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The Fool Says there is No God.

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by JohnR7, Dec 17, 2002.

  1. lucaspa

    lucaspa Legend

    +373
    Methodist
    Private
    "If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits."
    --Dan Barker


    Nice quote. Describes atheism just as well as theism.  It's amazing that you quoted this as support of atheism.
     
  2. lucaspa

    lucaspa Legend

    +373
    Methodist
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    By the logic of mathematics. Too bad the bees didn't listen.
     
  3. lucaspa

    lucaspa Legend

    +373
    Methodist
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    You wrote in another post: "Science says that everything has a natural explanation, and therefore excludes God."

    That says that natural excludes God.  You have to back that claim.  It seems you are unable to do so, so now you are trying to change the claim.

    How does God exclude "nature"?

    Theologians and scientists have never thought so. After all, the idea is that God creates and sustains nature.
     
  4. lucaspa

    lucaspa Legend

    +373
    Methodist
    Private
    Originally posted by JohnR7 Factor and calculate are interesting words. First of all, the Bible says to judge no man before his time.

    You claimed that Christians were at a "higher" level than non-Christians. In order to make that kind of comparison, you have to have some way to quantify loving and caring.  "Calculate" and "factor" are terms used in quantifying.

    I find it interesting that you used the word "judge" as in we shouldn't judge.  You whole discussion about the relationship of Christians to non-Christians or "infidels" is one huge judgement.


    I have reason to believe that God is going to save 1/3 of mankind. Jesus said, few will be saved, many will perish. Still, I believe that few can mean 1/3 and many can mean 2/3.

    Where did this proportion 1/3 come from?  I certainly didn't introduce a number.  Where did you get one? Also, this doesn't address the issue of quantifying "loving" and "caring" in order to decide whether Christians are more of these than non-Christians.

    Serving God is NOT a requirement for salvation.

    Are you reading my posts, or responding at random? The passage says that you are to love God. However, there are several passages where Jesus states that if you do not behave well to others, you are not behaving well to him. And since Jesus is God, doesn't it follow that you have to serve God for salvation? 

    Redemption is a free gift.

    Doesn't it have to be requested? Don't you have to request forgiveness of your sins before they are forgiven?

    God is very exacting in who He will use to represent Him. Although He will use anyone who is willing and makes themselves available. They must submit to His rather strict requirements of righteouness. Not many are willing to yeild and submit in this way.

    Is being used to represent Him the same as redemption? I'm wondering because "submit" and "use" sound a lot like "serve".

    John, I really think you should go into another forum and discuss your theology, because it does not seem to me to be consistent with orthodox Christian theology. I'm obviously not the one to provide peer-review for your theology, since I am just following what Christian theologians state about Christian theology.  You need some real theologians to do peer-review on what you are promulgating. 
     
  5. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    I suppose the word infidel is commonly used by christians and muslims to mean a non believer in their faith.



    When a person becomes born again, they take on the mind of Christ and the Divine thoughts of God. Also, they take on a new heart. You have to have discernment to know, what is of man, what if of the devil and what is of God. God's thoughts are higher than man's thoughts. God's wisdom, knowledge and understanding is higher than man's wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

    So I would think that a Scientist is interested in things like wisdom, knowledge and understanding. So a Christian would make a better Scientist than a non Christian.
     
  6. Neo

    Neo the one

    +18
    No it doesn't. Like I said before, not even strong atheism is based on faith. Fatih is defined as belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Since there is logical proof for the non-existence of God, it doesn't require faith to believe in the non-existence of God.
     
  7. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    I am doing the best I can. Your a very deep thinker and you have a very inquisitive mind. You come up with a lot of questions. Plus there are others on this thread asking me questions. On top of that my wife is working and I am watching our 4 year old, and he keeps wanting me to watch TV with him.

    Some things you ask I have never thought about and so I need to think them through. Other things I have thought about and I am already pretty much have an answer for them.
     
  8. Neo

    Neo the one

    +18
    God is defined as a supernatural being, and supernatural is defined as existence outside of nature.
     
  9. LiveFreeOrDie

    LiveFreeOrDie Science Officer

    983
    +1
    Sure it does. It requires faith that said proof is correct.

    FWIW, Barker's "proof" at best only proves that one kind of god does not exist.
     
  10. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
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    Zech. 13:8-9  And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. [9] And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

    Zechariah tells us that God is going to save one third of the people. The referance here is to Isreal. But God is no respector of persons. He does not favor one person, or one nation, tribe or people over another.

    Also, the church I attend believes that in next 7 years or so. Half the people in this world are going to accept Christianity. Then some will fall away, but one third will remain and be saved.
     
  11. LiveFreeOrDie

    LiveFreeOrDie Science Officer

    983
    +1
    Here's a tip for you then: DON'T DRINK THE KOOL-AID!
     
  12. David Gould

    David Gould Pearl Harbor sucked. WinAce didn't.

    +487
    Atheist
    AU-Labor
    So 1/2 the people in the world will accept Christianty (3 billion or so). Then some will fall away but a third will remain.

    1/3 of 6 billion is 2 billion.

    There are about 2 billion Christians in the world at the moment.

    If you mean 1/3 of the 1/2, that is 1 billion, so it will actually mean that there will be less Christians then than now.

    Or do you mean "True Christians" rather than just Christians?

     :scratch: :confused:
     
  13. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    The question of "what must a man do to be saved?" Should be open for discussion anywhere, anytime.

    As far as questions about the Bride of Christ, the Rapture, Baptism in the Holy Spirit and so forth. I suppose your right, another forum maybe better for a discussion on those topics.

    The purpose of this thread was to discuss what the Bible has to say about wisdom, knowledge and understanding. But this comes though being filled with the Holy Spirit.

    Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

    1 Kings 4:29-30  And God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much, ... And Solomon's wisdom excelled the wisdom of all the children of the east country, and all the wisdom of Egypt.

    If God could give Solomon wisdom that excelled beyond the wisdom of his day. God can do the same for us today.

    Proverbs 3:13  Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.

    Proverbs 16:16  How much better is it to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver!

    Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

    Proverbs 24:3 Through wisdom is an house builded; and by understanding it is established:






     
     
  14. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
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    There are already 2 billion Christians in the world?

    I think it will be one third from every nation. So one third of China will be saved and one third of Africa and one third of India and so forth.
     
  15. Nathan Poe

    Nathan Poe Well-Known Member

    +1,582
    Agnostic
    US-Democrat
    So whenever Jesus talks about brotherhood, he literally means blood relations only? :scratch:

    There is also such a thing as a double standard. Sounds like Christians only have to follow the rules when dealing with each other. Anything goes against non-believers, eh?

     
     
  16. Risen Tree

    Risen Tree previously Rising Tree

    +307
    Atheist
    In Relationship
    US-Democrat
    With all due respect...what the heck are we fighting about, and how the heck does it relate to the creation-evolution debate? :rolleyes:
     
  17. Neo

    Neo the one

    +18
    Not faith, reason.
     
  18. Orihalcon

    Orihalcon crazy dancing santa mage

    595
    +3
    so far, john's attitude has shown me that he is not at all creditable.  any respect i had for him has vanished.
     
  19. Risen Tree

    Risen Tree previously Rising Tree

    +307
    Atheist
    In Relationship
    US-Democrat
    ^_^ Huh? Credibility is a two-way street....
     
  20. David Gould

    David Gould Pearl Harbor sucked. WinAce didn't.

    +487
    Atheist
    AU-Labor
    Yes.

    http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

    It will be exact? What about nations that change - for example, we have a new nation just to the north of us, Timor? Will any splits in nations split exactly down the lines of 1/3 Christian?

    So with 1/3 of the world Christian already, all that is going to happen is that they are going to move around into various countries.

    As to India or Iran getting to the stage of being 1/3 Christian in the next 50 years, that would truly be a miracle, expeically in India where fundamentalist Hinduism is making huge gains in popularity.
     
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