Did the early church worship on Sabbath?

[Leaf473]

In the Greek LXX it is translated month from month Sabbath from Sabbath.

That is the context of the conversation.

The Hebrew word for New moon was translated to the Greek word for month. The Sabbath translated the same. There are Greek words for week. They were not used.

If the context of the discussion is limited to the lxx, then you are correct

 

[HIM]

You either don't read what I write or you don't understand it. I already explained it to you.

Traditions and what we do or don't do unless through God and His Spirit has no bearing on the Word and the Testimony to which we are to speak. You can't explain that it does because it doesn't.

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Every time you write something about me,, this quote above is what I see and the response will be the same.

 

[HIM]

lol in Judaism it is. The weekdays are counts to each Shabbat so no actually I didn't take Shabbat out of it..

You said week to week. So yes you did take the Sabbath out of it. If someone was not aware, your use of week would have kept them unaware.

That is the issue.

LOL?

This is funny ?

Even if one is coming from ignorance, confusion, sin indrenched life there is nothing lol about it.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You said week to week. So yes you did take the Sabbath out of it. If someone was not aware, your use of week would have kept them unaware.

That is the issue.

LOL?

This is funny ?

Even if one is coming from ignorance, confusion, sin indrenched life there is nothing lol about it.

it is funny because you obviously do not understand the Hebraic context on how days are counted in Judaism...why won't you answer my questions?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Every time you write something about me,, this quote above is what I see and the response will be the same.

what are you 5 years old? Why won't you answer my questions? You call out others but when someone questions YOU, you hide...Matthew 7:1-5

 

[HIM]

it is funny because you obviously do not understand the Hebraic context on how days are counted in Judaism...why won't you answer my questions?

You said week to week. So yes you did take the Sabbath out of it. If someone was not aware (the Hebraic context on how days are counted in Judaism.), your use of week would have kept them unaware.

That is the issue.

what are you 5 years old? Why won't you answer my questions? You call out others but when someone questions YOU, you hide...Matthew 7:1-5

what are you 5 years old? The premise of our conversation is not you or I. Though you seem to try to steer it that way. If judging you is sharing God and His Word through Christ Jesus so be it.

Take care

 

[HIM]

I am reposting since it is what instigated the last two or so pages. It is slightly edited

Not true - Colossians 2:16.

Jesus Christ, who is God, did things on the Sabbath that had been assumed to be prohibited, and what is more, He told us how to remember Him - through partaking of His Body and Blood in the Eucharist.

Jesus never said communion was to take the place of the Sabbath. Nowhere is it implied either. The connection that communion has is to the Passover, not the Sabbath.

As Sabbathblessings said Colossians 2:16 must be read and understood within the context of the passages in which it is cited. And that would include what is said in chapter 1 and 3 in this case. Here is the summery of chapter 1. Do you agree with it? Chapter 2 is in context to it's premise. We will move to that when appropriate.

Wherein it is written that there is a hope, an expectation laid up in Heaven for us which we heard in the truth of the Gospel. This expectation is present with us to walk worthy of the Lord. Bearing fruit in every good work. Increasing in the recognition of God. We Being endued~ in all power, in accord with the mightiness of His *glory, into all endurance and patience with joy. Giving thanks to the Father. The One who has made and continues to make us competent, partakers of the inheritance of the saints, in *light. Rescuing us out of the power of darkness. Transferring us into the kingdom of His Son of His love. In Whom we have deliverance, the remission, removal of the sins through His blood. And by Him (Jesus) all things consist, are held together.
Reconciled in the body of His flesh through death to present us holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If we continue in the faith grounded and settled, being not moved away from the hope ( joyful expectation) of the gospel, which we have heard. The expectation laid up in heaven for us. The mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints (us): To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you (us), the hope, expectation of glory.
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect, Holy, unblameable and unreprovable in and through Christ Jesus. Being rescued from the power of darkness being translated into the Kingdom, the Body of Christ, the Temple of God. Wherein we labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in us mightily.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You said week to week. So yes you did take the Sabbath out of it. If someone was not aware (the Hebraic context on how days are counted in Judaism.), your use of week would have kept them unaware.

That is the issue.

what are you 5 years old? The premise of our conversation is not you or I. Though you seem to try to steer it that way. If judging you is sharing God and His Word through Christ Jesus so be it.

Take care

You say that because you don't understand how days are named and counted in Hebrew. If you did you would not say what you did. And yet that IS the context it was written in...Hebrew. If I say new moon to new moon, what does that mean to you? If I say from Sabbath to sabbath...what does that mean to you? You are arguing semantics. It is silly. THAT is the issue. What IS important is the CONTEXT. I have provided that. All you want to do is argue. Grow up.

 

[HIM]

You say that because you don't understand how days are named and counted in Hebrew.

No we said that because,
You said week to week. So yes you did take the Sabbath out of it. If someone was not aware (the Hebraic context on how days are counted in Judaism.), your use of week would have kept them unaware.

That is the issue.

As was this section of your quote Everything else you said is more about me. Would you like some stones?

I see you are done, take care. Unless you have something objective to add, so are we.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No we said that because,
You said week to week. So yes you did take the Sabbath out of it. If someone was not aware (the Hebraic context on how days are counted in Judaism.), your use of week would have kept them unaware.

That is the issue.

As was this section of your quote Everything else you said is more about me. Would you like some stones?

I see you are done, take care. Unless you have something objective to add, so are we.

It was WRITTEN in a Hebraic context...are you that dense!?!? you are a broken record! Oy vey! I am still waiting for you to answer my questions. Again, if I say new moon to new moon, what does that mean to you? If I say from Sabbath to sabbath...what does that mean to you? You are arguing semantics. It is silly. THAT is the issue. What IS important is the CONTEXT. I have provided that. You are the one that brought up Torah and what is and is not in it. So you say you keep shabbat but when questioned, you hide. Scripture says that Yeshua went to the Synagogue "as was His TRADITION". So Yeshua kept Jewish traditions. Are synagogues commanded in Torah? You won't answer shows you are NOT interested in truth, just arguing and acting like you are superior to everyone. but in the end you act like a 5 year old. Take your ball and go home. Blocking you is the easiest thing to do so I won't have to see any more of your silly arguments.

 

[Leaf473]

In the Greek LXX it is translated month from month Sabbath from Sabbath.

That is the context of the conversation.

The Hebrew word for New moon was translated to the Greek word for month. The Sabbath translated the same. There are Greek words for week. They were not used.

If the context of the discussion is limited to the lxx, then you are correct

So... In your view, HIM, why is all flesh going every month to Jerusalem to worship the Lord? And... any particular day in each month?

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 66:20 - New American Standard Bible

Then they shall bring all your countrymen from all the nations as a grain offering to the LORD, on horses, in chariots, in litters, on mules, and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,” says the LORD, “just as the sons of Israel bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[HIM]

So... In your view, HIM, why is all flesh going every month to Jerusalem to worship the Lord? And... any particular day in each month?

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 66:20 - New American Standard Bible

Then they shall bring all your countrymen from all the nations as a grain offering to the LORD, on horses, in chariots, in litters, on mules, and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,” says the LORD, “just as the sons of Israel bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the...

www.biblegateway.com

Why does it matter? The fact that they are should be sufficient.

Gesenius, Lexicon-
" Isa 66:23, i.e. “as often as month (comes) in its month,” i.e. in its own time; every month; and so מִדֵּי שָׁנָה בְשָׁנָה yearly, 1Sam 7:16, Zech 14:16."

Here is "a" literal translation of the clause in the Hebrew which agrees with Gesenius' findings.

Isa 66:23 "וְהָיָ֗ה shall come מִֽדֵּי־ in the sufficient חֹ֙דֶשׁ֙ moon בְּחָדְשׁ֔וֹ in moon and וּמִדֵּ֥י and from sufficient שַׁבָּ֖ת sabbath בְּשַׁבַּתּ֑וֹ in Sabbath"

As far as why we will look at the immediate context and get back to you. It seemed important (at least to me) to get at least this much out for now.

 

[HIM]

I am reposting since it is what instigated the last two or so pages. It is slightly edited

Jesus never said communion was to take the place of the Sabbath. Nowhere is it implied either. The connection that communion has is to the Passover, not the Sabbath.

As Sabbathblessings said Colossians 2:16 must be read and understood within the context of the passages in which it is cited. And that would include what is said in chapter 1 and 3 in this case. Here is the summery of chapter 1. Do you agree with it? Chapter 2 is in context to it's premise. We will move to that when appropriate.

Wherein it is written that there is a hope, an expectation laid up in Heaven for us which we heard in the truth of the Gospel. This expectation is present with us to walk worthy of the Lord. Bearing fruit in every good work. Increasing in the recognition of God. We Being endued~ in all power, in accord with the mightiness of His *glory, into all endurance and patience with joy. Giving thanks to the Father. The One who has made and continues to make us competent, partakers of the inheritance of the saints, in *light. Rescuing us out of the power of darkness. Transferring us into the kingdom of His Son of His love. In Whom we have deliverance, the remission, removal of the sins through His blood. And by Him (Jesus) all things consist, are held together.
Reconciled in the body of His flesh through death to present us holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If we continue in the faith grounded and settled, being not moved away from the hope ( joyful expectation) of the gospel, which we have heard. The expectation laid up in heaven for us. The mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints (us): To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you (us), the hope, expectation of glory.
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect, Holy, unblameable and unreprovable in and through Christ Jesus. Being rescued from the power of darkness being translated into the Kingdom, the Body of Christ, the Temple of God. Wherein we labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in us mightily.

As we continue in chapter 2 of Colossians we see That our hearts are to be comforted, knitted together in love. In the full assurance of the understanding and the acknowledgement of the Mystery of God. Which is Christ in you the hope. the joyful expectation of glory. In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge of God. Wherein we are not beguiled by enticing words. That we remain established in the faith of Christ Jesus. In that we whom have received Christ, have put on Christ, so walk ye in Him. Us in Him He in us. That the world might believe

Being Rooted and being built up in Him. Established in the faith. Rescued from the power of darkness. Translated into the Kingdom of His dear Son. Made competent, to present us Holy, unblamable and unreprovable in His sight. And excelling in it with thanksgiving. Even as ye were taught. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the God bodily. And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in cutting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him, quickened together with him; circumcised, the cutting off of the sins of the flesh having risen with Him having forgiven us all trespasses Wherein we labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in us mightily. Being endued with all power in accordance with the mightiness of God's Glory in Christ Jesus through faith.


Having forgiven us all trespasses. How does this forgiveness mentioned in verse 13 connect to verses 14-16 contexually?

 

[FredVB]

There is sometimes a misunderstanding of forgiveness. Unbelievers will be critical at times that there is belief that Jesus had to be killed to appease God, that God would forgive. The sacrifice, for atonement, was not for God to be forgiving. God is already ready to forgive. The plan all along, through eternity, was that the fair and just judgment would be borne, that there would be fallen then being redeemed. But then the needed faith with repentance is to have those ones redeemed turning away from sins and turning to obedience to God. How is that done, but seeing God's will and doing so? We do need to be enabled for that. But commandments are showing God's will. They are not obsolete. And ahead of those, there is God's will shown all along, from the beginning. Any changes along the way are accommodations for the hardness of hearts and stubbornness of people. God's will does not change, God is not changing. And God's word is still forever.

 

[BobRyan]

To be fair, it looks to me like Isaiah 66:23 can be translated either way

Month / new moon
Week/sabbath

It also looks to me like to be consistent, if one goes with "month", then one should also go with "week" and vice versa

____

As a side note, since this often comes up
Many people assume a 28 day lunar cycle
But the number of days actually varies
The average is 29.5

There is no "from Sabbath to Sabbath" in all of scripture that is "from week to week - pick any day you like".
There is no "every Sabbath" in all of scripture that is "weekly - pick any day you like".

Is 66:23 is clearly about a weekly day of worship and Isaiah's readers would know that from Sabbath to Sabbath had a very specific meaning.

So then - - that is back to exegesis again.

 

[Leaf473]

There is no "from Sabbath to Sabbath" in all of scripture that is "from week to week - pick any day you like".
There is no "every Sabbath" in all of scripture that is "weekly - pick any day you like".

Is 66:23 is clearly about a weekly day of worship and Isaiah's readers would know that from Sabbath to Sabbath had a very specific meaning.

So then - - that is back to exegesis again.

That's fine. Then to be consistent, it should be new moon to new moon, as well

The job of the Levites... to stand every morning to thank and praise the Lord, and likewise in the evening; 31 and to offer all burnt offerings to the Lord on the Sabbaths, on the new moons, and on the set feasts, in number according to the ordinance concerning them, continually before the Lord 1 Chronicles 23

Psalm 42:4
These things I remember, and pour out my soul within me, how I used to go with the crowd, and led them to God’s house, with the voice of joy and praise, a multitude keeping a holy day

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

That's fine. Then to be consistent, it should be new moon to new moon, as well

The job of the Levites... to stand every morning to thank and praise the Lord, and likewise in the evening; 31 and to offer all burnt offerings to the Lord on the Sabbaths, on the new moons, and on the set feasts, in number according to the ordinance concerning them, continually before the Lord 1 Chronicles 23

Psalm 42:4
These things I remember, and pour out my soul within me, how I used to go with the crowd, and led them to God’s house, with the voice of joy and praise, a multitude keeping a holy day

Leaf, sometimes you do a step forward towards the truth but most days it's 2 steps backwards, why dont you start to permanently walk forward instead, it could be interesting for all of us.

You know very well the Levitical priesthood and sacrifices are no longer necessary!

 

[BobRyan]

That's fine. Then to be consistent, it should be new moon to new moon, as well

I am fine with that since in the New Earth there are two creation events to be remembered. The one in Gen 1 and the one in Rev 21.

For now - the Gen 1-2 creation event is embedded in the Ten words of Ex 20 -- and as Deut 5 points out "He added no more"

 

[Leaf473]

Leaf, sometimes you do a step forward towards the truth but most days it's 2 steps backwards, why dont you start to permanently walk forward instead, it could be interesting for all of us.

You know very well the Levitical priesthood and sacrifices are no longer necessary!

I agree with that! Which is why it seems strange that Isaiah would be talking about new moons. I suspect the passage is meant to be understood metaphorically

he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi, and refine them as gold and silver; and they shall offer to the Lord offerings in righteousness Malachi 3

 

[Leaf473]

I am fine with that since in the New Earth there are two creation events to be remembered. The one in Gen 1 and the one in Rev 21.

For now - the Gen 1-2 creation event is embedded in the Ten words of Ex 20 -- and as Deut 5 points out "He added no more"

Sounds good

That's why I keep the Sabbath
and the feast

1 Corinthians 5:8
Therefore let’s keep the feast, not with old yeast, neither with the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth