ancientsoul
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Why Do So Many Want To Be Raptured?
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shturt678
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Now Trib. = Rev.7:14, "out of the tribulation, the great one," simply noting the adjective is added by a second article hence emphatic, ie, it's like an apposition and a climax.
"The Great Tribulation" via the English structure of thoughts way of thinking, eg, Matt.24:21-28 which refers to the destruction of Jerusalem, makes this refer to a terrible time yet to come (noting also Margaret MacDonald in 1830).
Now Trib. = Rev.7:14, all the tribulations are combined throughout the whole N.T. in a compressed vision. = has no beginning nor end, ie, the substantivized present participle simply characterizes without reference to time.
Now Trib. = Non-miraculous preliminary judgments that most oblivious to in Rev.6 + Miraculous preliminary judgments that almost all oblivious to in Rev.8 & 9.
Rev's. non-miraculous preliminary judgments (today, now) to be viewed as an Apocalyptic type parable - view as a composite, ie, Rev.6:2, white horse & rider and what is said of him - had a bow, given a crown conquering to conquer = Personification = The Word (Scriptures) + Word (Jesus in heaven casting down "error's working") conquers collectively alone.
Revs. miraculous preliminary judgments (this very second) also to be viewed and undressed as an Apocalyptic type parable - again viewing as a composite, ie, Rev.9 for today's time = destructive religious delusions in the whole world, eg IIThess.2:10b-12. iow Rev.9 are the higher level demons that are used by the Lord today for those that accord with IIThess.2:10b.
My end point: Agape that irony, ie, all the former will have to rejected. Just ol' old Now-Trib. Jack
"The Great Tribulation" via the English structure of thoughts way of thinking, eg, Matt.24:21-28 which refers to the destruction of Jerusalem, makes this refer to a terrible time yet to come (noting also Margaret MacDonald in 1830).
Now Trib. = Rev.7:14, all the tribulations are combined throughout the whole N.T. in a compressed vision. = has no beginning nor end, ie, the substantivized present participle simply characterizes without reference to time.
Now Trib. = Non-miraculous preliminary judgments that most oblivious to in Rev.6 + Miraculous preliminary judgments that almost all oblivious to in Rev.8 & 9.
Rev's. non-miraculous preliminary judgments (today, now) to be viewed as an Apocalyptic type parable - view as a composite, ie, Rev.6:2, white horse & rider and what is said of him - had a bow, given a crown conquering to conquer = Personification = The Word (Scriptures) + Word (Jesus in heaven casting down "error's working") conquers collectively alone.
Revs. miraculous preliminary judgments (this very second) also to be viewed and undressed as an Apocalyptic type parable - again viewing as a composite, ie, Rev.9 for today's time = destructive religious delusions in the whole world, eg IIThess.2:10b-12. iow Rev.9 are the higher level demons that are used by the Lord today for those that accord with IIThess.2:10b.
My end point: Agape that irony, ie, all the former will have to rejected. Just ol' old Now-Trib. Jack
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heavenlessstar
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I know the difference between someone debating to learn and someone debating to prove people wrong. I'm not always going to entertain the latter. I'm sorry if I've inadvertently made you feel attacked. I tried to make it clear that I wasn't directing much of my words toward you. If anyone is truly understanding what I'm saying, they'll know that I'm not debating in this thread, I'm simply defending my right to NOT HAVE TO defend my belief in a pre-tribulation rapture in a thread that wasn't created for post-trib vs pre-trib arguments. I have been trying to say live and let live. And what I mean by saying arrogance in a previous post: it's the arrogance that I sense in people who seem to think they're somehow a better Christian than me because they're not trying to "escape." I shouldn't have to put up with people shoving their doctrine down my throat - trust me, I know when it's being offered and when it's being enforced. Some people here can't let others be. I'm telling people simply back off me. They have their beliefs, I have mine. I'm not any less of a Christian. I don't fear the tribulation, though I remind people of how dreadful it will be. I fear God and I trust in Him. I still get comments directed at me suggesting otherwise, however. Who has walked in my shoes but me?
We could get along if people could live without proving themselves right and let others discuss the actual topic. I'm not in this thread to argue about the rapture (and I've tried to prove that by ignoring posts that we're purposed for arguing about it). If people want to debate it, make another thread specifically for it. It's like people can't see how pointless this is. And now I feel like a whiney baby. Sheesh peoples. Oh well, I'm not checking on this thread or any thread that has become like it anymore. You guys can continue doing what you do. :/
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ancientsoul
queen of broken hearts
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T
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Don't move on ancientsoul
Do not let those who would, intimidate you
Spend quality time with your Bible and ask the Lord to lead you into all truth .... He will over time
Be careful about interfacing with social medias on the Internet and understand that it may or may not be the best place for you to learn today
The Bible forums have gone into a tail spin as of late and have become a place for bickering and debating .... it is a real jungle .... so read, but do not engage some who are out to cause discord
Especially if you have not spent enough time with your Bible
Do not give up .... and remember this:
When you get to the end and have nothing to show [none will] ..... it is going to be all about who you know .... the great God and Savior Jesus Christ
Do not let those who would, intimidate you
Spend quality time with your Bible and ask the Lord to lead you into all truth .... He will over time
Be careful about interfacing with social medias on the Internet and understand that it may or may not be the best place for you to learn today
The Bible forums have gone into a tail spin as of late and have become a place for bickering and debating .... it is a real jungle .... so read, but do not engage some who are out to cause discord
Especially if you have not spent enough time with your Bible
Do not give up .... and remember this:
When you get to the end and have nothing to show [none will] ..... it is going to be all about who you know .... the great God and Savior Jesus Christ
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shturt678
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While in the "Tribulation" now, I think it's important to grasp that all Bible non-inspired translated "Texts," ie, aids in understanding the inspired original Autographs, fallaciously promote pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, and even my "now-trib." scrutinizing the "Context" narrows the field down considerably, ie, "Now-trib" with "1" forthcoming "caught up - the end.
btw we are towards the end of Rev.20:2, "1,000" years.
Just ol' old Jack
btw we are towards the end of Rev.20:2, "1,000" years.
Just ol' old Jack
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zeke37
IMO...
what are you talking about?
oh ya, that pre trib nonsense
there is no pre trib rapture promise, so i'm ok on that front...but thx anyway
and remember, I used to be a pre tribber, bought what family told me...
heard it all, I think....but it just ain't there, trust me, I searched real hard!
thx. I appreciate that.
it will be the most important job of my life, if I see that time.
especially since the vast majority of today's church will be deceived
my guess is that it's a lot closer than you think it is.
I don't disagree with what u wrote,
but u are confusing the tribulation for His wrath.
one comes first, then the other!
likewise, the false Messiah comes first, then the True Lord.
reason a. the bible says so.
reason b. you say otherwise, so an attempt to correct you has been made.
reason c. your theology may lead many to worship the false Messiah
sure is, but after the trib like He says repeatedly,
not pre trib like you guys and gals fantasize
you haven't even bothered to try to answer my retorts,
ie. like how John 6 and 11 show that ALL that the Father gave the Son,
would be raised at the last day
and how we know there are martyrs in the trib as stated in Rev11
so?????
logic dictates what then?
logic dictates that obv. at the last day is not a pre trib event!!!!!
and since 1Thes4 describes the Resurrection at the last day,
it is not a pre trib event
and since the rapture follows that Raising, it is not pre trib as well.
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zeke37
IMO...
actually, there is a lot to it biblically.
his mo is the same as everyone here.
a Brother in Christ trying to share what he believes.
just like u.
personally, I find his theory better than yours
I see the potential bride as all Christians
(saints/remnant of the woman who keep the commandments
and have the testimony of Jesus Christ)
I see the bride as the elect in Rev,
ie, the overcomers who dont take the mark,
and are alive at the end, to be gathered(raptured/seized) at the Lord's Coming
but I see a difference between the two olive trees and the two candlesticks
the faithful church is represented by the two candlesticks
but the two olive trees seem to be individuals, as per Rev11 and Zec4
he's a post trbber. 'course not
lol, sarcasm
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T
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"your theology is going to lead many to worship the false Messiah"
This is the false teaching of post-tribulation thinking and it is absurd to think that I would ever worship Satan's beast from the abyss .... I know too much about him and the setting in which he will operate and the events involved .... all of this has already been made known by the Lord's detailed revelation
I believe that it is the those who reject a pre-tribulation calling and enter the period of the Lord's hour of trial and judgment are the ones who will be subjected to the deceptions of the beast
You seem to know very little about this coming time of the Lord vengeance and how He intends to execute the same
You say things like "there is a difference between His judgments and His wrath"
No there is not, and there is nothing stated in scripture like this idea, in fact just the opposite
Your post-tribulation mentors have slipped you a mickey
I know some of the heavy hitters that you listen to either directly or indirectly
And these men have sold you a bag of worms
But that is OK with me
But when you get there, if you live long enough, you are going to find out what you have done .... and there will be no turning back for you
You will have to repent if you will .... no other way for you to escape with your life [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:15-22]
And may I suggest that you be careful with the "serpent slayer" .... I know that you like this one's story related to a "no rapture" rant .... however, some of the other things the serpent has said that I must necessarily classify as pure hobgoblin
There are serpent slayers who use this logo to express their fending off the devil .... but there are also serpents who come to slay people .... watch out
This is the false teaching of post-tribulation thinking and it is absurd to think that I would ever worship Satan's beast from the abyss .... I know too much about him and the setting in which he will operate and the events involved .... all of this has already been made known by the Lord's detailed revelation
I believe that it is the those who reject a pre-tribulation calling and enter the period of the Lord's hour of trial and judgment are the ones who will be subjected to the deceptions of the beast
You seem to know very little about this coming time of the Lord vengeance and how He intends to execute the same
You say things like "there is a difference between His judgments and His wrath"
No there is not, and there is nothing stated in scripture like this idea, in fact just the opposite
Your post-tribulation mentors have slipped you a mickey
I know some of the heavy hitters that you listen to either directly or indirectly
And these men have sold you a bag of worms
But that is OK with me
But when you get there, if you live long enough, you are going to find out what you have done .... and there will be no turning back for you
You will have to repent if you will .... no other way for you to escape with your life [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:15-22]
And may I suggest that you be careful with the "serpent slayer" .... I know that you like this one's story related to a "no rapture" rant .... however, some of the other things the serpent has said that I must necessarily classify as pure hobgoblin
There are serpent slayers who use this logo to express their fending off the devil .... but there are also serpents who come to slay people .... watch out
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zeke37
IMO...
about what you wrote before this question,
I too apologize to you and everyone for getting heated from time to time.
many post tribbers believe we are brought up to the sky,
to meet Him as He's Coming down, and return here.
I don't believe that.
I believe we stay here, wait here
He lands here
i really don't think it is a big deal how we get to Him from that point anyway
if we are His, we are His...
it's not worth arguing over to the extreme anyway.
but, then questions like yours arise...
and since we are after the truth, here goes...
about going UP at the "rapture"
the only place they get that from is 1Thes4
Paul wrote that, the same guy who wrote (under Inspiration) 1Cor15
he's describing the same event, to different people,
but using different colloquial Greek words to each group
to break it down, it's rather easy for an open minded person to see.
caught up = seized in Greek
there is no up in the Greek manuscripts.
it's an English translational error
ref. Strong's Exhaustive Conc.
in the clouds = the clouds of heaven,
which Paul writes in Heb12:1 is a mass multitudes of believers
the same clouds of heaven seen in Rev1
when he says "Behold, He cometh with Clouds!"
and also Mat 24 says they shall see the Son of Man Coming in the Clouds of heaven
no hiding behind this cloud!
in the air = that mystery bodily change of 1Cor15.
from flesh and blood, to spirit (pneuma) at His Coming.
in which air is a colloquial synonym for spirit
now, read it that way, and it makes sense....
it's the way I truly believe it was intended to be understood
at His Coming, we are seized to Him,
we are changed to be like the angels,
and gathered together with the dead in Christ
who were just brought from heaven and raised
because you are right.
the Lord is Coming here and staying here forever!
Zec14 among other places
in my view, Jesus only needs to come one last time!
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zeke37
IMO...
I edited that right away, to say MAY, but u posted tooo quick!
i'm really trying to help u Bro.
so u think if we believe NOW, we have a choice THEN?
really?
you don't think it's up to the Lord who He takes at His Coming?
you seem to misunderstand the difference between the tribulation
and the wrath of God that follows it
well, how about you follow the phrase "wrath of God" in Rev
and see for yourself?
I obv can't convince you
who?
who?
I don't even know that, lol....
who?
my thought is many/most of us won't know when they are in it,
because many of us errantly believe they will be whisked away off the planet
so to them, they could never be in it, right
who better to be fooled than those that think they wont be here for it
well, I will make that determination for myself. tyvm
but to be honest, if u are casting stones at him,
I might just listen to what he has to say even more closely
and that only after 1 post of his....hint hint
ps. while I don't like to go at it like this with other Christians
I can give as good as I take
so change your attitude, stop being so high and mighty
actually answer some posts with scripture,
but only after first reading the question's scripture
and maybe you will learn something instead of just being hard headed.
anyone can do that
even me!!!!!
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T
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You do get your teaching from others, so you should not deny it ... and I know most of the front line pied pipers who are spreading the same
I will leave you with your ideas ..... and I can guarantee you one thing
If you go there you will know it immediately [Revelation 6:12-17] .... all on the face of the earth will know that they are under His terrible wrath and judgment
I see the danger on your side and if you do not want to recognize this that is for you to decide
I will give you a hint:
Satan is the root perpetrator who has corrupted the Lord's Word on the issue of this post .... and many have and are following his song today .... the crowd grows more each day
And you will find many deceptions about other things attached to his trapping ... but you have to know the scriptures in order to detect them
This pied piper of pomp is the one who is telling you that the Lord's promise is bogus
Remember that this devil has not changed his stride [Genesis 3] .... he makes his plea that the Lord is a liar and for what purpose, to get you killed
And when he has convinced you of this he knows that you are vulnerable to his meeting in the tribulation with you ... this one will be on the earth conducting his ambitions to destroy all the Lord has made in one way or another
And the only ones who willing follow him after they get there will be those who think that there is something in it for them .... and they will gain his favor .... for a while, but then he will see to it that all of them go down with him
For you to say that today's ecclesia would not recognize Satan's overt and bold outward display of his hatred for Jesus Christ tells me that you simply don't read your Bible [Revelation 13:5-6]
Because of this it is one like you who will be deceived by his beast .... one who has already been told of these things in advance and takes them at face value would never miss such behavior as this and where it was coming from
Do you know that there are those who think that they are saved and are not?
.... this is an at risk position for the same who will enter the Devil's lair
Do you think that there are those who would lie to you and mislead you today on the matter of this thread? .... better believe it
Check your position .... the Lord could intervene before this day is over .... and in a flash He is going to do things that will shake this earth to its very foundations
Any who continue to post on this thread for arguments sake are wasting their time, and are making a mockery of the cause of Jesus Christ for those who look on
I will leave you with your ideas ..... and I can guarantee you one thing
If you go there you will know it immediately [Revelation 6:12-17] .... all on the face of the earth will know that they are under His terrible wrath and judgment
I see the danger on your side and if you do not want to recognize this that is for you to decide
I will give you a hint:
Satan is the root perpetrator who has corrupted the Lord's Word on the issue of this post .... and many have and are following his song today .... the crowd grows more each day
And you will find many deceptions about other things attached to his trapping ... but you have to know the scriptures in order to detect them
This pied piper of pomp is the one who is telling you that the Lord's promise is bogus
Remember that this devil has not changed his stride [Genesis 3] .... he makes his plea that the Lord is a liar and for what purpose, to get you killed
And when he has convinced you of this he knows that you are vulnerable to his meeting in the tribulation with you ... this one will be on the earth conducting his ambitions to destroy all the Lord has made in one way or another
And the only ones who willing follow him after they get there will be those who think that there is something in it for them .... and they will gain his favor .... for a while, but then he will see to it that all of them go down with him
For you to say that today's ecclesia would not recognize Satan's overt and bold outward display of his hatred for Jesus Christ tells me that you simply don't read your Bible [Revelation 13:5-6]
Because of this it is one like you who will be deceived by his beast .... one who has already been told of these things in advance and takes them at face value would never miss such behavior as this and where it was coming from
Do you know that there are those who think that they are saved and are not?
.... this is an at risk position for the same who will enter the Devil's lair
Do you think that there are those who would lie to you and mislead you today on the matter of this thread? .... better believe it
Check your position .... the Lord could intervene before this day is over .... and in a flash He is going to do things that will shake this earth to its very foundations
Any who continue to post on this thread for arguments sake are wasting their time, and are making a mockery of the cause of Jesus Christ for those who look on
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Good afternoon everyone. So I can see that we are all a little bit divided over this subject. It would seem that some feel these verses of Joel are regarding Satan's army and some do not, and some are preoccupied over the subject of pre versus post tribulation theory.
I thought I would better explain the motive behind wanting to have a garden of Eden before me and desert waste behind me (Joel 2:3).
For a long time now it has been the opposite. It seems that for long stretches there has been nothing but desert before me. So, for me, it kind of illustrates a turning of the tables and the ability to get justice from the ones who harmed me.
Now, regardless of who this is describing, as we approach the fulfillment of prophecy, it sure would be nice to have a garden of Eden in front of me for a change. I would imagine many people would agree if they were able to, if they were not discouraged by the church that such desires were ungodly. If there were not a misunderstanding in regards to a desire for justice verses a desire for revenge.
I would imagine many of the people living in poverty and suffering today would love the opportunity to have a garden of Eden before them and the end of their oppression.
Call it my own imprecatory Psalm for the times that we live in. My own psalm 69, and regardless of whether you feel I am rightly or wrongly interpreting the verse, I feel I am still still using scripture to search for a solution to the oppression in the world; whereas, much of the discussion that has been over pre-versus-post tribulation rapture does nothing to help those who are suffering as the fulfillment of prophecy approaches.
Isaiah 1:17 NIV
"Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
plead the case of the widow."
Just trying to do what I am told. May God bless us today with greater love for each other and greater discernment. In Jesus name.
I thought I would better explain the motive behind wanting to have a garden of Eden before me and desert waste behind me (Joel 2:3).
For a long time now it has been the opposite. It seems that for long stretches there has been nothing but desert before me. So, for me, it kind of illustrates a turning of the tables and the ability to get justice from the ones who harmed me.
Now, regardless of who this is describing, as we approach the fulfillment of prophecy, it sure would be nice to have a garden of Eden in front of me for a change. I would imagine many people would agree if they were able to, if they were not discouraged by the church that such desires were ungodly. If there were not a misunderstanding in regards to a desire for justice verses a desire for revenge.
I would imagine many of the people living in poverty and suffering today would love the opportunity to have a garden of Eden before them and the end of their oppression.
Call it my own imprecatory Psalm for the times that we live in. My own psalm 69, and regardless of whether you feel I am rightly or wrongly interpreting the verse, I feel I am still still using scripture to search for a solution to the oppression in the world; whereas, much of the discussion that has been over pre-versus-post tribulation rapture does nothing to help those who are suffering as the fulfillment of prophecy approaches.
Isaiah 1:17 NIV
"Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
plead the case of the widow."
Just trying to do what I am told. May God bless us today with greater love for each other and greater discernment. In Jesus name.
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T
Time Watcher
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I totally agree apple
And you do have the promise of the "garden" before you .... and this present world is fading fast behind you
Read this inspiring truth explained by Paul [Romans 8]
And you do have the promise of the "garden" before you .... and this present world is fading fast behind you
Read this inspiring truth explained by Paul [Romans 8]
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T
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The Lord will intervene just one time ... and His action will involve many things
At first the world will not see Him as He begins His day and He will accomplish many things .... then He will appear visibly just after the days of His hour of trial and judgment
to those mortals who survive it .... and He will rule the earth from Jerusalem with a rod of iron for 1000 years .... and just after His eternal kingdom will begin
.... the coming "Day of the Lord" spoken of by His prophets "in that day", "at that time"
At first the world will not see Him as He begins His day and He will accomplish many things .... then He will appear visibly just after the days of His hour of trial and judgment
to those mortals who survive it .... and He will rule the earth from Jerusalem with a rod of iron for 1000 years .... and just after His eternal kingdom will begin
.... the coming "Day of the Lord" spoken of by His prophets "in that day", "at that time"
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zeke37
IMO...
maybe i'll post mainly just scripture with you.
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
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T
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And that day has still not come yet
So there was no need for His ecclesia to be troubled .... they had not not missed the gathering unto Him [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58] .... and no need for worry today either
And it will be just after that "antichrist will come and those who are on the earth will know that the day of the Lord's tribulation and wrath has come .... the beginning of the day of the Lord [Revelation 6:6-17]
The false teaching that the day of the Lord had come began early in the 'Church" .... and there are those even today who do the same .... some say that the day of the Lord is present .... and some even that it has passed already
And some tell that the coming tribulation will not be His hour of trial and judgment that He will personally execute upon a world of unbelief .... that He will not be involved until it is over and it is this false teaching that will take many by surprise .... catching them off guard
..... and the gathering of His ecclesia will come first with no warning .... and then day of the Lord will begin with His terrible wrath and judgment [Psalms 2]
The time lapse of His hour of trial is documented in scripture and it will last for 2550 days of non stop tribulation upon the earth
So there was no need for His ecclesia to be troubled .... they had not not missed the gathering unto Him [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58] .... and no need for worry today either
And it will be just after that "antichrist will come and those who are on the earth will know that the day of the Lord's tribulation and wrath has come .... the beginning of the day of the Lord [Revelation 6:6-17]
The false teaching that the day of the Lord had come began early in the 'Church" .... and there are those even today who do the same .... some say that the day of the Lord is present .... and some even that it has passed already
And some tell that the coming tribulation will not be His hour of trial and judgment that He will personally execute upon a world of unbelief .... that He will not be involved until it is over and it is this false teaching that will take many by surprise .... catching them off guard
..... and the gathering of His ecclesia will come first with no warning .... and then day of the Lord will begin with His terrible wrath and judgment [Psalms 2]
The time lapse of His hour of trial is documented in scripture and it will last for 2550 days of non stop tribulation upon the earth
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zeke37
IMO...
nope. Paul says that THAT DAY, the day of His Coming and our gathering to Him,
happens after the son of perdition claims to be God.
so you are mistaken again....
and therefor u must be of the ones that are trying to deceive us by any means
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, asthat the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
so, until that happens, we can't be gathered to Him at that day2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, asthat the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
some say it is pre trib, before the son of perdition does his thing...
but Paul claims otherwise as we all have just read.
judgement begins at the 7th trump
it says so.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
every post tribber knows God allows Satan his wrath.
it actually further's God's plan
but the trib is still not HIS wrath.
HIS wrath falls on those that fail the beast's reign
what re you talking about?
the gathering is pre-empted by the Resurrection of the dead.
how is that not the BIGGEST SIGN EVER?
why do u think Jesus and the saints and the prophets
gave us all those signs that must take place first?
were they all wrong?
after the tribulation of those days as Mat24/Mar13 says
[/QUOTE]
bro. u are not a math major.
and again, u never deal with scripture.
it CANT contradict...
if it does, then YOU are mistaken in YOUR interpretation
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Nope .... I don't agree, I believe your interpretation is wrong
Why would believer be troubled by those teaching that the day of the Lord's wrath which will include the presence of the man of lawlessness and his followers .... according to you they would not .... you seek the tribulation as you tell .... so why would a Thessalonian believer be any different than you
What you present above makes no good sense and is not logical thinking
And you have no understanding with regard to the 70th week decreed by the Lord for Israel that is still pending [Daniel 9] .... the same as the Lord's coming hour of trial, the first part of the day of the Lord .... the period will last for 1260 days + 1260 days + 30 days .... and it is the Lord who will execute all of it [Satan will only be His dupe in the process]
Your understanding of this truth has been voided in your thinking by your mentors who teach error .... primarily that He is finished with Israel .... this is called replacement theology
The dividing of the Lord's tribulation judgments and His "wrath" at the end is a convenient invention of post-tribulation thinking .... the book of Revelation does not make this distinction
You will continue on with your effort to prove out your theology in vain as I see it
But for me to spend any time with you on the matter would be redundant and futile
I have no need to post on this thread going forward for you and have already demonstrated the truth about the matter .... you cannot seem to grasp
I am sure that you will pop up on other posts with your dogma and if it is in conjunction with anything that I have posted I am going to ignore you
My final advice to you is that you need to learn much more of the Lord's prophetic word before you paint yourself into a corner .... the study and presentation of the same is not for the novice
Continue on ..................
Why would believer be troubled by those teaching that the day of the Lord's wrath which will include the presence of the man of lawlessness and his followers .... according to you they would not .... you seek the tribulation as you tell .... so why would a Thessalonian believer be any different than you
What you present above makes no good sense and is not logical thinking
And you have no understanding with regard to the 70th week decreed by the Lord for Israel that is still pending [Daniel 9] .... the same as the Lord's coming hour of trial, the first part of the day of the Lord .... the period will last for 1260 days + 1260 days + 30 days .... and it is the Lord who will execute all of it [Satan will only be His dupe in the process]
Your understanding of this truth has been voided in your thinking by your mentors who teach error .... primarily that He is finished with Israel .... this is called replacement theology
The dividing of the Lord's tribulation judgments and His "wrath" at the end is a convenient invention of post-tribulation thinking .... the book of Revelation does not make this distinction
You will continue on with your effort to prove out your theology in vain as I see it
But for me to spend any time with you on the matter would be redundant and futile
I have no need to post on this thread going forward for you and have already demonstrated the truth about the matter .... you cannot seem to grasp
I am sure that you will pop up on other posts with your dogma and if it is in conjunction with anything that I have posted I am going to ignore you
My final advice to you is that you need to learn much more of the Lord's prophetic word before you paint yourself into a corner .... the study and presentation of the same is not for the novice
Continue on ..................
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