Beware of Pre-Tribbers Doomsday Hype

JacksBratt

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Please explain how this is a stretch? Here is what the church historian Eusebius had to say about this event:

"But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. And when those that believed in Christ had come thither from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men.

But the number of calamities which everywhere fell upon the nation at that time, the extreme misfortunes to which the inhabitants of Judea were especially subjected, the thousands of men, as well as women and children, that perished by the sword, by famine, and by other forms of death innumerable,—all these things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the cities of Judea, and the excessive sufferings endured by those that fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire,—all these things any one that wishes may find accurately described in the history written by Josephus."

Eusebius: Church History, 3.5.3-4
It's a stretch due to the simple fact that, although there have been times in history that can be squeezed and twisted and bent and spun to fit and assumed to be what this verse is talking about...

The scripture is about the end days.. the "time of the Lord".

IMO.. and that is my own opinion.. solely.... I believe it is talking of the rapture.. "harpazo" the catching up... Something that has not happened.
 
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SeventyOne

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It doesn’t matter if it is pre or aft. God says we will be under his protection during the excrement hitting the fan. No need to argue.

Except for the multitude beheaded for their testimony of Christ, of course.
 
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Apex

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It's a stretch due to the simple fact that, although there have been times in history that can be squeezed and twisted and bent and spun to fit and assumed to be what this verse is talking about...

Are you even reading my comments? You haven't directly addressed any of my points. This makes for poor dialogue.

From my observation, the group that does the most squeezing are those that attempt to make newspaper headlines fit into their eschatology. I have many pastor friends on my social media feeds that will post news articles on every earthquake and natural disaster that occurs. I often wonder if the media has become their second Bible.

Well, I'm done talking to you unless you go back and actually address my past comments. Have a good day.
 
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JacksBratt

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Are you even reading my comments? You haven't directly addressed any of my points. This makes for poor dialogue.

From my observation, the group that does the most squeezing are those that attempt to make newspaper headlines fit into their eschatology. I have many pastor friends on my social media feeds that will post news articles on every earthquake and natural disaster that occurs. I often wonder if the media has become their second Bible.

Well, I'm done talking to you unless you go back and actually address my past comments. Have a good day.
It's not that complicated.

You stated that it was not talking of a future event.. I disagree. No need to look any further than the verses past the ones that I posted. It is talking about a future event.

If you don't agree.. then there is no sense bantering back and forth. I'm not changing my view of the scripture.. Doubt if you will either.

God bless.
 
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Apex

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It's not that complicated.

You stated that it was not talking of a future event.. I disagree. No need to look any further than the verses past the ones that I posted. It is talking about a future event.

If you don't agree.. then there is no sense bantering back and forth. I'm not changing my view of the scripture.. Doubt if you will either.

God bless.

Those verses are speaking about a future event. I am not suggesting they aren't. However, this was a future event to the original audience that heard these words. They were warned to flee when they saw the Roman armies coming. The Jews stayed behind and thought God would protect them and would never allow his holy city and temple to fall. They were wrong.

This event was in the future for them, but in the past for us.
 
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Quietus

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And on that note, look up for your redemption draws near. The Bridegroom will come for His Bride prior to His wrath is poured out on the earth.

Don't allow people like this to steal your hope with their lies.
Exactly. If we all have to go through the tribulation, then what is the blessed hope to look forward to? May as well kill myself now before any of it begins.
 
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JacksBratt

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Exactly. If we all have to go through the tribulation, then what is the blessed hope to look forward to? May as well kill myself now before any of it begins.
Well, I don't think you should kill yourself.. But, I don't think we will last long here when the ball gets rolling. I guess we could be preaching the word to those who don't believe. But, that would certainly end with us losing our heads.

At least stick around and see who's right.

I doubt that the scriptures expect us to "comfort each other" with words of going through the carnage.
 
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klutedavid

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Exactly. If we all have to go through the tribulation, then what is the blessed hope to look forward to? May as well kill myself now before any of it begins.
I thought the great promise was that Jesus would return and we would marvel at His appearance in glory. That is the blessed hope and the reality that we live for.

Who cares whether I go through some trivial tribulation or not, for I will be immortal with Jesus and in His kingdom forever!
 
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JacksBratt

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I thought the great promise was that Jesus would return and we would marvel at His appearance in glory. That is the blessed hope and the reality that we live for.

Who cares whether I go through some trivial tribulation or not, for I will be immortal with Jesus and in His kingdom forever!
Firstly, if that is your "blessed hope"... that we would marvel at His appearance.. that's OK.

My "blessed hope" is that I will be removed before this carnage and enjoy the marriage, marriage feast and celebration.. and return with Him and all the saints and angels to win at Armageddon.

Secondly, if you believe that it will be some "trivial" tribulation.. I think you should check out what is going to happen... It's going to be the greatest carnage of history and if Christ does not cut it short.. life on earth would end.
 
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SeventyOne

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Exactly. If we all have to go through the tribulation, then what is the blessed hope to look forward to? May as well kill myself now before any of it begins.

The timing of the rapture points to a Pentecost date. It could be this year, maybe next, but we are living is truly unique times now. We are living in a time where there is a push for online currency, using the excuse the virus could be on our money. Economies are being brought down. Governments are in danger of collapsing. Oil prices are plummetting, which will eventually cause a war as the Russian and many Middle East economies depend on a higher and stable price of oil, and I personally think it may be the hook in the jaw that ignites the Ezekiel 38-39 war. People are pushing a virus vaccine that contains microchips to be used as biomarkers, which according to ID2020.org, would eventually be used to facilitate global buying and selling transactions (not the mark, but more of a proof of concept). The Israeli health minister is saying the cure to the virus is the coming of the Messiah. Gordon Brown is out there demanding a 'temporary' world government to combat the virus threat. Locusts are spreading from East Africa, up to Russia, and now out to China, destroying crops which will result in an enormous famine worldwide. These are three of the four horses of Revelation 6 we can see clearly heading our way. And there's probably a dozen other things I've not run across so far.

The good news is that those who are His won't be here. Jesus tells us when we start seeing these things, pray always that we are accounted worthy and escape to stand before Him instead. We are also told at the end of Isaiah 26, that we are taken prior to the time where the Lord even begins to pour His wrath out on the earth. We are told we would know the season of His return, so if it's not this year, then we are in for one wild ride until next Pentecost.

Fortunately for these people who go out of their way to kill this sure hope, if they belong to Him, they will be taken out as well.
 
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JacksBratt

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The timing of the rapture points to a Pentecost date. It could be this year, maybe next, but we are living is truly unique times now. We are living in a time where there is a push for online currency, using the excuse the virus could be on our money. Economies are being brought down. Governments are in danger of collapsing. Oil prices are plummetting, which will eventually cause a war as the Russian and many Middle East economies depend on a higher and stable price of oil, and I personally think it may be the hook in the jaw that ignites the Ezekiel 38-39 war. People are pushing a virus vaccine that contains microchips to be used as biomarkers, which according to ID2020.org, would eventually be used to facilitate global buying and selling transactions (not the mark, but more of a proof of concept). The Israeli health minister is saying the cure to the virus is the coming of the Messiah. Gordon Brown is out there demanding a 'temporary' world government to combat the virus threat. Locusts are spreading from East Africa, up to Russia, and now out to China, destroying crops which will result in an enormous famine worldwide. These are three of the four horses of Revelation 6 we can see clearly heading our way. And there's probably a dozen other things I've not run across so far.

The good news is that those who are His won't be here. Jesus tells us when we start seeing these things, pray always that we are accounted worthy and escape to stand before Him instead. We are also told at the end of Isaiah 26, that we are taken prior to the time where the Lord even begins to pour His wrath out on the earth. We are told we would know the season of His return, so if it's not this year, then we are in for one wild ride until next Pentecost.

Fortunately for these people who go out of their way to kill this sure hope, if they belong to Him, they will be taken out as well.
Great post.
 
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klutedavid

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Firstly, if that is your "blessed hope"... that we would marvel at His appearance.. that's OK.

My "blessed hope" is that I will be removed before this carnage and enjoy the marriage, marriage feast and celebration.. and return with Him and all the saints and angels to win at Armageddon.

Secondly, if you believe that it will be some "trivial" tribulation.. I think you should check out what is going to happen... It's going to be the greatest carnage of history and if Christ does not cut it short.. life on earth would end.
We reach the blessed destination regardless of these momentary afflictions and tribulations.

A few years of tribulation is a mere blink of the eye. I would choose that any day compared with growing old, and suffering, over a twenty year period or more.
 
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JacksBratt

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We reach the blessed destination regardless of these momentary afflictions and tribulations
True. Either way the destination is the same.

A few years of tribulation is a mere blink of the eye. I would choose that any day compared with growing old, and suffering, over a twenty year period or more.

I wouldn't... I'll take the growing old part.

Watching my kids succeed, spending time with friends and family, seeing my grand kids and spoiling them.... No contest to the GT.
 
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Davy

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Do you understand "sarcasm"?

Your false statement wasn't a sarcastic remark. You made a false statement with trying to link the Luke 17 'taken' idea with history...


You said:
This has already been fulfilled. It happened during the Jewish Wars. We have historical records showing that Jesus’ followers did indeed flee from Judea and Jerusalem. Some of them took refuge in Pella ("taken"), while those who remained ("left") behind were ravaged by the Romans.

In the parable that Jesus gave at the end of Luke 17, it's the FIRST one 'taken' that suffers at the hand of the fowls.

Luke 17:35-37
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

KJV


Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV


The idea is... those in Christ Jesus do NOT WANT TO BE THE FIRST ONE TAKEN!

Those in Christ Jesus are to REMAIN AT THE WHEEL GRINDING, waiting on Him, like the good householder who did not fall asleep, and who gave his household meat in due season.
 
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JacksBratt

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Your false statement wasn't a sarcastic remark. You made a false statement with trying to link the Luke 17 'taken' idea with history...


You said:


In the parable that Jesus gave at the end of Luke 17, it's the FIRST one 'taken' that suffers at the hand of the fowls.

Luke 17:35-37
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

KJV


Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV


The idea is... those in Christ Jesus do NOT WANT TO BE THE FIRST ONE TAKEN!

Those in Christ Jesus are to REMAIN AT THE WHEEL GRINDING, waiting on Him, like the good householder who did not fall asleep, and who gave his household meat in due season.
Sorry Davy... but, again, you are not comprehending which was commented about what and what was actually my point...

I'm not surprised.
 
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Davy

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Sorry Davy... but, again, you are not comprehending which was commented about what and what was actually my point...

I'm not surprised.

No sense in trying to back out of what you said now; what you said tried to link pre-tribbers false interpretation of the 'taken' idea in Luke 17. And you omitted what I quoted from you in my last post. But here it is again...

jacksBratt said:
"This has already been fulfilled. It happened during the Jewish Wars. We have historical records showing that Jesus’ followers did indeed flee from Judea and Jerusalem. Some of them took refuge in Pella ("taken"), while those who remained ("left") behind were ravaged by the Romans.

There's no mistake why you worded that "... while those who remained ("left") behind were ravaged by the Romans." You were intentionally pointing to Jesus' parable of the one 'taken' at the end of Luke 17.

And you STILL... do not understand that Luke 17 parable, it's obvious. IF you had, then you would have known that you can't use that ("left") behind idea as being historical.
 
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