Beware of Pre-Tribbers Doomsday Hype

[Apex]

Thanks to the popularity of the Left Behind novels and movies, the pre-tribulation rapture theology is now globally known. It was literally made into a Hollywood movie starring Nicholas Cage! Even people from other religions and nations are acutely aware of this theology and the events it predicts. As such, if millions of evangelical Christians (and apparently all the earth's fetuses and children) are instantly snatched away one day - the first thing that would pop into people's mind would be the pre-tribulation rapture.

This is actually a huge problem for the position. Those who support the position are adamant that the majority of the "left behind" population will be convinced that the missing people are missing because of another reason, such as alien abduction. Ironically, it is the successful marketing of pre-tribulation theology, that will make this impossible.

 

[SeventyOne]

Thanks to the popularity of the Left Behind novels and movies, the pre-tribulation rapture theology is now globally known. It was literally made into a Hollywood movie starring Nicholas Cage! Even people from other religions and nations are acutely aware of this theology and the events it predicts. As such, if millions of evangelical Christians (and apparently all the earth's fetuses and children) are instantly snatched away one day - the first thing that would pop into people's mind would be the pre-tribulation rapture.

This is actually a huge problem for the position. Those who support the position are adamant that the majority of the "left behind" population will be convinced that the missing people are missing because of another reason, such as alien abduction. Ironically, it is the successful marketing of pre-tribulation theology, that will make this impossible.

Aliens are a guess, but what if the world is in a lockdown, almost everyone in their homes. People missing could easily go unnoticed.

 

[Apex]

Aliens are a guess, but what if the world is in a lockdown, almost everyone in their homes. People missing could easily go unnoticed.

There are countless families, living in the same house, that are religiously mixed - where one or more members are not Christians. If the rapture happened, it would not go unnoticed.

 

[SeventyOne]

There are countless families, living in the same house, that are religiously mixed - where one or more members are not Christians. If the rapture happened, it would not go unnoticed.

Not by small samples, but certainly such a scenario would be unnoticed and/or easily explained away by the public at large.

 

[JacksBratt]

There are countless families, living in the same house, that are religiously mixed - where one or more members are not Christians. If the rapture happened, it would not go unnoticed.

Two will be in the field, one taken, one left.

As to the explanation... I'm sure that the alien idea would fly just fine... People are sheep... they run in a heard mentality.. Also, the wonders that the beast will show will deceive even the elect.

How many would understand that it was biblical?

 

[JacksBratt]

This is a very controversial topic.. There are large numbers of educated people that hold opposite views, even with years of experience and knowledge of the scriptures.

I think that the worst thing possible is to condemn others of different views and state that they are "deceived" or spreading false doctrine.. hurting unbelievers or any other derogatory ridicule to fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

Far as I'm concerned. convincing someone that this world is going to go through an epic event of biblical proportions and that belief in the savior and His work on the cross is your only hope...... is a bonus.... as to the timing... why insult and condemn people for their view?

 

[Apex]

Not by small samples, but certainly such a scenario would be unnoticed and/or easily explained away by the public at large.

There are multiple areas in which the impact of losing millions of people at once would be felt and could not go unnoticed. For example, think about the immediate economic impact. Millions of people would no longer be working, paying bills, or spending money. Think about all the rent and mortgages that wouldn't get paid. Also, if you believe fetuses, infants, and young children will be raptured, this further complicates your claim. An entire generation would be missing from all nations and social classes! Schools would be empty.

 

[Davy]

I'm pretty sure that all we will see from Christ is love. His love is so great that it will overwhelm and burn up all of our mistakes and confusion of this earth..

In other words... He will be infinitely more "nicer" than you are.

When my Lord Jesus returns this next time, He is not coming to be crucified on a cross again, He is coming with a two-edged sword to slay!

And in Luke 22 He told His disciples, before He sent them out on the road in final, that whoever had an extra garment or money, to go buy a SWORD! That means He gave His servants the right to defend ourselves in this world. Only those weak in the Faith wouldn't want to make a stand for Him, nor make stand to protect their own families.

He is looking for spiritually strong... servants to make a stand for Him in the end, giving a Testimony against the beast for Him, not a bunch of weaklings who preach love-dove and want to fly away to escape hardship.

 

[Davy]

Two will be in the field, one taken, one left.

As to the explanation... I'm sure that the alien idea would fly just fine... People are sheep... they run in a heard mentality.. Also, the wonders that the beast will show will deceive even the elect.

How many would understand that it was biblical?

You need to go back and re-read your Bible on those things. Per the end of Luke 17, Jesus answered that the first one taken will be as a dead carcase wheresoever the fowls gather (to feast; parallel is in Matthew 24:28). Pre-trib rapture school teaches that absolutely backwards.

And Jesus in Matthew 24 said IF it were possible... the pseudo-Christ would deceive His very elect. That means it will NOT be possible for His very elect to be deceived. So you got that backwards too.

 

[Davy]

Thanks to the popularity of the Left Behind novels and movies, the pre-tribulation rapture theology is now globally known. It was literally made into a Hollywood movie starring Nicholas Cage! Even people from other religions and nations are acutely aware of this theology and the events it predicts. As such, if millions of evangelical Christians (and apparently all the earth's fetuses and children) are instantly snatched away one day - the first thing that would pop into people's mind would be the pre-tribulation rapture.

This is actually a huge problem for the position. Those who support the position are adamant that the majority of the "left behind" population will be convinced that the missing people are missing because of another reason, such as alien abduction. Ironically, it is the successful marketing of pre-tribulation theology, that will make this impossible.

John Nelson Darby originally taught that it would be a 'secret' rapture, that the Church would be gone in secret. The the pre-trib rapture school later changed that idea. They keep changing their theory when more and more actually begin reading their Bibles and questioning their ideas. Now some of them are teaching that the "day of the Lord" happens at the START of the tribulation, flat denying the events that end this present world on the "day of the Lord" (like 2 Peter 3:10 and 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5).

 

[JacksBratt]

When my Lord Jesus returns this next time, He is not coming to be crucified on a cross again, He is coming with a two-edged sword to slay!

Really? He's not going back on the cross? Do you have scripture for that?

And in Luke 22 He told His disciples, before He sent them out on the road in final, that whoever had an extra garment or money, to go buy a SWORD! That means He gave His servants the right to defend ourselves in this world. Only those weak in the Faith wouldn't want to make a stand for Him, nor make stand to protect their own families.

He is looking for spiritually strong... servants to make a stand for Him in the end, giving a Testimony against the beast for Him, not a bunch of weaklings who preach love-dove and want to fly away to escape hardship.

I know some 95 lb little granny's that would set you right... Just cause you bully people around and ridicule and insult.. does not mean you're right.


Also.... again.. you missed my point..

I WAS actually saying that all those with salvation are seen as righteous and we have no fear of the wrath of God. We are covered by the blood of the lamb.

But, you are so blinded by your rage against the view that opposes you.. that you cannot even see what people are trying to say.

 

[JacksBratt]

You need to go back and re-read your Bible on those things. Per the end of Luke 17, Jesus answered that the first one taken will be as a dead carcase wheresoever the fowls gather (to feast; parallel is in Matthew 24:28). Pre-trib rapture school teaches that absolutely backwards.

Maybe you can explain where I got these wrong:


Matthew 24:40-42 King James Version (KJV)

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

To me.. it doesn't really set a stage of torment and wrath.. I mean really, of the two, obviously, one is a believer and one is not... when they are taken..

Doesn't really seem to be that much death and destruction as has never been seen on the earth before.. going on either..


And Jesus in Matthew 24 said IF it were possible... the pseudo-Christ would deceive His very elect. That means it will NOT be possible for His very elect to be deceived. So you got that backwards too.[/QUOTE]

You're right.. I got that mixed up. Not backwards.. just that "if it was possible.

I

 

[Apex]

Maybe you can explain where I got these wrong:


Matthew 24:40-42 King James Version (KJV)

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

To me.. it doesn't really set a stage of torment and wrath.. I mean really, of the two, obviously, one is a believer and one is not... when they are taken..

Doesn't really seem to be that much death and destruction as has never been seen on the earth before.. going on either..


And Jesus in Matthew 24 said IF it were possible... the pseudo-Christ would deceive His very elect. That means it will NOT be possible for His very elect to be deceived. So you got that backwards too.

This is not speaking of a future event. Look at the activities these people are engaged in, this is first-century agrarian work. Do you know anyone who grinds at the mill?

This has already been fulfilled. It happened during the Jewish Wars. We have historical records showing that Jesus’ followers did indeed flee from Judea and Jerusalem. Some of them took refuge in Pella ("taken"), while those who remained ("left") behind were ravaged by the Romans.

 

[SeventyOne]

There are multiple areas in which the impact of losing millions of people at once would be felt and could not go unnoticed. For example, think about the immediate economic impact. Millions of people would no longer be working, paying bills, or spending money. Think about all the rent and mortgages that wouldn't get paid. Also, if you believe fetuses, infants, and young children will be raptured, this further complicates your claim. An entire generation would be missing from all nations and social classes! Schools would be empty.

There will definitely be some of that when it takes place. No doubt. I'm just saying that this lockdown would be a convenient excuse to use.

 

[Davy]

Really? He's not going back on the cross? Do you have scripture for that?

Pause your Torah Jew study a while and read the New Testament.

 

[Davy]

This is not speaking of a future event. Look at the activities these people are engaged in, this is first-century agrarian work. Do you know anyone who grinds at the mill?

This has already been fulfilled. It happened during the Jewish Wars. We have historical records showing that Jesus’ followers did indeed flee from Judea and Jerusalem. Some of them took refuge in Pella ("taken"), while those who remained ("left") behind were ravaged by the Romans.

That is strangely... funny.

The Matthew 24 signs are about signs for the end in the last generation leading up to Christ's return. They haven't happened yet.

And the parable about the first one taken is NOT to safety, it's to wheresoever the fowls are gathered (to feast on the dead), this per end of Luke 17. Thus the one that is saved in that parable is the one left behind.

 

[JacksBratt]

This is not speaking of a future event. Look at the activities these people are engaged in, this is first-century agrarian work. Do you know anyone who grinds at the mill?

This has already been fulfilled. It happened during the Jewish Wars. We have historical records showing that Jesus’ followers did indeed flee from Judea and Jerusalem. Some of them took refuge in Pella ("taken"), while those who remained ("left") behind were ravaged by the Romans.

Well, that's a real stretch.. very optimistic... but, you're entitled to your view.

 

[JacksBratt]

Pause your Torah Jew study a while and read the New Testament.

Do you understand "sarcasm"?

 

[Apex]

Well, that's a real stretch.. very optimistic... but, you're entitled to your view.

Please explain how this is a stretch? Here is what the church historian Eusebius had to say about this event:

"But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. And when those that believed in Christ had come thither from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men.

But the number of calamities which everywhere fell upon the nation at that time, the extreme misfortunes to which the inhabitants of Judea were especially subjected, the thousands of men, as well as women and children, that perished by the sword, by famine, and by other forms of death innumerable,—all these things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the cities of Judea, and the excessive sufferings endured by those that fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire,—all these things any one that wishes may find accurately described in the history written by Josephus."

Eusebius: Church History, 3.5.3-4

 

[Apex]

Well, that's a real stretch.. very optimistic... but, you're entitled to your view.

I highly recommend reading the Book of Revelation, Chapters 6 through 19, then reading Josephus, Jewish War, books 4–7.

John specifically declares that he is writing a prophecy about events that "must shortly take place" because "the time is at hand". Consequently, the careful interpreter should look for events in the first century that might fulfill his dramatic expectations. Since Jesus and several of the New Testament writers prophesy the judgment of God upon first-century Israel and her Temple (e.g., Matt. 8:11–12; 21:33–45; 22:1–7; 23:1–24:34; Luke 19:41–44; 21:20–22; 23:28–31), and since this event conclusively and dramatically ends the long-standing old covenant (Heb. 8:7–13; 12:22–29), and since it so devastated Israel’s people, culture, and religion, I am convinced Revelation focuses on the era of the Jewish War with Rome. In fact, I do not see how this conclusion can be avoided when considered from the exegetical, theological, and historical perspectives.

Check this out, here is Revelation 16:21:

"And great hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, fell from heaven on people; and they cursed God for the plague of the hail, because the plague was so severe."

Now, here is an except from Josephus' Jewish War 5.270-273 (written in 75 CE) that you might find interesting:

"Now, the stones that were cast were of the weight of a talent [about 100 pounds], and were carried two furlongs and farther. The blow they gave was no way to be sustained, not only by those that stood first in the way, but by those that were beyond them for a great space. As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was of a white color, and could therefore not only be perceived by the great noise it made, but could be seen also before it came by its brightness; accordingly the watchmen that sat upon the towers gave them notice when the engine was let go, and the stone came from it, and cried out aloud in their own country language, “THE SON COMETH:” so those that were in its way stood off, and threw themselves down upon the ground; by which means, and by their thus guarding themselves, the stone fell down and did them no harm. But the Romans contrived how to prevent that by blacking the stone, who then could aim at them with success, when the stone was not discerned beforehand, as it had been till then; and so they destroyed many of them at one blow."