State leaders speak out about plans to expand the Islamic Academy of Alabama

[ThatRobGuy]

It is outlawed and punishable by death in Uganda where the population is well over 80% Christian.

Is that the norm in Christian-majority countries?

Map of Jurisdictions that Criminalise LGBT People | Human Dignity Trust

LGBT people are criminalised in 65 jurisdictions worldwide. Find out where with our map.

www.humandignitytrust.org

And in other report by the National Secular Society, it also draws some noteworthy contrasts:

35 of the 53 Muslim-majority countries have laws that criminalise homosexuality
31 of the ~120 Christian-majority countries have laws that criminalise homosexuality

The remaining five countries include Nigeria, which has a roughly 50-50 split of Muslims and Christians. The other four are either Hindu or Buddhist majority. No country with a nonreligious majority bans homosexuality.

Ten countries prescribe the death penalty for homosexuality. Apart from Nigeria, every one of these countries is Muslim-majority. The penalty is based on sharia law.

Noting: Uganda's law isn't a blanket capital punishment for all homosexuality

Their law prescribes the death penalty for certain acts of "aggravated homosexuality". These are defined as: those who have homosexual sex with minors, with persons aged over 75 years, persons with disabilities, without or unable to consent, or with a person who is mentally ill. Anyone having infected others with a serious infectious disease such as HIV/AIDS, are also liable to be convicted as perpetrators of "aggravated homosexuality".

(obviously that still presents an issue with equality under the law if gay people are getting harsher punishments for the same crimes than their straight counterparts who also commit those types of crimes)


So if we run the numbers just to do a little "odds analysis" of certain likelihoods.

If a territory is Majority-Muslim
67% chance they'll end up with laws criminalizing gay people
17% chance they'll impose the death penalty for it

If a territory is Majority-Christian
25% chance they'll end up with laws criminalizing gay people
0.8% chance they'll impose the death penalty for it

...and if you only consider Westernized Majority-Christian countries, those numbers drop to practically 0.



So I don't think we do any sort of public service by conveying some sort of equivalency.

Nor is it particularly productive to, in the name of "inclusion", prop up some sort of standard of "Well, you're not perfect, and until you are perfect, you have no moral standing to criticize this other imperfect culture, attempt to limit its influence, or try to establish guardrails for them" (when that other culture, by all objective metrics, is blatantly a far worse offender, and it's not even close)

 

[BCP1928]

Did you expect that every single piece which lists the threats of Islam would specifically say that? I don't know why you would expect that.

See this is why i dont bother posting links anymore. You and other progressives just ignore them. And your whole shtick of "gee it was 30 years" ago so it doesnt count is ridiculous. It was dangerous then and xan you say it's gotten better? No its worse.

I absolutely read the pieces. Every word. They justify the fact that it is the most dangerous in the world. Read every word of each one and combine them all together and they show exactly why.

Nope, are you deliberately misrepresenting what I said or did you just forget?

Places in the UK and also in Texas. Dallas to be exact. We all know that in many Islamic beliefs and communities women do not have the same rights as men. A man may get a divorce in a Sharia court and a woman has no legal option to representation and US courts will not intervene. Women won't take that to court because they know what will happen in their communities to them if they do. I heard an interview with a woman who was able to get out and share her story. She won't go back becauae she was afraid foe her safety. Many women are not that strong.

No you don't. If you did you wouldn't support so many hypocritical things from the left. Your special.dialike is not for hypocrites its for conservatives who recognize some truths in the world that you do not wish to confront. Such as the dangers of Islamism.

Once again you misunderstand scripture. Evangelicals live in the world. We do not separate ourselves from it. Its telling to me that you decry the fact they wish to spend time with each other studying the word of God. Somehow that is a bad thing for you?

What I am finding is that too many churches are running toward friendship.with the world. Following and supporting worldly things. And quite frankly too many Evangelical churches are starting to do the same. You are correct in that there has been a movement among some churches toward those things you mentioned. Particularly in the mega church movement. I won't deny it.

Do you have any links at all for that fairy story about Dallas? And you still haven't explained how this Islamic takeover will get past the Constitution and the majority of the electorate.

 

[BCP1928]

Is that the norm in Christian-majority countries?

Map of Jurisdictions that Criminalise LGBT People | Human Dignity Trust

LGBT people are criminalised in 65 jurisdictions worldwide. Find out where with our map.

www.humandignitytrust.org

And in other report by the National Secular Society, it also draws some noteworthy contrasts:

35 of the 53 Muslim-majority countries have laws that criminalise homosexuality
31 of the ~120 Christian-majority countries have laws that criminalise homosexuality

The remaining five countries include Nigeria, which has a roughly 50-50 split of Muslims and Christians. The other four are either Hindu or Buddhist majority. No country with a nonreligious majority bans homosexuality.

Ten countries prescribe the death penalty for homosexuality. Apart from Nigeria, every one of these countries is Muslim-majority. The penalty is based on sharia law.

Noting: Uganda's law isn't a blanket capital punishment for all homosexuality

Their law prescribes the death penalty for certain acts of "aggravated homosexuality". These are defined as: those who have homosexual sex with minors, with persons aged over 75 years, persons with disabilities, without or unable to consent, or with a person who is mentally ill. Anyone having infected others with a serious infectious disease such as HIV/AIDS, are also liable to be convicted as perpetrators of "aggravated homosexuality".

(obviously that still presents an issue with equality under the law if gay people are getting harsher punishments for the same crimes than their straight counterparts who also commit those types of crimes)


So if we run the numbers just to do a little "odds analysis" of certain likelihoods.

If a territory is Majority-Muslim
67% chance they'll end up with laws criminalizing gay people
17% chance they'll impose the death penalty for it

If a territory is Majority-Christian
25% chance they'll end up with laws criminalizing gay people
0.8% chance they'll impose the death penalty for it

...and if you only consider Westernized Majority-Christian countries, those numbers drop to practically 0.



So I don't think we do any sort of public service by conveying some sort of equivalency.

Nor is it particularly productive to, in the name of "inclusion", prop up some sort of standard of "Well, you're not perfect, and until you are perfect, you have no moral standing to criticize this other imperfect culture, attempt to limit its influence, or try to establish guardrails for them" (when that other culture, by all objective metrics, is blatantly a far worse offender, and it's not even close)

Are you talking about culture or morality? I can't keep track.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Is that the norm in Christian-majority countries?

Map of Jurisdictions that Criminalise LGBT People | Human Dignity Trust

LGBT people are criminalised in 65 jurisdictions worldwide. Find out where with our map.

www.humandignitytrust.org

And in other report by the National Secular Society, it also draws some noteworthy contrasts:

35 of the 53 Muslim-majority countries have laws that criminalise homosexuality
31 of the ~120 Christian-majority countries have laws that criminalise homosexuality

The remaining five countries include Nigeria, which has a roughly 50-50 split of Muslims and Christians. The other four are either Hindu or Buddhist majority. No country with a nonreligious majority bans homosexuality.

Ten countries prescribe the death penalty for homosexuality. Apart from Nigeria, every one of these countries is Muslim-majority. The penalty is based on sharia law.

Noting: Uganda's law isn't a blanket capital punishment for all homosexuality

Their law prescribes the death penalty for certain acts of "aggravated homosexuality". These are defined as: those who have homosexual sex with minors, with persons aged over 75 years, persons with disabilities, without or unable to consent, or with a person who is mentally ill. Anyone having infected others with a serious infectious disease such as HIV/AIDS, are also liable to be convicted as perpetrators of "aggravated homosexuality".

(obviously that still presents an issue with equality under the law if gay people are getting harsher punishments for the same crimes than their straight counterparts who also commit those types of crimes)


So if we run the numbers just to do a little "odds analysis" of certain likelihoods.

If a territory is Majority-Muslim
67% chance they'll end up with laws criminalizing gay people
17% chance they'll impose the death penalty for it

If a territory is Majority-Christian
25% chance they'll end up with laws criminalizing gay people
0.8% chance they'll impose the death penalty for it

...and if you only consider Westernized Majority-Christian countries, those numbers drop to practically 0.



So I don't think we do any sort of public service by conveying some sort of equivalency.

Nor is it particularly productive to, in the name of "inclusion", prop up some sort of standard of "Well, you're not perfect, and until you are perfect, you have no moral standing to criticize this other imperfect culture, attempt to limit its influence, or try to establish guardrails for them" (when that other culture, by all objective metrics, is blatantly a far worse offender, and it's not even close)

I’m just pointing out there is some ideological overlap between the various Abrahamic religions. They all read out of ancient books saying gays should be killed for their sins. There’s just degrees of separation between them and how far they take that part of the scriptures to heart.

 

[Belk]

I'm glad at least you are troubled. But you know what? The stuff in Europe, they weren't too concerned and didn't have any overriding worry either. Now they are. And in places in the US it is headed that way. I'd rather not wait until we are in the same place as Europe.

I do not believe you to be a person who has a good enough view of the data to be able to make that determination. The professionals who do so come to a different conclusion. I will follow their assessments.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Did you expect that every single piece which lists the threats of Islam would specifically say that? I don't know why you would expect that.

I expected that, when presented as evidence of the claim that "Islamism is the biggest and most deadly threat in the world today" that they would at least support that claim.

They did not.

See this is why i dont bother posting links anymore. You and other progressives just ignore them.

In what world does reading and summarizing them back to you constitute ignoring them?

I didn't ignore them. I just thought they weren't any good. You tried to support your claim, but did a bad job of it.

I absolutely read the pieces. Every word. They justify the fact that it is the most dangerous in the world. Read every word of each one and combine them all together and they show exactly why.

I read each and every word. The only way you could come to the conclusion that it's the "most dangerous [thing] in the world" is if you went into the articles already holding that opinion and were merely looking for anything that would confirm your priors.

None of them are remotely so hysterical. That's from you.

Nope, are you deliberately misrepresenting what I said or did you just forget?

Oh, I didn't forget what you said, but it seems like you might have. Here it is again:

"They come and have no intention of assimilating. Instead they come and re-create that which they left. Separate communities, separate laws and separate schools. All under the religion of Islam."

Nothing in there about the correct types of communities; just that they were separate.

Places in the UK and also in Texas. Dallas to be exact.

Are you talking about the EPIC development that's just a housing development that caught a bunch of flak from the anti-Muslim folks in TX government? Did you get duped by their bigotry, too?

We all know that in many Islamic beliefs and communities women do not have the same rights as men. A man may get a divorce in a Sharia court and a woman has no legal option to representation and US courts will not intervene. Women won't take that to court because they know what will happen in their communities to them if they do. I heard an interview with a woman who was able to get out and share her story. She won't go back becauae she was afraid foe her safety. Many women are not that strong.

You're conflating things. For civil marriages, she has the same legal rights as anybody. It's only within the religious community that the various religious rules are imposed. This is no different than the way Christian churches (especially Catholics) handle church rules around divorce and remarriage. Folks have had to petition the diocese for annulments for eons.

No you don't. If you did you wouldn't support so many hypocritical things from the left.

Yeah? What hypocritical things do I support from the left?

Once again you misunderstand scripture. Evangelicals live in the world. We do not separate ourselves from it. Its telling to me that you decry the fact they wish to spend time with each other studying the word of God. Somehow that is a bad thing for you?

Once again, you misunderstand what I actually wrote. I wasn't commenting on scripture; I was commenting on the way people have lived it out.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Are you talking about culture or morality? I can't keep track.

One could make a strong case that one is downstream of the other.

Cultural offshoots of the prevailing ideology often dictates the morality standards of a region's inhabitants, as well as their legal expectations.


The interesting thing is, this phenomenon in question seems to be much more easily identified when looking at things through a domestic lens.

For instance, I've heard a number of progressives assert things to the effect of:
"This more radical push we're seeing in the past 10 years among conservative evangelicals is a backlash and reaction to their loss of preferential status in law/society, and an aggressive last ditch effort to attempt to retain those privileges they've become accustomed to"

Yet, when discussing this very same type of concern, just with a different religion/region in question, that behavior pattern detection seems to get lost

Not to mention we're talking about people from religion/region that's even more accustomed to everyone walking on eggshells and bending over backwards to specifically accommodate their religious preferences.


So whatever perceived "sense of religious entitlement" one may ascribe to southern conservatives when they exhibit backlash to DEI/secularism initiatives/etc... You can rest assured that a Fundamentalist Muslim, coming from an Islamic nation, ...that "sense of religious entitlement" exists to that degree times 10. We're talking about a cohort of people who are not only used to having zero separation of church and state (and not even having to get creative about it like some do in the US to sneak it in, they're used to be being blatant about it "My religion says X, so we're going to do X" has been the status quo they've become accustomed to), but also having a government that will harshly punish anyone who so much as criticizes their religion.


That touches on the same contextual differences between the various religious texts that I've mentioned before. The Jesus of the Bible doesn't establish any rules for "government takeovers" or trying to use government as a tool to cater to Christianity. Obviously there are people in the US who try to do that, but it's in spite of the texts, not in adherence to them. Whereas, that same dynamic isn't true for Islam.

Muslims preferring a government that enforces their religious viewpoints with an iron fist doesn't require any selective inferences or "creative interpretations" of the texts.

...which is why I think we see the results that we see.

Christians in Westernized countries that are Christian-majority have had ample opportunities for 200 years to do a "brute force takeover" to establish harsh theocracies, but haven't.

Muslims in Muslim-majority countries... establishing at Sharia government seems to be a day-1 agenda item on the meeting notes.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

You make my point. Christians safety in Islamic countries shows exactly why it's concerning. Islamists would have no problem with killing them. They are dangerous. And they coming. Already those that are coming here are getting control over some local governments. Meshing religion and government because that is what their religion is.

So, are you suggesting that because Christians face persecution in many Muslim-majority countries, we should treat Muslims the same way here?

yes, there are many Muslim majority countries Christians are persecuted. but that doesn’t cover entire picture.

here are some facts

In USA there are 300 Full time Islamic school. compare to


Bangladesh-91% population Muslim vs 0.30% Christian. yet Bangladesh has over 1500 Christians schools and collages.

Pakistan: 96% Muslims and 1.6% Christian. Pakistan is known as the country of Islamic extremist. yet Pakistan has over 450 Christians schools and colleges.

Malaysia : 64% Muslim vs 9% Christian , yet Malaysia has over 400 Christians schools and collages.

similar story in other country.

It appears that a country guaranteeing religious freedom in its constitution faces more challenges opening Muslim schools in Alabama than Christian schools do in Muslim-majority Dhaka, Bangladesh.

 

[rjs330]

B

The fact remains that there are Christians in America calling for and celebrating the deaths of gay folks. And there are Christian’s Nationalists who want to rule America.

Remind me how that is different from American Islamists who want to do the same?

Because we are seeing rhe Islamists in action actually doing it. Christian nationalists are few and far between. And fewer still those called for the death of gays.

Whereas there are millions of Islamists who want to and have ruled in many countries. And they are flooding other western countries now doing the same.

You are seeing it in Europe including your country.

 

[rjs330]

Not to me it isn’t. Christian Nationalism is far more likely.

Its not. You don't live here so you have no idea. You should stop listening to the leftist propeganda.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Its not. You don't live here so you have no idea.

Oh but you know what life is like in Europe, eh?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Because we are seeing rhe Islamists in action actually doing it. Christian nationalists are few and far between. And fewer still those called for the death of gays.

Whereas there are millions of Islamists who want to and have ruled in many countries. And they are flooding other western countries now doing the same.

Sam Harris (an atheist influencer) said it best regarding the myth of equivalency.

"No world leader lays awake at night worrying about the Amish"

He's also said that the secular world's insistence on keeping up a perception of "even-handedness" is an Achilles heel.


Do I have problems with some of the things fundamentalist Christians want? Yes
Do I see major flaws within Hinduism and Sikhism and the way the caste system is used? Yeah
Do I have some serious issues with Hasidism and the way it prescribes geopolitical influence as a tool to make everyone else "Goy" that are meant to merely be "tools" to further their own "walk with God"? Obviously

But the Islamic world is something very different, and is head and shoulders above the others in terms of propensity for force and violence.

It's the reason why the proclaimed "4 horsemen of reason" (Dawkins, Dennett, Harris, Hitchens) -- all borderline militant atheists and devout secularists, were especially critical of Islam over all of the other religions when it came to the topic of theocracy.

 

[rjs330]

Don’t be silly. Name them.

There are 30 large Sharia courts in the UK. There are as many smaller ones.

 

[rjs330]

No we aren’t! Your view of Europe and the UK is silly.

Nope, its based upon reality of whats going on. I could post a ton of information on this, but once again I was proven correct by another poster that anything linked to is summarily dismissed and its a waste of time. But I will post information just like above.

 

[rjs330]

Why don't you put some of your own words there instead and answer my question about how these Muslim immigrants will get past the Constitution and the majority of the voters.

You made the claim or at least an i situation I daid something I didn't. You have a habit of doing that.

Who do you think is allowing this? It's governments and the people in the communities. You know, the voters.

 

[rjs330]

We don’t have an Islamist president.

I'm glad we don't.

 

[rjs330]

It is outlawed and punishable by death in Uganda where the population is well over 80% Christian.

Yup, and thats bad. How many Muslim countries is it outlawed and punishable by death?

 

[Larniavc]

Whereas there are millions of Islamists who want to and have ruled in many countries.

So it’s rare lone wolves when it’s Christians and millions when it’s Muslims?

Where have I heard that before?

 

[Larniavc]

You don't live here so you have no idea.

Did you proof read what you have just written? You are literally telling me what is happening in MY country.

Smh.

 

[Larniavc]

He's also said that the secular world's insistence on keeping up a perception of "even-handedness" is an Achilles heel.

That’s because they don’t seek worldly power unlike Christian’s Nationalists and Islamic Fundamentalism.