- Aug 21, 2003
- 28,581
- 6,065
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
..."Also, by introducing four types of seed, Yeshua employed a common Rabbinic tacticbegin
used to describe different types of disciples. In the Mishnah Pirket Avot 5:18, it reads:
There are four kinds of qualities of those who sit at the feet of the sages: they are
like a sponge, a funnel, a strainer, or a sieve. A sponge soaks up everything; a
funnel takes it in at one end and lets it out at the other; a strainer lets the wine pass
through but retains the lees; a sieve lets out the bran and retains the fine flour.”"
Understanding Yeshua's parables from a Hebrew Perspective also see the talmud passage here: Pirkei Avot 5:15
I agree the seed/sower parable is similar to the quote above. Jesus was a Jew and I'm certain He would have heard many Jewish teachers using similar teaching techniques.
Matthew 13:13 could also just mean that they didn't understand the parable not that they didn't think it was a parable. However, I believe you have the context backwards for that verse, parables were used to get at peoples hearts essentially reveal not conceal Isaiah 6:8-13 Isaiah 6 Brenton Septuagint Translation Notice that Jesus is quoting the Septuagint (which agrees more with older documents like the dead sea scrolls) here:
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’
(Matthew 13 NKJV)
9Ye shall hear indeed, but ye shall not understand; and ye shall see indeed, but ye shall not perceive.
10For the heart of this people has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
(Isaiah 6 Brenton Septuagint)
9 And He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’
10 “Make the heart of this people dull,
And their ears heavy,
And shut their eyes;
Lest they see with their eyes,
And hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart,
And return and be healed.”
(Isaiah 6 NKJV)
"And I said why should I?"
You don't have to do anything for me on this forum I said "I would be most interested" if you could show that the article was inaccurate. I'm trying to learn things but it seems by this statement you are more interested in debate. I won't rely on wikipedia but if I have nothing else on a particular topic I tend to go with it:
"A recent essay by American historian Roy Rosenzweig examined the effects of Wikipedia on historical writing and its credibility as a reliable source. He compared entries in Wikipedia with more well-regarded resources and surprisingly he found a similar error rate! While Wikipedia’s anonymous, open-source system may cause concern about vandalism and misinformation, his tests have found that serious mistakes are not only much less common than one might expect, but are typically corrected within a matter of hours." Can you trust the historical accuracy of Wikipedia? - Technology news for museums - Canada.ca
"Context again. Why did I say what I did?"
That's why I asked if you were being pejorative. I still don't know why you included the comment about it being 100 years old though.
I consider them reliable on Jewish apocalyptic literature which they see in the book of revelation I don't think they need to be knowledgeable about the NT to recognize their own literature and themes.
"Your posts did not indicate that you knew the context. Jer 19 does not contradict my post."
I said "here's some evidence you might find interesting" I think it's evidence that if this happened in history (and it was a hugely significant event of destruction) that they might still associate this valley with destruction and slaughter. (since they called it "the valley of slaughter"
"You should read the context of your proof texts before you post. The one on the cloud is an angel. I don't know what powers or capabilities an angel has."begin
I did actually read the immediate context but it doesn't look like you did. It didn't say the one with a sickle in the verses I referred to was an angel just "like the Son of man" Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 14:14-17 - New King James Version
You apparently didn't read vs. 19. Now do you understand why I'm a bit snarky?
Rev 14:15
(15) Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."...
Rev 14:19
(19) The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath.
Maybe this will help you understand where I am coming from. I belong to a major evangelical Trinitarian denomination, I have been at this forum for almost 2 decades and I have been debating with members of heterodox groups all that time. A favorite practice of all such groups is quoting scripture out-of-context trying to support their false doctrines. When I see scripture quoted out-of-context as you have done I no longer consider it a friendly, serious discussion.(15) Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."...
Rev 14:19
(19) The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath.
Okay. Previously you thought the one on the cloud was a person.This is metaphorical language that goes back to language associated with the kingdom of heaven and the harvest.
There are differences between almost all verses, the relevant things are the phrases you are saying mean forever. People had to pass through to see that it was desolate. If we take revelation literally there will be a new heavens a new earth so the burning pitch and smoke and desolation cannot be there forever in the new perfection.begin
People would not have to pass through a region to know it was desolate. All they would have to do is pass near it and look across.
.....As for "new heavens a new earth so the burning pitch and smoke and desolation cannot be there forever in the new perfection"
Revelation 21:3-8
(3) And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Look! God's dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
(4) 'He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
(5) He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
(6) He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.
(7) Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
(8) But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
Vs. 4 "no more death' or mourning or crying or pain"(3) And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Look! God's dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
(4) 'He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
(5) He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
(6) He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.
(7) Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
(8) But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
Vs. 5 "everything new."
Vs. 6 "It is done."
Vs. 8 Eight groups of people thrown into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
This is one continuous narrative. Parts of the narrative cannot be taken out and said to have happened previously.
"The lamb can be "the word of God" and lamb as the same time in the same way Jesus was Himself and the lamb of God at the same time."
I mean I understand that it literally says he was the word in John and the word became flesh but this isn't a literal usage of "word" look at the usages it has: 3056 - Search the Apostolic Bible Polyglot
Before cherry picking verses trying to prove me wrong perhaps you should first read the complete context.begin
. . .
Are you serious?
. . .
Seriously, wiki?
" (and much other snarkiness)
Anyways, I'm not going to put up with the condescending way you are acting towards me and your behavior of combing through my posts for insignificant things you can twist and sneer at so I'm not going to respond to you anymore.
See my explanation above.
Upvote
0