Beware of Pre-Tribbers Doomsday Hype

[Davy]

One of the things those on the false Pre-tribulational Rapture doctrine like to do to draw you into their false belief, is to present all kinds of doom and gloom events to fool you into thinking it is the end, and that Jesus is coming to suddenly rapture you out!

Thing is, that is NOT the kind of things that will be going on at the very end just prior to our Lord Jesus' coming to gather His Church. The coming tribulation at the end is to be a time of peace and safety for the deceived, not all out chaos and WWIII. See 1 Thessalonians 5 for what Apostle Paul taught on this. He showed that when 'they' say, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" will come upon them. He was talking about the events for the "day of the Lord", which happens on the LAST DAY of this present world when Jesus returns to gather His Church.

Jesus is NOT coming prior to the tribulation to gather us; He is coming immediately AFTER the tribulation to gather His Church (Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27; Revelation 16:15-17).

So forget all the Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye books and movies. They are absolute junk, not fit for the media they're printed on. Buying that junk is just padding their pockets with money. Stick to God's Word as written instead.

Isa 2:22
22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?
KJV

 

[Anthony2019]

So forget all the Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye books and movies. They are absolute junk, not fit for the media they're printed on. Buying that junk is just padding their pockets with money. Stick to God's Word as written instead.

All I remember about the film "Left Behind" was the dreadful acting.

 

[SeventyOne]

And on that note, look up for your redemption draws near. The Bridegroom will come for His Bride prior to His wrath is poured out on the earth.

Don't allow people like this to steal your hope with their lies.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Eat your daily bread with staff in hand and feet shod.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

So forget all the Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye books and movies. They are absolute junk, not fit for the media they're printed on. Buying that junk is just padding their pockets with money. Stick to God's Word as written instead.

F.Y.I. Brother Tim LaHaye is dead. May he rest in peace.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

And on that note, look up for your redemption draws near. The Bridegroom will come for His Bride prior to His wrath is poured out on the earth.

Don't allow people like this to steal your hope with their lies.

Even so, come Lord Jesus!

 

[Davy]

All I remember about the film "Left Behind" was the dreadful acting.

I work with a brother who has something like 13 books by LaHaye, and just by me showing him Bible Scripture he has never even read, he is having doubts about what he has been taught. And his father was a pre-trib rapture preacher. Will he denounce his belief on a pre-trib rapture? Probably not, but at least he will probably read the Scriptures more carefully, if he is brave enough to get down to it. Folks just don't like to mess with their comforts, and that includes a false tradition they've been taught all their life.

 

[Lady Bug]

In the Bible it seems that when Jesus comes back it will be a loud return, not a quiet secret one. The thing I can't reconcile yet is, what about the first resurrection and the second resurrection and the thousand year gap between the two resurrections as stated in Revelation?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

In the Bible it seems that when Jesus comes back it will be a loud return, not a quiet secret one. The thing I can't reconcile yet is, what about the first resurrection and the second resurrection and the thousand year gap between the two resurrections as stated in Revelation?

It will likely take that long for the earth to be restored to an Eden-like condition in preparation for the millions that will come up later. During that time those in the first resurrection will have the place all to themselves.

 

[civilwarbuff]

The coming tribulation at the end is to be a time of peace and safety for the deceived, not all out chaos and WWIII. See 1 Thessalonians 5 for what Apostle Paul taught on this. He showed that when 'they' say, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" will come upon them.

You go right ahead and believe that but it would not be much of a tribulation if it were all 'peace and safety '. It will, quite literally, be hell on earth and I can find no reason why Jesus would leave His Church here to suffer through it.....but please continue with your exegesis as it is at least somewhat entertaining......

 

[com7fy8]

to present all kinds of doom and gloom events to fool you into thinking it is the end

Not all do this. But, each year, we have had people pointing at certain events and claiming those events proved Jesus would come, that year.

But Jesus says the tribulation will be the greatest ever, in any case. And there will be "pestilences" . . . not only one pestilence . . . and these among other things.

And each year we can be told so-and-so is the anti-Christ, but each year it is a different anti-Christ. But not all do this.

Don't allow people like this to steal your hope with their lies.

Jesus Himself says He will return "immediately after the tribulation of those days", in Matthew 24. Jesus is not lying.

I do not know who or what you mean by lying. But Jesus is not lying by telling us He will return for His "elect" "immediately after the tribulation of those days". And so I tell the truth by saying that Jesus says this. I hope you do not mean that I am lying.

Also, nowhere in scripture does Jesus Himself say He will return "immediately before" the tribulation. So, I tell the truth, by saying Jesus does not directly say He will return before the trib . . . since no scripture says that Jesus says this.

And the Holy Spirit nowhere in scripture directly says Jesus will return before the tribulation. So, I tell the truth, that the Holy Spirit has not inspired Canon Scripture to directly say anything like, "Jesus will come back before the tribulation." Because no scripture directly says this.

So, I am careful to make sure people know that pre-trib is not based on a direct Biblical statement, or I am bearing false witness. Pre-trib, if it were true, would be based on imperfect people's interpretations of scripture and/or direct revelation in addition to what the Bible says, but it can not be based on an actual quote which plainly says Jesus will come before the trib.

I have checked God's word, to see if He in plain words says Jesus will come back immediately before the great tribulation. We are told to check what people say, by looking at what God's word actually does say.

So . . . what scripture actually says what you trust?

I find it interesting how we have people who claim Jesus, but they think God would not have them serving Him during the great tribulation. Because Revelation chapter seven clearly says there will be God's people serving Him during the tribulation and He will take care of them. Ones feel God's wrath judgments would hurt them, but our Heavenly Father is not like an abusive parent who hurts even one's well-behaved children. God has self control so His wrath effects only those He knows should be effected. His wrath judgments will be so well-managed that they will help to protect His children who are serving Him . . . except when, of course, He allows Satanic people to do things to God's servants.

And if Jesus receives His "elect" after the trib, this can mean those "elect" have stayed alive during the great tribulation and have not been killed by sinners and certainly not by their own Father's wrath. There will be ones still alive, even after all that. How did they get food, if they did not take the mark? I consider it could be easy > when God's wrath takes out evil people, they leave behind food and maybe children to adopt and cars or donkeys, houses or huts or caves. So, it could be they will not need money, anyway.

Because God is in control. I hope you do not mean this is a lie. So, what do you mean??

God is able to take care of us, during any situation. This is included in our hope. So, please do not let any lie keep you from having this hope of how God is able.

Jesus guarantees us, while we submit to Him in His yoke > "you will find rest for your souls," in Matthew 11:28-30. I offer that this is unconditional; Jesus guarantees this, and no circumstance has the power and authority to overthrow this . . . hope of resting in Jesus, no matter what is happening. Look at how Shadrach and Abed-Nego and Meshach were right in the fiery furnace. The wrath of that fire killed the men who threw them in there, but they rested with the LORD who was there for them. So, it is Biblical hope . . . I hope you mean this by hope . . . how we can go through anything with Jesus and we will be safe, guaranteed, as it is written >

"And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good?" (1 Peter 3:13)

And God is almighty; so His peace in us is almighty, wouldn't you say? I know God's word does not directly say this. But look at how Paul . . . in God's grace . . . could take "pleasure" in all the tribulation he suffered. I offer how God's grace for us is not inferior to the grace which Paul had. This is not about how we now are able, but how God is able to prove Himself in us, more and more as we discover and grow.

The glory is to You, O LORD.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You go right ahead and believe that but it would not be much of a tribulation if it were all 'peace and safety '. It will, quite literally, be hell on earth and I can find no reason why Jesus would leave His Church here to suffer through it.....but please continue with your exegesis as it is at least somewhat entertaining......

What's happening right now can rightly be termed "sudden", and if destruction soon follows then the prophecy is fulfilled.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The tribulation is what mankind will bring upon itself.

The day of the Lord (the Lord's Day of Revelation 1:10) is what Christ will bring to what remains of mankind.

 

[Davy]

In the Bible it seems that when Jesus comes back it will be a loud return, not a quiet secret one. The thing I can't reconcile yet is, what about the first resurrection and the second resurrection and the thousand year gap between the two resurrections as stated in Revelation?

Pretty deep question, mainly because most don't understand that when the "day of the Lord" happens, man's time in a flesh body is over.

Isa 25:6-8
6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.
7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
KJV

That is where Apostle Paul was quoting from about death being swallowed up in victory. When Paul said in 1 Cor.15 that we shall not all sleep, but we shall ALL be changed (to the spiritual body), many brethren think that applied only to those in Christ. But in reality, per that Isaiah 25 Scripture, it will apply to all nations still alive on earth being changed on that day.

Also our Lord Jesus showed in John 5:28-29, that both resurrection types for the dead happen on the day of His 2nd coming, not just the 1st resurrection of those in Christ. The wicked dead are raised to the "resurrection of damnation". That means being in the resurrection body (a spiritual body) but still being subject to the "second death", whereas those of the 1st resurrection are not subject to that second death.

What's the difference then?

The difference Paul showed in the 1 Corinthians 15:52 verse, but in the Greek using four different words. To have eternal life in Christ, we each must go through 2 changes; our body of corruption (flesh) must put on incorruption (spiritual body) AND our "this mortal" (soul) must put on immortality (eternal Life). Those of the 1st resurrection will go through both changes on the day of Christ's return, and that's about His Church. But the wicked will go through only the first change to an incorruptible resurrection body, while their souls will still be in a liable to die condition, and thus subject to the "second death".

Our Lord Jesus showed us the difference of those two conditions of the soul in Scripture like John 3, saying that we must be "born again" of The Spirit to have eternal Life. That through Faith on Him. But for those who reject Him, He gave the picture of them being like whited tombs outside but inside are full of dead men's bones (Matthew 23:27). There's a literal condition of one's soul that goes with that. One's soul can either be spiritually alive in Christ, or spiritually dead and subject to being cast into the future lake of fire.

All of that must be understood first, to properly understand about the "dead" in Rev.20.

The nations that Satan goes to tempt once he is loosed at the end of Rev.20 represent the spiritually dead. They have the spiritual body (a resurrection body), but their soul is still dead. Some of those are saved though, and will not follow Satan at the end. The way we know is simply because of mention of a FIRST resurrection.

Just mention of a 1st, implies at least one more like it. Many simply don't understand the 2nd one to be like the 1st, a 2nd resurrection of the Just in Christ Jesus at the Great White Throne Judgment. Otherwise, why are those who stand in judgment at that time after the thousand years having their names checked in the Book of Life? It is pointing to some being saved 'during' that thousand years of Christ's reign with His elect.

Our job during that "thousand years" will be to teach (if you're a priest). The unsaved will stand in judgment through that time, meaning under the rod. And they will be taught the difference between the holy and profane, the clean and the unclean. All knees will bow to The Father and The Son. Our Lord Jesus even said He will make those of the synagogue of Satan come and bow in worship to Him at our feet (Rev.3).

 

[SeventyOne]

Not all do this. But, each year, we have had people pointing at certain events and claiming those events proved Jesus would come, that year.

But Jesus says the tribulation will be the greatest ever, in any case. And there will be "pestilences" . . . not only one pestilence . . . and these among other things.

And each year we can be told so-and-so is the anti-Christ, but each year it is a different anti-Christ. But not all do this.

Jesus Himself says He will return "immediately after the tribulation of those days", in Matthew 24. Jesus is not lying.

I do not know who or what you mean by lying. But Jesus is not lying by telling us He will return for His "elect" "immediately after the tribulation of those days". And so I tell the truth by saying that Jesus says this. I hope you do not mean that I am lying.

Also, nowhere in scripture does Jesus Himself say He will return "immediately before" the tribulation. So, I tell the truth, by saying Jesus does not directly say He will return before the trib . . . since no scripture says that Jesus says this.

And the Holy Spirit nowhere in scripture directly says Jesus will return before the tribulation. So, I tell the truth, that the Holy Spirit has not inspired Canon Scripture to directly say anything like, "Jesus will come back before the tribulation." Because no scripture directly says this.

So, I am careful to make sure people know that pre-trib is not based on a direct Biblical statement, or I am bearing false witness. Pre-trib, if it were true, would be based on imperfect people's interpretations of scripture and/or direct revelation in addition to what the Bible says, but it can not be based on an actual quote which plainly says Jesus will come before the trib.

I have checked God's word, to see if He in plain words says Jesus will come back immediately before the great tribulation. We are told to check what people say, by looking at what God's word actually does say.

So . . . what scripture actually says what you trust?

I find it interesting how we have people who claim Jesus, but they think God would not have them serving Him during the great tribulation. Because Revelation chapter seven clearly says there will be God's people serving Him during the tribulation and He will take care of them. Ones feel God's wrath judgments would hurt them, but our Heavenly Father is not like an abusive parent who hurts even one's well-behaved children. God has self control so His wrath effects only those He knows should be effected. His wrath judgments will be so well-managed that they will help to protect His children who are serving Him . . . except when, of course, He allows Satanic people to do things to God's servants.

And if Jesus receives His "elect" after the trib, this can mean those "elect" have stayed alive during the great tribulation and have not been killed by sinners and certainly not by their own Father's wrath. There will be ones still alive, even after all that. How did they get food, if they did not take the mark? I consider it could be easy > when God's wrath takes out evil people, they leave behind food and maybe children to adopt and cars or donkeys, houses or huts or caves. So, it could be they will not need money, anyway.

Because God is in control. I hope you do not mean this is a lie. So, what do you mean??

God is able to take care of us, during any situation. This is included in our hope. So, please do not let any lie keep you from having this hope of how God is able.

Jesus guarantees us, while we submit to Him in His yoke > "you will find rest for your souls," in Matthew 11:28-30. I offer that this is unconditional; Jesus guarantees this, and no circumstance has the power and authority to overthrow this . . . hope of resting in Jesus, no matter what is happening. Look at how Shadrach and Abed-Nego and Meshach were right in the fiery furnace. The wrath of that fire killed the men who threw them in there, but they rested with the LORD who was there for them. So, it is Biblical hope . . . I hope you mean this by hope . . . how we can go through anything with Jesus and we will be safe, guaranteed, as it is written >

"And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good?" (1 Peter 3:13)

And God is almighty; so His peace in us is almighty, wouldn't you say? I know God's word does not directly say this. But look at how Paul . . . in God's grace . . . could take "pleasure" in all the tribulation he suffered. I offer how God's grace for us is not inferior to the grace which Paul had. This is not about how we now are able, but how God is able to prove Himself in us, more and more as we discover and grow.

The glory is to You, O LORD.

Isaiah 26 shows we are gathered before the Lord even begins to shower the earth with His wrath, and Revelation 12 shows us being raptured even before Israel flees to the wilderness for 3 1/2 years. Jesus even tells us that when we see the things even start coming on the earth, we are to pray we are worth to escape and instead stand before Him.

So yea, the interpretation that we will go through the Trib is a complete lie.

 

[Davy]

You go right ahead and believe that but it would not be much of a tribulation if it were all 'peace and safety '. It will, quite literally, be hell on earth and I can find no reason why Jesus would leave His Church here to suffer through it.....but please continue with your exegesis as it is at least somewhat entertaining......

Study Daniel 8 about the one who blasphemes, and note that connection with Rev.13:4-8 about the one who does that, and is in power for 42 months (latter 1260 days of Daniel's "one week"). He will destroy many by peace, it says, and craft will prosper in his hand.

Dan 8:23-25
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
KJV


1 Thess 5:2-4
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
KJV

Rev 11:10
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
KJV


All I can do is point you to the Scriptures, I can't make you drink.

Oh, and here's a famous one, the pre-trib preachers often leave off quoting the last part in red...

Mark 13:7
7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
KJV

The opposite... of wars and rumours of wars is a time of... peace.

It won't be a real peace, because Christ's faithful who remain in Him will be persecuted. But for the deceived and wicked, they will think it is Peace and safety like Apostle Paul said. For them it will be a chicken in every pot, the Antichrist giving them whatever they want for worshiping him.

 

[Ricky M]

The 'rapture' is easy - pray for pre-trib, prepare for post-trib, and realize that, like the arrogant farmer, it may be tonight for any one of us.

 

[Davy]

Not all do this. But, each year, we have had people pointing at certain events and claiming those events proved Jesus would come, that year.

But Jesus says the tribulation will be the greatest ever, in any case. And there will be "pestilences" . . . not only one pestilence . . . and these among other things.

The time of wars, rumors of wars, pestilences, and nation against nation, is not the tribulation time. The time prior to the actual tribulation our Lord Jesus called the "beginning of sorrows" (Matthew 24:5-8). That's where we are today.

He also showed in Matthew 24:6 that the 'end' is not yet while we still hear of wars and rumors of war. Reason is, the 'end' will be about world peace with the coming of the false Messiah playing Jesus. The whole world will worship that false one thinking he is God, excepting Christ's elect (Revelation 13:4-8). Paul taught the deceived then will be saying, "Peace and safety".

Thus the actual time of the tribulation will be at the very 'end', when all wars have stopped (because the Antichrist will have power over all). The latter 1260 days of Dan.9 is the actual tribulation. It will begin when the "abomination of desolation" is setup in Jerusalem. But 1260 days before that, the Antichrist will make the "league" of Dan.11, and that is when the fake world peace will begin.

 

[Davy]

It will likely take that long for the earth to be restored to an Eden-like condition in preparation for the millions that will come up later. During that time those in the first resurrection will have the place all to themselves.

Christ's faithful are to reign with Him, on the earth, not up in the sky.

Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV

Going against God's Word as written because of ignorance is one thing. But doing it because of wanting to keep a doctrine of man is another thing entirely, and I don't see any future in doing that.

 

[Ricky M]

Christ's faithful are to reign with Him, on the earth, not up in the sky.

Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV

Going against God's Word as written because of ignorance is one thing. But doing it because of wanting to keep a doctrine of man is another thing entirely, and I don't see any future in doing that.

But they WILL be doing more of it in the future