The Fool Says there is No God.

"If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits."
--Dan Barker

Nice quote. Describes atheism just as well as theism.  It's amazing that you quoted this as support of atheism.

Originally posted by Neo
It wasn't logically proven.

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By the logic of mathematics. Too bad the bees didn't listen.

Originally posted by Neo
I don't need to show how nature excludes God, because the idea of God excludes nature.

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You wrote in another post: "Science says that everything has a natural explanation, and therefore excludes God."

That says that natural excludes God.  You have to back that claim.  It seems you are unable to do so, so now you are trying to change the claim.

How does God exclude "nature"?

Theologians and scientists have never thought so. After all, the idea is that God creates and sustains nature.

Originally posted by JohnR7 Factor and calculate are interesting words. First of all, the Bible says to judge no man before his time.

You claimed that Christians were at a "higher" level than non-Christians. In order to make that kind of comparison, you have to have some way to quantify loving and caring.  "Calculate" and "factor" are terms used in quantifying.

I find it interesting that you used the word "judge" as in we shouldn't judge.  You whole discussion about the relationship of Christians to non-Christians or "infidels" is one huge judgement.


I have reason to believe that God is going to save 1/3 of mankind. Jesus said, few will be saved, many will perish. Still, I believe that few can mean 1/3 and many can mean 2/3.

Where did this proportion 1/3 come from?  I certainly didn't introduce a number.  Where did you get one? Also, this doesn't address the issue of quantifying "loving" and "caring" in order to decide whether Christians are more of these than non-Christians.

Serving God is NOT a requirement for salvation.

Are you reading my posts, or responding at random? The passage says that you are to love God. However, there are several passages where Jesus states that if you do not behave well to others, you are not behaving well to him. And since Jesus is God, doesn't it follow that you have to serve God for salvation? 

Redemption is a free gift.

Doesn't it have to be requested? Don't you have to request forgiveness of your sins before they are forgiven?

God is very exacting in who He will use to represent Him. Although He will use anyone who is willing and makes themselves available. They must submit to His rather strict requirements of righteouness. Not many are willing to yeild and submit in this way.

Is being used to represent Him the same as redemption? I'm wondering because "submit" and "use" sound a lot like "serve".

John, I really think you should go into another forum and discuss your theology, because it does not seem to me to be consistent with orthodox Christian theology. I'm obviously not the one to provide peer-review for your theology, since I am just following what Christian theologians state about Christian theology.  You need some real theologians to do peer-review on what you are promulgating. 

Originally posted by lucaspa
"If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits."
--Dan Barker

Nice quote. Describes atheism just as well as theism. It's amazing that you quoted this as support of atheism.

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No it doesn't. Like I said before, not even strong atheism is based on faith. Fatih is defined as belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Since there is logical proof for the non-existence of God, it doesn't require faith to believe in the non-existence of God.

Originally posted by lucaspa
How does God exclude "nature"?

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God is defined as a supernatural being, and supernatural is defined as existence outside of nature.

Originally posted by Neo
Fatih is defined as belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Since there is logical proof for the non-existence of God, it doesn't require faith to believe in the non-existence of God.

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Sure it does. It requires faith that said proof is correct.

FWIW, Barker's "proof" at best only proves that one kind of god does not exist.

Originally posted by JohnR7
Also, the church I attend believes that in next 7 years or so. Half the people in this world are going to accept Christianity. Then some will fall away, but one third will remain and be saved.

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Here's a tip for you then: DON'T DRINK THE KOOL-AID!

So 1/2 the people in the world will accept Christianty (3 billion or so). Then some will fall away but a third will remain.

1/3 of 6 billion is 2 billion.

There are about 2 billion Christians in the world at the moment.

If you mean 1/3 of the 1/2, that is 1 billion, so it will actually mean that there will be less Christians then than now.

Or do you mean "True Christians" rather than just Christians?

 

Originally posted by s0uljah


"Matthew 7:22
But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without cause shall be in danger of the judgement: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, <I>thou fool,</I> shall be in danger of hell fire."

No fair, I was gonna post that!

Of course, you aren't his brother, so he can point out foolisness all he wants.

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So whenever Jesus talks about brotherhood, he literally means blood relations only?

There is also such a thing as Righteous Anger.

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There is also such a thing as a double standard. Sounds like Christians only have to follow the rules when dealing with each other. Anything goes against non-believers, eh?

&nbsp;

With all due respect...what the heck are we fighting about, and how the heck does it relate to the creation-evolution debate?

Originally posted by LiveFreeOrDie
Sure it does. It requires faith that said proof is correct.

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Not faith, reason.

Originally posted by Rising Tree
With all due respect...what the heck are we fighting about, and how the heck does it relate to the creation-evolution debate?

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so far, john's attitude has shown me that he is not at all creditable.&nbsp; any respect i had for him has vanished.

Huh? Credibility is a two-way street....

Originally posted by JohnR7
There are already 2 billion Christians in the world?

I think it will be one third from every nation. So one third of China will be saved and one third of Africa and one third of India and so forth.

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Yes.

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

It will be exact? What about nations that change - for example, we have a new nation just to the north of us, Timor? Will any splits in nations split exactly down the lines of 1/3 Christian?

So with 1/3 of the world Christian already, all that is going to happen is that they are going to move around into various countries.

As to India or Iran&nbsp;getting to the stage of being 1/3 Christian in the next 50 years, that would truly be a miracle, expeically in India where fundamentalist Hinduism is making huge gains in popularity.