Beware of Pre-Tribbers Doomsday Hype

~Cassia~ said:

Commenting on the Galileeian wedding custom. 12:00 - 21:00

It’s interesting that when the Father took Eve (signified by the church) from Adam’s side that He then brought her to Adam and Adam accepted her with the words of recognition as to flesh and blood mutuality.

The Galilean wedding with the bride given the same option to accept shows the bridegroom, after acceptance, signifying he will return them both to the Father. Very touching scenes being played out within that ceremony alone.

Click to expand...

I agree. A very enlightening video.

JacksBratt said:

I agree. A very enlightening video.

Click to expand...

That to me that 10 min was the crux of the film and the rest I considered propaganda to sell the film and promote an agenda. But worth the watch anyway.

Davy said:

Now, put that into your little paradigm, because I'm preparing brethren to remain FAITHFUL to Christ Jesus, to wait on Him, and remain "a chaste virgin" for Him!

Click to expand...

I plan to do the same, until my death or the rapture. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Davy said:

You really... need a wake up call!

My Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ are my Authority, it's called keeping His Word of Truth as written! Ought to try it sometime, because commentators and men's traditions ain't always correct.

Click to expand...

Ya, that's it... you are following the model of Jesus.. right to the letter.. Not.

I don't need a wake up call... you do... Do you know how many people have bragged about how right they are.. and were wrong? People just like you.

Hey... I may be wrong.. you may be right... Some day we'll all know and, at that time, we will be able to share a laugh at our mistaken ideas and views.

Until then... you have your view... I have mine. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Davy said:

Another news flash, it's the DOCTRINE OF A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE that I am speaking against! Lindsey, LaHaye, and the rest of the thousands of preachers out there that preach OUGHT to feel guilty for preaching such a false doctrine. Now, put that into your little paradigm, because I'm preparing brethren to remain FAITHFUL to Christ Jesus, to wait on Him, and remain "a chaste virgin" for Him!

Click to expand...

So, a thousand preachers.. men and women who went to school and have diplomas in the study of the scriptures... trusted to the point that they have flocks and parishioners and get "paid" to teach the word of God... thousands...

But.. "Internet Davy" has the drop on them.. He's right... they're wrong...

RighteeeeeeOH.


By the way... did you ever tell me what you plan to do when you have no money, no job, no possessions, no place to hide, no place to run, no place to sleep and everyone is after you to turn you in? For 3.5 to 7 years?

So to pre tribbers, are most of you getting your doctrine from outside the bible (such as wedding customs etc) with your one scriptural justification of your doctrine being Thessalonians?
Because to me Thessalonians agrees with pre wrath but mid trib.
To me it's important to separate the tribulations (which are acts of men and Satan) vs the wrath of God (acts of God Himself) to see that God would spare us HIS wrath but allow evil to have its season on earth and make war with the saints and prevail (temporarily). To me it seems like it doesn't make sense to have the beast make war with the saints and prevail if all the saints have been raptured ahead of time.

Jamdoc said:

So to pre tribbers, are most of you getting your doctrine from outside the bible (such as wedding customs etc) with your one scriptural justification of your doctrine being Thessalonians?
Because to me Thessalonians agrees with pre wrath but mid trib.
To me it's important to separate the tribulations (which are acts of men and Satan) vs the wrath of God (acts of God Himself) to see that God would spare us HIS wrath but allow evil to have its season on earth and make war with the saints and prevail (temporarily). To me it seems like it doesn't make sense to have the beast make war with the saints and prevail if all the saints have been raptured ahead of time.

Click to expand...

I don't know where you get your information, but I get the bulk of my timing info from Revelation 12:1-8, 1 Corinthians 15:52 and Isaiah 26:17-21, but correlating passages would include 1 Thessalonians 5:2-4 and Micah 4:9-10, but those are not primary passages concerning timing, more of a secondary nature.

Maybe the actual truth is that you don't know anything about pretrib if you think there is only one passage.

SeventyOne said:

I don't know where you get your information, but I get the bulk of my timing info from Revelation 12:1-8, 1 Corinthians 15:52 and Isaiah 26:17-21, but correlating passages would include 1 Thessalonians 5:2-4 and Micah 4:9-10, but those are not primary passages concerning timing, more of a secondary nature.

Maybe the actual truth is that you don't know anything about pretrib if you think there is only one passage.

Click to expand...

Revelation 12 doesn't seem to have anything regarding rapture timing. Revelation 6 to me does, combined with Matthew 24.
1 Corinthians 15:52 and Isaiah 26 is about the resurrection, and it could be used to support rapture, but not necessarily pre-trib.
1 Thessalonians 5 to me talks about watching and waiting for the day of the Lord. So that it doesn't overtake us as a thief in the night. Not that it will come as a thief in the night to us, and the signs Jesus told us to watch and wait for are in Matthew 24. I particularly want to point out Matthew 24:29

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Click to expand...

It supports post trib, pre wrath. That's the exact timing given in Revelation 6. We should be watching for Jerusalem to be surrounded by enemies, the abomination of desolation, and the time when we can neither buy or sell unless we have some sort of mark or oath that we have to take to get the means to buy or sell. When THAT happens, we will know, Jesus is coming for us very soon, then Luke 21:28

Jamdoc said:

Revelation 12 doesn't seem to have anything regarding rapture timing. Revelation 6 to me does, combined with Matthew 24.
1 Corinthians 15:52 and Isaiah 26 is about the resurrection, and it could be used to support rapture, but not necessarily pre-trib.
1 Thessalonians 5 to me talks about watching and waiting for the day of the Lord. So that it doesn't overtake us as a thief in the night. Not that it will come as a thief in the night to us, and the signs Jesus told us to watch and wait for are in Matthew 24. I particularly want to point out Matthew 24:29

It supports post trib, pre wrath. That's the exact timing given in Revelation 6. We should be watching for Jerusalem to be surrounded by enemies, the abomination of desolation, and the time when we can neither buy or sell unless we have some sort of mark or oath that we have to take to get the means to buy or sell. When THAT happens, we will know, Jesus is coming for us very soon, then Luke 21:28

Click to expand...

While I appreciate the random 30-second review and exegesis as much as the next guy, I'll be bypassing your opinions in favor of something more truthful.

SeventyOne said:

While I appreciate the random 30-second review and exegesis as much as the next guy, I'll be bypassing your opinions in favor of something more truthful.

Click to expand...

More hopeful maybe
more wishful thinking maybe
more truthful? No That's just an opinion as well.
Nowhere in the scripture you provided mentioned anything about rapture being pretrib

JacksBratt said:

Thanks for the great posts

Click to expand...

You're welcome! I have a great TEACHER,who inspired a great Book!

Davy said:

My actual point isn't which churches use them and which ones don't. My point is they are not Biblically based, so why would any true believer want to even read or watch something that goes 'against' God's Word, and be so gullible to believe it does align with God's Word?

Click to expand...

Do you read anything (even a magazine) that goes against God's Word? The authors clearly said these are wroks of fictiona nd to be read as such! God isn't sitting with lighteneing bolts waiting to zap someone who reads them for enjoyment. And if chjurches actually teaching them in Sunday school wasn't your point- why did you write it? That seems like a very powerful accusation that you didn't even mean!

And th epoint of discussion is that they believe in a pre trib raptue which IMNSHO is the only biblical way to look at the rapture. That is the point of these discussions! because we disagree!

Davy said:

There is no such idea as "tribulation saints" written in God's Word. That is an idea the pre-trib rapture school made up. The elect and saints of Matthew 24:23-31 is about Christ's Church, not Jews that suddenly convert to Jesus during the tribulation. In the Rev.7 chapter, the 144,000 represent children of Israel that are 'sealed' in Christ Jesus in prep for the tribulation. The "great multitude" in that chapter represent the 'sealed' of the Gentiles.

Click to expand...

YOur wrongness descends so many levels.

In th emillenial kingdom, OT saints hold a different place than the tribulation saints who hold a different place than the church which is th e bride of Christ which you have in heaven getting married while jesus is on earth after he snatches them off the earth a couple of minnutes before He lands on earth!

WE have reached a place of uslelessness. Have the last word and we shall meet I am sure on another thread where you shall trurn chapters so the end is the beginning and the beginning is the end of the chapter and so oon.

Have the last word! TTFN.

Davy said:

So you can mouth hot air all you want, but it's obvious you are not sticking to what is actually written there, but instead heed a false doctrine of man!

Click to expand...

I shall let the Lord HImself Judge between thee and me!

Jamdoc said:

More hopeful maybe
more wishful thinking maybe
more truthful? No That's just an opinion as well.
Nowhere in the scripture you provided mentioned anything about rapture being pretrib

Click to expand...

It's obvious you've studied out the matter in those scriptures extensively in the 30 seconds you sacrificed to review them. Please, stop. You haven't invested any time into knowing what you are talking about. This is just foolishness on your part.

Luke 21: "There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."

Matthew 24: "....immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky...."

Davy said:

[In Luke] all that is just PRIOR to Christ's return. It's about the "sorrows" and the tribulation. But the event of the "powers of heaven shall be shaken", THAT event is about the event of Christ's coming on the "day of the Lord"....Matthew 24 makes a distinction between those two timings also, i.e., what is to happen during the tribulation, and then what is to happen at the end, or immediately after the tribulation.

Click to expand...

I don't see where you're getting the distinction from. Two things puzzle me here:

1) You say in Luke Jesus is talking about what happens just prior to Jesus' return, and then He returns....whereas in Matthew he's talking about what happens just prior to His return (the tribulation), and then He returns. What's the difference? They're both about terrible things happening, and on their heels He returns.

2) About that passage in Luke you seem to be saying, unless I misunderstood you, that Jesus' description of events before His return are about sorrows and tribulation, but one of the events isn't? But there's nothing in the text to indicate that; in fact just the opposite, Jesus says "A, B, C, D, all because E"; and you want it to mean "First A, B, C, D, and later E". Why?

Davy said:

Yet there's a lot of truth in what he says, the Jewish wedding tradition is used by pre-trib saying the bride is the Church, when Christ's bride is actually Jerusalem per Revelation 21. We are the children of the bridechamber (Matt.9:15), and are to be like virgins waiting on the Bridegroom to receive her Bride (Jerusalem).

And pre-trib's teaching of the 'rapture' is specifically... the 1 Thess.4 chapter, isolating it's timing from the "last trump" of 1 Corinthians 15.

Click to expand...

The Church is the bride. the new Jerusalem is where the Church dwells. He's not marrying a city.

As for the timing, I provided more passages. He flat out dismissed them with ignorance. You're free to pretend like they don't exist as well, but it won't make them go away.