depression (Orthodox and Orthodox-friendly, please)

archer75

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I recognize that this is an "ask your priest" thing if it's personal, so I'm asking in the abstract. I assume there are plenty of Orthodox who struggle terribly with depression and anxiety and so on. I mean the kind that is like being scalded. Is there a received opinion on all this in the modern Orthodox world? I will be honest, I have trouble thinking of personal (physical, mental) phenomena in terms of demons and so on. But lately (last couple years, since I was received, more or less), I have felt almost hunted at times.
 

Monk Brendan

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I recognize that this is an "ask your priest" thing if it's personal, so I'm asking in the abstract. I assume there are plenty of Orthodox who struggle terribly with depression and anxiety and so on. I mean the kind that is like being scalded. Is there a received opinion on all this in the modern Orthodox world? I will be honest, I have trouble thinking of personal (physical, mental) phenomena in terms of demons and so on. But lately (last couple years, since I was received, more or less), I have felt almost hunted at times.
Not all illnesses--physical, mental, or behavioral--are caused by demons.

Demonic activity can be suspected if the illness does not respond to normal therapy.
 
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archer75

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Not all illnesses--physical, mental, or behavioral--are caused by demons.

Demonic activity can be suspected if the illness does not respond to normal therapy.
No no, I know. I am not insisting on demonic activity. Just talking.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I recognize that this is an "ask your priest" thing if it's personal, so I'm asking in the abstract. I assume there are plenty of Orthodox who struggle terribly with depression and anxiety and so on. I mean the kind that is like being scalded. Is there a received opinion on all this in the modern Orthodox world? I will be honest, I have trouble thinking of personal (physical, mental) phenomena in terms of demons and so on. But lately (last couple years, since I was received, more or less), I have felt almost hunted at times.
Rebuke the demons with the power of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. He is there just call upon Him with a pure heart and He will diminish your haunting s.
Blessings
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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I recognize that this is an "ask your priest" thing if it's personal, so I'm asking in the abstract. I assume there are plenty of Orthodox who struggle terribly with depression and anxiety and so on. I mean the kind that is like being scalded. Is there a received opinion on all this in the modern Orthodox world? I will be honest, I have trouble thinking of personal (physical, mental) phenomena in terms of demons and so on. But lately (last couple years, since I was received, more or less), I have felt almost hunted at times.


Welcome to the club. All True Christians are persecuted. It's not always in the physical with humans. It starts in the spiritual (Ephesians 6:12) harassing us and then manifests when those demons work through people. Sometimes the people are not aware and other times they are fully aware and willingly and knowingly allowing demons to synergistically channel through them to persecute Christians.
 
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MariaJLM

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Mental illness is usually not a demonic thing, but rather a legitimate health problem. In fact, it's for this reason that exorcisms are extremely rare these days. We understand enough now about mental health to know that most erratic behaviours are not demonic in nature.

And yes, I've had this discussion with my priest since he knows I'm mentally ill.
 
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The problem is often physiological in nature, yet there are often spiritual aspects to it as well, in that our personal thoughts and thought processes play a role. A demonic element can be involved in keeping a person ill with depression or anxiety insofar as they (malevolent spirits) are present and manipulating/shaping thought patterns, through the planting of various suggestions.
 
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archer75

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Oh. I've been depressed, but I don't know what you mean be being scalded by it.
I mean that it kind of...burns? Like, extreme. Like a kind of mental scald.
 
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royal priest

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I mean that it kind of...burns? Like, extreme. Like a kind of mental scald.
Hmm. I can't recall if I've experienced something like that. I have experienced physical suffering under depression such as fatigue and even soreness in my joints and muscles. The soul and body are so conjoined that suffering in one aspect often affects the other.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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Mental illness is usually not a demonic thing, but rather a legitimate health problem. In fact, it's for this reason that exorcisms are extremely rare these days. We understand enough now about mental health to know that most erratic behaviours are not demonic in nature.

And yes, I've had this discussion with my priest since he knows I'm mentally ill.


Yes that was what I was sort of getting at. Seeing how I almost became a mental health counselor.

You really have 2 types of depression. One that is very tied into hormones and brain chemicals that can be possibly influenced by demons, but there is another that is tied into her our beliefs. It is based on how we see the world, and the things we think. After reading books like "Orthodox Psychotherapy", I would think or hope there would be some priests our there that would realize this is also about "Renewing Your Mind in Christ" etc. besides more ancient explanations and cures regarding demons etc.
 
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icxn

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A small act of charity, such as feeding that poor fellow on the street on your way to work, can do wonders in alleviating depression. In fact, charity is the spiritual aspirin for a multitude of spiritual ailments. Try it.
 
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I mean that it kind of...burns? Like, extreme. Like a kind of mental scald.

Huh. Are you very angry about something or towards someone? I've heard it said that depression is sometimes anger turned inwards. Having done 'things I could not forgive myself for', I became very depressed and self-destructive. Eventually I found healing and let go of that (to be honest, I am still in the process, but much progress has been made)
 
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Reconciliation and Truth

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I recognize that this is an "ask your priest" thing if it's personal, so I'm asking in the abstract. I assume there are plenty of Orthodox who struggle terribly with depression and anxiety and so on. I mean the kind that is like being scalded. Is there a received opinion on all this in the modern Orthodox world? I will be honest, I have trouble thinking of personal (physical, mental) phenomena in terms of demons and so on. But lately (last couple years, since I was received, more or less), I have felt almost hunted at times.

I find it reasonable to assume that where science cannot provide, faith can for an answer. Some issues in life are best treated by psychology, others are better treated by medication. You can't talk your way out of a headache, nor can you appropriately treat tragic loss by medication. We know from the Gospel that demonic possession is real. That would be a supernatural affliction. I would reason that it is best to first rule out all natural afflictions.

Depression is very difficult to treat at times. People are given medication which doesn't address their particular depression and only makes their life worse.
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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Haha, "talk to your priest" is so stereotypical of Orthodox forums but yet I cannot avoid it being said once again, talk to your priest about this.
Some problems are to intricate and to difficult to solve for random people on the web.
You really shouldn't air things in a place life CF as there are more demons hunting Christian's at this site than in the entire county I live in.
Seriously, if you struggle my advice (another internet-dudes advice, oh the irony) is for you to disconnect for some time. Leave CF and if possible the web altogether and seek God in prayer and worship. Let him who made you heal you.
Get at far away from CF as possible until you're more mentally and spiritually fit for participation.
 
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~Anastasia~

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My answer is going to be purely "theoretical" and is NOT advice, because I don't know the situation.

Yes, some kinds of mental anguish are purely medical in origin - though there is every reason to expect that demons will happily take advantage of any weakness they find in us and delight in antagonizing us further. Medical intervention may or may not help, as it is an inexact science and sometimes (often) a matter of finding the correct treatment (or combination of treatment) which may help in varying degrees. Spiritual aid may still benefit, regardless of the degree of success from medical treatments.

Demons can also be a sole cause. It has happened to me more than once, but I recall a particularly low period in my life (brought on largely by my own spiritual ignorance and involving prelest too) ... where I felt literally eaten up by my thoughts every moment of every day for months. It was to the point of pretty much being unbearable. And then a thought came to me - thank God! Perhaps God was rescuing me (well, no "perhaps" about it!) ... but perhaps I needed or certainly I had deserved that suffering. Maybe it had done its work. Or maybe I was too mired to benefit and God had mercy. At any rate ... it suddenly fell into my mind that everything I was suffering was NOT my own thoughts, not true, but constant demonic suggestion. And I had been falling for it. I felt a flash of anger at the demons. But in that instant, I was also freed. My mind cleared and my life utterly changed. I still made lots more mistakes and took years to dig myself fully out (or there I go again, it took years before I let God dig me out? Even at that I was forced, and suffered much.) But I know from my experience (this and others) that demons can make our lives a living hell in more ways and with more tactics than this. But yes ... the mind burns, is "scalded".

And another thing. Torment can actually come from God, with His reasons. I am reminded of St. Silouan, who explains it as "keeping one's mind in hell but despairing not" ... so for some there can be a benefit and God Himself will allow it.

It reminds me of when people ask about suggestions, or thoughts, or visions ... like so many things, the source can be ourselves, or demons, or God (whether from Himself on the Holy Angels, etc.). Or some combination, especially if demons are involved, since they love to cause confusion. God can sometimes be VERY clear and leave no doubt, but then again it's maybe possible to be confused by other sources even when God is involved.

So it can be very difficult to discern. I have made grave mistakes in my life on that point. Looking back even, I am unwilling to try to untangle source(s). It doesn't matter anymore anyway. It's in my past. But in someone else's present ... well, I would seek out my priest's advice, or perhaps go to a monastery if someone there might help.

Prayers for you.
 
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