WHERE DOES IT SAY GOD'S SABBATH IS ABOLSIHED AND WE ARE COMMANDED TO KEEP SUNDAY AS A HOLY DAY?

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Neostarwcc

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Already been brought up and addressed early in this thread in post 55 linked. Follow the links in the early post if your interested.

The OLD TESTAMENT is written in HEBREW and translated into the GREEK. The HEBREW WORD for SABBATH is SABBATH SHABBATH שׁבּת (H7676) Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

The GREEK translation of the HEBREW word SABBATH SHABBATH שׁבּת is σάββατον; SABBATON; sab'-bat-on Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

NOTE: The application of SABBATON from the GREEk translation of SHABBATH has a wider application than merely GOD'S 4th Commandment or SEVENTH DAY. It also includes ANY DAY OF WEEKLY REPOSE FROM SECULAR WORK. The use of the word SABBATON is not retricted only to the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH of God's 4th Commandment. It can also mean the intervals between the SABBATH depending on the context it is applied in also ANY DAY of the week NO WORK is done. Therefore as the GREEK word has many meanings and applications the CONTEXT of how the GREEK word is used determines the correct definition.

This means ALL the annual feast days that were not the SEVENTH DAY but where no work was to be done are also translated as SABBATON.

These ceremonial "SPECIAL" Sabbaths (plural) were connected to..

* Annual festival of The blowing of trumpet (Leviticus 23:24)
* Annual Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:32)
* Annual Feast of tabernacles (Leviticus 23:39)

These "SPECIAL" Sabbath could fall on any day and were connected directly to these festivals that were prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and God's plan of Salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

................

The within scripture and chapter CONTEXT is where we then must determine the correct application and meaning of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 which is in reference to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY [FEASTIVALS], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS <plural>:

PAUL'S within scriptures CONTEXT and use of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 is in reference to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

EZEKIEL 45:17 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the Sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the DRINK OFFERING thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of EVERY SABBATH, beside the continual BURN'T OFFERING, and his DRINK OFFERING.

ISAIAH 1:10-14 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your NEW MOONS and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

LEVITICUS 23:4 [4] These are THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread…… [13] And the MEAT OFFERING thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the DRINK OFFERING thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

HOSEA 2:11 [11], I will also cause all her mirth to CEASE, HER [ISRAEL'S] FEAST DAYS, her NEW MOONS, and HER SABBATHS, and all HER [ISRAELS] SOLEMN FEASTS.

wait for it back to the NEW...

HEBREWS 9:1-12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

HEBREWS 10:1-9
[1], FOR THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, AND NOT THE VERY IMAGE OF THE THINGS, CAN NEVER WITH THOSE SACRIFICES which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3], But in those SACRIFICES there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4], For it is not possible that THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND GOATS should take away sins.
[5], Why when he comes into the world, he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS YOU WOULD NOT BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME:
[6], IN BURN'T OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAVE HAD NO PLEASURE.
[7], Then said I, See, I come in the VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME, to do your will, O God.
[8], Above when he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU WOULD NOT, neither had pleasure therein; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW;
[9], Then said he, See, I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.

NOTE; the LAW in reference here is NOT God's 10 Commandments but the law of sin offereings from the SHADOW laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the LAW *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26 from the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 (Please look at the attached scriptures)

Your use of the GREEK leave out the context of application and word use that PAUL is writing about from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures which are the sacrificial SIN offereings and JEWISH annual festivals that where shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12.

Ok the above section addressed the use of the GREEK word SABBATON and application and word use in the WITHIN scriptures CONTEXT applied to COLOSSIANS 2:16-17. Let's now look at the within CHAPTER CONTEXT leading up to COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 to determine the topic of conversation.

COL 2:11-17 CHAPTER CONTEXT
[11], In whom also you are CIRCUMCISION with the CIRCUMCISION made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[12], Buried with him in baptism, in which also you are risen with him through the faith of the working of God, who has raised him from the dead.
[13], And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
[14], BLOTTING OUT the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
[15], And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
[16], Let no man therefore judge you in FOOD AND DRINK, or in respect of a HOLY DAY [FESTIVAL], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:
[17], Which are a SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

CHAPTER CONTEXT OF COL 2:14 AND SUBJECT MATTER (COL 2:11-17)

V11. Shadows of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing to CIRCUMCISION of the HEART MADE WITHOUT HANDS by the CIRCUMCISION of Christ.

THE SHADOW LAWS FORETOLD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES….

DEUTERONOMY 10:16 [16] CIRCUMCISE THERFORE THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

DEUTERONOMY 30:6 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

JEREMIAH 4:4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

NOTE: NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ…

ROMANS 2:25-29 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

1 CORITHIANS 7:19 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

HEBREWS 8:10 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS [NOTE: THE SHADOW OF CIRCUMCSION]: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

CONCLUSION; The CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION is a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT pointing to a NEW HEART to LOVE and OBEY GOD in the NEW COVENANT. The SHADOW laws of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant are the within CHAPTER CONTEXT BEFORE COL 2:14

Did you wish to answer the OP now? Where in God's WORD does it say God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sun day as a Holy day?

Hope this helps.

I see. Yeah someone already brought up that It's already been said. Thank you for the link of it's address. I disagree with you though "Sabbath Day" Is pretty clear. Unless you're saying the English translators translated it wrong? I don't really speak or read Greek but I'm going by what they translated it as. I believe it's meaning is don't let anyone judge you by keeping any of the religious holidays and festivals because if you keep them great (Paul kept many of the religious festivals and kept the Sabbath himself)! If you don't keep them that's fine too because we are no longer under the Law anymore but are under grace (See Romans 6:14, Galatians 3:25, and Matthew 5:17).

I think that's what Paul meant with Colossians 2:16. I could be wrong because I am not fluent in Greek but Paul DID say we are not under the Law anymore but are under grace. So I don't know why you're quoting the Law to prove your point. The Law was given to the Jews to show how sinful mankind is and God never expected mankind to keep it perfectly because he knew it was impossible (See Romans 3:19-20). That is why he sent Jesus into the world to die for us. Those who are under the Law cannot go to heaven or be saved because God demands perfection when it comes to the Law (See Matthew 5:48 & James 2:10) and when it comes to our sin (Romans 3:23) and to keep the law perfectly is impossible. In fact the only human that has EVER done it in this world's 6-10,000 year history was Jesus himself. He could only do it because he was God in the flesh and was conceived by the Holy Spirit otherwise, he would have sinned too and couldn't have bought our salvation.
 
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Saint Steven

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Because it doesn't support their argument.
Right.

Gentiles were NEVER obligated to the Sabbath. So, how could we have "changed the day" since there wasn't one to change?

Exodus 31:13
Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

Ezekiel 20:12
Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the Lord made them holy.

Ezekiel 20:20
Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God.”
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I see. Yeah someone already brought up that It's already been said. Thank you for the link of it's address. I disagree with you though "Sabbath Day" Is pretty clear. Unless you're saying the English translators translated it wrong? I don't really speak or read Greek but I'm going by what they translated it as. I believe it's meaning is don't let anyone judge you by keeping any of the religious holidays and festivals because if you keep them great (Paul kept many of the religious festivals and kept the Sabbath himself)! If you don't keep them that's fine too because we are no longer under the Law anymore but are under grace (See Romans 6:14, Galatians 3:25, and Matthew 5:17).

I think that's what Paul meant with Colossians 2:16. I could be wrong because I am not fluent in Greek but Paul DID say we are not under the Law anymore but are under grace. So I don't know why you're quoting the Law to prove your point. The Law was given to the Jews to show how sinful mankind is and God never expected mankind to keep it perfectly because he knew it was impossible (See Romans 3:19-20). That is why he sent Jesus into the world to die for us. Those who are under the Law cannot go to heaven or be saved because God demands perfection when it comes to the Law (See Matthew 5:48 & James 2:10) and when it comes to our sin (Romans 3:23) and to keep the law perfectly is impossible. In fact the only human that has EVER done it in this world's 6-10,000 year history was Jesus himself. He could only do it because he was God in the flesh and was conceived by the Holy Spirit otherwise, he would have sinned too and couldn't have bought our salvation.

If we do not consider both the within scripture and chapter context and read the scripture in isolation to the rest of the chapter then we will not get the correct understanding of what is being discussed in COLOSSIANS 2. It is very clear looking at COLOSSIANS 2:11-17 that the CONTEXT is the law in ORDINANCES from the MOSIAC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT and not God's 10 commandments. This is shown in detail in the previous two posts looking at both the within scripture and chapter CONTEXT of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17.

Then comparing the within scripture context we can see very clearly that PAUL is referencing the MOSAIC Shadow law in FEAST days nearly word for word in EZEKIEL 45:17 with EZEKIEL 45:18-25 as confirmation. For example PAUL quoting

COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY [FEASTIVALS], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS <plural>:

PAUL is quoting from

EZEKIEL 45:17 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

So both the within chapter CONTEXT talking about the SHADOW laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT and the within scripture CONTEXT talking about the ANNUAL FESTIVALS and ceremonial sabbaths connected to FEASTS (not God's 4th commandment) and also PAULS reference to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures, all three reference points all agree together that COLOSSIANS 2:16 is in reference to the MOSAIC SHADOW laws and not God's 4th Commandment or God's 10 Commandments. The BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS when applied together are all references to the annual FEAST days of LEVITICUS 23.

In these annual FEASTIVALS there were special ceremonial sabbaths (not God's 4th commandment) that where linked to certain FEASTS that could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. These included;

* Annual festival of The blowing of trumpet (Leviticus 23:24)
* Annual Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:32)
* Annual Feast of tabernacles (Leviticus 23:39)

These "SPECIAL" Sabbath could fall on any day and were connected directly to these festivals that were prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and God's plan of Salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

...........

To be UNDER THE LAW means to be guilty before GOD of breaking it *ROMANS 3:19-20. All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

God bless
 
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LoveGodsWord

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let me help you out

the OP says:
Where does it say God's Sabbath is abolished and we are commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

You are implicitly starting an argument with 2 sides.

Argument 1: "God's Sabbath is not abolished and we are not commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy Day"

Argument 2: "God's Sabbath is abolished and we are commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day"

You are defending argument 1 and are trying to refute argument 2. Argument 2 is an informal fallacy. It's an informal fallacy because what it states cannot be proven and will always be false. You present Argument 2 like it is your opponent's argument but no one actually asserts this so you're trying to refute an argument that was never presented in the first place. Argument 2 is set up from the onset to fail because it is an informal fallacy since it crumbles easily (think of a straw man falling over) all that is left standing is argument 1 which then is presented as the only right position. Argument 1's thesis is correct (what I wrote above) but the meat of what you wrote in the OP would be hotly refuted. This is a straw man and it is a textbook example of it.

Remember, you build an argument for your opponent that is weak but something your opponent never actually asserts. because it is weak you can easily knock it down just like a straw man.

Let me fix your argument:
you say:
Where does it say God's Sabbath is abolished and we are commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

again it's a straw man because no one says the Sabbath is abolished, and no one says there is a command to keep Sunday as a Holy Day but let's fix it so it's no longer a straw man.

The issue here is that people are not keeping the Sabbath and seem to be keeping another day (Sunday) but this is not the same as asserting your opponent claims the Sabbath is abolished or that keeping the Sunday is a command (this is why it's a straw man argument). so to represent your opponent better you could say:

Where does it say God's Sabbath is [fulfilled or no longer needs to be observed] and we [now value worship on] Sunday?

this is not a straw man because it is an actual assertion from your assumed opponent and it can be properly engaged. So it's up to you. continue with your straw man or change your language to respect and accurately represent your opponent. Also, listen to your opponent and use their language to refute their position rather than change their words to something easier for you to reject. Doing the latter is what changes it to a straw man argument.

I'll be clear, I'm targetting your words "abolish" and "command" and am telling you no one uses these words so I challenge you to use the words your opponent is actually using.

Sorry brother. Don't need any help thanks. You asked for if I understood what a strawman argument was. I responded and provided you with a definition from wiki showing your the one making the strawman not me. It is God's WORD and JESUS who says that all those who KNOWINGLY follow the teachings and traditions of men are not following God not me *MATTHEW 15:3-9.

Wiki
A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting anargument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."

Your making broard general claims for the all of those who go to Church on Sunday that simply is not true. In my experience sharing God's WORD throughout my time there are many who genuinely teach and think God's 4th commandment is not binding on Christians or is abolished so your claims here are simply not true.

I am not making an argument against someone but simply providing the word of GOD in MATTHEW 15:3-9 and asking the questions where is the scripture for this tradition that has lead many to break God's 4th commandment. Your trying to make an argument against the OP and God's WORD that is not true.

It is your side not mine that is making the strawman against God's 4th commandment which is one of Gods 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:4; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. God's 4th Commandment is one of those 10 commandments. JAMES says that if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN

God's WORD says all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

If you do not have scripture for your position then why follow man made traditions over the WORD of GOD? Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it. *ROMANS 3:4

God bless.
 
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The Righterzpen

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Hello Righterzpen,

That is not correct brother as shown in the earlier posts the GREEK WORD for SABBATON has many word meanings and it is the CONTEXT and the application of when the word is being used that determines the correct meaning.

You were also shown earlier.

The Greek translation of the HEBREW word for SABBATH is SABBATON σάββατον; sabbaton; Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

As shown above there are 5 meanings of the GREEK translation used as Sabbaton which include;

1, The Sabbath
2, A rest day from working
3, The interval between two Sabbaths (e.g. any day between one Sabbath to another)
4, Plural in all application of Sabbath day, week
5, WEEK (Seven days)

It is the application and the CONTEXT of the scripture that determines what definition is being applied. That is why for example when mia *DAY 1 σάββατον SABBATON is used and knowing the JEWISH and HEBREW naming convention of the says mia sabbaton is translated as the first day of the week or literal tranlater day 1 after the Sabbath (first day of the week) in this case the application of σάββατον SABBATON is to the WEEK.

The scripture do not say the first day of the week is the Sabbath. That is why most of the bible translations are translated as first day of the week.

Regarding the naming convention of day 1 after the Sabbath etc this was already brought up in my last post to you and is the reason that sabbaton has been used correcrtly and also translated correctly as day 1 after the Sabbath or first day of the SABBATON (week).

Now did you have any scripture to address the OP? Where is the scripture that says God's 4th Commandment has been Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

Hope this helps.


What you are saying about "weeks" being always connected to the word "Sabbath" in the Hebrew is not Scriptural; nor are you being intellectually honest with your method of hermeneutics. Yet I suspect you already know this.

As a 7th day adventist with an agenda that wants to be "right", as opposed to actually obedient to what the Scripture really says; I have given you adequate Scriptural evidence that the "Sabbath" was indeed changed to Sunday; yet you do not want to obey. That apparently is the real issue. You also apparently are quite familiar with the Scripture, yet you are twisting it to your own destruction. (2 Peter 3:16)

For the benefit of anyone else who may be reading this post though and is in honest search of the real answer: here is your error.

Exodus 34:22 - "The feast of weeks". That word "week" is not a derivative of the word "Sabbath".

Leviticus 12:5, Numbers 28:26, Deuteronomy 16, 2 Chronicles 8:13, Jeremiah 5:29, Daniel 9. All these passages are where the word "weeks" is used and in none of them is it a derivative of the word "Sabbath".

"weeks" = Strongs# 7620:
"Sabbath" = Strongs #7677.

7620 - "week" is a derivative of the number "seven".
7677 - "Sabbath" is a derivative of the word "rest".

So for you to say that "week" in Hebrew is a derivative of the word "Sabbath"; is not being Scripturally sound or intellectually honest.

Also "mia Sabbaton" is NEVER used in the Hebrew to name or describe "the first day of the week". Genesis 1:5 when the Scripture describes the first day; it does not use the word Sabbath. The Hebrew literally says "day one".

So since the Hebrew denotes "day one" as "first day of the week"; when it comes to denoting "first day of the week" in the New Testament, for "hermeneutical consistency" the Holy Spirit could have just as easily directed the writers of the New Testament to use the same linguistic arrangement used in the Old Testament. He didn't do that though.

In Matthew 28:1 though - IT IS VERY CLEAR THE WORD "SABBATH" IS USED TO DESCRIBE BOTH SATURDAY AND SUNDAY.

"At the end of the Sabbaths as it began to dawn toward the first of the Sabbaths came Mary Magdalene...."

Now for your question of "Where in the Scripture does it say God's 4th commandment has been abolished".

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in ALL things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 4:21-31
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Galatians 5:18
But if you be led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Those who are redeemed are freed from the law because they are now under Christ. The Holy Spirit has cleaved Himself to their spirit thus "writing the law on their hearts" and making them a "new creature in Christ".

The entire Old Testament including what is often called "the moral law" has been done away with in Christ, for those He has redeemed. Does this mean believers are immoral? No they are not, because the Holy Spirit being a moral entity compels them to obedience, because God can not deny Himself.

So yes, the 7th day Sabbath was done away with for those who are in Christ. For those who aren't though, they will be condemned by the Law; for the only thing the law can do is condemn. (Romans 3:19)

So "LoveGodsWord" - at this point you don't really "love God's word" because you are not obedient to it. Repent.

People such as me pointing this out to you, will do one of two things. If you are one of God's elect, you will come to repent and believe. If you are not one of God's elect than instances such as this very conversation will be recounted to you on Judgement Day. You will never be able to say to God - "I never knew the Sabbath was changed!" He will say to you - Remember that person on Christianforums who pointed out to you the Greek, where the word Sabbath was used for both Saturday and Sunday.

"I hope this helps."
 
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Selene03

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Hello Selene03, nice to see you. Some comments for your consideration below.


Indeed that is what God's WORD says in MARK 2:27-28.



Indeed that is why JEUSUS taught us the true meaning of the Sabbath and how to keep it as a HOLY DAY of rest in the NEW COVENANT.



Absolutely brother MATTHEW 12:1-12



Brother I was enjoying your post until I got to this section. Once again where is the scripture that say that the LORD'S DAY is SUNDAY? Please provide scripture. The LORD'S DAY is not SUNDAY and never has been according to God's WORD. God's WORD alone says that the LORD'S DAY is the SABBATH day. All we need to do is ask the question and let God's WORD answer it. What day is the LORD'S DAY according to God's WORD?

MATTHEW 12:8. FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY.

There is no scripture brother that says that the LORD'S DAY is Sunday. If you disagree please provide the scripture that says that the "LORDS DAY" is Sunday.



Brother once again there is only SEVEN DAYS in a WEEK not EIGHT. LEVITICUS 12:1-5 says that on the eighth day after conception (male child being born) they are to be circumcised.

Thanks for sharing though.

Hope this helps.

You say that the Lord’s Day is not Sunday. How do you know? Where in the Bible does it say that it’s not Sunday? The “Lord’s Day” was mentioned by John in the Book of Revelation.

Revelations 1:10 - I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

John knows when the Lord’s Day is, and this was information passed down to the Early Christians. That’s the reason why many Christians come together to worship on Sunday, rather than Saturday. You look for Scripture, telling you when the Lord’s Day is; yet, it appears that you’ve already made up your mind that it isn’t Sunday. There are some things that Jesus said and did that were not written in the Bible, but the Apostles knew about it (John 21:25). The Lord’s Day is known to be Sunday. John certainly knew what he was referring to when he mentioned the Lord’s Day. Many Christians also know the Lord’s Day to be Sunday.......the day of His resurrection.
 
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Saint Steven

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I'm surprised nobody's brought up Colossians 2:16.

Colossians 2:16

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day."

Also, we worship on a Sunday because it is the day that Christ rose from the dead. But that's been said already.
Oftentimes Sabbatarians will use this scripture below to prove that the Sabbath will be kept in eternity. But are they keeping the new moon now?

Isaiah 66:23
From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord.
 
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dstamps

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Hello brother dstamps,

Nice to meet you and thank you very much for sharing your thoughts. I agree it is only through God's WORD alone we can find JESUS to follow him in God's appointed way. We are all sinners in need of a Saviour and it is only in God's WORD alone that we can find JESUS. We become his disciples as we CONTINUE to BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD and learn. It is God's WORD through faith that changes us. This is what the SABBATH teaches, God's WORD is God's power of creation.

God's Word however does disagree with you. Where does it say in God's WORD that God's Sabbath is not a physical day as you claim?

Yet we read in the scriptures God's WORD defining what the Sabbath is in God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20.

EXODUS 20:10 But THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD your God:

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you here.
Literally, not allegorically. Did Jesus teach using literal language or allegorical language? What was the reason he said he spoke this way? Matthew 13:13-15

Even the self-serving nature understands literal language most of the time; but that nature has no access to 'words of life'.
 
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rockytopva

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If I were to go to a church and spend an hour of my life in a seminar type environment, listening to how the whole church had it wrong until 1863, until a bunch of northern Yankees set her aright, I can tell you one thing for certainty... That would be the last visit for me!
 
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rockytopva

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If I were to go to a church and spend an hour of my life in a seminar type environment, listening to how the whole church had it wrong until 1863, until a bunch of northern Yankees set her aright, I can tell you one thing for certainty... That would be the last visit for me!

In the late 1800’s, if I lived in the north, I would be supporting revivals such as we had in DL Moody.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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What you are saying about "weeks" being always connected to the word "Sabbath" in the Hebrew is not Scriptural;nor are you being intellectually honest with your method of hermeneutics. Yet I suspect you already know this.
Now where have I ever stated that the GREEK word SABBATON definition and use of the weeks is always connected to SABBATH? I have never said such things but only stated that there is 5 possible definition of the GREEK word SABBATON and depending on their application within the scripture and chapter context determines the meaning applications of the definition used. As mentioned earlier that is why for example in ACTS 20:7 μία σάββατον (mia sabbaton) used in this scripture is not saying that the first day of the week is the Sabbath.

The context is to the daily naming convention of the JEWISH and HEBREW naming convention of the days of the week which literally mean first day of the sabbaton or first day after the Sabbath. All bible translations are first day of the week which is one of the GREEK definitions of the word SABBATON which has been correctly translated as WEEK instead of SABBATH. So brother what your posting is not what I am saying anywhere.

Now who is being hones here me or you? Why post things that I am not saying or have said to you? Where have I ever posted that SABBATON definition of weeks is always connected to SABBATH?. It is always connected to SABBATON as one of the meaning of SABBATON the meaning of any one of the 5 definitions of SABBATON as shown earlier is in the application within scripture and chapter context.
As a 7th day adventist with an agenda that wants to be "right", as opposed to actually obedient to what the Scripture really says;
Now brother, please I have only posted God's WORD and GREEK or HEBREW word definitions showing that a single word meaning can have many definitions which are determined on the application of the within scripture and chapter context of word use. Please show me what I have posted here that is against scripture and God's WORD? If you cannot you only have your words which are not God's WORD. Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says all those who follow the teachings and traditions of men over the Word of GOD are not following God not me *MATTHEW 15:3-9.

Hope this helps. (shorter posts more to come)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I have given you adequate Scriptural evidence that the "Sabbath" was indeed changed to Sunday; yet you do not want to obey.
Well that one has no truth in it. What scriptures have you provided that say God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY day? Nope not one. What scriptures have you provided to answer a single question in the OP here? Nope not a single one.

You have provided a word definition that I have gone through with you to show the GREEK word SABBATON has many definitions and it is the applicaiton of the within scripture and chapter context that determines the word meaning and application based in the many GREEK word definitions the Greek word has.
That apparently is the real issue. You also apparently are quite familiar with the Scripture, yet you are twisting it to your own destruction. (2 Peter 3:16)
Really? Then prove it from the scrpitures. Where in Gods WORD does it say God's 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY? You have no scripture have you? Please show me what I have posted here that is against scripture and God's WORD? If you cannot you only have your words which are not God's WORD. Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says all those who follow the teachings and traditions of men over the Word of GOD are not following God not me *MATTHEW 15:3-9.

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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For the benefit of anyone else who may be reading this post though and is in honest search of the real answer: here is your error.

Exodus 34:22 - "The feast of weeks". That word "week" is not a derivative of the word "Sabbath".

Leviticus 12:5, Numbers 28:26, Deuteronomy 16, 2 Chronicles 8:13, Jeremiah 5:29, Daniel 9. All these passages are where the word "weeks" is used and in none of them is it a derivative of the word "Sabbath".

"weeks" = Strongs# 7620:
"Sabbath" = Strongs #7677.

7620 - "week" is a derivative of the number "seven".
7677 - "Sabbath" is a derivative of the word "rest".

So for you to say that "week" in Hebrew is a derivative of the word "Sabbath"; is not being Scripturally sound or intellectually honest.
Now brother are you being honest here? Where have I ever posted the HEBREW WORD for WEEKS is a derivative of the SABBATH? If I have never said such things why are you pretending that I have? I posted to you that one of the GREEK word definitions of SABBATON is weeks. Go back and read what was posted to you.
Also "mia Sabbaton" is NEVER used in the Hebrew to name or describe "the first day of the week". Genesis 1:5 when the Scripture describes the first day; it does not use the word Sabbath. The Hebrew literally says "day one".
Once again where have I ever posted to you that mia Sabbaton which is GREEK is used in HEBREW to name the first day of the week? Once again if I have never said such things why are you pretending that I have? I posted to you that one of the GREEK word definitions of SABBATON is weeks. Go back and read what was posted to you.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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So since the Hebrew denotes "day one" as "first day of the week"; when it comes to denoting "first day of the week" in the New Testament, for "hermeneutical consistency" the Holy Spirit could have just as easily directed the writers of the New Testament to use the same linguistic arrangement used in the Old Testament. He didn't do that though.
Sorry brother this is said in all love and respect this is rubbish. Please show the scripture that the HEBREW language needs to be the same as the GREEK language. This is a theory of yours not supported with scripture.
In Matthew 28:1 though - IT IS VERY CLEAR THE WORD "SABBATH" IS USED TO DESCRIBE BOTH SATURDAY AND SUNDAY. "At the end of the Sabbaths as it began to dawn toward the first of the Sabbaths came Mary Magdalene...."
Sorry brother so what your saying here is that all the bible translations and application of SABBATON to first day of the WEEK are not correct and it really means that SUNDAY is a SABBATH. There seems to be a lot of bible tranlators that know GREEK and HEBREW really well that disagree with you.

Who should we believe you or all the scholars that tranlated the verse correctly as WEEKS?

PARALLEL TRANSLATIONS

New International Version
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

English Standard Version
Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

Berean Study Bible
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

Berean Literal Bible
And after the Sabbaths, it being dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

New American Standard Bible
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

King James Bible
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Christian Standard Bible
After the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to view the tomb.

Contemporary English Version
The Sabbath was over, and it was almost daybreak on Sunday when Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

Good News Translation
After the Sabbath, as Sunday morning was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
After the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to view the tomb.

International Standard Version
After the Sabbaths, around dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to take a look at the burial site.

NET Bible
Now after the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

New Heart English Bible
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But on the eve of the Sabbath, when the first of the week was dawning, Maryam Magdalitha and the other Maryam came to see the tomb.

New American Standard 1977
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

King James 2000 Bible
At the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

American King James Version
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

American Standard Version
Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Douay-Rheims Bible
AND in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.

Darby Bible Translation
Now late on sabbath, as it was the dusk of the next day after sabbath, came Mary of Magdala and the other Mary to look at the sepulchre.

English Revised Version
Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Webster's Bible Translation
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

Weymouth New Testament
After the Sabbath, in the early dawn of the first day of the week, Mary of Magdala and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre.

World English Bible
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

................

As from the previous posts to you this is a correct translation of Sabbton as one of the GREEK word definitions is WEEKS. However, here we are talking about two Sabbatons (Plural). This is because JESUS was crucified on the PASSOVER and following the PASSOVER was the FEAST of UNLEAVENED BREAD. This day is a HOLY CONVOCATION or NO WORK was to be done on this day; This is also one of the GREEK WORD definitions for Sabbaton.

Now in closing this section if you want to really look at the GREEK renderings and application to MATTHEW 28:1 I am happy to do so. Set up a thread and send me a link as it is a new topic.

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Now for your question of "Where in the Scripture does it say God's 4th commandment has been abolished".

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in ALL things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Now brother are you really trying to argue that God's 10 commandments have been ABOLISHED and we are all free to sin, murder, lie, steal, commit adultery? Is this really your interpretation of GALATIANS 3:10? Sorry brother God's WORD does not teach lawlessness. How does your interpretation of the scriptures above reconcile with...

ROMANS 3:31[31], Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

Your confused as to what is being shared here. No one is telling you that we are saved by the works of the law. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. According to God's WORD however, all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken. God's WORD say that if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Where is the scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?

Hope this helps..
 
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DamianWarS

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I am not making an argument against someone but simply providing the word of GOD in MATTHEW 15:3-9. Your trying to make an argument against the OP and God's WORD that is not true. It is your side not mine.
The OP implicitly states an argument by asking a question to find something that you do not accept. It then goes through 27 other questions doing the same thing. Although you are not making an argument against a specific person you are making an argument against a position and this position which is not explicitly stated is essential all those who do not value keeping the Sabbath. It's a straw man argument because those who do not value keeping the Sabbath do not actually say the Sabbath is abolished or that Sunday is commanded to keep. So the question is a bit moot because no one is trying to claim these things. I'm not actually engaging your point I'm calling out your argument as flawed from the beginning and refuse to engage it until you can change the language you are using.

Forget about the straw man Just understand no one claims these things in the OP because the language you use is too extreme that no one would agree with it. instead of saying "Where does it say the Sabbath is abolished" say "Where does it say we don't have to obverse the Sabbath". And instead of saying "Where does it command us to keep Sunday as a Holy day" say "Where does in scripture does it value Sunday worship". These are fundamentally different assertions and it seems you refuse to see it.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Galatians 4:21-31 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Soo yep this is talking about the OLD and NEW COVENANTS. We are no longer UNDER THE laws of MOSES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the law from the OLD COVENANT *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26; EXODUS 24:7. You mix up your SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of SIN when broken in the NEW COVENANT *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT says that if we break any one of God's 10 Commandments we stand guilty before GOD of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken. God's WORD say that if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Where is the scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?

Hope this helps
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Galatians 5:18 But if you be led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
INDEED because if you have confessed your sins and forsaken them and be faith accept the gift of God's dear son we have been forgiven and are free to follow and LOVE him who first love us. However, all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN have not seen him and do not KNOW him and need to be BORN AGAIN *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-9.

Where is the scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?
Those who are redeemed are freed from the law because they are now under Christ.
We are freed from the law of SIN and DEATH we are not free to CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN. God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT defines SIN as BREAKING any one of God's 10 Commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7. All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN have not seen him and do not KNOW him and need to be BORN AGAIN *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-9.

Where is the scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?
 
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