The Seven Crowns of Rev. 12 vs. the 10 Crowns of Rev. 13

Douggg

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Not really, Christ is Greek for Messiah or ANOINTED ONE who is the King of Kings. Anti means one who stands against. So the Anti-Christ is he who stands up against the Messiah, just like Daniel chapter 8:25 says.
The little horn person in Daniel 8:25 will have become the beast at that time when at Armageddon he stands up against Jesus, no longer the Antichrist. He is however in the role of the Antichrist when he destroys many by peace, leading the Jews and the world to believe they have entered the messianic age.




Matthew 27:42

He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Mark 15:32
Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

John 12:13
Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.



The Anti-Christ will be the another who comes in his own name, anointed the King of Israel.
 
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Douggg

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The Scriptures do not say that brother, it speaks about the "FIGURATIVE BEAST: having a Mortal Wound and that happened when Israel was dispersed all around the World, Rome CEASED being a Beast because of course their was NO ISRAEL to BEAST OVER. The Man when he Conquers Jerusalem will be ALL POWERFUL by that time, no one is going to kill him, he is going to kill Billions of peoples.
The person is not attacking Jerusalem when he is killed. He will be there in Jerusalem as the King of Israel, the Jews and world thinking peace and safety of the (perceived) messianic age, when he totally unexpectedly to the Jews, commits the transgression of desolation, claiming to be God. The Day of the Lord begins. God has the person killed for the act in Ezekiel 28:1-10.
Brings him back alive in Isaiah 14:19-20.

Revelation 17:
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

was alive - is not alive, died - yet is alive again.
 
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Servant232

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The fourth beast was the Roman Empire, and when it collapsed, out of its head, the western empire arose 10 nations Dan 7:20

And Another Little horn/Nation arose after them and plucked up three of the first 10 by the roots. Dan 7:8

The Ten nations that arose first
giphy.gif


England - The Revolutionary War

France - The Louisiana Purchase

Spain - The Spanish American War

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A1 B2 C3 D4 E5 F6 G7 H8 I9 J10 K11 L12 M13
N14 O15 P16 Q17 R18 S19 T20 U21 V22 W23 X24 Y25 Z26

Daniel Seven Eight = 159 - the roman empire 160

I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. Dan 7:8 ~ 15


There were three = 163 10

England France Spain = 163 10

One hundred sixty three = 261 9

The United States of America = 261 9

_______

The Revolutionary War = 270 9

The Louisiana Purchase = 225 9

The Spanish American War = 225 9 _ 27

270+225+225 = 720

Dan 7:20

And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. 27

Daniel Seven Twenty = 217


_____________________

Rev 17:12

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 39 _ 12

fema_regions.jpg



The Continuity of government is the responsibility of The Federal Emergency Management Agency

of which the United States has been divided into 10 regions.


Revelation Seventeen Twelve = 317 + 10

The Federal Emergency Management Agency = 327 + 10

The Continuity of government = 337

_______________________________

Babylon is a three-part city

religious - Vatican City

political - Washington D.C.

economic - The City of London

All Three are Independent city-states/nations

Rev 17:5 _ 22
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Revelation Seventeen Five 272

The mother of harlots = 226

The roman catholic church = 226

_ _ _

And the great city was divided into three parts ... Rev 16:19 KJV

Revelation Sixteen Nineteen = 303


And the great city was divided into three parts = 448

Vatican City = 127 + 10
Washington DC = 137 + 48
The City of London = 185

127+137+185 = 449

globalelite177_03.jpg


Why is an obelisk, baal's shaft erected at these three places, baal is satan, all hidden in plain sight.

About 45% of all known Jewish people that are alive today, are living in land of their inheritance, Jerusalem and Judea, But the house of Israel has not returned to their tribal lands. As of Yet!

Joe 3:1
For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, ( Being Fulfilled since 1967)

2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat (YHWH Judges), and will plead with them there for My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and Parted My Land.

Judah has returned to their captivity in Jerusalem, as they are still being ruled over by arrogant men (not by the Torah) Isaiah 28:14 men that gave away part of Jerusalem after the 6 day war, and have committed Israel into negotiating a two state solution, the covenant of death, which was first mentioned as the answer to the supposed problem by george w bush in his roadmap to peace speech on 6/24/2002, where he called for an independent palestinian state inside the borders of Israel, and that announcement was soon backed up by a quartet of nations (all nations) EU UN Russia and the USA vs Israel up to this very day.

Also

At the end of days (the last generation of this age) the Bible describes and speaks extensively about one particular nation more than any other... And the Word of God calls this nation "the daughter of babylon" and in her midst there are those from The house of Judah And from The house of Israel.

Jer 50:4
In those days, and in that time
, saith YHWH, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek YHWH their ELOHIM.

5 They shall ask the way to Zion...

By Country - Jewish Population

World
14,200,000

21px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png
Israel 6,399,000

23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png
United States 5,300,000

England, The City of London

Jer 50:12

Your mother shall be sore confounded; she that bare you shall be ashamed: behold, the hindermost of the nations shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert.

hindermost 'achariyth - after part, end, last in time



    • end, issue, event
    • latter time (prophetic for future time)

Jer 50:16 66 Books

Cut off the sower from Babylon, and him that handleth the sickle in the time of harvest: for fear of the oppressing sword they shall turn every one to his people, and they shall flee every one to his own land.

Mar 4:14 The sower sows The Word.

Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

The Word is going forth from the land of the daughter of Babylon, until the sword comes...

Jer 50:20
In those days, and in that time, saith YHWH, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I Reserve.

Jer 50:28
The voice of them that flee and escape out of the land of babylon, to declare in Zion the vengeance of YHWH our ELOHIM, the vengeance of His Temple.

Zec 14:12
And this shall be the plague wherewith YHWH will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
 
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Riberra

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Revelation 17:
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,AND GO INTO PERDITION : and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
The Beast who is destined to perdition [that we call the AC] that the world shall wonder;them whose names were not written in the book of life, is actually locked into the Bottomless Pit...until that God decide the time as come to let him go Revelation 9...
Revelation 9:1-11
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven fallen unto the earth: and there was given to him the key of the Bottomless Pit.

11 They have over them as king the angel of the Bottomless Pit: his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek [tongue] he hath the name Apollyon.

Abaddon is ONE of the SEVEN HEADS of Revelation 13:1-2....Abaddon is the ONE who will be wounded at the head and SEEMED to die Revelation 13:3 [whose wound at the head will be mysteriously healed (nice trick>> angels are immortal)], that the whole Earth shall wonder.
 
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Revealing Times

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The little horn person in Daniel 8:25 will have become the beast at that time when at Armageddon he stands up against Jesus, no longer the Antichrist. He is however in the role of the Antichrist when he destroys many by peace, leading the Jews and the world to believe they have entered the messianic age.

Matthew 27:42
He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Mark 15:32
Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

John 12:13
Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.



The Anti-Christ will be the another who comes in his own name, anointed the King of Israel.

When the Anti-Christ destroys many BY PEACE he is by definition the BEAST at this time, but he is still STANDING AGAINST CHRIST (Hes still the Anti-Christ and will always be Anti-Christ, its his nature). Those verses are about Jesus and thus have nothing to do with the Anti-Christ. The Anti-Christ does not die, the Mortal Wound is on the FIGURATIVE BEAST of Revelation chapter 13.

Israel REPENTS BEFORE the Day of the Lord, for some reason you just are not going to factor that into the equation. The scripture about the ONE THAT COMES IN HIS OWN NAME was fulfilled just before 70 AD. The Pharisees of Jesus time were told this. They brought forth FALSE CHRISTS (See MATTHEW 24:5) because they understood Rome was the Fourth Beast thus they were EXPECTING the Little Horn and tried to bring forth Messiahs to eventually SAVE THEM. That scripture has nothing to do with end time prophecy Doug, and it seems to lead you to a position where you think the Anti-Christ is ACCEPTED as that King/Messiah. Getting that verse wrong has thrown you off course it seems brother.

It is 10 kings - but not necessarily over 10 nations. The EU could end up with ten regions - the regions comprise of a number of countries, in order to balance out the representation population wise.

Like I stated, I will stick with Kings, like the bible tells us.

The person is not attacking Jerusalem when he is killed. He will be there in Jerusalem as the King of Israel, the Jews and world thinking peace and safety of the (perceived) messianic age, when he totally unexpectedly to the Jews, commits the transgression of desolation, claiming to be God. The Day of the Lord begins. God has the person killed for the act in Ezekiel 28:1-10.
Brings him back alive in Isaiah 14:19-20.

Revelation 17:
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

was alive - is not alive, died - yet is alive again.

He come to power by attacking Jerusalem, read the FIRST SEAL. The Peace/Safety is via an AGREEMENT/COVENANT, not him ruling from Israel. You have no scriptures t support this, now read the Seals in Rev. 6, he goes forth to CONQUER. The Day of the Lord begins with the very FIRST SEAL. See Zechariah 14...........

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

This above is the DAY OF THE LORD/First Seal.

The Demon Apollyon does ascend out of the bottomless pit. He was IS NOT (Hes locked in the Pit) YET IS..........He will be released.
 
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Douggg

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Israel REPENTS BEFORE the Day of the Lord, for some reason you just are not going to factor that into the equation. The scripture about the ONE THAT COMES IN HIS OWN NAME was fulfilled just before 70 AD. The Pharisees of Jesus time were told this. They brought forth FALSE CHRISTS (See MATTHEW 24:5) because they understood Rome was the Fourth Beast thus they were EXPECTING the Little Horn and tried to bring forth Messiahs to eventually SAVE THEM. That scripture has nothing to do with end time prophecy Doug, and it seems to lead you to a position where you think the Anti-Christ is ACCEPTED as that King/Messiah. Getting that verse wrong has thrown you off course it seems brother.
No-one has been anointed the King over united Israel since Solomon.

Israel does not believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ before the Day of the Lord begins. They will be trusting in the another, the Antichrist, thinking they have entered the messianic age - saying peace and safety. They get caught by surprise when the Antichrist goes into the temple sits, claims to be God.

1Thessalonians5:
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
 
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Revealing Times

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No-one has been anointed the King over united Israel since Solomon.
If the Pharisees forced him into the Messiahs role they anointed that person as their Messiah, now go back through your history an check into people who were put forth as the Messiah. Simon Ben Kosiba.

Comment: Jesus of Nazareth and Simon ben Kosiba are the only Jewish leaders who are positively identified as Messiahs in the Jewish sources: Jesus is explicitly called "Messiah" by Flavius Josephus, Ben Kosiba in several rabbinical treatises. In order to understand the following text, it must be remembered that Ben Kosiba was known under two other names: his adherents called him Bar Kochba, "son of the star" (a reference to Ballam's prophecy); and his enemies called him Bar Kozeba, "son of the disappointment" or "son of the lie". The editor of the Palestinian Talmud clearly belonged to the second group.

Jesus did not say he would be the Messiah, of course, he said if another comes in his OWN NAME, him you will accept.

Israel does not believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ before the Day of the Lord begins.

Scriptures say DIFFERENT.......Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Zechariah 14:1-2 is the Anti-Christ conquering Jerusalem. Zechariah 12:10 is when Israel REPENTS, Zechariah 13:1 is also about Israel repenting. BOTH ARE BEFORE the Seals being broken. I do not even get how you think Jews Flee when they are not Christians. They are heeding Jesus' own words where to flee to. The Scriptures say different, nothing matches, but its in your mind so that is it. The scriptures do not say that Mr Doug.

The peace and safety are the WICKED, not the Godly. You have that one backwards brother. That whole passage is about the WICKED being children of the Dark, not the light, thus they can not see, and thus they are taken by surprise. The Children of the light are not caught by surprise.
 
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Riberra

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The peace and safety are the WICKED, not the Godly. You have that one backwards brother. That whole passage is about the WICKED being children of the Dark, not the light, thus they can not see, and thus they are taken by surprise. The Children of the light are not caught by surprise.
The passage is about Jesus Coming as a thief in the night ...
Revelation 16:15-16
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walked naked, and they see his shame. 16 And they gathered them together into the place which is called in Hebrew Har-magedon.
 
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Revealing Times

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The passage is about Jesus Coming as a thief in the night ...
Revelation 16:15-16
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walked naked, and they see his shame. 16 And they gathered them together into the place which is called in Hebrew Har-magedon.
Its also a parable Jesus told, thus John uses scripture in much of Revelation to relay the book of Revelation. Go read the parable and get the gist of the story Jesus told. (Matthew 24:42-44)

Jesus is speaking unto the Jewish peoples who were not Raptured but came to Christ/Messiah via Faith afterwards, hes telling them they must stay AWAKE !! Be vigilant.

The parable of the thief in the night makes this clear. If the owner of the house knows a thief is coming, he stays awake to catch him (probably prepared with a weapon to defend his property!) An unusual element of this mini-parable is that Jesus is represented by the Thief. It is the thief that is coming suddenly and without warning, but the householder knows that he is coming sometime in the night so he is prepared. The person who is unaware the thief is coming goes to be and is robbed.

Notice the householder is “awake” – a regular metaphor for spiritual alertness. Those who will be “in the kingdom” are spiritual awake and alert, aware that the judgment is near. The opposite of this would be people who are asleep, dreaming that they are awake. My guess that in any American church of significant size, there are a good many people who are asleep, spiritually, dreaming that they are right with God and ready to meet the Son of Man. Like an unprepared householder, they are in for a surprise on that glorious day!

In Revelation those who will be surprised by the "thief" are the wicked, those Jews who are awake are being protected by God in the wilderness. God is telling the Jews to be alert, they have to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit else they will nit flee when they are told to.
 
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Riberra

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Its also a parable Jesus told, thus John uses scripture in much of Revelation to relay the book of Revelation. Go read the parable and get the gist of the story Jesus told. (Matthew 24:42-44)

Jesus is speaking unto the Jewish peoples who were not Raptured but came to Christ/Messiah via Faith afterwards, hes telling them they must stay AWAKE !! Be vigilant.
This is addressed to believers [the Church] ....Luke 12:40 have the same warning that Matthew 24:42-44

You believe that Jesus will come before the Tribulation but Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation 16:15-16 say otherwise.


That goes in line with the warning to take care of false teachers who shall deceive many [believers] .
 
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Douggg

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If the Pharisees forced him into the Messiahs role they anointed that person as their Messiah, now go back through your history an check into people who were put forth as the Messiah. Simon Ben Kosiba.
The pharisees (actually R. Akiva) saying that Simon Bar Kokhba was the messiah is on the same level as some people saying Barrack Obama is the Antichrist. Bar Kokhba was never the King of Israel.

In Judaism, to become the King of Israel the person has to be anointed by a known prophet. The Jews at their passover meal, set a place for elijah, expecting his return.

The person who becomes the Antichrist, anointed the King of Israel, most likely will be done so by the same False Prophet in Revelation. There is also a good chance that the False Prophet may claim to be Elijah - reincarnated.
Scriptures say DIFFERENT.......Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
The Jews are going to be caught unawares because they will be trusting in the Antichrist, as their messiah King of Israel.

During that first 3 years 3 months of the seven years, before the Antichrist betrays them, Elijah will be one of the two witnesses warning them about him and testifying of Jesus.

The Jews don't take anything in the New Testament as valid. They are in the dark, because of their choice.

The Jews will be mortified when the Antichrist betrays them by going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God. It will create mass confusion among the Jews and disorientation. There will be short period during which outsiders to Israel, will kill the person.

When God brings the revealed man of sin back to life, the False Prophet will have the image of the beast placed in the temple. During that chaos timeframe from when the Antichrist makes his claim of being God to the Abomination of desolation placed in the temple - the Jews will be mentally processing everything the two witnesses will have been warning them about to take place - and they will flee to mountains when the Abomination of desolation is setup to be worshiped.

At least 144,000 will have become Christians before the Abomination of desolation is setup to be worshiped. The 144,000 will convert the rest, as the two witnesses will not be around for that second half of the seven years.

The transgression of desolation (the Antichrist sitting in the temple) - triggers the Day of Lord
shortly thereafter,
The abomination of desolation (the image) - triggers the Great Tribulation
 
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Douggg

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Like I stated, I will stick with Kings, like the bible tells us.
You don't do so with the seven kings.

The ten kings are ten kings, but it does not say over ten nations.
 
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Douggg

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2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

This above is the DAY OF THE LORD/First Seal.

The Demon Apollyon does ascend out of the bottomless pit. He was IS NOT (Hes locked in the Pit) YET IS..........He will be released.
Zechariah 14 is not at the first seal. It is near the very end of the seven years. The nations gather at Armageddon, come down to Jerusalem, rape and pillage, and take half the Jews there as hostages thinking that is somehow going to protect them from Jesus executing judgment on them.

The first Seal is the person becoming the Antichrist, anointed the King of Israel, given that crown - which he confirms the Mt. Sinai coveant to begin the seven years.

The Day of the Lord doesn't begin until the second seal the rider on the red horse, after the Antichrist has betrayed the Jewish people, claiming to be God. Peace and safety of the false messianic age over.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
 
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Douggg

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Abaddon is ONE of the SEVEN HEADS of Revelation 13:1-2....Abaddon is the ONE who will be wounded at the head and SEEMED to die Revelation 13:3 [whose wound at the head will be mysteriously healed (nice trick>> angels are immortal)], that the whole Earth shall wonder.

Revelation 17:8 is making the connection between the unclean spirit currently in the bottomless pit of some former individual, and the end times person which the world will witness being killed and come back to life.

Six of the seven heads have been accounted for as historic. It is only the 7th head remaining. Which will be the little horn person. And it says in the text when he comes - he must continue a short space. Which is that he as the 7th Julio Claudian to rule the fourth kingdom, will be killed, and brought back to life for that last 42 months to rule having the persona of the beast at that time.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
 
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Riberra

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Revelation 17:8 is making the connection between the unclean spirit currently in the bottomless pit of some former individual, and the end times person which the world will witness being killed and come back to life.
Revelation 17:8 is not about a unclean spirit like the spirit of the Nephilim ....but about the ANGEL of the Bottomless Pit mentioned in Revelation 9:11,this is the ANGEL of the Bottomless Pit who will kill the two witnesses....
Revelation 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that cometh up out of the bottomless pit shall make war with them, and overcome them, and kill them.

That act of killing the two witnesses will makes him very popular all over the Earth

Revelation 11:10
10 And they that dwell on the earth rejoice over them, and make merry; and they shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwell on the earth.


That is that act of killing the two witnesses who will reveal to someone that he his the prophesied Beast /AC....that explain that someone will try to kill him ...

Nobody will be aware than that "individual"whose wound at the head will be mysteriously healed>> is a fallen angel Revelation 9:11.

Six of the seven heads have been accounted for as historic.

It is only the 7th head remaining. Which will be the little horn person. And it says in the text when he comes - he must continue a short space. Which is that he as the 7th Julio Claudian to rule the fourth kingdom, will be killed, and brought back to life for that last 42 months to rule having the persona of the beast at that time.
Are you saying that the spirit of one of the Julio Claudian is actually locked into the Bottomless Pit ?
 
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Douggg

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Revelation 17:8 is not about a unclean spirit like the spirit of the Nephilim ....but about the ANGEL of the Bottomless Pit mentioned in Revelation 9:11
Riberra, the phrase "is not" pertains to someone who in the flesh who has died. Fits a nephilim, not an angel.
Are you saying that the spirit of one of the Julio Claudian is actually locked into the Bottomless Pit ?
No, although some might theorize one of the Caesars. Someone like Caligula. But I think we agree the bottomless pit is for non-humans. Also whoever that person was now in the bottomless pit would have to be tied to dedicated rebellion against God. Nimrod, imo.

There is one other strong possibility. The original serpent in the garden of eden, which acted a vessel for Satan. In that case, a literal beast.
 
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Riberra

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Riberra, the phrase "is not" pertains to someone who in the flesh who has died. Fits a nephilim, not an angel.
-The spirits of the Nephilim who have died during the Flood are not locked into the bottomless pit.All the possession cases reported are made by the spirit of the Nephilim ...that the Bible call unclean spirits [Matthew 12:43-45].

-Only the angels who had sex with humans womans [Genesis 6:1-4] are locked there into the Bottomless Pit [Jude 1:6 ]---[2 Peter 2:4]....they are what is called the locusts In Revelation 9 ...with their chief angel ABADDON Revelation 9:11.
 
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Revealing Times

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This is addressed to believers [the Church] ....Luke 12:40 have the same warning that Matthew 24:42-44

You believe that Jesus will come before the Tribulation but Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation 16:15-16 say otherwise.


That goes in line with the warning to take care of false teachers who shall deceive many [believers] .
Well after the Rapture of the Church, and the Church marrying the Lamb (Clearly shown in Rev. 19) we get the Church Returning with Christ and the Marriage Supper. All are clearly shown in Matthew 24:28-31.

Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

{{{ So what does this mean? Rev. 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven (The Church MARRIES the Lamb, not Angels SIR), Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

So Armageddon is the Marriage Supper and the EAGLES (Church) or Fowls will be Gathered where the CARCASS is, then the very next few verses describes Jesus coming back, with the EAGLES or with the Church to Conquer the Anti-Christ and his evil minions just like Rev. 19 says. }}}


29 Immediately after the tribulation (Jesus and the Bride Returns READ Rev. 19) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (The Elect are Gathered from HEAVEN !! Just like Rev. 19 says).
 
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Riberra

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Well after the Rapture of the Church, and the Church marrying the Lamb (Clearly shown in Rev. 19) we get the Church Returning with Christ and the Marriage Supper. All are clearly shown in Matthew 24:28-31.
Show us where there is mention of the Rapture of the Church "BEFORE" the Tribulation in the whole Matthew 24 chapter ?

The gathering of the elect mentioned in Matthew 24:29-31 clearly occur AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

Matthew 24:29-31
29 But immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 
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Revealing Times

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Show us where there is mention of the Rapture of the Church "BEFORE" the Tribulation in the whole Matthew 24 chapter ?
Jesus gave the Gentile's Ministry unto Paul, so Jesus gave the Rapture understanding to Paul, Jesus does mention the Rapture to his other Disciples and they Wrote about it but did not understand it because of course this was not for the Jewish peoples per se, if Jews were a part of the Church they would understand it via Paul, but since they are the major portion of the BLIND which Most Jews will be, they will not see it anyway because they will not read the New Testament until after they repent, which Israel does do just before the Abomination of Desolation. So the Rapture massage is not explained unto the Jews, it was given to Paul the disciple of the Gentiles.

But I can break it down for you where its at in Mathew 24.

Matthew 24:1-6 is a period from Jesus unto 70 AD.

Matthew 24:7-14 is a 2000 some odd year period from 70 AD unto the Rapture.

Matthew 24:15-27 is the Tribulation period, OF COURSE.

Matthew 24:28-31 Is the Marriage Supper, Church returning with Jesus to defeat the Anti-Christ.

Matthew 24:32-35 is the Parable of the Fig Tree, it shows that after all of the "SIGNS" not some but ALL then Jesus will be seen by the Jews coming in the Clouds with the Church in tow, and the evil minion of the BEAST will see him coming also of course. This is the Second coming, not the Rapture. Notice some of the "SIGNS" are Tribulation Signs via Seal #6, so this is Jesus' Second Coming.

Matthew 24:36- 46 is the Rapture, Jesus just didn't explain it unto the Disciples. Its quite clear actually, you just have to think about it logically.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. {{This is what happens when the Jewish Groom comes for the Jewish Bride, the Son (Jesus) readies the Bridal Suite (Mansions) and then the Father sends the Son after the Bride in the wee hours of the Morning/after midnight. Only the Father knows because its HIS CALL.}}

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

{{
As in the days of Noah !! What was happening at that time? Noah was warning them of impending doom, meanwhile they were all laughing, mocking and carrying on with their lives as if nothing was about to happen, they were Marrying, Drinking, Partying and having a gay ole time. I think it is SAFE TO SAY, that if the Tribulation was ongoing, if this were speaking about the TRIBULATION, then the people would not be Marrying, Partying, Drinking and having a gay ole time, they would be DODGING the Seal wrath's, Trumpet wrath's and Vial WRATH'S !! It does not fit the Tribulation happenings at all !! That's like saying after the FLOOD CAME the people of Noah's days were Drinking, Partying, Marrying etc. etc. etc. That would just not be the case, after the FLOOD CAME people were dying, swimming for their lives etc. }}

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come (RAPTURE).

So Jesus gave them the Rapture, but never emphasized it, its for the Gentiles and Jewish Church.

The gathering mentioned in Matthew 24:29-31 clearly occur AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

Yes brother, and the Church comes back with Jesus AFTER the Tribulation. (Rev. 19)
 
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