Did the early church worship on Sabbath?

[FredVB]

There is no "from Sabbath to Sabbath" in all of scripture that is "from week to week - pick any day you like".
There is no "every Sabbath" in all of scripture that is "weekly - pick any day you like".

Is 66:23 is clearly about a weekly day of worship and Isaiah's readers would know that from Sabbath to Sabbath had a very specific meaning.

So then - - that is back to exegesis again.

It is indeed Sabbath every seven days, observed jointly in community, and others observing it would not have some other day observed as the seventh. And Yahweh had said every seventh day, not every seventh day for three weeks and then the eighth day after, to be the seventh after the new moon. That clear direction is missing in the Bible and the understanding of it that way must be imposed. New Moon observance which Jews had is not mentioned in the ten commandments, every seventh day for Sabbath is still in those commandments. Early Christian believers observed it to and at the earliest with the apostles there they gathered for the Jewish congregation at the temple or in synagogues that were around.

 

[FredVB]

Sounds good

That's why I keep the Sabbath
and the feast

1 Corinthians 5:8
Therefore let’s keep the feast, not with old yeast, neither with the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth

Why is the feast here the feast of the new moon? With yeast being metaphorical, it refers to the feast of unleavened bread, and yeast just representing malice and wickedness, and as Jesus referred to the yeast of the Pharisees it is the untruthfulness and unrighteousness too. And the lamb is just representing the Lamb of God, Jesus who was slain for the atonement we really need, so, why is it argued by so many that Jesus must have been eating flesh of a lamb at Passover, when the lamb was just representing him? He did not need to eat lamb to be the Lamb of God for us!

The Sabbath is still the Sabbath there always has been, the seventh day shown in the ten commandments, that God said is holy, it is the time of rest for man, that we have more opportunity to have time with God and coming that way more to God's will for us, with it being revealed, as it will be, yet more.

 

[FredVB]

Far more needs to be revealed to believers than what they have with being saved, and even with what is known from what they hear in their church, or even reading the Bible. With growth spiritually there would be fruits of the Spirit showing, and it is desirable for believers to learn God's will for them fully that growth would lead to that they would submit to it. God's will above what God permits is shown but often passed over with teaching and understandings we get as believers, as we learn from the Bible. But things should not be dismissed. A good approach is to see what God shows first in revelation is from God's will, any of what is shown later in sequence from God in any way contrary is concession or something for our shortcoming with the stubbornness and hardened hearts of people in general. Such ones are not looking for God's will over everything else, to do such things of that.

 

[Leaf473]

Why is the feast here the feast of the new moon?

Hi Fred There's lots of possibilities.I think Isaiah is basically saying month to month and week to week, on a regular basis, everyone will come to worship the Lord

But if someone wants to say it's Sabbath to Sabbath, that's cool, just it seems in context then New Moon to New Moon would be the best fit

With yeast being metaphorical, it refers to the feast of unleavened bread, and yeast just representing malice and wickedness, and as Jesus referred to the yeast of the Pharisees it is the untruthfulness and unrighteousness too. And the lamb is just representing the Lamb of God, Jesus who was slain for the atonement we really need, so, why is it argued by so many that Jesus must have been eating flesh of a lamb at Passover, when the lamb was just representing him? He did not need to eat lamb to be the Lamb of God for us!

Scripture doesn't tell us if Jesus ate the lamb or not for sure. But it looks to me like the lamb was intended to be eaten

On the tenth day of this month, they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to their fathers’ houses, a lamb for a household; 4 and if the household is too little for a lamb, then he and his neighbor next to his house shall take one according to the number of the souls. You shall make your count for the lamb according to what everyone can eat Exodus 12

The Sabbath is still the Sabbath there always has been, the seventh day shown in the ten commandments, that God said is holy, it is the time of rest for man, that we have more opportunity to have time with God and coming that way more to God's will for us, with it being revealed, as it will be, yet more.

If Isaiah 66 is taking place at a time when there is no night, then it looks to me like Sabbath would need to be metaphorical, or at least not calculated by sunset

As far as the seventh day being a day of rest for humans, it sounds good at first. But then if we're going to use sunset to calculate it, the issue of the international date line arises. Most seventh day observers use the IDL. That's an interesting combination, since it would be something human-made modifying the Sabbath

The sun also rises, and the sun goes down, and hurries to its place where it rises Ecclesiastes 1

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Scripture doesn't tell us if Jesus ate the lamb or not for sure. But it looks to me like the lamb was intended to be eaten

On the tenth day of this month, they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to their fathers’ houses, a lamb for a household; 4 and if the household is too little for a lamb, then he and his neighbor next to his house shall take one according to the number of the souls. You shall make your count for the lamb according to what everyone can eat Exodus 12

As far as the seventh day being a day of rest for humans, it sounds good at first. But then if we're going to use sunset to calculate it, the issue of the international date line arises. Most seventh day observers use the IDL. That's an interesting combination, since it would be something human-made modifying the Sabbath

There was NO lamb mentioned there at the last supper (other than Yeshua Himself). Yeshua was accepted by Israel on the 10th when He rode into the city on a donkey and sacrificed on the 14th. . Shabbat is sunset to sunset WHERE EVER you are.

 

[Leaf473]

There was NO lamb mentioned there at the last supper (other than Yeshua Himself).

The disciples set aside Exodus 12 while still being in the old covenant? Interesting idea

On the tenth day of this month, they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to their fathers’ houses, a lamb for a household

and

They shall eat the meat in that night, roasted with fire, with unleavened bread

Yeshua was accepted by Israel on the 10th when He rode into the city on a donkey and sacrificed on the 14th.

Awesome!

Shabbat is sunset to sunset WHERE EVER you are.

The sun sets in the USA before it does in Jerusalem. Then the sun sets again in the USA after the sunset in Jerusalem. Which one is the right one?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The disciples set aside Exodus 12 while still being in the old covenant? Interesting idea

On the tenth day of this month, they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to their fathers’ houses, a lamb for a household

and

They shall eat the meat in that night, roasted with fire, with unleavened bread


Awesome!


The sun sets in the USA before it does in Jerusalem. Then the sun sets again in the USA after the sunset in Jerusalem. Which one is the right one?

Nothing was "set aside"...it was fulfilled. The problem was the last supper was on the evening of the 13th (which would actually be the beginning of the 14th), Yeshua died on the 14th. The seders were held on the evening of the 14th (the beginning of the 15th) and he would already have been buried before sunset. Shabbat begins at sunset in the US and at sunset in Jerusalem...

 

[Leaf473]

Nothing was "set aside"...it was fulfilled.

The disciples know it was fulfilled at that time?

The problem was the last supper was on the evening of the 13th (which would actually be the beginning of the 14th), Yeshua died on the 14th. The seders were held on the evening of the 14th (the beginning of the 15th) and he would already have been buried before sunset.

Shabbat begins at sunset in the US and at sunset in Jerusalem...

The sunset in the US before or after the one in Jerusalem?

Deuteronomy 33:14 for the precious things of the fruits of the sun, for the precious things that the moon can yield

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The disciples know it was fulfilled at that time?

The sunset in the US before or after the one in Jerusalem?

Whether they did or not does not matter...it was fulfilled. Sunset is sunset, where ever you are.

 

[Leaf473]

Whether they did or not does not matter...it was fulfilled.

If they didn't know it was fulfilled, then it seems likely they would have procured a lamb and eaten it. If Jesus didn't partake, it seems likely they would have commented on that

But that's just how it looks to me

Sunset is sunset, where ever you are.

Well, sunset marking the end of the 6th day, that's the issue

People in Manila generally regard the 7th day as starting before it does in Jerusalem. But in the USA, they generally regard it as starting after

According to the scriptures, who is correct?

The sun also rises, and the sun goes down, and hurries to its place where it rises - Ecclesiastes

 

[Leaf473]

@Yeshua HaDerekh , my impression from post #442 is that the real issue is vegetarianism. Is that your primary concern here as well?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

If they didn't know it was fulfilled, then it seems likely they would have procured a lamb and eaten it. If Jesus didn't partake, it seems likely they would have commented on that

Well, sunset marking the end of the 6th day, that's the issue

People in Manila generally regard the 7th day as starting before it does in Jerusalem. But in the USA, they generally regard it as starting after

According to the scriptures, who is correct?

Why would they, it was 24hrs too early...the last supper was held at the beginning of the 14th.
Sunset is sunset. There is no issue. Shabbat in Manila starts at sunset and in the US it starts at sunset. It is a very simple concept...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

@Yeshua HaDerekh , my impression from post #442 is that the real issue is vegetarianism. Is that your primary concern here as well?

lol what does vegetarianism have to do with anything????

 

[Leaf473]

Why would they, it was 24hrs too early...the last supper was held at the beginning of the 14th.

If you're putting forward the idea that the last supper was not the Passover meal, then that makes sense

Sunset is sunset. There is no issue. Shabbat in Manila starts at sunset and in the US it starts at sunset. It is a very simple concept...

Why doesn't the Sabbath start in the USA before it starts in Manila?

 

[Leaf473]

lol what does vegetarianism have to do with anything????

It's very important to many seventh day observers

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

If you're putting forward the idea that the last supper was not the Passover meal, then that makes sense


Why doesn't the Sabbath start in the USA before it starts in Manila?

Because it wasn't. They both begin at Sunset. I don't see the problem.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

It's very important to many seventh day observers

Why would it be. Jews all over the world keep it at sunset where ever we are.

 

[Leaf473]

Because it wasn't.

That's fine, I'm not locked into a particular day before the last supper, etc

They both begin at Sunset. I don't see the problem.

The sun sets in New York City marking the beginning of the seventh day, and then about 3 hours later in Los Angeles. As the sunset moves across the Pacific, it sets in Manila about 8 hours after that, still marking the beginning of the seventh day

But the people there celebrated the seventh day 24 hours earlier

Is that an issue, or is it no big deal as long as you pick a sunset?

Why would it be.

If you're talking about vegetarianism, it's important to many seventh day observers because of the writings of Ellen White. Maybe I should clarify that as Christian seventh Day observers

Jews all over the world keep it at sunset where ever we are.

Many Jewish people are fine following the traditions of the rabbis. Many Christian seventh day observers dislike that idea

 

[prodromos]

Is that an issue, or is it no big deal as long as you pick a sunset?

There is a thing known as the international date line. Perhaps you haven't heard of it.

 

[Jan001]

The Sabbath (Saturday) was commanded for the Israelites/Jews and the converts to Judaism under the first covenant, but the Sabbath was not commanded for the Christians under the new covenant. The non-Jewish Christians were orally taught by the apostles to rest and worship on the first day of the week (Sunday). Acts 20:7, 2 Thessalonians 2:15

First covenant:
Exodus 31:13
You must also tell the Israelites: Keep my sabbaths, for that is to be the sign between you and me throughout the generations, to show that it is I, the Lord, who make you holy.

Circumcision was required under the first covenant. Genesis 17:13-14, Ezekiel 44:7


New Covenant:
1 Corinthians 7:18
Was someone called after he had been circumcised? He should not try to undo his circumcision. Was an uncircumcised person called? He should not be circumcised.

Galatians 5:2-6
It is I, Paul, who am telling you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 Once again I declare to every man who has himself circumcised that he is bound to observe the entire law. 4 You are separated from Christ, you who are trying to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we await the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

The non-Jewish Christians were commanded to not receive the circumcision of the Jews.


The Sabbath law and the circumcision law were both required for an Israelite/Jew under the first covenant.

Neither of these laws are relevant for a Christian under the new covenant of Jesus Christ.