The relationship between the Ten Commandments, the Sabbath, and the New Covenant

[JesusFollowerForever]

Last I checked you were engaged in a dispute.

bye bye, just pressing the ignore button now.

 

[Canuckster]

What the Apostles instructed the New Gentile Converts to do, was the exact same thing Jesus told the multitudes and the Apostles to do.

No, the Gentiles were not instructed by the Apostles "the exact same thing" that Jesus told the multitudes in that particular address. Jesus was not speaking to a multitude of Gentiles He was speaking to a multitude of Jews who were being taught by other Jews who sat in Moses’ seat. And He told them to follow their teachings (the law of Moses), as was their custom, but do not follow their works which were contrary. The decree was addressing the Gentile converts to the Gospel in Asia not Jews who were instructed by those who sat in Moses' seat.

This difference in teaching to the Gentiles and Jews was reiterated to Paul by James in Acts 21 when he referenced the decree several years after it was issued: “But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written [a decree] and decided that they should observe no such thing…”

The “no such thing” James was referring to in the decree that the Gentiles were not required to observe was to “be circumcised and keep the law”.

 

[timothyu]

The “no such thing” James was referring to in the decree that the Gentiles were not required to observe was to “be circumcised and keep the law”.

Logical considering this was done in the first place to set the Hebrew people apart from everyone else

 

[Canuckster]

Logical considering this was done in the first place to set the Hebrew people apart from everyone else

And virtually all the Hebrew people who believed at that time wanted to be set apart from everyone else, including set apart from Gentile believers.

 

[timothyu]

including set apart from Gentile believers.

Even though this gentile came to be meant as the 10 tribes also

 

[Studyman]

No, the Gentiles were not instructed by the Apostles "the exact same thing" that Jesus told the multitudes in that particular address. Jesus was not speaking to a multitude of Gentiles He was speaking to a multitude of Jews who were being taught by other Jews who sat in Moses’ seat. And He told them to follow their teachings (the law of Moses), as was their custom, but do not follow their works which were contrary.

No sir. It wasn't the "Custom" of most of the Jews to follow the teaching of Moses. It was the Custom of Jesus to follow the teaching of Moses. Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, John the Baptist, the Wise men, all followed the teaching of Moses. But for most of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, it was the custom of the people to walk in the commandments and traditions of men that the Pharisees taught for doctrines. I posted these truths for your review, not my words, but what the Scriptures actually say.

I was hoping you might consider them.

The decree was addressing the Gentile converts to the Gospel in Asia not Jews who were instructed by those who sat in Moses' seat.

Moses and the Prophets were the only "God Inspired" Holy Scriptures that existed then. Paul called the Law and Prophets "The Gospel of Christ" in Romans 1.

It is true that there is "another Jesus" that has been promoted by this world's religions since my youth. This Jesus, treats and judges men according to the DNA they were born with. For men born with Jewish DNA, if they full well reject the Commandments of God by their own traditions, or teach for doctrines the Commandments of men, they are rejected by Him and thrust out of the Kingdom of God in eternal damnation.

But for men who are born with Non-Jewish DNA, AKA "Gentiles", according to this world's religious philosophy, if they full well reject the Commandments of God by their own traditions, or teach for doctrines the Commandments of men, Jesus welcomes these men into Paradise for eternity, as long as they call Him Lord, Lord.

While I can see how seductive this religious philosophy might be, and why so "many" who call Jesus "Lord, Lord" choose this broad path to walk in, the Scriptures do not promote such a Jesus. There is no Jew or Gentile in the Christ, "of the Bible" and HE is no respecter of persons, judging men according to the DNA they were born with.

As Prophesied, "WE" sit in Moses Seat now, as God has delivered His Oracles to us, in our own home. And Paul teaches both Jew and Gentile that these Holy Scriptures are trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

Eph. 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

While the religious philosophy that the Christ has different programs for men, depending on the DNA they are born with is popular, and promoted by "Many" who come in Christ's Name, it is simply not true according to Scriptures. And Jesus Himself warns us, that we don not adopt their philosophies and be deceived.

This difference in teaching to the Gentiles and Jews was reiterated to Paul by James in Acts 21 when he referenced the decree several years after it was issued: “But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written [a decree] and decided that they should observe no such thing…”

Again, Paul is speaking to the Acts 15 event, where he told the Gentiles to abstain from breaking the Law of Moses concerning 4 issues commonly rejected by these Gentiles, telling them they can hear the rest, (Love your neighbor, don't covet, Sabbath of the Lord, etc) from Moses being read Every Sabbath.

You are not the only one who accuses Paul of teaching against the Holy Scriptures and the Laws of God defining Sin written for us therein.

27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him, 28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: "This is the man", that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.

Paul defended himself against these wicked allegations that the rebellious Jews, and you are making against Paul, which are not true.

10 Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself: 11 Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship. 12 And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city: 13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Sadly, many who "profess to know the Christ", really don't believe Him, just as those who professed to know Moses, didn't believe him either. Jesus said they will not be persuaded otherwise.

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though "one" rose from the dead.

The “no such thing” James was referring to in the decree that the Gentiles were not required to observe was to “be circumcised and keep the law”.

But not God's Law. The Pharisees were NOT trying to convert Jews or Gentiles to God's Laws. They were trying to convert others to "Their religion, their Laws, their philosophies. Kind of like you are doing to me.

To believe you, I would have to reject "EVERY Word" Jesus spoke concerning the Pharisees and Scribes. "Every Word"! Why on earth would I turn away from the Jesus "of the bible" to follow the teaching of men who don't believe Him?

In Acts 15 the Apostles were protecting the Gentile converts from the mainstream religion of their time that taught for doctrines the commandments of men, and full well transgressed the Commandments of God by their own man-made traditions.

At least this is what the Jesus "of the bible" teaches.

We are in the same world, with the same Christ, and the same "course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"

I simply advocate "Living by" Every Word of God as the Jesus "of the Bible" instructs.

 

[Studyman]

And virtually all the Hebrew people who believed at that time wanted to be set apart from everyone else, including set apart from Gentile believers.

And this tradition was in direct violation of God's Laws given by Moses.

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger (Gentile) that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Another insidious lie advanced by the promoters of this world's religious system, is that it was God's "Commandments contained in ordinances" that created the "Wall of Separation" between Jew and Gentile spoken of by Paul in Eph. 2..

They preach to the world that it was God/Christ who relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

As you can see, it wasn't God who created this commandment, but that which is called "The Circumcision's, made by hands".

Take Heed of this world's religions Canuckster, they have snared "many".

 

[Bob S]

Hi bob, i did comment a while ago, see link below

Why we are Supposed to Keep the Sabbath

2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [a]instruction in righteousness,

www.christianforums.com

I will just comment on the first verse you mentioned,

2 Corinthians 3:6-11 NKJV

“6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.”

In 2 Corinthians 3:6-11, Paul contrasts the New Covenant in Christ with the Old Covenant given through Moses, highlighting the profound superiority of the New Covenant. He begins by stating that he and his fellow ministers are sufficient to serve in the ministry of the New Covenant, which is not based on the letter of the law but on the Spirit. The "letter" refers to the written law, specifically the commandments and other laws given to Moses, which, while glorious, ultimately "kills" because it exposes sin and condemns those who cannot keep it perfectly. The Spirit, however, gives life because it enables believers to fulfill God's will through grace and inner transformation rather than through external adherence to a set of rules.
What "other" laws? Are the words in the paragraph yours? If not, then reveal from where they came .

Paul further emphasizes this contrast by referring to the Old Covenant as the "ministry of death," describing it as "written and engraved on stones."
Paul refers to the Ten Commandments as being the ministry of death, not the Old Covenant, another error.

This is a direct reference to the Ten Commandments, which were inscribed on stone tablets and formed the foundation of the Old Covenant. The glory of this covenant, symbolized by Moses' radiant face after encountering God on Mount Sinai, was temporary. As Moses’ face faded in glory, it served as a sign that the Old Covenant, while glorious in its time, was only a shadow of something greater to come. This fading glory, though remarkable, was not permanent and pointed forward to a more lasting glory in the New Covenant.
Did you write that? If so, then you are in total agreement with the Ten Commandments being done away, no longer enforced

Paul then rhetorically asks how much more glorious the "ministry of the Spirit" must be. If the Old Covenant Ten Commandments had glory despite its limitations, how much greater is the glory of the New Covenant, which offers righteousness and life through the Holy Spirit. The Old Covenant, Ten Commandments known as the "ministry of condemnation," could only point out sin and condemn, but the New Covenant is the "ministry of righteousness," offering justification and transformation through faith in Christ. The Old Covenant revealed God's standard of holiness but did not provide the power to live it out; the New Covenant, however, empowers believers to live righteously through the Holy Spirit.
Again, did you write that? Then you agree with the real truth.

Paul underscores that the glory of the Old Covenant, while real, is less in comparison to the glory of the New Covenant. The Old Covenant was temporary, with rituals, sacrifices, and laws that pointed to Christ, but the New Covenant is eternal and fully realized in Christ’s life, death, and resurrection. The Old Covenant has passed away, and its glory, though once dazzling, pales when compared to the surpassing glory of the New Covenant.
Amen!

In his argument, Paul makes a clear distinction between the Ten Commandments and the rest of the law given through Moses. The Ten Commandments represent the core moral foundation of the Old Covenant and reveal God’s eternal moral standards, which still apply today
Another blatant error. How could the Ten Commandments, which were only temporary and replaced with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, be the eternal moral standard today. since they were temporary?

. They form the heart of the Old Covenant, pointing out sin but offering no power to overcome it. The rest of the law, ceremonial, civil, and ritual, was given to regulate Israel’s religious and social life and to set them apart as a holy nation. These laws were temporary and were fulfilled in Christ, particularly the ceremonial laws which pointed to His ultimate sacrifice. While the Ten Commandments continue to hold significance for believers as a moral guide, the other laws are no longer binding because they were fulfilled in Christ and replaced by the New Covenant.
This paragraph sounds like your words, which nullifies everything written above it. The greatest commandments, love, are found in the part of the Old Covenant you nullified. You have absolutely no basis for your statement.

The intended meaning of Paul is clear: while the Old Covenant, which includes both the Ten Commandments and the rest of the law, was glorious in its time and served to reveal God’s holiness,
The Law reveals God's holiness? You and I cannot fathom the holiness of God.

it ultimately could not bring salvation or life. The New Covenant, however, brings life through the Holy Spirit and offers eternal glory that far surpasses the temporary glory of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant, defined in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is grounded in the grace of God,
empowering believers to live righteously not through the letter of the law but through the Holy Spirit, who transforms the hearts of those who believe.
Amen!

In this New Covenant, the essence of the Ten Commandments is internalized—written on the hearts of believers—so that they are no longer merely external rules to follow,, but principles of godly living empowered by the Holy Spirit."
The essence of the Ten Commandments is internalized—written on the hearts of believers????? No, no , no, how could what was only temporary and replaced with God in us be the principles of Godly living? The Ten Commandments didn't even have the greatest command to love one another.

The first part of the above statement is so true, but then came some statements that completely nullifies the first part. OY!

 

[timothyu]

it was the custom of the people to walk in the commandments and traditions of men that the Pharisees taught for doctrines.

Same applies today in all.religions

 

[Canuckster]

No sir. It wasn't the "Custom" of most of the Jews to follow the teaching of Moses. It was the Custom of Jesus to follow the teaching of Moses. Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, John the Baptist, the Wise men, all followed the teaching of Moses. But for most of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, it was the custom of the people to walk in the commandments and traditions of men that the Pharisees taught for doctrines. I posted these truths for your review, not my words, but what the Scriptures actually say.

I was hoping you might consider them.



Moses and the Prophets were the only "God Inspired" Holy Scriptures that existed then. Paul called the Law and Prophets "The Gospel of Christ" in Romans 1.

It is true that there is "another Jesus" that has been promoted by this world's religions since my youth. This Jesus, treats and judges men according to the DNA they were born with. For men born with Jewish DNA, if they full well reject the Commandments of God by their own traditions, or teach for doctrines the Commandments of men, they are rejected by Him and thrust out of the Kingdom of God in eternal damnation.

But for men who are born with Non-Jewish DNA, AKA "Gentiles", according to this world's religious philosophy, if they full well reject the Commandments of God by their own traditions, or teach for doctrines the Commandments of men, Jesus welcomes these men into Paradise for eternity, as long as they call Him Lord, Lord.

While I can see how seductive this religious philosophy might be, and why so "many" who call Jesus "Lord, Lord" choose this broad path to walk in, the Scriptures do not promote such a Jesus. There is no Jew or Gentile in the Christ, "of the Bible" and HE is no respecter of persons, judging men according to the DNA they were born with.

As Prophesied, "WE" sit in Moses Seat now, as God has delivered His Oracles to us, in our own home. And Paul teaches both Jew and Gentile that these Holy Scriptures are trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

Eph. 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

While the religious philosophy that the Christ has different programs for men, depending on the DNA they are born with is popular, and promoted by "Many" who come in Christ's Name, it is simply not true according to Scriptures. And Jesus Himself warns us, that we don not adopt their philosophies and be deceived.



Again, Paul is speaking to the Acts 15 event, where he told the Gentiles to abstain from breaking the Law of Moses concerning 4 issues commonly rejected by these Gentiles, telling them they can hear the rest, (Love your neighbor, don't covet, Sabbath of the Lord, etc) from Moses being read Every Sabbath.

You are not the only one who accuses Paul of teaching against the Holy Scriptures and the Laws of God defining Sin written for us therein.

27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him, 28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: "This is the man", that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.

Paul defended himself against these wicked allegations that the rebellious Jews, and you are making against Paul, which are not true.

10 Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself: 11 Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship. 12 And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city: 13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Sadly, many who "profess to know the Christ", really don't believe Him, just as those who professed to know Moses, didn't believe him either. Jesus said they will not be persuaded otherwise.

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though "one" rose from the dead.





But not God's Law. The Pharisees were NOT trying to convert Jews or Gentiles to God's Laws. They were trying to convert others to "Their religion, their Laws, their philosophies. Kind of like you are doing to me.

To believe you, I would have to reject "EVERY Word" Jesus spoke concerning the Pharisees and Scribes. "Every Word"! Why on earth would I turn away from the Jesus "of the bible" to follow the teaching of men who don't believe Him?

In Acts 15 the Apostles were protecting the Gentile converts from the mainstream religion of their time that taught for doctrines the commandments of men, and full well transgressed the Commandments of God by their own man-made traditions.

At least this is what the Jesus "of the bible" teaches.

We are in the same world, with the same Christ, and the same "course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"

I simply advocate "Living by" Every Word of God as the Jesus "of the Bible" instructs.

No. The Pharisees were trying to convert people to God's law expressed through their interpretation of the old contract between the children of Israel and God, also known as the law of Moses, which includes the 7th day Sabbath. The decree is crystal clear on what Gentiles are not required to do.: be circumcised and keep the law which includes the Sabbath. Today the Sabbath is necessary for monetary reasons. If the decree was obeyed the loss in global revenues to the Sabbatarian movement would be in the billions.

 

[Studyman]

Same applies today in all.religions

Absolutely, which is why the Jesus "of the bible" said to "come out of her".

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I will just comment on the first verse you mentioned,

2 Corinthians 3:6-11 NKJV

“6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.”

In 2 Corinthians 3:6-11, Paul contrasts the New Covenant in Christ with the Old Covenant given through Moses, highlighting the profound superiority of the New Covenant. He begins by stating that he and his fellow ministers are sufficient to serve in the ministry of the New Covenant, which is not based on the letter of the law but on the Spirit. The "letter" refers to the written law, specifically the commandments and other laws given to Moses, which, while glorious, ultimately "kills" because it exposes sin and condemns those who cannot keep it perfectly. The Spirit, however, gives life because it enables believers to fulfill God's will through grace and inner transformation rather than through external adherence to a set of rules.
What "other" laws? Are the words in the paragraph yours? If not, then reveal from where they came .

Paul further emphasizes this contrast by referring to the Old Covenant as the "ministry of death," describing it as "written and engraved on stones."
Paul refers to the Ten Commandments as being the ministry of death, not the Old Covenant, another error.

This is a direct reference to the Ten Commandments, which were inscribed on stone tablets and formed the foundation of the Old Covenant. The glory of this covenant, symbolized by Moses' radiant face after encountering God on Mount Sinai, was temporary. As Moses’ face faded in glory, it served as a sign that the Old Covenant, while glorious in its time, was only a shadow of something greater to come. This fading glory, though remarkable, was not permanent and pointed forward to a more lasting glory in the New Covenant.
Did you write that? If so, then you are in total agreement with the Ten Commandments being done away, no longer enforced

Paul then rhetorically asks how much more glorious the "ministry of the Spirit" must be. If the Old Covenant Ten Commandments had glory despite its limitations, how much greater is the glory of the New Covenant, which offers righteousness and life through the Holy Spirit. The Old Covenant, Ten Commandments known as the "ministry of condemnation," could only point out sin and condemn, but the New Covenant is the "ministry of righteousness," offering justification and transformation through faith in Christ. The Old Covenant revealed God's standard of holiness but did not provide the power to live it out; the New Covenant, however, empowers believers to live righteously through the Holy Spirit.
Again, did you write that? Then you agree with the real truth.

Paul underscores that the glory of the Old Covenant, while real, is less in comparison to the glory of the New Covenant. The Old Covenant was temporary, with rituals, sacrifices, and laws that pointed to Christ, but the New Covenant is eternal and fully realized in Christ’s life, death, and resurrection. The Old Covenant has passed away, and its glory, though once dazzling, pales when compared to the surpassing glory of the New Covenant.
Amen!

In his argument, Paul makes a clear distinction between the Ten Commandments and the rest of the law given through Moses. The Ten Commandments represent the core moral foundation of the Old Covenant and reveal God’s eternal moral standards, which still apply today
Another blatant error. How could the Ten Commandments, which were only temporary and replaced with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, be the eternal moral standard today. since they were temporary?

. They form the heart of the Old Covenant, pointing out sin but offering no power to overcome it. The rest of the law, ceremonial, civil, and ritual, was given to regulate Israel’s religious and social life and to set them apart as a holy nation. These laws were temporary and were fulfilled in Christ, particularly the ceremonial laws which pointed to His ultimate sacrifice. While the Ten Commandments continue to hold significance for believers as a moral guide, the other laws are no longer binding because they were fulfilled in Christ and replaced by the New Covenant.
This paragraph sounds like your words, which nullifies everything written above it. The greatest commandments, love, are found in the part of the Old Covenant you nullified. You have absolutely no basis for your statement.

The intended meaning of Paul is clear: while the Old Covenant, which includes both the Ten Commandments and the rest of the law, was glorious in its time and served to reveal God’s holiness,
The Law reveals God's holiness? You and I cannot fathom the holiness of God.

it ultimately could not bring salvation or life. The New Covenant, however, brings life through the Holy Spirit and offers eternal glory that far surpasses the temporary glory of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant, defined in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is grounded in the grace of God,
empowering believers to live righteously not through the letter of the law but through the Holy Spirit, who transforms the hearts of those who believe.
Amen!

In this New Covenant, the essence of the Ten Commandments is internalized—written on the hearts of believers—so that they are no longer merely external rules to follow,, but principles of godly living empowered by the Holy Spirit."
The essence of the Ten Commandments is internalized—written on the hearts of believers????? No, no , no, how could what was only temporary and replaced with God in us be the principles of Godly living? The Ten Commandments didn't even have the greatest command to love one another.

The first part of the above statement is so true, but then came some statements that completely nullifies the first part. OY!

Hi Bob, ill be away for a few days but I will reply when in can

Blessings.

 

[Studyman]

No. The Pharisees were trying to convert people to God's law expressed through the old contract between the children of Israel and God, also known as the law of Moses, which includes the 7th day Sabbath.

Can you show me just one quote from Jesus, as HE defines the Pharisees, where HE is accusing them of keeping or promoting the Laws God gave to them though Moses. And if you can't, then why is that? Is it because Jesus is wrong and didn't know what HE was talking about when HE defined for us the religion of the Pharisees, but you are enlightened above Him and knows better then HE?

Please show me even one place in the Law and Prophets, or Jesus' own Words in which HE teaches that the Pharisees were keeping or teaching God's Laws.

Of course you can't, because He didn't, because the Pharisees were children of the devil, "children of disobedience".

And they were not trying to get the new Converts to obey God's Laws, as the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches.

Matt. 15: 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments "of men".

Are you teaching that Jesus is lying to me here?

The decree is crystal clear on what Gentiles are not required to do.: be circumcised and keep the law which includes the Sabbath. Today the Sabbath is necessary for monetary reasons. If the decree was obeyed the loss in global revenues to the Sabbatarian movement would be in the billions globally.

What Law, according to what is actually written, were the Pharisees "keeping"? The commandments of God, or the Commandments of men?

The problem with this world's religious system, in all of it's different religious sects and businesses, is everyone who adopts them, are taught to defend, justify and promote them, regardless of what God's Word actually teaches. So it is most difficult to have an honest discussion with a promoter of this world's religious system, regarding what is actually written in Scriptures.

Your replies, much to my dismay, are a perfect example of this tradition. I post Jesus Words telling to you what Law the Pharisees lived by and promoted. I posted their own words where they said "We have a Law". I posted Paul's Words where he tells us the Pharisees refused to submit to God's Righteousness, and went about instead to establish their own righteousness.

But you are not influenced by any of these Holy Scriptures. You still promote the insidious falsehood that the Pharisees were trying to convert others to God's Laws. How can you reconcile such behavior?

If it were possible to have an honest discussion, I would ask you, "Where is there a Commandment of God to "Circumcise" a grown man first, then after he is circumcised, show him God's Laws to walk in?

 

[Canuckster]

Can you show me just one quote from Jesus, as HE defines the Pharisees, where HE is accusing them of keeping or promoting the Laws God gave to them though Moses. And if you can't, then why is that? Is it because Jesus is wrong and didn't know what HE was talking about when HE defined for us the religion of the Pharisees, but you are enlightened above Him and knows better then HE?

Please show me even one place in the Law and Prophets, or Jesus' own Words in which HE teaches that the Pharisees were keeping or teaching God's Laws.

Of course you can't, because He didn't, because the Pharisees were children of the devil, "children of disobedience".

And they were not trying to get the new Converts to obey God's Laws, as the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches.

Matt. 15: 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments "of men".

Are you teaching that Jesus is lying to me here?



What Law, according to what is actually written, were the Pharisees "keeping"? The commandments of God, or the Commandments of men?

The problem with this world's religious system, in all of it's different religious sects and businesses, is everyone who adopts them, are taught to defend, justify and promote them, regardless of what God's Word actually teaches. So it is most difficult to have an honest discussion with a promoter of this world's religious system, regarding what is actually written in Scriptures.

Your replies, much to my dismay, are a perfect example of this tradition. I post Jesus Words telling to you what Law the Pharisees lived by and promoted. I posted their own words where they said "We have a Law". I posted Paul's Words where he tells us the Pharisees refused to submit to God's Righteousness, and went about instead to establish their own righteousness.

But you are not influenced by any of these Holy Scriptures. You still promote the insidious falsehood that the Pharisees were trying to convert others to God's Laws. How can you reconcile such behavior?

If it were possible to have an honest discussion, I would ask you, "Where is there a Commandment of God to "Circumcise" a grown man first, then after he is circumcised, show him God's Laws to walk in?

I said the Pharisees were teaching others their interpretation of the law just like you teach others your interpretation of the law.

 

[Canuckster]

I said the Pharisees were teaching others their interpretation of the law just like you teach others your interpretation of the law.

Now in the decree, the apostles' interpretation of the law, which included the Sabbath, was not a requirement for Gentile believers. This is a clearly stated fact.

 

[Studyman]

I said the Pharisees were teaching others their interpretation of the law just like you teach others your interpretation of the law.

Like I said, it's hard to have an honest discussion with someone who is only here to justify their reliigon.

"The decree wasn't just about not requiring circumcision but not requiring Gentiles to keep the law of Moses, which includes the Sabbath."

 

[Studyman]

Now in the decree, the apostles' interpretation of the law, which included the Sabbath, was not a requirement for Gentile believers. This is a clearly stated fact.

The "Apostles interpretation of the laws of God" including the Sabbath Commandment, was not a requirement for Gentile believers". But eating Blood and eating things strangled are acceptable Laws of God to you?

So let me get this straight, in your religion "The Pharisees interpretation of God's Laws", and the "Apostles interpretation of God's Laws", which included God's Sabbath Commandment, were not a requirement of repentance for the Gentiles.

But your interpretation of God's Laws which rejects the Sabbath Commandment, is a requirement for the Gentiles?

OK, it's your religion. I only wanted to have an honest discussion about what is actually written.

 

[Canuckster]

Like I said, it's hard to have an honest discussion with someone who is only here to justify their reliigon.

"The decree wasn't just about not requiring circumcision but not requiring Gentiles to keep the law of Moses, which includes the Sabbath."

What are you talking about? You're rambling on about everything just to avoid the main point which is hardly honest discussion. All I'm saying is that the scripture is crystal clear:

"The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:
Greetings."

This is a letter directly from the leaders of the Church sent to the Gentile believers in Asia

"Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment."

Those "some who went out" were most likely sent by the Pharisee sect that said earlier to the Jerusalem congregation: “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”

So we now know exactly what law the apostles and the elders are talking about in the decree, the law of Moses, whether it's according to the Pharisees' interpretation, Moses' interpretation, the apostles' interpretation or your interpretation, we all know that it includes the 7th day Sabbath rest. And this gives further evidence that the visit to the Gentiles in Asia wasn't just about circumcision, but it was also about getting them to keep the law of Moses.

And the apostles and the elders, by decree, voided all the plans and efforts of the Pharisee sect, that secretly went over their heads to get the Gentiles circumcised and keeping the law of Moses, by simply saying in that decree, "we gave no such commandment."

That's it. Case closed. There never was a command from the apostles for Gentiles to keep the law of Moses which includes the Sabbath. The only reason to disobey this decree and teach people a modern, Gentile version of the law of Moses, that was invented by a Gentile woman of the 19th/20th century, is for monetary reasons. And that's the truth!

 

[Canuckster]

And with regards to blood eating and things strangled, if you were truly an honest debater,, you know that is totally irrelevant for today but the sexual immorality certainly is. The decree is primarily about what Gentile believers are not required to do than what they are required to do because it's addressing the main issue: do Gentile believers have to get circumcised and keep the law?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There is no circumcision in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:1-17. The Sabbath started way before circumcision Circumcision started after the fall of man.

The Sabbath started at Creation thus saith the Lord and God revealed this by His own Testimony written by the finger of God. Exo 31:18

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

At Creation there was no Jew or Gentile, just man, made in the image of God. God rested on the seventh day at Creation where the first Sabbath started made for man. Mark 2:27

Acts 15 was not about what every Gentile was to keep and not keep as many things were missing that most Christians today would say we are to keep like to love God with all our heart and love thy neighbor.

The Gentiles were learning these things when they were keeping the Sabbath commandment with the apostles.

Acts 15:21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

Christ in His own Words calls keeping the Sabbath as doing justice and righteousness and it is the foundation of His Throne Psa 89:14

The Sabbath is a commandment of God, God’s people both Jews and Gentiles keep God’s commandments based on faith, love and following in the example Jesus set forth for us. 1 John 5:3 Rev 14:12 John 15:10 1 John 2:6

Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:
“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,


2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant


No wonder why we see a little bit further in Isaiah
Isa 66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

I sure wouldn’t want to miss out, because man can’t bless or sanctify themselves Isa 66:17 both relates to the Sabbath, thus saith the Lord Isa 56:2 Eze 20:12

All are invited to keep the Sabbath since Creation we all need to have quality time with our Creator and God’s blessing and sanctification and the Sabbath is about honoring God and resting in Him, allowing Him to be God and us to serve Him, on the Holy Day of the Lord thus saith the Lord Isa 58:13. The Sabbath will continue in the New Heaven and New Earth for all flesh, those saved, not just the Jews Isa 66:23. God only has one people in His Covenant and are part of the promises and that is those grafted in by faith Gal 3:26-29.

Happy Sabbath!