Reve 16 and Great Hail question

squint · Mar 20, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
Greetings. How do other Christians here view this event in Reve 16:21. Is the hailstones falling from Heaven literal or is it symbolic. This is the only place in the NT that uses this word though it is used a number of times in the OT. Please just keep this on the topic of the "hailstones". Thanks

Reve 16:21 And Hail/calaza <5464>great as talent-weight is descending out of the Heaven upon the Men, and blaspheme the God the Men out of the blow of the Hail/calazhV <5464> , that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous. [LXX # 5464 used in Ezekiel 38:22]

Textus Rec.) Revelation 16:21 kai calaza megalh wV talantiaia katabainei ek tou ouranou epi touV anqrwpouV kai eblasfhmhsan oi anqrwpoi ton qeon ek thV plhghV thV calazhV oti megalh estin h plhgh authV sfodra

5464. chalaza khal'-ad-zah probably from 5465; hail:--hail. Used 4 times Reve 8:7, 11:19, Reve 16:21 [2 times]
5465. chalao khal-ah'-o from the base of 5490; to lower (as into a void):--let down, strike.

Originally Posted by squint Spin it however you see it. Don't recall any history of 100lb hailstones

WATER is often equated with THE WORD. That trail leads from under the threshold and will 'someday' be 'waters to SWIM in.'

But to GODS ENEMIES that same WORD will be hardened. Yes even into 100LB hailstones and it will KILL Gods enemies, UTTERLY destroying THEM. It will be MERCILESS! And BLOODY! And the more they get HIT the more those hit will CURSE HIM and RESIST Him!

hmmmm....do you think you can survive a BLOW by a 100lb hailstone lloj?

I'd venture ONE HARD 100lb WORD could make 10,000 enemies curse or flee. I'd venture the jawbone of ONE ASS in the RIGHT HAND could slay thousands of men.

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 20, 2009

PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter said:
I believe these to be symbolic. I also believe this is something that happened in the 1st century in the sacking of Jersualem by the Romans. The hailstones described are actually boulders that were thrown from the Roman catapults. Josephus describes the event in detail. The stones were white and also weighed one talent. So, in my opinion, it's an already fulfilled prophecy. The huge white boulders looked like hailstones falling from heaven.

Any one have any idea what weight this would be symbolizing?

Reve 16:21 And Hail/calaza <5464> great as talent-weight/talantiaia <5006> is descending out of the Heaven upon the Men, and blaspheme the God the Men out of the blow of the Hail/calazhV <5464> , that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous. [# 5464 used in Ezekiel 38:22]

5006. talantiaios tal-an-tee-ah'-yos from 5007; talent-like in weight:--weight of a talent.
5007. talanton tal'-an-ton neuter of a presumed derivative of the original form of tlao (to bear; equivalent to 5342); a balance (as supporting weights), i.e. (by implication) a certain weight (and thence a coin or rather sum of money) or "talent":--talent.

JHM · Mar 21, 2009

I believe that the plague of "Hailstones" weighing a "Talent" or a "Hundredweight", is the final plague upon Babylon. But we are also told that the :

Revelations 17 16-18 (Revised Standard Version)
"And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beastwill hatethe harlot; theywill make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose" ... "And the woman which you saw is the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth."

Try Looking at it this way :

Revelations 13 1-3 (Jerusalem Bible)
Then I saw a beast emerge from the sea: it had seven heads and ten horns, ... the dragon had handed over to it his own power and his throne and his worldwide authority. I saw that one of its heads seemed to have had a fatal wound but that this deadly injury had healed ...

Revelations 17 3-5 (Revised Standard Version)
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a wilderness, and I saw a woman (arrayed in purple and scarlet and bedecked with gold and jewels) sitting on a scarlet beast ... and it had seven heads and ten horns ... and on her forehead was written a name of mystery: Babylon the great, ....

Revelations 17 7-8 (Revised Standard Version)
... the angel said to me, ... I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. The beast that you saw was, and is not ... .

Revelations 17 9-11 (Revised Standard Version)
... the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other is not yet come, and when he comes he must remain only a little while. As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, ....

Try sticking the seven headed beast on the G7, and see what you get. 7 Heads, = 7 voting members. 5 Heads that are mountains that are kings who have fallen = 5 voting members that are ex world great powers : France, Italy, Germany, Japan, and England. 1 Head that is a mountain that is a king that is = 1 voting member that is a currant world great power : The United States. 1 Head that is a mountain that is a king that has not yet come = 1 voting member that has never been a world great power : Canada. 1 Head that has recovered from a mortal wound = split into four parts and put back together : Germany. The beast that was and is not that is an eighth that is one of the seven = The non voting, (observer status), eighth member of the G7 : Russia, which as the U.S.S.R, was a world great power; but as Russia is not accounted as such.

NOTE : Who is the "Harlot" that rides the seven headed beast ? Who controls the G7 ?

Isaiah 13 19 (Jerusalem Bible)
Babylon the pearl of the kingdoms

Isaiah 47 5 (New International Version)
Queen of kingdoms

Isaiah 47 5 (Jerusalem Bible)
Sovereign lady of the kingdoms

Revelations 17 1 (Jerusalem Bible)
... the great prostitute who rules enthroned beside abundant waters, ...

Revelations 17 16-18 (Revised Standard Version)
...the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth.

THE DESTRUCTION OF BABYLON

Revelations 17 16-18 (Revised Standard Version)
And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the harlot; they will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose ... And the woman which you saw is the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth.

Isaiah 47 7-8 (New American Standard Version)
...you said, I shall be a queen forever... I am , and there is no one beside me. I shall not sit as a widow, nor shall I know loss of children. ("The World's Only Superpower")

Revelations 18 7 (New International Version) (of Babylon) ... in her heart she boasts, I sit as a queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.

Revelations 18 8 (King James Version)
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death and mourning and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire ...

Revelations 18 4-5 (Revised Standard Version)
Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, Come out of her my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues; for her sins are heaped as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

Revelations 16 17 (Revised Standard Version)
The seventh angel poured his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple, from the throne, saying It is done!

Revelations 16 21 (Revised Standard Version)
and great hailstones, heavy as a hundredweight, dropped on men from heaven, till men cursed God for the plague of hail, so fearful was that plague.

Revelations 18 9-10 (Revised Standard Version)
And the kings of the earth, who committed fornication and were wanton with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning; they will stand far off, ... and say Alas! Alas! Thou great city, thou mighty city, Babylon! In one hour has thy judgement come.
Revelations 18 11 (Darby Translation)
And the merchants of the earth weep and grieve over her, since no one buys their lading (or Merchandise) anymore,

NOTE : The Foregoing passage is followed by a list of every luxury know to the ancients.

Revelations 18 15-17 (Revised Standard Version)
The merchants of these wares, who gained wealth from her, will stand far off, ... weeping and mourning aloud, Alas, alas, for the great city ... bedecked with gold, with jewels, and pearls! ... In one hour all this wealth has been laid waste.

NOTE : Those who are closer do not survive to mourn

Revelations 18 17-19 (Revised Standard Version)
And all shipmasters ... and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning, What city was like the great city? ... Alas, alas, for the great city where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth! In one hour she has been laid waste.

Isaiah 47 14 (Revised Standard Version)
...and the fire consumes them; they cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame. No coal for warming oneself is this, no fire to sit before!

NOTE : Think Nukes, ("Great Hailstones Heavy As A Hundredweight" that destroy by fire, sent by the beast that is an eighth that is one of the seven), and you will understand why this is no fire to sit and warm yourself by.

NOTE: When the Iraqis set the Kuwaiti oilfields on fire, the temperature in Kuwait dropped 20 degrees Fahrenheit, because the smoke from the fires blocked the sun. This despite the fact that there were massive uncontrolled fires burning; and the fact that the phenomena was local, so there was still warm air being transferred by wind currents from unaffected adjacent countries. This is the same principle on which the Nuclear Winter theory put forward by Carl Sagan is based.

More Photos of the Kuwaiti Oilfields burning :

Darkness at Midday, March 12, 1991

As Dark as it Gets, Mid-morning, March 24, 1991

Inside the compound at Camp Freedom. There was no daylight visible horizon
to horizon.

Other "Broad Daylight" photos

Matthew 24 20-22 (King James Version)
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should be no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened.

Question: If the air temperature in Kuwait dropped 20 degrees Fahrenheit because of local oilfield fires, how much would the temperature drop if there were a global nuclear exchange, wherein the whole world was covered in smoke, and there was no warm air from unaffected areas to alleviate the temperature drop? How long would it take for the atmosphere to clear enough for temperatures and growing seasons to return to normal?

Isaiah 13 9-10 (Jerusalem Bible)
The day of Yahweh is coming, merciless with wrath and fierce anger, to reduce the earth to a desert and root out the sinners from it. For the stars of the sky and Orion shall not let their light shine; and the sun shall be dark when it rises, and the moon shall not shed her light.

Joel 4 15 (Jerusalem Bible)
The Day of Yahweh - Sun and moon grow dark, the stars lose their brilliance.

Amos 8 9 (Jerusalem Bible)
Prediction of a mysterious punishment: darkness and mourning - That day it is the Lord Yahweh who speaks I will make the sun go down at noon, and darken the earth in broad daylight. ...

NOTE : Consider a world which is pitch dark and bitterly cold, where there is no electricity or fuel oil deliveries, because the sources and means of delivery have all been destroyed or disrupted. Consider too, that there is no food grown for a period of months; and perhaps even years; because there is no sunlight for photosynthesis. Consider a world where it is every man for himself. How many people will survive such a catastrophe?

Isaiah 13 12 (Jerusalem Bible)
I will make men scarcer than pure gold, human life scarcer than the gold of Ophir.

NOTE : And yet as promised in Matthew 24 22, those days have been shortened. The Americans and Russians at one time had 22,000 nuclear weapons each; but since nuclear disarmament they have reduced their stockpiles to 3,000 and 3,500 respectively, assuming neither has been cheating.

NOTE : Were all this not enough, for Babylon, there is more.

Revelations 18 21 (Revised Standard Version)
Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, So shall Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence, and shall be found no more.

Revelations 16 18-19 (Revised Standard Version)
And there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, and a great earthquake such as had never been since men were on the earth, so great was that earthquake, The great city was split into three parts, ...

Jeremiah 51 41-42 (Jerusalem Bible)
An elegy for Babylon - What! Is she captured and conquered, the admiration of all the world? What! Babylon become a thing of horror throughout the nations? The sea has risen over Babylon, she sinks under its boisterous waves.

SummaScriptura · Mar 21, 2009

Evergreen48 · Mar 21, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
Greetings. How do other Christians here view this event in Reve 16:21. Is the hailstones falling from Heaven literal or is it symbolic. This is the only place in the NT that uses this word though it is used a number of times in the OT. Please just keep this on the topic of the "hailstones". Thanks

Since there is nothing else in the visions in the book of Revelation that I can see as being literal, I can't think why I should take the hail stones as being literal either.

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 21, 2009

Evergreen48 said:
Since there is nothing else in the visions in the book of Revelation that I can see as being literal, I can't think why I should take the hail stones as being literal either.

Thanks for your view and vote..... :wave:

Sierra162 · Mar 21, 2009

SummaScriptura said:
.

I agree with Summa

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 21, 2009

JHM said:
I believe that the plague of "Hailstones" weighing a "Talent" or a "Hundredweight", is the final plague upon Babylon. But we are also told that the :.......................

Thank you and that was interesting.

SummaScriptura · Mar 21, 2009

Sierra162 said:
I agree with Summa

You're bad! ^_^

christianmomof3 · Mar 21, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
Greetings. How do other Christians here view this event in Reve 16:21. Is the hailstones falling from Heaven literal or is it symbolic.

I am sorry, but I read through and no one has given this answer yet and it was the first thing that popped into my head when I read the title so I just have to say it -

:sorry:

hail if I know!

Sierra162 · Mar 21, 2009

christianmomof3 said:
I am sorry, but I read through and no one has given this answer yet and it was the first thing that popped into my head when I read the title so I just have to say it -

hail if I know!

that was good

I still like Summa's profound

.

best but yours it great too.

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 14, 2009

christianmomof3 said:
I am sorry, but I read through and no one has given this answer yet and it was the first thing that popped into my head when I read the title so I just have to say it -

hail if I know!

Best quote I have seen yet

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 23, 2009

I forgot about this thread....thanks to those who have participated so far :wave:

pgp_protector · Apr 23, 2009

Looking for valid references, but If I recall correctly some of the earlier atomic blast test in the ocean did cause massive 100+ Pound hail stones.

Secundulus · Apr 23, 2009

I believe it is both symbolic and real. It is symbolic over the final victory of Christ when he returns to destroy all evil. It is real in that it is going to happen. Maybe real hailstones will fall, or maybe some other event will occur.

LittleLambofJesus · Jun 22, 2009

Since there appears to be so many new members appearing here on the GT board, I thought I would bring this thread up for discussion again....... :wave:

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 8, 2009

shameless bump..........

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 22, 2009

ThomasDa · Sep 23, 2009

There is no reason to think it's not literal.
God said it without explaination.
There is no other mention of this event in the Bible.
So I'm just going to go with what God said in plain language.
I trust Him. You?

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 8, 2009

oh my.....I forgot about his thread!

Reve 16 and Great Hail question

Hail from Heaven in Reve 16 literal or symbolic

Yes I believe they are literal hail stones from Heaven

No I believe it is symbolic

I have no view on it right now

Other please explain

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