Was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Andre_b said:

Lol yes exactly, I don't see where love doesn't include the law. The law is what RIGHTEOUSNESS IS, ITS WHAT LOVE IS. You are the one that doesn't understand.

Psalm 119:141-147 "I am small and despised: yet do not I forget thy precepts. 142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth. 143 Trouble and anguish have taken hold on me: yet thy commandments are my delights. 144 The righteousness of thy testimonies is everlasting: give me understanding, and I shall live. 145. I cried with my whole heart; hear me, O LORD: I will keep thy statutes.

Jesus is also called the truth. Interesting parallel. Was Jesus lying when he said the Sabbath was made for mankind. He then immediately abolishes it not long after? But I thought he said I came not to abolish?

You say we arent under the law then why do you try to keep the law of love?

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Christ fulfilled the Righteousness in which the law and Prophets testify... Matthew 3:15...Jesus replied, " Let it be so now, it is proper for us to do this to Fulfill All Righteousness....
So it gives you an idea that Righteousness from the law wasn't fulfilled prior to Jesus..
Unless you think He didn't accomplished it...

Andre_b said:

I thought Jesus said I didn't come to abolish?

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Yes, He did say that. You omitted the rest of that verse.

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

To fulfill the law is what Jesus did. Jesus arrived to fulfill the entire law and prophets. If Jesus did not fulfill the LAW then the entire law is still effective.

The commandments are a summary of God's law.

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Not the ten commandments, the ten commandments do not summarize the law. Jesus said;

Matthew 22:36-40
Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

Matthew 7:12
In everything, therefore, treat people (love) the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

See, loving others is what God demands and that is what you are empowered to do. You are not given the fruit of the Holy Spirit so that you do not covet donkeys.

Read the difference between a covenant and a law. Moses was the ministration of the 10 commandments, it's now Jesus that ministers the law, that's why some changes have come into the new covenant.

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Some changes you say. Let's be completely honest with each other.

Have you annulled 600 laws or not, tell me honestly?

Some change to the law you say????

The new covenant still has the blood sacrifice to atone for our sins, the lamb is now Jesus, etc. The law is still there, certains part of it have changed on how they are applied/ministered. Hence the new covenant.

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What a confused understanding you have of the scripture.

John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

You will not be judged because you believe in Jesus.

Unless of course you oppose what Jesus just said!

klutedavid said:

What is your preoccupation with homosexuality all about? There are a stack of other sexual sins which count as sexual immorality. It is as if homosexuality is the greatest sin out there.

The Holy Spirit is poured into your heart and love is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Do you really think that God wrote do not covet that donkey, into your heart?

I honestly thought that the fruit of the Holy Spirit are below.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Your telling me that what is written on the heart by God is; do not covet that donkey? You have a serious problem with the way you read the scripture.

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Please stop being arrogant. I SAID IT WAS AN E X A M P L E. It's not the only one. I gave you an EXAMPLE how people will use the word love to mean something that it IS NOT. This is what you are doing with the word love. Just bec You say you love doesn't mean it's the truth. God defines love WHICH INCLUDES THE COMMANDMENTS.

Yes you do have a serious problem the way you read scriptures, you think coveting is coveting a donkey. Continuing in your logic again, you don't obey the first commandment to worship only God since you weren't in Egypt? So the commandment of the father to believe in Jesus doesn't apply to you since you weren't in Egypt. So you don't keep the first commandment?

It's interesting how you change the subject so much to avoid the truth and need to result in mocking instead.

pasifika said:

Paul quote the commandment of Love from OT..But that is Not where it originally proclaim and John state in 1 John 3:11,12..For this is the message you've heard from the Beginning: We should Love one Another. Do not be like Cain, who belong to the evil one and murder his brother...

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Exactly he broke the commandment of do not murder. You love avoiding the commandments. Yet the commandments are what love is. If the commandments are not love then they are evil? It's either one or the other.

klutedavid said:

Yes, He did say that. You omitted the rest of that verse.

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

To fulfill the law is what Jesus did. Jesus arrived to fulfill the entire law and prophets. If Jesus did not fulfill the LAW then the entire law is still effective.Not the ten commandments, the ten commandments do not summarize the law. Jesus said;

Matthew 22:36-40
Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

Matthew 7:12
In everything, therefore, treat people (love) the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

See, loving others is what God demands and that is what you are empowered to do. You are not given the fruit of the Holy Spirit so that you do not covet donkeys.Some changes you say. Let's be completely honest with each other.

Have you annulled 600 laws or not, tell me honestly?

Some change to the law you say????
What a confused understanding you have of the scripture.

John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

You will not be judged because you believe in Jesus.

Unless of course you oppose what Jesus just said!

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Matthew 22:36-40 Jesus was quoting the Old Testament. So exactly the point the law of God is part of that love. Are you going to deny that Jesus quotes the Old Testament to love God and your neighbour? The quote to love God was said after requoting the 10 commandments in Deuteronomy.

You need a definition AGAIN:
Definition of fulfill: late Old English fullfyllan ‘fill up, make full’
What does fill up mean? Or will you ignore this?

Jesus talked about many laws and commandments, ordinances, covenants, etc. You are confused about them and lump them all together.

pasifika said:

Christ fulfilled the Righteousness in which the law and Prophets testify... Matthew 3:15...Jesus replied, " Let it be so now, it is proper for us to do this to Fulfill All Righteousness....
So it gives you an idea that Righteousness from the law wasn't fulfilled prior to Jesus..
Unless you think He didn't accomplished it...

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Oh I know he did, he also didn't abolish it like you are claiming. I don't believe he abolish the law like you claim he did, which you are contradicting Jesus if you believe this.

klutedavid said:

Some change to the law you say????
What a confused understanding you have of the scripture.

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So are you saying that Jesus is not the lamb who atones for our sins like in the lamb in Old Testament? He's not our high priest in the heavenly sanctuary which replaces the earthly one? Why would you need atonement for sins in the law doesn't exist? Or right the law doesn't exist once you believe. The law no longer condemns you to hell, because of Jesus is our lamb, the law is still there to obey or else you have lawlessness. Except you twist the meaning of the words and the laws.

Andre_b said:

Exactly he broke the commandment of do not murder. You love avoiding the commandments. Yet the commandments are what love is. If the commandments are not love then they are evil? It's either one or the other.

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Murder does Not come because you love that person...
1John 3:15..Anyone who does Not Love remains in death...
1John 3:15..We know that we have have passed from death to life, because we love each other...
1John 3:10..This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does Not do what is right is Not Gods child Nor is anyone who does Not love their brother or sister...

Andre_b said:

Oh I know he did, he also didn't abolish it like you are claiming. I don't believe he abolish the law like you claim he did, which you are contradicting Jesus if you believe this.

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Did i ever mention the word "abolished " in my post or fulfilled?...are you a false witness now?

Andre_b said:

So are you saying that Jesus is not the lamb who atones for our sins like in the lamb in Old Testament? He's not our high priest in the heavenly sanctuary which replaces the earthly one? Why would you need atonement for sins in the law doesn't exist? Or right the law doesn't exist once you believe. The law no longer condemns you to hell, because of Jesus is our lamb, the law is still there to obey or else you have lawlessness. Except you twist the meaning of the words and the laws.

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We have the Holy Spirit to teach and show us all truth..so we serve in the new way of the Spirit Not of the written code..Romans 7:6

You have to understand the word "Believe" meant in the bible...God so love the world that He gave His Only Son whoever Believes in Him will Not perish But have eternal life...

pasifika said:

Murder does Not come because you love that person...
1John 3:15..Anyone who does Not Love remains in death...
1John 3:15..We know that we have have passed from death to life, because we love each other...
1John 3:10..This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does Not do what is right is Not Gods child Nor is anyone who does Not love their brother or sister...

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That's what I said. Love = commandments. Not complicated. Murder is not following the commandments, it's also not love.

pasifika said:

We have the Holy Spirit to teach and show us all truth..so we serve in the new way of the Spirit Not of the written code..Romans 7:6

You have to understand the word "Believe" meant in the bible...God so love the world that He gave His Only Son whoever Believes in Him will Not perish But have eternal life...

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The Holy Spirit indeed does show us the truth. What is the truth?
Psalm 119:142 "...thy law is the truth"
They go hand in hand. You avoid the law though because you don't believe it's the truth? You don't believe it's love?

Yes you also need to understand the word "believe"
James 2:19 "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!"

pasifika said:

Did i ever mention the word "abolished " in my post or fulfilled?...are you a false witness now?

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You keep claiming the Ten Commandments are not to be followed hence abolished, correct?

HARK! said:

The homosexuality example makes Christians think. Most are quick to point out that homosexuality is an abomination; but many of them will claim that we are not under the law, even if we don't keep the law. Even the ones who say the we are compelled to keep the Decalogue, can't point to a law in the Decalogue that prohibits homosexuality.

Clearly it is sin. It is decried from before Moses, and after Yahshua's ascension.

Sin is transgression of the law.

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Doesn't homosexuality really fall into the category of adultery? Adultery is fornicating outside of marriage which is between a man and a woman.

It's also included in the category that explains adultery in Leviticus 20

HARK! said:

The homosexuality example makes Christians think.

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Think about what? Why the obsession with homosexuals. Why not anything about marrying a divorced person? That is forbidden by Jesus.

Matthew 19:9
And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.

Most are quick to point out that homosexuality is an abomination; but many of them will claim that we are not under the law, even if we don't keep the law.

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As far as I can see, the opposite is true Hark. The churches that follow legalism are the one's pointing the finger. The Pharisees were experts in the law and they enforced the law.

Even the ones who say the we are compelled to keep the Decalogue, can't point to a law in the Decalogue that prohibits homosexuality.

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Of course not, they just say 'do not commit adultery' covers homosexuality.

Clearly it is sin. It is decried from before Moses, and after Yahshua's ascension.

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Yes it is.

Where does the law say that drunkenness or gambling is a sin?

Sin is transgression of the law.

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There are other definitions of sin also and we pay due care to them.

Romans 14:23
...and whatever is not from faith is sin.

Andre_b said:

Doesn't homosexuality really fall into the category of adultery? Adultery is fornicating outside of marriage which is between a man and a woman.

It's also included in the category that explains adultery in Leviticus 20

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The words 'adultery' and 'homosexuality' mean different things. They are separate sins and are described differently in the scripture.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals...

Two distinct and different sins.

klutedavid said:

Think about what? Why the obsession with homosexuals. Why not anything about marrying a divorced person? That is forbidden by Jesus.

Matthew 19:9
And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.As far as I can see, the opposite is true Hark. The churches that follow legalism are the one's pointing the finger. The Pharisees were experts in the law and they enforced the law.Of course not, they just say 'do not commit adultery' covers homosexuality.Yes it is.

Where does the law say that drunkenness or gambling is a sin?There are other definitions of sin also and we pay due care to them.

Romans 14:23
...and whatever is not from faith is sin.

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I thought Jesus said he came to FULFILL the law. Do I have to explain what this means again? When the KJV was written, fulfill meant To fill full; fill to the utmost capacity; fill up. It says it in the word itself, full fill. The original English definition.

Didn't Jesus continue to give more deeper spiritual insights?

Isn't gambling a love of money instead of loving God? Indeed breaking the commandments.

klutedavid said:

The words 'adultery' and 'homosexuality' mean different things. They are separate sins and are described differently in the scripture.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals...

Two distinct and different sins.

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Of course they are different but in a CATEGORY AND SUMMARIZED INTO ONE MAIN ONE, FORNICATION or ADULTER WHICH. IS FORNICATION OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE

So worshiping a horse and worshipping a statue doesn't fall into the category of idolatry? You really hate the commandments don't you and try to avoid them.