Lord's Supper - Wine or Grape Juice?

1stcenturylady · Jan 2, 2018

Phil 1:21 said:
To answer the original post...
To me that's like asking if the cover of our Bibles should be black or red, which is to say the external is unimportant.

Don't you have a burning desire in your heart to know exactly what God desires? I do, and so does my friend, Jason0047. He and I do not always come to the same conclusion, but we are both diligent seekers of Truth, and respect one another.

When it comes to the content of the wine, it is the internal that matters. Leaven represents sin, and this wine represents our Lord. Was he full of sin? If so, He would not have been suitable to cleanse the sins of the whole world. The same goes for the bread. There was no leaven in it. I know some practice the Lord's Supper with "daily bread." But I choose not to. It is called the fear of the Lord, which is the beginning of wisdom.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 2, 2018

Jason0047 said:
It was not a nice try.
It is the truth.
The simple facts say that a Thursday or Friday crucifixion does not work.
If Jesus was crucified on Thursday, it would be Sunday at 3:00PM when He would be risen.
If Jesus was crucified on Friday, it would be Monday at 3:00PM when He would be risen.

We KNOW you are wrong because we have 2 witnesses on the road to Emmaus...

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 2, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Don't you have a burning desire in your heart to know exactly what God desires? I do, and so does my friend, Jason0047. He and I do not always come to the same conclusion, but we are both diligent seekers of Truth, and respect one another.

When it comes to the content of the wine, it is the internal that matters. Leaven represents sin, and this wine represents our Lord. Was he full of sin? If so, He would not have been suitable to cleanse the sins of the whole world. The same goes for the bread. There was no leaven in it. I know some practice the Lord's Supper with "daily bread." But I choose not to. It is called the fear of the Lord, which is the beginning of wisdom.

He became sin... 2 Corinthians 5:21

truefiction1 · Jan 2, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Do you have a personal testimony, or not? I was filled with the Holy Spirit on February 9, 1977, AFTER going to church for 30 years! You can quote scripture if you like, but even Satan can do that. If you are going to tell people they are not in the Church, because they are SDA and not your denomination, then you better have personal evidence.

If a person does not believe Christ they aren't in the Church. A person who says that our Lord's Communion is not Him, that person does not believe Christ because that is what He said.

My personal evidence is that I came face to face with the Glory of Christ when I received His Communion while filled with the Holy Spirit. I understood as best as a created being can the our God is present in the bread and wine, and had come to know the Power of the Sacrament and why He commanded us to eat His flesh and drink His blood. That's how I personally know for certain that anyone who denies the real presence of Christ in the Sacrament has chosen not to believe the real Christ, but has followed after another Christ and another gospel of their own choosing.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 2, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Then what is the purpose of getting all the leaven out of the house before Passover? They even make a game of it for teaching their children by hiding a bit. If there was no leaven in the house, including anything that contained leaven, like bread, how can it be said they used leavened bread at the Passover meal? We're missing something here.

Because it was NOT Passover yet nor the days of unleavened. It was NOT a Passover seder...there was NO lamb even. It was a pre-festival meal called a "Seudah Hamafseket"...

1stcenturylady · Jan 2, 2018

Jason0047 said:
It was not a nice try.
It is the truth.
The simple facts say that a Thursday or Friday crucifixion does not work.
If Jesus was crucified on Thursday, it would be Sunday at 3:00PM when He would be risen.
If Jesus was crucified on Friday, it would be Monday at 3:00PM when He would be risen.

Jesus said to the thief on the cross that He would be with Him in Paradise that very day. Jesus did not go to Heaven during His three days and three nights. Jesus was in the Heart of the Earth. Jesus went to Abraham's bosom and Jesus visited those who perished during the global flood in Sheol.

God is very precise on how He does things.
If three days and three nights does not mean 72 hours exactly then we can just start to allegorize other facts in the Bible.

Only a Wednesday crucifixion fits what Scripture says.
In fact, Mary could not buy spices to anoint Jesus on Thursday because it was a High Holy day or High Sabbath according to the Pharisee’s misguided traditions. Shops and markets would have been closed, so she could not go out and buy any spices to annoint Jesus. However, there would have been time for her to buy and prepare the spices on Friday. This is why a Thursday and Friday crucifixion does not work. If Jesus was crucified on a Thursday, the next days Friday and Saturday would have both been a Sabbath. She would not have had time to buy and prepare any spices to anoint Jesus. If Jesus was crucified on a Friday, again, she would not be able to buy and prepare spices. The next day would be a Saturday Sabbath, and shops would be closed at sundown on the beginning calendar day of Sunday for her to buy the spices.

Note:

Some say Mark 16:9 is a declaration of the point of when Christ had risen. However, this is merely talking about how Christ was already risen.

"Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week,..." (Mark 16:9).

It's talking about the physical state of the body of Jesus and not about the actual event of Him being risen. For example: Bob can say, "when Rick was alive the first day of the week." This does not imply that Rick was not alive the previous day.

Hi Jason, my friend.

In your link you said two things that seem to contradict each other and I need you to clarify which you believe. First you said he rose at 3 PM, which would be afternoon (exactly 72 hours). And the second you said he rose in the night-time. Personally, I believe He rose after sundown Saturday, not letting another evening enter the mix.

1stcenturylady · Jan 2, 2018

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
He became sin... 2 Corinthians 5:21

Yes, I already thought of that, but the lamb was perfect.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 2, 2018

Jason0047 said:
Did they have cell phones back then? I am not buying it.
Plus, it destroys how we interpret the Bible. Nowhere is "three days and three nights" ever said to be an allegory or not true. Three days and three nights = 72 hours. You cannot change the math on that. Jesus meant what He said literally in this case.

You really do not see....it is sad...it is not about math. So He don't mean on the 3rd day or in 3 days then? You can not get your math unless it is 3 NIGHTS and 3 Days...that was NOT what He said

1stcenturylady · Jan 2, 2018

truefiction1 said:
My personal evidence is that I came face to face with the Glory of Christ when I received His Communion while filled with the Holy Spirit.

What did you see or hear?

1stcenturylady · Jan 2, 2018

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Because it was NOT Passover yet nor the days of unleavened. It was NOT a Passover seder...there was NO lamb even. It was a pre-festival meal called a "Seudah Hamafseket"...

Hmmmm. But it was Nissan, not Av.

Thanks for all these new words to look up...

1stcenturylady · Jan 2, 2018

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
You really do not see....it is sad...it is not about math. So He don't mean on the 3rd day or in 3 days then? You can not get your math unless it is 3 NIGHTS and 3 Days...that was NOT what He said

Hi again,

How do you explain this verse. It seems to me Jesus DID say it.

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 2, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Hmmmm. But it was Nissan, not Av.

Thanks for all these new words to look up...

The Seudah for Pesakh was also a Galilean custom. After this meal, as the sun came up the next morning on the 14th, there would be a fast day (fast of the firstborn) which Yeshua also took part in, He did not eat from sunset until his death...

1stcenturylady · Jan 2, 2018

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
The Seudah for Pesakh was also a Galilean custom. After this meal, as the sun came up the next morning on the 14th, there would be a fast day (fast of the firstborn) which Yeshua also took part in, He did not eat from sunset until his death...

What I looked up also said there was no "intoxicating" wine, which would mean the wine wasn't fermented.

(I'll be back later)

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 2, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Hi again,

How do you explain this verse. It seems to me Jesus DID say it.

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

It was an idiom, an analogy representation of the story. You remember, He said "only an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign"...many times He would tell them a parable and they would not understand what He was talking about. here He says no sign will be given other than the sign of Yonah, yet He did not finish it or explain it to them. as I said many times before, the "sign" was not that a dead man was in the grave (or in a fish) for 3 days/nights, but that the man SURVIVED and lived! Do you think the Ninehvites would have believed if Yonah was eaten by the fish and never showed up?

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 2, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
What I looked up also said there was no "intoxicating" wine, which would mean the wine wasn't fermented.

(I'll be back later)

That "could" have been the custom while others may have used wine.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 2, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Leaven represents sin,

Leaven can be an example of negative but can also be used as positive... leaven is like The Kingdom! Matthew 13:33

truefiction1 · Jan 2, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
What did you see or hear?

I saw, heard, smelt and tasted and felt the unspeakable and ineffable Love and Glory of God, and I ate and drank Him with inexpressible joy and thanksgiving! We were One.

Phil 1:21 · Jan 2, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Don't you have a burning desire in your heart to know exactly what God desires?

Of course, but I suspect in the pursuit of such some people never get past the outside of the cup. Wine versus juice at communion reminds me a bit of jacket and tie or sweatshirt for church attire. If one is troubled by such a thing, then perhaps one's focus is in the wrong area.

Der Alte · Jan 2, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
I know that scripture by heart, my friend. I KNOW the 7th day, Saturday, is the weekly Sabbath. But there were annual Sabbaths as well that were holy convocations and no work allowed. Ready Leviticus 23. The list starts with the weekly Sabbath, but continues.

Please show me where scripture calls 1st and/or 7th day of unleavened bread a Sabbath? The only Sabbath which occurred in passion week was the weekly 7th day Sabbath.
Lev 23:7-8 does say "no servile work." but for the Sabbath 23: "you shall do no work."

Leviticus 23:6-8
(6) And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
(7) In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
(8) But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

Vs. 8 permits kindling a fire which is prohibited on the Sabbath. And that verse you know by heart makes an exception for preparing and cooking food on a holy convocation.

Exodus 12:16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

truefiction1 · Jan 2, 2018

Communion is the Eternal Wedding banquet, celebrating the Mystical Union between Christ the Bridegroom and His Bride the Church, or, between God and His beloved Israel. Wine is for weddings, and as the Lord changed water into wine at the wedding in Cana, then wine is what is used in the Mystical Matrimonial celebration of Communion. Wine, not juice. If only juice, and no wine were available for Communion, like was the case in the Soviet labor prison camps (the gulag) where Orthodox priests were imprisoned as enemies of the state, then juice or some other drinkable liquid could be used instead.

Lord's Supper - Wine or Grape Juice?

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Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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