMED the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"

Mat 13:24
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,
The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed
good seed in his field:


(3) JESUS also NAMED the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"

Mat 25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins,
which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.


(4) And JESUS specifically NAMED the Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven"

Mat 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west,
and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob,
in the kingdom of heaven.


My only question to you is this:
If you are going to REJECT and IGNORE Scriptures you don't like,
then (a) how can you call yourself "Christian" and (b) how many
different Scriptures will you REJECT... will you reject 10 verses?
will you REJECT 50 verses? Will you REJECT 100 verses?

--------------------------------------------------------
The phrase "Kingdom of Heaven" is used thirty-three (33)
times in the Bible and every time the phrase represents
the many unsaved "tares" and/or the few saved "wheat",
associated with preaching the "Word of the Kingdom"
(the Gospel) during one of the FOUR KINGDOMS on earth...
or it represents ONLY the saved "wheat" harvested into
the (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven".
-------------------------------------------------------------
The four "Kingdoms of Heaven" are physical and temporal
Kingdoms... and there's a "harvest" of Saints at the end of
each, with the "Final Harvest" including only the "Wise Virgins"
living during the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1]
---------------------------------------------------------
The phrase "Kingdom of God" is used seventy (70) times
in the Bible and every time it represents the Holy Spirit of God
and/or the souls (but not the bodies) of the saved "wheat"
who have been regenerated by His "indwelling" Holy Spirit.
To be clear, the "Kingdom of God" is a SUBSET of
the "Kingdom of Heaven" since it only includes the saved
"wheat", and not the unsaved "tares".
---------------------------------
Therefore, the Bible can use the phrases interchangeably
when it focuses only on the "wheat" within the Kingdom.
When focused only on the "wheat", the Bible can use
"Kingdom of Heaven" OR "Kingdom of God". And that
is why we have several parallel passages in the Bible
that can (and do) interchange these two phrases.
-----------------------------------

.

nolidad said:

Remember the field Jesus said is the world not the church)

Click to expand...

--------------------------------
Kingdom of Wheat and Tares
---------------------------------

(1) The "Kingdom of Heaven" is an earthly Kingdom

(2) The sower of good seed represents the Lord Jesus Christ

(3) The sower of bad seed represents Satan, the King of Babylon

(4) The "Word of the Kingdom" (the seed) is the Gospel
of the New Testament

(5) The "field" represents the world, as the Gospel goes forth
to both Jew and Gentile

(6) The "fruit" of the field (both wheat and tares) represents
the (3rd) "Kingdom of Heaven"

(7) The "Word of the Kingdom" gathers good fish and bad fish
during the (3rd) Christian Kingdom

(8) The (saved) "wheat" and the (unsaved) "tares" LOOK similar,
and grow together until the end-of-the-age

(9) At the end-of-the-age, the "wheat and tares" (good fish/bad fish) are separated in the "Final Harvest"

--------------------------


.

BABerean2 said:

How many people could be truly "born-again" of the Spirit of God, and yet be a tare?
.

Click to expand...

You have just built a STRAWMAN... and that proves nothing
(a) except you are willing to be LESS than honest or (b) you
are not able to discern between the earthly "church" and the
heavenly "church".

Do you REALLY think that everybody who goes to the church
on the corner is one of the eternally saved "wheat"? Of course not.
And yet that is the basis of your STRAWMAN argument above.

We already KNOW that not everyone going to the church on the
corner is "born again"... so you only embarrass yourself when you
PRETEND otherwise.

And WHY do you pretend otherwise?

If is because you want to REJECT all the SCRIPTURES where
Jesus specifically NAMES different earthly "Kingdoms of Heaven"

You feel your gospel is THREATENED by the Words of Christ
and so you look to build a STRAWMAN to allow you to REJECT
and intentionally IGNORE passages you do not like... instead
of just incorporating the Words of Jesus into you gospel.

Good luck with that plan.

.

nolidad said:

Jesus knows more than all of us combined and he never called the tares the church!

Click to expand...

Then explain this:

Will you PRETEND this passage is talking about heaven?
Do you really think there are unsaved "tares" in heaven?
Really"

Or will you just REJECT the Words of Christ in order to
protect your current "gospel"?

Remember, you are KNOWN by your "fruit"

Mat 13:24-30
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,
The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed
good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came
and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But
when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then
appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder
came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed
in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them,
An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou
then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while
ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time
of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together
first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them:
but gather the wheat into my barn.


.

5thKingdom said:

You have just built a STRAWMAN... and that proves nothing
(a) except you are willing to be LESS than honest or (b) you
are not able to discern between the earthly "church" and the
heavenly "church".

Do you REALLY think that everybody who goes to the church
on the corner is one of the eternally saved "wheat"? Of course not.
And yet that is the basis of your STRAWMAN argument above.

We already KNOW that not everyone going to the church on the
corner is "born again"... so you only embarrass yourself when you
PRETEND otherwise.

And WHY do you pretend otherwise?

If is because you want to REJECT all the SCRIPTURES where
Jesus specifically NAMES different earthly "Kingdoms of Heaven"

You feel your gospel is THREATENED by the Words of Christ
and so you look to build a STRAWMAN to allow you to REJECT
and intentionally IGNORE passages you do not like... instead
of just incorporating the Words of Jesus into you gospel.

Good luck with that plan.

.

Click to expand...

Have you ever considered that those who are truly born-again of the Spirit of God, as found in Romans 8:9, and Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27, speak to other believers in a certain way, even when we disagree?

[STAFF EDITED]

.

.

BABerean2 said:

Have you ever considered that those who are truly born-again of the Spirit of God, as found in Romans 8:9, and Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27, speak to other believers in a certain way, even when we disagree?

Have you ever had an inferiority complex?

.

.

Click to expand...

I asked you a simple question:
Do you really believe that everyone who attends the corner church
is really "born again".

Instead of answering the question you DEFLECTED to a different
question which ASSUMES that everybody on this forum is really
a saved "wheat". And you gave no REASON for that assumption.

So you have now built another STRAWMAN.

I cannot (and should not be expected to) respond to
STRAWMAN arguments. So you should not present them.

Instead of talking about an inferiority complex why do you
not simply ADDRESS the subject we were talking about?

Namely:
Did Jesus specifically NAME different "Kingdoms of Heaven"
on earth (yes or no)?

If you are not willing to stick to the discussion...
why do you think that accusing ME of having an
inferiority complex is an appropriate response?

I gave you several verses where JESUS specifically
NAMED different "Kingdoms of Heaven" on earth...
are you going to address that subject or only
insult me?

.

5thKingdom said:

I gave you several verses where JESUS specifically
NAMED different "Kingdoms of Heaven" on earth...
are you going to address that subject or only
insult me?

Click to expand...

The insults are not coming from my direction...

I find one kingdom of heaven below, which is described in different ways.

"The kingdom of heaven is like..."



Mat_3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat_5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Mat_5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Mat_5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat_5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat_7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat_8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat_10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat_11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Mat_11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Mat_13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Mat_13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Mat_13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Mat_13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Mat_13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

Mat_13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

Mat_13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

Mat_13:52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

Mat_16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mat_18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

Mat_18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat_18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat_18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

Mat_19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Mat_19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Mat_19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat_20:1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

Mat_22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Mat_25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Mat_25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.


.

Timtofly said:

This is all well and good. It gave the church hope for 1900 years. It WAS the spiritual application.

Click to expand...

What was truth never ceases to be truth.

Timtofly said:

Can you imagine the Pharisees arguing how 12 Jewish males represented the whole of the OT saints, one disciple from each tribe?

Click to expand...

A Pharisee would be of less than no legitimacy regarding the Church.

Timtofly said:

Why are we arguing today?

Click to expand...

Is the vast multitude of Christ's Church of the all-ethnic redeemed men, women, boys, and girls of the ages vs. 144,00-only Jewish-only celibate-only men-only worth discussing?

jgr said:

What was truth never ceases to be truth.
A Pharisee would be of less than no legitimacy regarding the Church.
Is the vast multitude of Christ's Church of the all-ethnic redeemed men, women, boys, and girls of the ages vs. 144,00-only Jewish-only celibate-only men-only worth discussing?

Click to expand...

Is Satan worth discussing?