hiscosmicgoldfish
Liberal Anglican
I suspect that all this stuff from Tom Horn is more of his reaching, to write and sell another crap book.
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Thanks for writing about this. Your skepticism is well justified!
There are no Vatican secrets about UFOs. Neither I nor anyone I know has any evidence that extraterrestrials exist. We do not believe that "Jesus is a hybrid" or any of the other bizarre claims that these authors make.
More details can be found on my blog here: Specolations - Br. Guy Consolmagno, the Vatican, Alien Extraterrestrial UFOs, and stuff...
--Br Guy
About a year ago, an author (whom I will not name or link to) conducted an extensive interview with me by email. I thought he was a legitimate journalist. However, seeing the ways in which he has twisted, misquoted, and invented utter falsehoods from the things I said, I have come to suspect that he is either a knave or a fool.
Let me phrase this as strongly as I can: I do not know of any credible evidence at all that there has ever been contact of any form between extraterrestrial aliens and Earth. Period. I cannot imagine a circumstance where such contact could be kept secret for very long. And I say this, not only as an active astronomer for 40 years, but also as someone who knows lots of people in the SETI community (who would love to have such evidence), and as someone who's been an officer in the American Astronomical Society and in the International Astronomical Union. If there was something like this going on, we'd all be talking about it. There isn't, and we aren't.
That is a quote taken directly from one of the emails that I sent this author!
Here are some other things that I sent him in my emails:
… talking about Unidentified Flying Objects, which is to say, odd things seen in the sky, I have no problem with that. There are objects in the sky, presumably flying, that many people have a hard time identifying. "UFO" is certainly the right term for that! But once you insist that they are evidence of aliens, or government conspiracies, or for that matter once you try to fit these phenomena into any other preconceived notion, they are no longer "unidentified" -- you have implicitly identified them. And I am highly skeptical of any proposed identifications that rely on aliens, extraterrestrials, conspiracies, etc. … We have no artifacts from UFOs in our labs. We have nothing to test. Thus my skepticism.
In response to a question about "official positions from the Vatican" about extraterrestrial life, I wrote to him:
There are no "official Vatican positions" on such topics. Nor is it a new idea; you can find people talking about this over the last thousand years… I have no idea how the Church would respond. It has been the subject of any number of science fiction stories; most of them not very good, I'm afraid.
Finally, some of his material appears to have originated in an article that appeared in a British newspaper in 2005, apparently referring to something called "The Jesus Seed". When he asked me about it, I replied:
Virtually everything in this article (about me at least) is wrong... sometimes in trivial ways (I'm not a Star Trek fan), sometimes in important ways (nothing I said in my Catholic Truth Society booklet is new, much less controversial). Some of it might simply be the author's honest misunderstanding of what I was trying to say, because he read it in the light of his own unshakable prejudices… But most of it is pure invention on his part.
Thanks again NumberOneSon for your work!Maranatha, if you doubt any part of this email, here is a link to Consolmagno's info; you are more than welcome to ask him about the Horn interview for yourself, but as you can see he has already blogged about it.
Well, it took less than 24 hours for Br. Consolmagno to respond to my email. Here is his response in toto:
It looks like this issue has been brought to Consolmagno's attention before since his blog entry on the subject is from a week and a half ago. Here are the pertinent parts of the blog:
more...
more...
About the whole Jesus/alien seed issue...
Maranatha, if you doubt any part of this email, here is a link to Consolmagno's email; you are more than welcome to ask him about the Horn interview for yourself, but as you can see he has already blogged about it.
You've been duped and lied to by men pretending to be honest researchers who are trying to sell books by scaring people. Hope this is a lesson learned.
Absolutely not true; the issues I mentioned in the email are mirrored precisely in the book and video.Most of the issues in your response are twisted versions of what was covered in the evidence; as usual.
Of course you’re not, because you liked what Horn and Putnum said and you’ll back them up no matter what the evidence shows. You’re not interested in the truth, but only in what validates your point of view.I am not convinced in the least.
Nothing like a good ol’ anti-Catholicism rant to deflect from the real issue at hand (ie; “I won’t believe you because the Pope wears funny hats and I've read Hislop's version of history”. Brilliant.Tell me why I should trust a statement from an organization that is headed up by a guy that wears a hat shaped like a fish; and also claims he is the go between between myself and Jesus Christ. Look into pagan traditions and you will see these things originate.
Nope, your problems with Catholic theology have nothing to do with why you've been duped.If you can explain to me where this is mentioned in the Holy Bible, thereby adding credibility; I will believe your claim that I have been duped.
What?!?! What “official response”? I’m not a member of the press or an official of any kind - I’m a nobody who simply asked Consolmagno in a private email if what Horn said in the video was true!Of course they are going to deny this in "official" responses. The DEVIL knows that the person without discernment is going to buy the lie. That's who the lie is made for.
argumentum ad verecundiam fallacy. Next.Those out there who have done there homework know the difference, and they are the minority.
Yep….so maybe Consolmagna was lying to Horn about all that alien stuff in order to spread disinfo and discredit Horn. Whoah…I think I just blew my mind!Most every Governing organization of any kind has been known to lie constantly and consistently to suit their own best interests throughout history.
And yet you show absolutely no surprise or incredulity with the notion that a top Vatican scholar would divulge top secret alien information to a protestant author he doesn’t even know who just so happens to be writing a book linking the papacy to End Times prophecy? That doesn’t throw up even just a tinsy-tiny red flag in your mind?I am surprised he not throw in the usual "CONSPIRACY THEORY, CONSPIRACY THEORY" nonsense.
Why would that be a good reason? And why would they be fired if (as you say) the Vatican supports those views and popes have openly spoken about it?If the individual persons in the evidence I presented were to be FIRED and kicked out of their positions in the Catholic (which means "universal") Church, I would reconsider.
Which begs the question – why would these men have made “incredible statements about aliens/demons” in the first place if the information was classified? It makes no sense.Why would every single person involved in that organization not have been made to issue an official response withdrawing their statements after making these INCREDIBLE statements about aliens/demons?
Well probably because a.) the Catholic Church allows for a wide variety of beliefs on non-essential stuff, and b.) Consolmagna never actually said the things Horn claims he said, so the Catholic Church wouldn't have any reason to publicly rebuke Consolmagna. He's put a rebuttal up on his blog, so that should suffice.Why have they not been PUBLICLY REBUKED by the Vatican Leadership for misrepresenting the church?
I just love how you claim to know so much about what the Catholic Church should or should not do, despite the fact that you don't even bother to consult with Catholics about how their Church is run. You are so learned.Of course they would be, as their statements would be an insult to Christ believing Catholics worldwide. As a matter of preserving the integrity of the church, they would HAVE to be for such RADICAL statements.
Right…except when Tom Horn asks for an interview. In that case, Satan throws open the vault and let’s Tom access all of the cool, secret info that everyone else isn’t allowed to see. Sheesh.Satan, if you have not noticed, does not go about broadcasting his plans publicly.
LOL, again, unless it’s Tom Horn trying to dig up stuff for a book about the next pope ushering in the era of the Antichrist…in that case, Satan will tell Tom directly how he plans to fool the world…and then he’ll let Horn get on Sid Roth’s program and spill all the beans. Sounds to me like the devil is bipolar.He presents himself as an "angel of light" He is not going to tell you directly how he plans to fool most of the world; and a 5 year old would understand that. Instead, he laughs as you believe his lies.
So explain why “the man” would be direct and truthful to Tom Horn, but dishonest toward little, ol’ me? It seems counterproductive to deny information to me but freely divulge it to Horn, especially since you've already claimed that the Vatican and popes have spoken publicly in support of alien stuff. In that case, there would be no reason to misdirect.The man you received a reply from is MISDIRECTING.....the BEST alternative to outright LYING.
YES - because that's the entire POINT!! Horn believes the group running the Catholic Church WANTS the world to believe in an alien Jesus so when the “aliens” (err..demons) come to Earth people will be deceived, right? Isn’t that the point? If people don’t believe in star-children or alien gods then no one will be deceived when they arrive.Did you really think he would tell you the truth if he really DID believe what he has ALREADY stated?
Nope, the duped one is you, I’m afraid. Just like you were duped into believing the “Lucifer” device was named by the Church. You didn’t do your homework.You sir, have been duped. The only question is willingly or unwillingly.
I actually predicted half of Marantha's post, and wrote it, and was just about to publish it here then... thought it would be uncharitable. I wondered, for a moment, whether Marantha would for once choose to side with reason and evidence and would actually have the calm, level-headed humility to admit he was wrong for once. So I deleted my post, and simply thanked NumberOneSon again for his work.Most of the issues in your response are twisted versions of what was covered in the evidence; as usual.
I am not convinced in the least. Tell me why I should trust a statement from an organization that is headed up by a guy that wears a hat shaped like a fish; and also claims he is the go between between myself and Jesus Christ. Look into pagan traditions and you will see these things originate.
If you can explain to me where this is mentioned in the Holy Bible, thereby adding credibility; I will believe your claim that I have been duped.
Of course they are going to deny this in "official" responses. The DEVIL knows that the person without discernment is going to buy the lie. That's who the lie is made for. Those out there who have done there homework know the difference, and they are the minority.
Most every Governing organization of any kind has been known to lie constantly and consistently to suit their own best interests throughout history.
I am surprised he not throw in the usual "CONSPIRACY THEORY, CONSPIRACY THEORY" nonsense.
If the individual persons in the evidence I presented were to be FIRED and kicked out of their positions in the Catholic (which means "universal") Church, I would reconsider.
Why would every single person involved in that organization not have been made to issue an official response withdrawing their statements after making these INCREDIBLE statements about aliens/demons?
Why have they not been PUBLICLY REBUKED by the Vatican Leadership for misrepresenting the church?
Of course they would be, as their statements would be an insult to Christ believing Catholics worldwide. As a matter of preserving the integrity of the church, they would HAVE to be for such RADICAL statements.
Satan, if you have not noticed, does not go about broadcasting his plans publicly. He presents himself as an "angel of light" He is not going to tell you directly how he plans to fool most of the world; and a 5 year old would understand that. Instead, he laughs as you believe his lies.
The man you received a reply from is MISDIRECTING.....the BEST alternative to outright LYING.
Did you really think he would tell you the truth if he really DID believe what he has ALREADY stated?
You sir, have been duped. The only question is willingly or unwillingly.
Glory be to God
Marantha
To keep an eye on Satan, obviously. Apparently he can be seen with a big enough 'scope.Please validate your disbelief in this material by explaining to me why the Vatican would build and staff continuously a top resolution observatory on the top of Mount. Graham.
As has been noted several times, they didn't name it that. It's what it was called by the people who built it. It was a joke name based on its real name: Large Binocular Telescope Near-infrared Utility with Camera and Integral Field Unit for Extragalactic Research. And how is mocking "Lucifer" by using his name as a joke abominable? As Sir Thomas More said "the devil...the proud spirit cannot endure to be mocked"Then please explain why they would, as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, name an infared attachment to one of their telescopes the L.U.C.I.F.E.R. device; which is obviously an abomination to every believer in the Church.
Probably for the same reason that Brother Consolmagno was quoted as saying a bunch of stuff that he really didn't - Horn lied.Then please explain to those here why the VATICAN astronomers in that observatory are reporting seeing a steady enough stream of U.F.O's as to be ANNOYED by the multitude of sightings.
Baloney. Horn and Putnam lied their hindquarters off. You've bought into yet another fraud, M. It's a habit you ought to break.Without these explanations, just for a start, your points of disagreement stand invalid.
It's your job to find evidence for these bizarre X-Files claims, not our job to debunk all your strange claims.Please validate your disbelief in this material by explaining to me why the Vatican would build and staff continuously a top resolution observatory on the top of Mount. Graham.
If, in fact, gov'ts, gov't officials, and religious organizations (Christian ones, anyway) were doing any such thing you might have a point. But they're not. The in fact the only people who seem to believe in aliens at all, either of the ET or the demonic variety, are the folks who prattle about the Great Delusion. Let's face it, there ain't any aliens. Whether aliens are good or bad is a matter of no importance, because there aren't any aliens! The classic "I woke up and there was an alien in my room" tale is what up in Smith County we call "having a nightmare". It is't real. The Great Delusion is believing that fantasy stuff like that is real. It isn't.The fact that governments, government officials and religious organizations are declassifying information about "aliens" should send up a big red flag to those who know what the Bible has to say.
So which movie of teevee alien are we supposed to embrace as our new savior? ET? Worf? The Doctor? The alien from "Alien"? The saucer drivers from "To Serve Man"? Alf? Mr. Spock? The baddies from "Cowboys and Aliens"? The blue dudes from "Avatar" (aka "Dances With Aliens")? Stitch, from "Lilo and Stitch"? Which of these critters are we being programmed to accept as our redeemers? It must not be working for me, or anyone that I know.Add in the propaganda that Hollywood has been producing over the years to desensitize the public
Not really, because science is silent on the topic, when it's not openly doubtful. The fact that there's no radio frequency radiation of the sort that ought to be produced by any sufficiently advanced civilization argues loudly against the existence of ET aliens who could manage to get here and annoy us. If it's demons trying to pass themselves off as ETs, why wouldn't they try something a little more plausible. A good grifter doesn't tell his mark a story that he won't believe, he makes it sound as plausible and straightforward as possible. The confidence man can't rook you until he has your confidence, and he doesn't get it claiming to be Napoleon, or a Man From Mars, or Czar of All the Russias. Demons, being experts at lying and deception, know this. So why would they choose a cover that's patently incredible, or one that's so likely to excite fear and loathing?, and we're one glorious day away from that delusion being established on earth as scientific fact with those "in the know" confirming it.
So which movie of teevee alien are we supposed to embrace as our new savior? ET? Worf? The Doctor? The alien from "Alien"? The saucer drivers from "To Serve Man"? Alf? Mr. Spock? The baddies from "Cowboys and Aliens"? The blue dudes from "Avatar" (aka "Dances With Aliens")? Stitch, from "Lilo and Stitch"? Which of these critters are we being programmed to accept as our redeemers? It must not be working for me, or anyone that I know.
Not too good, as I recall.Didn't these guys see Prometheus!? Guy Pearce goes up there as the trillionarie who wants to live forever and thinks the aliens are going to grant him eternal life... How'd that work out for him?
Marantha wrote:
It's your job to find evidence for these bizarre X-Files claims, not our job to debunk all your strange claims.
That's not the issue we are contesting....the telescope and observatory are definitely real. Also, I don't believe the Vatican has declared that there are extra-terrestrials for certain; but it has said if there is other life somewhere in outer space then this new information would still be compatible with their faith. In other words, Christianity can still be true even if aliens exist on other planets because they would be God's creations as well.Last week I watched a show on television showing the observatory and the telescope under discussion. It's quite real. Along with the video was the declaration of the vatican now saying that because there are extra-terrestrials doesn't mean there is no God.
It isn't X-files.
That's not the issue we are contesting....the telescope and observatory are definitely real. Also, I don't believe the Vatican has declared that there are extra-terrestrials for certain; but it has said if there is other life somewhere in outer space then this new information would still be compatible with their faith. In other words, Christianity can still be true even if aliens exist on other planets because they would be God's creations as well.
Do you believe there are visitors to earth that are not of earth?