Reve 16 and Great Hail question

[LittleLambofJesus]

i thinks it's literal....it speaks of an indescribably awful time...those kinds of hailstones fit such awfulness

Is it speaking of hailstones made of ice or regular stones?

Isaiah 30:30 And caused to be heard hath YAHWEH the honour of His voice, And the coming down of His arm He doth shew with the raging of anger and the flame of a consuming fire, scattering and inundation and hailstone.

 

[granpa]

Greetings. How do other Christians here view this event in Reve 16:21. Is the hailstones falling from Heaven literal or is it symbolic. This is the only place in the NT that uses this word though it is used a number of times in the OT. Please just keep this on the topic of the "hailstones". Thanks

Reve 16:21 And Hail/calaza <5464>great as talent-weight is descending out of the Heaven upon the Men, and blaspheme the God the Men out of the blow of the Hail/calazhV <5464> , that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous. [LXX # 5464 used in Ezekiel 38:22]

Textus Rec.) Revelation 16:21 kai calaza megalh wV talantiaia katabainei ek tou ouranou epi touV anqrwpouV kai eblasfhmhsan oi anqrwpoi ton qeon ek thV plhghV thV calazhV oti megalh estin h plhgh authV sfodra

5464. chalaza khal'-ad-zah probably from 5465; hail:--hail. Used 4 times Reve 8:7, 11:19, Reve 16:21 [2 times]
5465. chalao khal-ah'-o from the base of 5490; to lower (as into a void):--let down, strike.

Originally Posted by squint Spin it however you see it. Don't recall any history of 100lb hailstones

where do you get your quotes from?
I can never find anything that tells about the septuagint usage of greek words.

 

[usexpat97]

My observation is that severe thunderstorms are getting more severe, albeit thunderstorms period appear to be happening less often. I see nothing far-fetched about really large hail--only a natural progression of the gradually worsening weather patterns we are already seeing today. Furthermore, it is not physically impossible--we have had human beings literally stuck in the sky before after ejecting from airplanes. It's like being stuck in a hydraulic in white water, only this is air. The air is very much capable of not letting 200-pound human beings drop when the clouds get violent enough. Known fact, witnessed firsthand.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Reve 16:21 And Hail/calaza <5464>great as talent-weight is descending out of the Heaven upon the Men, and blaspheme the God the Men out of the blow of the Hail/calazhV <5464> , that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous. [LXX # 5464 used in Ezekiel 38:22]

5464. chalaza probably from 5465; hail:--hail. Used 4 times Reve 8:7, 11:19, Reve 16:21 [2 times]
5465. chalao from the base of 5490; to lower (as into a void):--let down, strike.

where do you get your quotes from?
I can never find anything that tells about the septuagint usage of greek words.

I don't have access to the site I normally use for the LXX, but you can do a search for LLX/septuagint. Will get back to this when I can

Academic Bible: Read the Bible text

LXX) Ezekiel 38:22 &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#954;&#961;&#953;&#957;&#8182; &#945;&#8016;&#964;&#8056;&#957; &#952;&#945;&#957;&#8049;&#964;&#8179; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#945;&#7989;&#956;&#945;&#964;&#953; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#8017;&#949;&#964;&#8183; &#954;&#945;&#964;&#945;&#954;&#955;&#8059;&#950;&#959;&#957;&#964;&#953; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#955;&#8055;&#952;&#959;&#953;&#962; &#967;&#945;&#955;&#8049;&#950;&#951;&#962;, &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#960;&#8166;&#961; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#952;&#949;&#8150;&#959;&#957; &#946;&#961;&#8051;&#958;&#969; &#7952;&#960;&#8125; &#945;&#8016;&#964;&#8056;&#957; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#7952;&#960;&#8054; &#960;&#8049;&#957;&#964;&#945;&#962; &#964;&#959;&#8058;&#962; &#956;&#949;&#964;&#8125; &#945;&#8016;&#964;&#959;&#8166; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#7952;&#960;&#8125; &#7956;&#952;&#957;&#951; &#960;&#959;&#955;&#955;&#8048; &#956;&#949;&#964;&#8125; &#945;&#8016;&#964;&#959;&#8166;.

Young) Ezekiel 38:22 And I have been judged with him, With pestilence and with blood, and an overflowing rain and hailstones, fire
and brimstone I rain on him, and on his bands, And on many peoples who [are] with him.

Textus Rec.) Revelation 16:21 kai calaza megalh wV talantiaia katabainei ek tou ouranou epi touV anqrwpouV kai eblasfhmhsan oi anqrwpoi ton qeon ek thV plhghV thV calazhV oti megalh estin h plhgh authV sfodra

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
i thinks it's literal....it speaks of an indescribably awful time...those kinds of hailstones fit such awfulness

Is it speaking of hailstones made of ice or regular stones?

Isaiah 30:30 And caused to be heard hath YAHWEH the honour of His voice, And the coming down of His arm He doth shew with the raging of anger and the flame of a consuming fire, scattering and inundation and hailstone.

Hailstones made of ice AND fire, as described, yet the likes we've never seen.

 

[granpa]

surely the fire is just lightening

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hailstones made of ice AND fire, as described, yet the likes we've never seen.

Hail is frozen water. It quenches fire

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth [which] are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' "

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus Greetings. How do other Christians here view this event in Reve 16:21.

WATER is often equated with THE WORD. That trail leads from under the threshold and will 'someday' be 'waters to SWIM in.'

But to GODS ENEMIES that same WORD will be hardened. Yes even into 100LB hailstones and it will KILL Gods enemies, UTTERLY destroying THEM. It will be MERCILESS! And BLOODY! And the more they get HIT the more those hit will CURSE HIM and RESIST Him!

hmmmm....do you think you can survive a BLOW by a 100lb hailstone lloj?

I'd venture ONE HARD 100lb WORD could make 10,000 enemies curse or flee. I'd venture the jawbone of ONE ASS in the RIGHT HAND could slay thousands of men.

Interesting perspective!

.

 

[daq]

Greetings. How do other Christians here view this event in Reve 16:21. Is the hailstones falling from Heaven literal or is it symbolic. This is the only place in the NT that uses this word though it is used a number of times in the OT. Please just keep this on the topic of the "hailstones". Thanks

Reve 16:21 And Hail/calaza <5464>great as talent-weight is descending out of the Heaven upon the Men, and blaspheme the God the Men out of the blow of the Hail/calazhV <5464> , that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous. [LXX # 5464 used in Ezekiel 38:22]

Textus Rec.) Revelation 16:21 kai calaza megalh wV talantiaia katabainei ek tou ouranou epi touV anqrwpouV kai eblasfhmhsan oi anqrwpoi ton qeon ek thV plhghV thV calazhV oti megalh estin h plhgh authV sfodra

5464. chalaza khal'-ad-zah probably from 5465; hail:--hail. Used 4 times Reve 8:7, 11:19, Reve 16:21 [2 times]
5465. chalao khal-ah'-o from the base of 5490; to lower (as into a void):--let down, strike.

Originally Posted by squint Spin it however you see it. Don't recall any history of 100lb hailstones

20 March 2009 ~ 14 November 2012 -- Seeing how this thread has run a full course of 1335 days perhaps today is the day in which this question may be put to rest.

Perhaps the hail stones are crowns of pride. When the stones of emptiness fall upon the wicked they do not even realize what has happened because the stones are supernal in meaning. The hail stones therefore bring forth blasphemies because that is what pride does and pride comes before the fall. The wording for the hail stones is nearly identical to what is said concerning the crown which David took from the king of ''the city of waters'' which was royal city, Rabbah of Ammon, in Moab: ''Every stone about the weight of a talent'' ~

Revelation 16:21 KJV
21. And there fell upon men [the anthropon-man-faced] a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

2 Samuel 12:26-30 KJV
26. And Joab fought against Rabbah of the children of Ammon, and took the royal city.
27. And Joab sent messengers to David, and said, I have fought against Rabbah, and have taken the city of waters.
28. Now therefore gather the rest of the people together, and encamp against the city, and take it: lest I take the city, and it be called after my name.
29. And David gathered all the people together, and went to Rabbah, and fought against it, and took it.
30. And he took their king's crown from off his head, the weight whereof was a talent of gold with the precious stones: and it was set on David's head. And he brought forth the spoil of the city in great abundance.

Now simply change your search parameters to include ''crowns'' and ''pride'' such as ''Woe to the crown of pride! to the drunkards of Ephraim!'' Etc., etc., ...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

20 March 2009 ~ 14 November 2012 -- Seeing how this thread has run a full course of 1335 days perhaps today is the day in which this question may be put to rest.

Perhaps the hail stones are crowns of pride. When the stones of emptiness fall upon the wicked they do not even realize what has happened because the stones are supernal in meaning. The hail stones therefore bring forth blasphemies because that is what pride does and pride comes before the fall. The wording for the hail stones is nearly identical to what is said concerning the crown which David took from the king of ''the city of waters'' which was royal city, Rabbah of Ammon, in Moab: ''Every stone about the weight of a talent'' ~

Now simply change your search parameters to include ''crowns'' and ''pride'' such as ''Woe to the crown of pride! to the drunkards of Ephraim!'' Etc., etc., ...

Very interesting.
Revelation 4 shows the Elders casting their crowns before the throne.

Revelation 4:10 fall down do the twenty and four elders before Him who is sitting upon the throne, and bow before Him who is living to the ages of the ages,
and they cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

I recall a thread sometime back concerning the use of both the words "crown" and "diadems". Thoughts?

http://www.christianforums.com/t825862-2/#post9139416
Crowns and Diadems Differences?

Revelation 19:12 and his eyes [are] as a flame of fire, and upon his head [are] many diadems--having a name written that no one hath known, except himself,

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

And here's the 20 million blessing answer, it's spiritual.
John was in the spirit. Now, back to the empty barrel discussion.

So the hail is spiritual?

Perhaps a better word would be "symbolic" or maybe "figurative".

It could be literal in the sense of large stones launched from catapaults, as Josephus describes concerning the destruction of Jerusalem.
I tend to go with this view as I and a lot of others view OC Jerusalem in Revelation. IMHO

John 10:33
Answered Him, the Judeans saying, "about a good work not we are Stoning Thee, but about blasphemy,
and that Thou being a man are making thyself a god ".

The Babylon of Revelation is Referring to Jerusalem

5 - Great hail weighing one talent is said to fall upon men there (Revelation 16:21).

Josephus tells of the Roman catapults being used to cast whitewashed boulders over the walls of Jerusalem and they each weighed one talent.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

As a consequence, the legions were able to build their redoubts almost without any trouble; soon, their catapults started to throw heavy stones into the city. Under cover of this artillery fire, the Roman soldiers could start to bash the northern wall with their battering-rams.

The Police - Spirits In The Material World - YouTube

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What I find so fascinating about the map below is the position of the 10th Legion of the Roman army....on the Mount of Olives! where Jesus gave his famous 70ad Olivet Discourse.
It describes the size, weight and the distance the stones could be hurled.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html

Mat 24:3
1 And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple, and his disciples came near to show him the buildings of the temple,
2and Jesus said to them, 'Do ye not see all these? verily I say to you, There may not be left here a stone upon a stone, that shall not be thrown down.'
3 And when He is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, 'Tell us, when shall these be?

Luke 19:43
That shall be arriving<2240> days upon thee, and thy Enemies shall be casting up a rampart to thee, and shall be encompassing thee, and pressing thee every which place.

Legio X Fretensis - Wikipedia

By 70, the rebellion in all of Judaea had been crushed, except for Jerusalem and a few fortresses, including Masada. In that year X Fretensis, in conjunction with V Macedonica, XII Fulminata, and XV Apollinaris, began the siege of Jerusalem, stronghold of the rebellion.
The Xth camped on the Mount of Olives. During the siege, Legio X gained fame in the effective use of their various war machines. It was noted that they were able to hurl stones that weighted a talent (about 25 kg) a distance of two furlongs (400 m) or further..............
Revelation 16:21
And great Hail as talent-weight is descending out of the Heaven/Sky upon the Men, and they blaspheme the God out of the blow of the Hail, that great is the blow of it, tremendous.

........................

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Current poll results:
8/8/2019

Hail from Heaven in Reve 16 literal or symbolic

1. Yes I believe they are literal hail stones from Heaven
   24 vote(s)
   47.1%
2. *
   No I believe it is symbolic
   18 vote(s)
   35.3%
3. I have no view on it right now
   4 vote(s)
   7.8%
4. Other please explain
   5 vote(s)
   9.8%