End times time frames by chapter and fit

[Spiritual Jew]

Do you believe that Jesus returns to stand on the Mt. of Olives splitting it in half as it says in Zechariah 14:4 ? The Mt. of Olives is directly across from the temple mount. - where the beast-king, the false prophet , and Satan will be.

LOL. Douggg, do you just forget every discussion we ever have? I'm a bit concerned about your apparent memory issue. You know I'm an Amillennialist. You know that I don't interpret Zechariah 14 the way you do. At least, you should know that by now. If you don't, explain how you can possibly not know that? I even put the label "Amillennialist" on my profile per your request a couple years ago or whenever it was. It does not even seem possible that you would not already know that I'm an Amillennialist.

I don't think I have heard anyone, other than you, say that the beast-king and the false prophet are not singular individual persons.

You have to be kidding me. First of all, you are the one calling the beast "the beast-king", not me. But, you not being aware that there are people who do not see the beast and false prophet (second beast) as being individuals is just unbelievable to me. I don't know what the reason is for your ignorance about what others believe, but there are MANY Christians like me who do not see the beast and false prophet as being individuals. How can you not know this?

 

[keras]

The woman throughout Revelation 12 is the nation of Israel.

This statement is untrue.

The Revelation 12 Prophecy describes a woman, a child, and a dragon. A superficial reading of the text instantly brings to mind Mary, Jesus, and Satan, who are certainly significant, prophetic types, but there is more to it than that.

The sign represents these individuals in a historical context, but also as larger, corporate entities. Biblical scholars most often understand the woman to represent Mary as an individual and corporately: as the true Christian Israelites of God.

Likewise, the dragon clearly represents Satan as an individual and also the entire world system opposed to God. However, many people see that the male child is a symbol of Christ, they've missed the pattern. Just as the woman and dragon have corporate meanings, the male child does, too - He is Jesus and the collective body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:12-13

The Jewish people and the current State of Israel have nothing to do with Revelation 12.

 

[Douggg]

First of all, you are the one calling the beast "the beast-king", not me

Right. I take that from Revelation 17:10-11. The beast will be the eighth king.

Revelation 17:
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

[Douggg]

The Jewish people and the current State of Israel have nothing to do with Revelation 12.

How many of those "biblical scholars" you referred to believe that the current nation of Israel will be depopulated by a solar event and replaced by Christians from all around the world migrating to there to create a new nation called "Beulah" ?

keras, you are the only person I have ever heard making such a claim.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Right. I take that from Revelation 17:10-11. The beast will be the eighth king.

Revelation 17:
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

It says there are seven mountains, which symbolically reference kingdoms. The heads of prophetic beasts refer to kingdoms and their kings. That's why it talks about prophetic beasts themselves as both kingdoms and kings. Obviously, there are no kingdoms without kings and no kings without kingdoms.

Daniel 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Why is that the only thing you quoted from my post? Please explain how you forgot that I'm an Amillennialist, Douggg. It makes me wonder if you remember anything we discuss. If you don't, am I just wasting my time talking to you since you don't remember what I tell you, anyway?

 

[Douggg]

Why is that the only thing you quoted from my post? Please explain how you forgot that I'm an Amillennialist, Douggg. It makes me wonder if you remember anything we discuss. If you don't, am I just wasting my time talking to you since you don't remember what I tell you, anyway?

You've gone from LOL to boo-hoo-hoo, the world doesn't circle around me.

Just address the topics being discussion and keep the drama to yourself.

 

[keras]

How many of those "biblical scholars" you referred to believe that the current nation of Israel will be depopulated by a solar event and replaced by Christians from all around the world migrating to there to create a new nation called "Beulah" ?

I don't know, but that scenario is clearly stated and confirmed by many scriptures.

In the perfectly clear parable of the landowner, in Matthew 21:33-46, paralleled by Isaiah 5:1-7, Jesus prophesied that the Jews, as a nation, were going to be replaced by something new; faithful Christians who do what they can to spread the Gospel and who fulfill their appointed tasks.
"He will bring those wretches to a wretched end" Matthew 21:41, did happen to those Jews in Jerusalem then, in 70 AD.

Now the Jewish nation are back, but still rejecting Jesus and they face the third swing of the Sword, Ezekiel 21:14, their final judgement, Isaiah 6:11-13, and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27
1 Peter 2:7-10 So for you who have faith, the Cornerstone [Jesus] is of great value, but for the faithless it is a stone they trip over. They trip and fall because they refuse to believe the Word and this is the fate appointed for them.

The fate appointed for them:
Jeremiah 12:14 has the clearest prophecy of God’s intentions for the apostate Jewish State of Israel.: …I shall uproot the evil neighbors from My Land and also Judah as well. But if they learn the ways of My [Christian] people, then; their families can join My people there. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Romans 9:27 A Jewish remnant, the Holy seed; Isaiah 6:13, must be Christians; will be allowed back, to join with their brethren.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You've gone from LOL to boo-hoo-hoo, the world doesn't circle around me.

Just address the topics being discussion and keep the drama to yourself.

LOL. You are a funny guy, Douggg. I will say whatever I want to say. I'm not the one making a fool of myself asking someone questions about what they believe even after having talked to them already many times. Why can't you admit that you have some kind of memory problem? How can you not know what people believe that you've talked to many times?

 

[Douggg]

The fate appointed for them:
Jeremiah 12:14 has the clearest prophecy of God’s intentions for the apostate Jewish State of Israel.: …I shall uproot the evil neighbors from My Land and also Judah as well. But if they learn the ways of My [Christian] people, then; their families can join My people there.

keras, Jeremiah was addressing the kingdom of Judah at the time of Jeremiah when Baal worship was going on. That if they did not change their ways, the Jews would be uprooted - which did happen as they went into Babylonian captivity.

 

[Douggg]

. Why can't you admit that you have some kind of memory problem? How can you not know what people believe that you've talked to many times?

I did remember that you did not believe that there is gong to be a physical temple built that the Antichrist desecrates, right ?

 

[keras]

keras, Jeremiah was addressing the kingdom of Judah at the time of Jeremiah when Baal worship was going on. That if they did not change their ways, the Jews would be uprooted - which did happen as they when into Babylonian captivity.

This rather foolish and superficial explanation, simply has no parallel with what is Prophesied to happen for a third time to the House of Judah.

The Dispensational belief of a general Jewish redemption, is never said to happen in the Bible. It is a lie, built on the 'rapture to heaven' lie.

 

[Douggg]

This rather foolish and superficial explanation, simply has no parallel with what is Prophesied to happen for a third time to the House of Judah.

keras, where in Jeremiah 12 are you reading "for a third time" ? What verse ?

 

[keras]

keras, where in Jeremiah 12 are you reading "for a third time" ? What verse ?

Ezekiel 21:14:- Swing the sword three times, terrible will be the slaughter:

Ezekiel 21:1-7 This is the Word of the Lord: Face toward Jerusalem and prophesy against the Land of Israel. Say to that Land: I am against you, I shall draw My sword and make away with both righteous and wicked among you. I intend to destroy both good and evil people, from the Negev, [Southern Israel] Northward, all will know that it is the Lord who has acted. All courage will fail on that Day, it is coming, it will surely take place.
This will be the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. There has not been any previous event, as described, in Israel. Ezekiel 20:47-48, Isaiah 22:1-14, Jeremiah 21:14, Amos 2:4-5

‘The righteous and wicked alike will be killed’. Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 2:4-5
It will surely happen: the next prophesied event, which will clear the entire Middle East, thus enabling His people, the true Christian Israelites of God, to gather in and live in all of the holy Land. Psalms 83, Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 2:12-22, Joel 2:1-11.

Ezekiel 21:8-13 Prophesy: A sword is sharpened and polished, ready to kill. Should we respect the sceptre of Judah? No, the sword despises it. The sword of destruction is ready for the hand of the slaughterer. Cry aloud and lament, for testing will surely come upon My people and on all Israel’s leaders who are given over to be slain with My people. Mourn and wail, for what if the sceptre of Judah does not continue?

The people currently occupying all of the Holy Land will be killed or displaced.
Lament, for My people [Judah] too, will be slain. Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 16:35-41, Isaiah 22:1-14

Ezekiel 21:14-17 Prophesy: Strike your hands together, swing the sword three times. It is the instrument of slaughter, whirling around. Their courage will fail and many will stumble and fall. Lightning flashes left and right – blocking all escape routes, terrible will be the slaughter. Then, I too, will strike My hands together, My wrath will subside. I, the Lord have spoken.

“Swing the sword three times” Refers to the punishment and dispersions of Judah: 1/ Babylon. 2/ Rome. 3/ to come. Zechariah 13:7-9, Jeremiah 19:11, Matthew 21:41, Luke 19:27.
Is the third ‘swing of the sword’, the Holocaust? No, because that was just the worst of many pogroms and massacres of the Jews since 70 AD.

Ezekiel 21:18-24 This is a fulfilled prophecy of how God led Babylon to attack and destroy Jerusalem. The House of Judah were taken into captivity in 586 BCE, because of their sins. 2 Kings 23:27.
The Jews came back after 70 years, but only to be conquered and dispersed again by Rome in 70-135 AD. Now they remain in apostasy and the Lord Himself will administer their final punishment.

 

[Douggg]

Ezekiel 21:14:- Swing the sword three times, terrible will be the slaughter:

Ezekiel 21:1-7 This is the Word of the Lord: Face toward Jerusalem and prophesy against the Land of Israel. Say to that Land: I am against you, I shall draw My sword and make away with both righteous and wicked among you. I intend to destroy both good and evil people, from the Negev, [Southern Israel] Northward, all will know that it is the Lord who has acted. All courage will fail on that Day, it is coming, it will surely take place.
This will be the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. There has not been any previous event, as described, in Israel. Ezekiel 20:47-48, Isaiah 22:1-14, Jeremiah 21:14, Amos 2:4-5

‘The righteous and wicked alike will be killed’. Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 2:4-5
It will surely happen: the next prophesied event, which will clear the entire Middle East, thus enabling His people, the true Christian Israelites of God, to gather in and live in all of the holy Land. Psalms 83, Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 2:12-22, Joel 2:1-11.

Ezekiel 21:8-13 Prophesy: A sword is sharpened and polished, ready to kill. Should we respect the sceptre of Judah? No, the sword despises it. The sword of destruction is ready for the hand of the slaughterer. Cry aloud and lament, for testing will surely come upon My people and on all Israel’s leaders who are given over to be slain with My people. Mourn and wail, for what if the sceptre of Judah does not continue?

The people currently occupying all of the Holy Land will be killed or displaced.
Lament, for My people [Judah] too, will be slain. Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 16:35-41, Isaiah 22:1-14

Ezekiel 21:14-17 Prophesy: Strike your hands together, swing the sword three times. It is the instrument of slaughter, whirling around. Their courage will fail and many will stumble and fall. Lightning flashes left and right – blocking all escape routes, terrible will be the slaughter. Then, I too, will strike My hands together, My wrath will subside. I, the Lord have spoken.

“Swing the sword three times” Refers to the punishment and dispersions of Judah: 1/ Babylon. 2/ Rome. 3/ to come. Zechariah 13:7-9, Jeremiah 19:11, Matthew 21:41, Luke 19:27.
Is the third ‘swing of the sword’, the Holocaust? No, because that was just the worst of many pogroms and massacres of the Jews since 70 AD.

Ezekiel 21:18-24 This is a fulfilled prophecy of how God led Babylon to attack and destroy Jerusalem. The House of Judah were taken into captivity in 586 BCE, because of their sins. 2 Kings 23:27.
The Jews came back after 70 years, but only to be conquered and dispersed again by Rome in 70-135 AD. Now they remain in apostasy and the Lord Himself will administer their final punishment.

keras, a third time is not in the text itself of Jeremiah 12.

 

[keras]

keras, a third time is not in the text itself of Jeremiah 12.

Did I say it was?
Jeremiah 12:14 confirms the virtual demise of Jewish Israel by the Lord Himself. Their third defeat and removal from the Holy Land. Zephaniah 1:18

Until all who have beliefs of a Jewish redemption, get the truth of what will actually happen, then confusion and error is their lot.

 

[Douggg]

Jeremiah 12:14 confirms the virtual demise of Jewish Israel by the Lord Himself.

keras, Jeremiah 12 has to do with the kingdom of Judah in Jeremiah's day. Nothing to do with modern day Israel.

 

[keras]

keras, Jeremiah 12 has to do with the kingdom of Judah in Jeremiah's day. Nothing to do with modern day Israel.

Pure, unsubstantiated opinion.

Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and also I will pluck out the House of Judah as well. After I have removed them, I will return to have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the Way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them.

This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people.

1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5

2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27

3/ My people; the true Israelites- Overcomers for God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Followers of the right Way, Jesus: John 14:6, Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10

The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Zephaniah 14-18, Hosea 4:3, Jeremiah 10:18, excepting a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27

This will allow the gathering and settling of His righteous Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses and display His Light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

 

[Douggg]

Pure, unsubstantiated opinion.

Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and also I will pluck out the House of Judah as well. After I have removed them, I will return to have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the Way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them.

This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people.

1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5

2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27

3/ My people; the true Israelites- Overcomers for God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Followers of the right Way, Jesus: John 14:6, Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10

The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Zephaniah 14-18, Hosea 4:3, Jeremiah 10:18, excepting a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27

This will allow the gathering and settling of His righteous Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses and display His Light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

keras, nothing in Jeremiah 2 says it is about the end times.

 

[keras]

keras, nothing in Jeremiah 2 says it is about the end times.

Nothing in Jeremiah 12 says it is for the ancient times.
But the peoples who refuse to obey Me, I shall utterly destroy. Jeremiah 12:17 When did the Lord do that?

Read and understand Jeremiah 13:1-14........the enormous pride of the Jews, those wicked people who refuse to listen to the Lord......I shall not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. Jeremiah 13:9 & 14 REBible & KJV

The apostate Jews are goneburgers and the idea of them going thru Tribulation, then converting while the Church goes to heaven, is demolished.

 

[Douggg]

Nothing in Jeremiah 12 says it is for the ancient times.
But the peoples who refuse to obey Me, I shall utterly destroy. Jeremiah 12:17 When did the Lord do that?

Read and understand Jeremiah 13:1-14........the enormous pride of the Jews, those wicked people who refuse to listen to the Lord......I shall not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. Jeremiah 13:9 & 14 REBible & KJV

Jeremiah 12-13 is talking about the Jews of Jeremiah's day had gotten in to worshiping other gods, and thus would suffer the consequences.

Jeremiah 13:10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.

They made themselves good for nothing. That generation of Jews ended up going into Babylonian captivity, which lasted 70 years.