How do you decide if something is factual?

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JoeP222w said:

Did you apply for copyright permission from the West Wing TV show before posting this?

Not very original. And clearly one who posts such a thing simply demonstrates that they are not really interested in a truthful discussion.

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hahaha, copyright ? an evil system indeed.....

none-the-less, you are correct: unless someone seeks truth, seeks YHWH'S KINGDOM, they do not accept it - they CANNOT accept it nor eve SEE it....

I have no idea what the west wing has to do with any of this, btw. (guessing the questions might have been broadcast or something? )

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Answered in random order.
No.
Yes, but they won't be. They will be tossed in the lake of fire.
Will she die if you don't ? Will she die if you do ?
Yes, this is always good. (please note that this answer is not related to the above answers)

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Why random? It's almost as if you have something to hide... you're not being dishonest now, are you?

JoeP222w said:

Unless God does a work of regeneration in your heart, no matter what answer I give, you would not accept any, since as you claim to be an Atheist (of which there is no such thing), you reject the supernatural by definition. Your pre-suppositions (among other things) are currently keeping you in bondage to your sins. So I would call on you to turn from your sins and call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ while He may be found. He is your only hope to know the truth.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

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You made the statement that the Bible was your ultimate authority by which everything is tested because it is the very word of God - I want to point out the danger of doing something like that when you have no evidence to justify that presuppositional stance.

Here, to help you revise your position on the bible being the infallible word of God, I'll answer them for you:
1. Should Gays be stoned to death?
2. Should I offer my eldest son to God, along with the offerings of the seasons first fruits, wine, oxen and sheep?
2a. If God tells me to kill my son or daughter (no matter what age they are), should I do so?
3. Can I sell my raped daughter to her rapist for fifty sheckels?

And before you, or anyone pipes up trying to tell me the new testament does away with the old, I'll quote Jesus' word in response to a question about what laws still apply:

Matthew 5:18 - For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Now, I might not believe there's a Heaven, but I know for a fact that Earth is still here, so these laws are still in full effect...

yeshuaslavejeff said:

I have no idea what the west wing has to do with any of this, btw. (guessing the questions might have been broadcast or something? )

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<=== I don't watch it normally, but of all the snippets I happen to see for some reason, this was one of them.

Bugeyedcreepy said:

Why random? It's almost as if you have something to hide... you're not being dishonest now, are you?

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Answered in random order:
No.
Because.
No.

Bugeyedcreepy said:

Here, to help you revise your position on the bible being the infallible word of God, I'll answer them for you:

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ahh.... an abomination. Selfishness and idolatry.

Sorry, not my cup of tea.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Answered in random order:
No.
Because.
No.

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ahh.... an abomination. Selfishness and idolatry.

Sorry, not my cup of tea.

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lol! Thus ends this lesson on presuppositional creationist nonsense!

Bugeyedcreepy said:

lol! Thus ends this lesson on presuppositional creationist nonsense!

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Cool! Thanks for revealing your title ! ( I had no idea )

Oh, wait.... we were warned earlier :

JoeP222w said:

..... clearly one who posts such a thing simply demonstrates that they are not really interested in a truthful discussion.

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Aman777 said:

I was waiting for you to be more specific. Science is "willingly ignorant" of this event because it knows nothing of life before the Big bang of our Cosmos, so that rules out everything except Genesis. Genesis 2:4-7 shows that man (Heb-Adam) was made the 3rd Day BEFORE plants, herbs and rain.

Genesis 2:4 also shows that the present Universe was caused LATER on the 3rd Day. We know it was late on the 3rd Day/Age since it was LESS than a Billion years BEFORE the first Stars of our world, lit up on the 4th Day. Gen 1:16 and
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-first-stars-in-the-un/

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Ok, let's unpack this. Firstly, you cannot claim that science is "willingly" anything because science is a process, not a person. So let's assume you mean scientists are willingly ignorant. That's still a faulty assertion given your basis that "it knows nothing of life before the big bang of our cosmos." Scientists may well be ignorant of anything preceding the Big Bang, but that's not for lack of trying. There are limits to what their instruments and methods can uncover, and those limits are the ones that limit scientists' understanding of the universe, not a willful ignorance.

Secondly, you keep citing Genesis as an authority without ever justifying it. Pointing out a few vague verses that aren't patently false, like whales living in the ocean, isn't enough. Genesis can make all the claims it wants, but if there is no scientific data backing it up you cannot claim, as you have, that science and scripture agree.

Aman777 said:

I was waiting for you to be more specific. Science is "willingly ignorant" of this event because it knows nothing of life before the Big bang of our Cosmos, so that rules out everything except Genesis.

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Well, if it doesn't rule out Genesis, it also doesn't rule out, for example.

• Hesiod's Theogeny
• The Matsya Purāṇa
• Völuspá from the Poetic Edda
• Other Creation Myths are available

Do you have any objection to including the contents of these in the discussion and if so, why? I am perfectly willing to exclude them, but only if Genesis is also excluded. Otherwise, they and all like materials need to be included.

gaara4158 said:

Genesis can make all the claims it wants, but if there is no scientific data backing it up you cannot claim, as you have, that science and scripture agree.

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just a footnote for outside searching:

The Bible is TRUTH. Rock Solid, unchangeable TRUTH. It has never , not once, been shown to be wrong in anything. (men and their religion and their efforts have OFTEN been shown to be wrong...)

Science, when it agrees with Scripture, is fine and good and right and true.

When it (or anyone else) disagrees with Scripture, then it is wrong and discarded.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Cool! Thanks for revealing your title ! ( I had no idea )

Oh, wait.... we were warned earlier :

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Well, if either of you hope to be seen as honest, then feel free to answer my questions anytime you're ready, so we might start that 'truthful discussion' that * I * am allegedly 'not really interested in'.

Kylie said:

If you think that the Bible is factual, how did you determine this?

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fwiw, or fyi,
many people have tried and tried and tried to prove the Bible false.

Guess what, not one succeeded.

Guess what else - while TRYING to prove it false, they became saved and learned first hand in person that it is entirely TRUTH.

So, to determine it is TRUTH, just try to prove it false - you will be utterly surprised.

Kylie said:

How do we determine if the laws described in the Bible apply to us or not?

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To find out,
Read Beresheit (Genesis), Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Psalms and Matthew .......
The ones that apply to you will then be known.

Kylie said:

I'm afraid you are wrong there.

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Be afraid, yes.... but I am perfectly correct.

The whole world is under a death sentence..... so again, be afraid, yes.

Not just a death that ends life and then nothing...

Suffering like you have never experienced ever, nor even dreampt about... (even I have no idea what it will be like for you,
but the demons believe, and shudder in terror!

JoeP222w said:

Unless God does a work of regeneration in your heart, no matter what answer I give, you would not accept any, since as you claim to be an Atheist (of which there is no such thing), you reject the supernatural by definition. Your pre-suppositions (among other things) are currently keeping you in bondage to your sins. So I would call on you to turn from your sins and call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ while He may be found. He is your only hope to know the truth.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Click to expand...

Just in case you think I'm not talking to you @JoeP222w - my invitation below is also for you too. I care how you come about facts and care about the potential damage you and @yeshuaslavejeff might be doing to the people around you. If you genuinely have reasoned argument, then whatever answer you give is at least a jumping off point.

Bugeyedcreepy said:

Well, if either of you hope to be seen as honest, then feel free to answer my questions anytime you're ready, so we might start that 'truthful discussion' that * I * am allegedly 'not really interested in'.

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I'll gladly talk to either or both of you about your points of view.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

just a footnote for outside searching:

The Bible is TRUTH. Rock Solid, unchangeable TRUTH. It has never , not once, been shown to be wrong in anything. (men and their religion and their efforts have OFTEN been shown to be wrong...)

Science, when it agrees with Scripture, is fine and good and right and true.

When it (or anyone else) disagrees with Scripture, then it is wrong and discarded.

Click to expand...

Your claim that science and scripture never disagree is utterly worthless when by your own admission you choose to ignore any science that disagrees with scripture.