State leaders speak out about plans to expand the Islamic Academy of Alabama

[Larniavc]

Do I see major flaws within Hinduism and Sikhism and the way the caste system is used? Yeah

Side point (more a rhetorical question); how is that caste system any worse than the Capitalist caste system?

 

[Larniavc]

There are 30 large Sharia courts in the UK. There are as many smaller ones.

Name the ones with legal power please.

 

[Larniavc]

But I will post information just like above.

Please do.

 

[Larniavc]

Yup, and thats bad. How many Muslim countries is it outlawed and punishable by death?

And Nigeria. That puts it at about an 80/20 split between Muslim and Christian.

But for illegality of being gay it’s more likely 50/50. This differences seem to be more on the national in question’s view on the death penalty where more bloodthirsty punitive nations pursue the death penalty and more (relatively) liberal ones don’t.

 

[rjs330]

expected that, when presented as evidence of the claim that "Islamism is the biggest and most deadly threat in the world today" that they would at least support that claim.

Thats ridiculous. Nobody does that. We make a statement and then provide evidence and examples as to why we believe that way. You don't hunt for exact quotes of what you say.

In what world does reading and summarizing them back to you constitute ignoring them?

I didn't ignore them. I just thought they weren't any good. You tried to support your claim, but did a bad job of it.

No you ignore the information in them. Put them all together and it clearly shares information ad to why they are dangerous.

Oh, I didn't forget what you said, but it seems like you might have. Here it is again:

So you didn't forget. You just misrepresented.

You're conflating things. For civil marriages, she has the same legal rights as anybody. It's only within the religious community that the various religious rules are imposed. This is no different than the way Christian churches (especially Catholics) handle church rules around divorce and remarriage. Folks have had to petition the diocese for annulments for eons.

You are not really trying to claim that Muslim women have far fewer rights among the Islamist communities are you? How they can be in danger of harm? You are just showing your ignorance of the Islamic communities where these people are coming from and their Islamist ways. You aren't really equating this with the Catholic Church and annulments are you?

You cant be this ignorant of the Islamists.

For some Muslim wives, abuse has no borders

Im sure you'll find a way to ignore rhis too.

Yeah? What hypocritical things do I support from the left?

Correct me if Im wrong, but I believe I have pointed it out in the past. Do you expect me to keep a tally and log each time I do so for future reference? You are going to be disappointed.

 

[rjs330]

UK under Massive Islamization: 11 Incidents Act as Evidence

The period between 2000 and 2025 has witnessed a undeniable trend towards the Islamization of the UK, a shift that has sparked alarm

organiser.org

 

[rjs330]

So, are you suggesting that because Christians face persecution in many Muslim-majority countries, we should treat Muslims the same way here?

No.

yes, there are many Muslim majority countries Christians are persecuted. but that doesn’t cover entire picture.

Never said it did.

It appears that a country guaranteeing religious freedom in its constitution faces more challenges opening Muslim schools in Alabama than Christian schools do in Muslim-majority Dhaka, Bangladesh

Maybe that's because in those countries they know that the Christians are not trying radicalize their people.

Whereas we know there is Radicalization that occurs among the Muslim community that encourages violence, subjugation, and take over.

And as we know, because there is so much of this world wide, we don't know if its going on until its too late.

 

[Larniavc]

That

UK under Massive Islamization: 11 Incidents Act as Evidence

The period between 2000 and 2025 has witnessed a undeniable trend towards the Islamization of the UK, a shift that has sparked alarm

organiser.org

That shows demographic change. Absolutely nothing more than that (with the exception of a healthy dose of Replacement Theory).

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Maybe that's because in those countries they know that the Christians are not trying radicalize their people.

The main objective of these Christian schools and colleges in Muslim countries is to bring people to Christ, which Muslims perceive as an effort to radicalize their people.

It appears that your understanding of Islam and Muslim culture is primarily based on reading and consuming media, rather than personal experience in a Muslim country. In other words, your perspective may be shaped by misconceptions due to limited direct knowledge of the subject.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Side point (more a rhetorical question); how is that caste system any worse than the Capitalist caste system?

I would say the arranged marriages and socially imposed endogamy that are an offshoot would be one glaring example.

The rigidity of the social hierarchies that were associated with the Indian caste systems were far more "mobility-prohibitive" as well in terms of ones career.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Thats ridiculous. Nobody does that. We make a statement and then provide evidence and examples as to why we believe that way. You don't hunt for exact quotes of what you say.

I didn't say I expected them to have that exact quote. I said I expected them to support your claim. They don't. They support a claim along the lines of "Islamism is dangerous and concerning." They don't support the claim you made, "Islamism is the biggest and most deadly threat in the world today."

Do you see the difference?

No you ignore the information in them. Put them all together and it clearly shares information ad to why they are dangerous.

"They are dangerous" is not equivalent to "the biggest and most deadly threat in the world today."

Do you understand the difference?

So you didn't forget. You just misrepresented.

You are not really trying to claim that Muslim women have far fewer rights among the Islamist communities are you? How they can be in danger of harm? You are just showing your ignorance of the Islamic communities where these people are coming from and their Islamist ways. You aren't really equating this with the Catholic Church and annulments are you?

You cant be this ignorant of the Islamists.

For some Muslim wives, abuse has no borders

Im sure you'll find a way to ignore rhis too.

I'm not ignoring anything. One of the problems here is that you're not being very precise with your words and you're not being very precise when reading mine. Maybe you don't intend to keep moving the goalposts and conflating different things, but that's effectively what you're doing every time you come back like this.

Did I say that Islamic communities don't harbor abuse? No, I didn't.

The comment of yours to which I was responding was this: "A man may get a divorce in a Sharia court and a woman has no legal option to representation and US courts will not intervene."

That's a comment about a woman's legal rights regarding a civil marriage. It's also incorrect. In my response, I made a distinction between her rights regarding the civil union (i.e. the one for which you have to get a marriage license) and her rights regarding the religious union (i.e. the one signed off on by the priest/rabbi/imam). Many religions have extra rules for marriages conducted within their purview; but at least in the US those rules are independent of any imposed by the state. A Muslim woman has the same rights as any other woman to pursue a civil divorce from her husband, which will then permit her to get married in a civil ceremony to whomever she wishes. It's only the religious side that the government stays out of - just like how the government won't force a Catholic annulment or a Baptist gay wedding, they also likely won't force a Muslim divorce, unless both parties have already agreed to that sort of arbitration.

Correct me if Im wrong, but I believe I have pointed it out in the past. Do you expect me to keep a tally and log each time I do so for future reference? You are going to be disappointed.

I figured if you were going to level an accusation like that, you would've had at least one in the chamber, ready to go.

But if you don't, maybe you should stop making claims like that.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Side point (more a rhetorical question); how is that caste system any worse than the Capitalist caste system?

The capitalist caste system is at least somewhat meritocratic in that, if you have money, you can mostly break out of your old caste.

As far as I'm aware, the Indian caste system is much closer in nature to American racial castes, where you're stuck in the caste into which you're born.

 

[Larniavc]

Yea

I would say the arranged marriages and socially imposed endogamy that are an offshoot would be one glaring example.

The rigidity of the social hierarchies that were associated with the Indian caste systems were far more "mobility-prohibitive" as well in terms of ones career.

Yeah But how many janitors marry Kennedys? There is still a rigid caste system in late stage capitalist countries.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That’s because they don’t seek worldly power unlike Christian’s Nationalists and Islamic Fundamentalism.

I've provided the numbers before, pretending the two are equivalents would be dishonest.

One clearly has a higher propensity for that type of preference for power consolidation.

State religion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Roughly half of the ~50 Muslim majority countries end up with an officially codified state religion that gets special constitutional treatment (and severe punishments for insulting the faith or leaving the faith)

Of the ~120 Christian majority countries, a much smaller percentage of those have an official state religion, and of the ones that do, most are a historical holdover/relic that's no longer enforced or carries any legal weight. (for example, the Icelandic government isn't throwing rocks at anyone for leaving the Church of Iceland)


So while one can say "they both do it, so that means it's a wash", that's too blunt an instrument to perform any pragmatic problem solving or knowing what needs more focus.

In the same way that if:
Bill drinks 4 beers a night
Ted drinks 15 beers every night

Yeah, we can say "they both have a drinking problem", sure...but clearly one needs more urgent "priority focus" in regards to tackling the problem.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Yea

Yeah But how many janitors marry Kennedys? There is still a rigid caste system in late stage capitalist countries.

At least person from a poor family has married a Kennedy

Cheryl Hines - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

She was from a very poor family and didn't even have her own bed until after high school.

 

[BCP1928]

I've provided the numbers before, pretending the two are equivalents would be dishonest.

One clearly has a higher propensity for that type of preference for power consolidation.

State religion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Roughly half of the ~50 Muslim majority countries end up with an officially codified state religion that gets special constitutional treatment (and severe punishments for insulting the faith or leaving the faith)

Of the ~120 Christian majority countries, a much smaller percentage of those have an official state religion, and of the ones that do, most are a historical holdover/relic that's no longer enforced or carries any legal weight. (for example, the Icelandic government isn't throwing rocks at anyone for leaving the Church of Iceland)


So while one can say "they both do it, so that means it's a wash", that's too blunt an instrument to perform any pragmatic problem solving or knowing what needs more focus.

In the same way that if:
Bill drinks 4 beers a night
Ted drinks 15 beers every night

Yeah, we can say "they both have a drinking problem", sure...but clearly one needs more urgent "priority focus" in regards to tackling the problem.

Many people of various religions over the years have immigrated because of the religious freedom we offer. I personally know Moslems who have done the same, yet you assert that it is impossible for them.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I've provided the numbers before, pretending the two are equivalents would be dishonest.

One clearly has a higher propensity for that type of preference for power consolidation.

State religion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Roughly half of the ~50 Muslim majority countries end up with an officially codified state religion that gets special constitutional treatment (and severe punishments for insulting the faith or leaving the faith)

Of the ~120 Christian majority countries, a much smaller percentage of those have an official state religion, and of the ones that do, most are a historical holdover/relic that's no longer enforced or carries any legal weight. (for example, the Icelandic government isn't throwing rocks at anyone for leaving the Church of Iceland)


So while one can say "they both do it, so that means it's a wash", that's too blunt an instrument to perform any pragmatic problem solving or knowing what needs more focus.

In the same way that if:
Bill drinks 4 beers a night
Ted drinks 15 beers every night

Yeah, we can say "they both have a drinking problem", sure...but clearly one needs more urgent "priority focus" in regards to tackling the problem.

If I wanted to get cute, I could point out that, with a sample size of 1, it's actually Jews who have the highest propensity for establishing ethnonationalist state entities in the regions they control.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

If I wanted to get cute, I could point out that, with a sample size of 1, it's actually Jews who have the highest propensity for establishing ethnonationalist state entities in the regions they control.

Yep, 110%, with a 10 point margin of error.

 

[Lukaris]

Yea

Yeah But how many janitors marry Kennedys? There is still a rigid caste system in late stage capitalist countries.

I do warehouse and janitorial work and if I lived in India, I would probably be a Dalit stuck in a caste system with thousands of years of formal structure. It would be the result of my karma and my underclass status would be deserved because of past lives I supposedly wasn’t “enlightened” to deserve better. Capitalism hasn’t discriminated against me religiously, culturally or socioeconomically. Capitalism can thrive if people have civil rights and economic opportunity. If I didn’t have a low IQ, I would probably do better in a capitalist system.

It seems like secularists can rationalize a caste system from economic data in a secular economy and equate wealth & poverty ( which is a human condition) with a structural economic disparity of a formal caste system that is based on primitive religiosity of a concept like karma. Capitalism can be good or bad depending on obvious economic and social conditions.

The case of the Dalits in holdovers from the caste system in India:

Socioeconomic status and discrimination​

Discrimination against Dalits has been observed across South Asia and among the South Asian diaspora. In 2001, the quality of life of the Dalit population in India was worse than that of the overall Indian population on metrics such as access to health care, life expectancy, education attainability, access to drinking water and housing.[64][65][66] According to a 2007 report by Human Rights Watch (HRW), the treatment of Dalits has been like a "hidden apartheid" and that they "endure segregation in housing, schools, and access to public services". HRW noted that Manmohan Singh, then Prime Minister of India, saw a parallel between the apartheid system and untouchability.[67] Eleanor Zelliotalso notes Singh's 2006 comment but says that, despite the obvious similarities, race prejudice and the situation of Dalits "have a different basis and perhaps a different solution".[27] Though the Indian Constitution abolished untouchability, the oppressed status of Dalits remains a reality. In rural India, stated Klaus Klostermaier in 2010, "they still live in secluded quarters, do the dirtiest work, and are not allowed to use the village well and other common facilities".[68] In the same year, Zelliot noted that "In spite of much progress over the last sixty years, Dalits are still at the social and economic bottom of society."[27]

According to the 2014 NCAER/University of Maryland survey, 27 per cent of the Indian population still practices untouchability; the figure may be higher because many people refuse to acknowledge doing so when questioned, although the methodology of the survey was also criticised for potentially inflating the figure.[69] Across India, Untouchability was practised among 52 per cent of Brahmins, 33 per cent of Other Backward Classes and 24 per cent of non-Brahmin forward castes.[70] Untouchability was also practised by people of minority religions – 23 per cent of Sikhs, 18 per cent of Muslims and 5 per cent of Christians.[71]According to statewide data, Untouchability is most commonly practised in Madhya Pradesh (53 per cent), followed by Himachal Pradesh (50 per cent), Chhattisgarh (48 per cent), Rajasthan and Bihar (47 per cent), Uttar Pradesh (43 per cent), and Uttarakhand (40 per cent).[72]

Dalit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ecclesiastes 12:1-14, Romans 13:1-14

 

[Hans Blaster]

Yea

Yeah But how many janitors marry Kennedys? There is still a rigid caste system in late stage capitalist countries.

I've got cousins who are Kennedys. I'm sure some of them have janitors in their families.