Senate Democrats block much needed relief to working families.

hislegacy said:

What about the billions of dollars the Democrats are adding to the bill that have absolutely nothing to do with helping people effected by this crisis, but are funding pet projects they can’t get funded?

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I'm going to echo what others have said here. You just said the billions the GoP wanted were minute and in the very same thread attacked the Democratic party for the exact same thing. I have, like others here, seen you over the years attack the Democrats and Obama for pork spending and yet you're fine with the GoP doing it. I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or just so deeply authoritarian that all you really care about is "winning" and feeling in charge. Most genuine hypocrites aren't nearly this obvious and brazen about it.

Foamhead said:

I'm going to echo what others have said here. You just said the billions the GoP wanted were minute and in the very same thread attacked the Democratic party for the exact same thing. I have, like others here, seen you over the years attack the Democrats and Obama for pork spending and yet you're fine with the GoP doing it.

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Oh, please. Every news service has described the Coronovirus outbreak as a once in a century event or an emergency of unprecedented dimensions.

So it's not as though it is just the same as the very localized disease outbreaks that occurred during the Obama years or the Swine flu, etc. Obama himself went golfing during those events--that's not the case with our president now who has been reporting to the nation daily and has assembled the best of the medical, industrial, financial, and political leadership in order to combat the crisis.

Albion said:

Oh, please. Every news service has described the Coronovirus outbreak as a once in a century event or an emergency of unprecedented dimensions.

So it's not as though it is just the same as the very localized disease outbreaks that occurred during the Obama years or the Swine flu, etc. Obama himself went golfing during those events--that's not the case with our president now who has been reporting to the nation daily and has assembled the best of the medical, industrial, financial, and political leadership in order to combat the crisis.

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I’m fairly sure you don’t want to open up the ‘golfer in chief’ comparisons.

Trump Plays Golf While Coronavirus Cases Surge

Albion said:

Oh, please. Every news service has described the Coronovirus outbreak as a once in a century event or an emergency of unprecedented dimensions.

So it's not as though it is just the same as the very localized disease outbreaks that occurred during the Obama years or the Swine flu, etc. Obama himself went golfing during those events--that's not the case with our president now who has been reporting to the nation daily and has assembled the best of the medical, industrial, financial, and political leadership in order to combat the crisis.

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huh? The "exact same thing" in question here is pushing for money for things the party likes.

But on the subject of once-in-a-century events, you may have forgotten about this little thiing that kicked off just before Obama took office:
Great Recession - Wikipedia

As I poke around CF, I see lots of examples of you complaining about government debt under Obama's tenure, much of which stemmed directly or indirectly from the Great Recession. There's even a good one where you complain about "Obama's cronies" at Solyndra getting a huge windfall. This new stimulus bill is over twice as large (even adjusting for inflation) as the one Obama signed in 2009 and the original version had little-to-no oversight over a slush fund ~900 times larger than what Solyndra got. Have you changed your tune in the last 10 years or is your main concern really just who's signing the checks?

Albion said:

That's patently untrue. Some items may be in that category although you have no way of knowing, but many are clearly just gimmicks that advance the fortunes of those guys' political party--

• nationwide mandate for ballot harvesting
• An expansion of foreign-language ballots
• Same-day voter registration for the 2020 presidential election

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If I ever got to the point where I was complaining about making it easier for citizens to participate in our elections, I'd have to wonder where things went terribly wrong.

Albion said:

That's patently untrue. Some items may be in that category although you have no way of knowing, but many are clearly just gimmicks that advance the fortunes of those guys' political party--

• nationwide mandate for ballot harvesting
• An expansion of foreign-language ballots
• Same-day voter registration for the 2020 presidential election
• amnesty for DACA illegals now living in the USA

Only because they lost the public relations war when so many citizens and voters were outraged at this game-playing on the part of Pelosi and her followers while millions of Americans are out of work, cannot meet their bills, and are in immediate need!

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I support those things.

and they hardly lost, they got way more in the bill for us by holding out a few days. You don’t seem to get how negotiations work.

so, do you think the bill is better now for working class people than the last version, or not?

Fine Print of Stimulus Bill Contains Special Deals for Industries

Looks like both sides managed to get some of their pet projects in.

Sparagmos said:

I support those things.

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Which is fair--but just not in this bill which addresses a national emergency.

There is no reason that those extraneous issues couldn't be addressed in a separate bill...except that Pelosi/Schumer thought that holding the Senate and the American people hostage while deaths are mounting would work for them. That tactic is shameful.

Albion said:

Which is fair--but just not in this bill which addresses a national emergency.

There is no reason that those extraneous issues couldn't be addressed in a separate bill...except that Pelosi/Schumer thought that holding the Senate and the American people hostage while deaths are mounting would work for them. That tactic is shameful.

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1.) Those projects weren’t the primary differences between the bills.
2.) I guess you missed my link that shows that Republicans stuck some of their things in there, too.

iluvatar5150 said:

1.) Those projects weren’t the primary differences between the bills.

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I believe they were, if we judge by everything that the Senators and the non-Senator Pelosi pointed to as the critical issues.

Albion said:

I believe they were, if we judge by everything that the Senators and the non-Senator Pelosi pointed to as the most difficult stumbling blocks in the bill.

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Really? Because I heard Democrats saying they were pushing for oversight of the slush fund and stronger safeguards for workers. It was only a couple Republicans who said the fight was over airline fuel efficiency or newspaper pensions. Got any links to Dems saying those were the big holdups?

iluvatar5150 said:

But on the subject of once-in-a-century events, you may have forgotten about this little thiing that kicked off just before Obama took office:
Great Recession - Wikipedia

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All I said was that this emergency has been called a once-in-a-century thing.

That wasn't my own assessment; but I mentioned this by way of pointing out that it is a very serious, very dangerous, turn of events and is widely understood to be such.

As I poke around CF, I see lots of examples of you complaining about government debt under Obama's tenure, much of which stemmed directly or indirectly from the Great Recession.

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I just don't care for hypocrisy. And as I poke around CF, I see countless cheap shots at President Trump by posters who have no concern when President Obama did either the same thing...or else worse. They constantly represent whatever it is with Trump as being unprecedented.

To the extent that you think I have been an opponent of such hypocrisy, that probably owes to the fact that fairness is big with me. Because there are more people here on CF whose sole interest is in lobbing cheap shots at Trump than there are people willing to put the record straight, there should be some at least (and I am not the only one) to keep up some degree of balance.

Albion said:

All I said was that this emergency has been called a once-in-a-century thing.

That wasn't my own assessment; but I mentioned this by way of pointing out that it is a very serious, very dangerous, turn of events and is widely understood to be such.

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...and you tried to minimize the scope of the problems Obama faced. No, he didn’t face a pandemic this large, but he did face an economic crisis this large.

I just don't care for hypocrisy. And as I poke around CF, I see countless cheap shots at President Trump by posters who have no concern when President Obama did either the same thing...or else worse. They constantly represent whatever it is with Trump as being unprecedented.

To the extent that you think I have been an opponent of such hypocrisy, that probably owes to the fact that fairness is big with me. Because there are more people here on CF whose sole interest is in lobbing cheap shots at Trump than there are people willing to put the record straight, there should be some at least (and I am not the only one) to keep up some degree of balance.

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So you’re trying to create balance against what you perceive as bogus cheap shots against the president by levying your own bogus cheap shots against Democrats?

I don’t believe that’s your rationale because I’ve been watching you make these sorts of comments since well before Trump was even a candidate.

Albion said:

Which is fair--but just not in this bill which addresses a national emergency.

There is no reason that those extraneous issues couldn't be addressed in a separate bill...except that Pelosi/Schumer thought that holding the Senate and the American people hostage while deaths are mounting would work for them. That tactic is shameful.

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They ended up getting a lot more by demanding more. It is a negotiation and no one was held hostage. What they did will not mean people’s checks come any later. Everything Pelosi put in their benefits regular people. I’ll be looking for your posts criticizing republicans for the same thing. Both sides do it and if you only criticize one side then it’s hard to take seriously.

like I asked - do you think the final package includes more benefits for working class people or less than before?

Sparagmos said:

They ended up getting a lot more by demanding more. It is a negotiation and no one was held hostage.

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You apparently see it that way because, I am guessing, you favor whatever they wrung out of the legislators who felt an understandable sense of urgency.

Other than for that rather callous approach to the matter, I can see nothing that makes the tactic UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES be respectable. And it certainly is not routine operating procedure in the Senate.

Albion said:

You apparently see it that way because, I am guessing, you favor whatever they wrung out of the legislators who felt an understandable sense of urgency.

Other than for that rather callous approach to the matter, I can see nothing that makes the tactic UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES be respectable. And it certainly is not routine operating procedure in the Senate.

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What they “wrung out” was more money and protections for American workers! And as I said, it didn’t delay the relief at all! They got MORE for Americans and you’re calling it a bad tactic? Whose side are you on?

Sparagmos said:

What they “wrung out” was more money and protections for American workers!

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If you insist upon ignoring everything else about this matter, you are far from responding to what I wrote. Sorry.

Albion said:

If you insist upon ignoring everything else about this matter, you are far from responding to what I wrote. Sorry.

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I’m all over what’s in this bill because I represent 1,200 laid off workers. The final version is far better for them than it was 3 days ago. You haven’t answered my repeated question on that matter. Is the final version better or worse for American workers?

Sparagmos said:

I’m all over what’s in this bill because I represent 1,200 laid off workers.

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Okay. You have a particular interest.

But I was addressing other things about the bill, mainly the tactics used by the Pelosi/Schumer faction to have it's way.

iluvatar5150 said:

Did you find the windmills in that bill yet?

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There is a man from la Mancha looking into this as we speak.