Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

[Spiritual Jew]

How does one keep Gods commandments if they lay it aside (delete) as to say, this one is not for me, essentially making themselves their own god, following their own laws.

Why will you not address what I was actually saying? All I was doing was showing what James 2:10 actually means and it says nothing about deleting/removing God's commandments, but rather says that if you break even one of them then you are guilty of breaking them all.

 

[fhansen]

While our righteousness is by faith - pray tell how is it people come to the conclusion we have faith by disregarding everything Jesus taught and lived considering He is who we are to have faith in.

Claiming Jesus taught old covenant and died in old covenant therefore, we do not have to believe or follow His teachings is not a teaching from Scripture Isa 8:20 John 8:45 Mat 4:4

It would be hard for Jesus to be

John 14: 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

If we are to lay aside all of His teachings or pick and choose which teaching apply or don‘t apply to us seems we have made ourself our own god Romans 6:16

According to Scripture we not only need to have the faith in Jesus, we need the faith of Jesus, which means what did Jesus teach and how did He live for our exmaple Rev 14:12 John 15:10 4,5,10 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15

Yes, everything Jesus taught was the gospel, the new covenant-and consistent with Paul. Loves means that I won't murder, won't commit adultery, won't bear false witness, etc, even if I've never heard the law. But we don't return to the law first: obeying the commandments in order to love God and neighbor; rather we love because He empowers us to do as we turn to Him and become His children, and the commandments are obeyed/fulfilled in the process, by that love instead of strictly by a sense of obligation. The obligation to obey the ten commandments is right and good, and so the ancient churches and many newer ones continue to keep them held out in public view-because they serve to remind us when we're failing to love. Anyway, to the extent that we fulfill the ten by fulfilling the greatest, we'd be perfected in love, and nearest to Him. I like the input of Basil of Caesarea here, a 4th century bishop:

“If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.”

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, everything Jesus taught was the gospel, the new covenant-and consistent with Paul. Loves means that I won't murder, won't commit adultery, won't bear false witness

Agreed and it applies to every one of the Ten Commandments of how to love thy neighbor as thyself and how to love God. 1 John 5:2-3

, etc, even if I've never heard the law.

Yes, but Paul made clear why the law is so important because depending on our heart will not always lead to truth Jer 17:9

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

But we don't return to the law first: obeying the commandments in order to love God and neighbor; rather we love because He empowers us to do as we turn to Him and become His children, and the commandments are obeyed/fulfilled in the process, by that love instead of strictly by a sense of obligation. The obligation to obey the ten commandments is right and good, and so the ancient churches and many newer ones continue to keep them held out in public view-because they serve to remind us when we're failing to love. Anyway, to the extent that we fulfill the ten by fulfilling the greatest, we'd be perfected in love, and nearest to Him. I like the input of Basil of Caesarea here, a 4th century bishop:

“If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.”

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17 So I will respectfully disagree that, obeying Him doesn't come first. It seems to me to be in this order:

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

First we have to be willing to submit to God's will through love and than He empowers us with the Holy Spirit which enables us to obey Him. But glad to know we have some common ground.

 

[fhansen]

Yes, but Paul made clear why the law is so important because depending on our heart will not always lead to truth Jer 17:9

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

If we love perfectly we will not need the commandments; there'll be no need for them in heaven, for example. In this life, however, because we're not yet perfected, because we still struggle, we still need them to remind us of our imperfection, as I stated.

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17 So I will respectfully disagree that, obeying Him doesn't come first. It seems to me to be in this order:

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

First we have to be willing to submit to God's will through love and than He empowers us with the Holy Spirit which enables us to obey Him. But glad to know we have some common ground.

It's both/and. If we love Him we will keep His commandments. When we love Him perfectly we won't even need to hear them. IOW, it;s not enough to say, "I'm obedient to the the law therefore I love Jesus." Because we could still be no better off than Paul was In Phil 3:6.

 

[ARBITER01]

We must carefully compare everything with what Jesus actually taught.

It's the same Holy Spirit that wrote the gospels that wrote the book of Hebrews. There is no contradiction. There's only misunderstanding, or worse yet, purposeful misunderstanding based around a personal belief.

We don't pit scripture against scripture. Jesus is not somehow correct and the letters of Paul are wrong. They agree.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If we love perfectly we will not need the commandments; there'll be no need for them in heaven, for example. In this life, however, because we're not yet perfected, because we still struggle, we still need them to remind us of our imperfection, as I stated.

I do not think there will be no need for the commandments, the better way is saying if we are keeping the commandments through love and faith, we are than in harmony with God and His will Psa 40:8 Heb 8:10 and the commandments are not going to be an issue because we are living them in our hearts and minds,

It clearly shows God's law, the Ten Commandments is in God's heavenly Temple Rev 11:19, its what the earthy temple was modeled after Heb 8:1-5 to show us the plan of salvation.

However God promises once He returns and destroys all sin and sinners, there will be no more sin, so everyone will be keeping God's law being in perfect harmony with God's will.

It's both/and. If we love Him we will keep His commandments. When we love Him perfectly we won't even need to hear them. IOW, it;s not enough to say, "I'm obedient to the the law therefore I love Jesus." Because we could still be no better off than Paul was In Phil 3:6.

In this world we need to hear them because too many people depend on their own laws/traditions over obeying the commandments of God, Jesus quoting directly from the Ten Commandments saying when we do that, keep our own law/traditions over God's law, that's not the path back to Him Mat 15:3-14. Its too easy to deceive ourselves so best to let God define what is righteous Psa 119:172 Rom 7:12 instead of us deciding what is wrong or right and obey Him the way He said, because He is God and we are created in His image and God's law is a reflection of His holy character which we are to be like.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It's the same Holy Spirit that wrote the gospels that wrote the book of Hebrews. There is no contradiction. There's only misunderstanding, or worse yet, purposeful misunderstanding based around a personal belief.

We don't pit scripture against scripture. Jesus is not somehow correct and the letters of Paul are wrong. They agree.

Jesus is the way the truth the life John 14:6 Paul's writings came with a possible salvation issue as he is hard to understand that people twist as they do the rest of Scripture 2 Peter 3:15-16. Everything must be in light of what Jesus taught and lived not the other way around. Salvation is through Jesus alone. Paul was a servant of God Titus 1:1, not God a servant to Paul. Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth, not anyone else. Mat 28:18-20

 

[RandyPNW]

The Ten Commandments, which God Himself declared to be His covenant, were not replaced. You are misunderstanding Paul—just as many have done—by placing his words above the words of Jesus and the prophets. But Paul cannot contradict Jesus. If he did, then you must choose whom you will follow.

I'm not disputing that the Ten Commandments, along with the entire Law, was a "covenant." Hebrews calls it the "Old Covenant."

Heb 8.6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

Paul, of course, does not contradict Jesus, although it appears that way to you? Jesus was speaking in the context of the era he was living under at the time. But even then, he was not under the Law himself, as I explained earlier.

But what Jesus said to Israel at that time still required Israel to live under the Old Covenant of Law. Paul, by contrast, spoke of a time when the dividing wall between Israel under the Law and the pagan nations had been broken down. The Law of Moses was no longer in effect for Israel.

This is not a contradiction--rather, it is an explanation. These are two different times, one under the Law of Moses, which became an outmoded covenant, and the other, under the New Covenant of living by Christ alone. I'm sorry you don't understand this. I hope others do.

You quote a single verse to support your view but ignore the rest of the context in Jeremiah 31. Let’s read the full passage:

Yes, we know the passage already. The quote was a reminder. As I said, in the Old Covenant era, such prophecies will not detail the New Covenant because the Law was still being required. The most it said is that this New Covenant will be "different" than the old one. And it will satisfy what failed the nation under the Old Covenant.

The fact Christ became a means of Eternal Life is what distinguished the New Covenant from the Old Covenant. But he was still a mystery at that time.

You say this is a new system with “new commandments,” but God says He will put His Law—the same Law they broke—into their hearts. The covenant didn’t change; the location of the Law changed. It moved from stone tables to the heart. God never said, “I will replace My Law,” but “I will write it inside of them.” That’s what makes it “new”—it is inward, spiritual, living.

I already addressed this. Jer 31 says the opposite of what you're asserting. I need not address it again. It was definitely to be a "change"--a *new* covenant.

You also seem to ignore Jesus' own words:

Heaven and earth have not passed away. That means the Law still stands—especially the Ten Commandments, which were written by God’s own finger and placed inside the Ark of the Covenant, separate from the other laws Moses wrote in a book. Jesus didn’t teach us to abandon these commandments; He called us to live them in their fullness, in spirit and truth.

The continuity of the universe is not the basis for a continuation of the Law. Jesus indicated that every law within the Law of Moses had to be kept before he "fulfilled it" in himself. And he had to "fulfill it" before the universe could pass away.

It was his fulfillment that ended the need for Israel to keep the Law because indeed when they kept it the apparent lesson is that Israel was not qualified to obtain Eternal Life. Jesus had to fulfill the Law to enable them to inherit the earth. That's when the universe could be changed and inherited forever.

Both Israel's observance of the Law and its fulfillment in Jesus had to be completed before the universe passes away because Jesus was the only means by which the earth could be inherited by Man. God did not want the universe passing away before men were enabled to inherit it!

When Jesus died, the veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom. This veil separated the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place, where God’s presence was. Only the high priest could enter, once a year, with blood for sin. But when Jesus gave His life, the barrier was removed by God Himself. This means that through Jesus, access to the Father is now open—but only for those who believe and obey.

Yes.

Jesus didn’t say, “My new commandments,” or “Moses’ commandments are gone.” He pointed always to His Father's will. And the Father already told us what His covenant is: the Ten Commandments.

Again, Jesus lived under the "old" era, when the Law was still in effect. He certainly wouldn't be advocating for disobedience to the Law while it was still in effect! The Covenant is *not* just the 10 Commandments--it is the entire system or agreement that God made with Israel, including all 613 requirements.

The New Covenant does not cancel the Ten Commandments—it makes them living and personal by writing them into the hearts of those who follow Christ. Those who love God and walk in His Spirit do not ignore His Law—they delight in it, just as Jesus did.

I've said that the New Covenant and the Old Covenant are not distinguished by the New being "of the heart." All of God's covenants and laws are "of the heart." The big difference in the new is that the *record* of failure, contained in the Law, has been ripped up. Now, we live by the heart under a Law without the record of our failure.

The Apostle John makes a clear distinction between old and new commandments, and treats them both as "of the heart," but even moreso as leading only to following Jesus' commandments and likeness--not the Law of ordinances, or Temple Law. This ddidn't mean the New Covenant is "of the heart" and the Old Covenant was not of the heart. John simply said they were both moral and love in God, both leading to Christ alone.

Please don’t be quick to dismiss the foundation of God’s eternal covenant. The same Law that reveals sin is also the one that points us to the Savior. Jesus fulfilled it, not to erase it, but to empower us to live it—through Him.

The Old Covenant, or the Law, is a record of failure. We must see it as "nailed to the Cross." We live by the same principles of love and holiness. But they are now to be distinguished as something lived in Christ alone, and not by a system or record of 613 requirements that were insufficient for Israel to obtain Eternal Life.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Jesus is the way the truth the life John 14:6 Paul's writings came with a possible salvation issue as he is hard to understand that people twist as they do the rest of Scripture 2 Peter 3:15-16. Everything must be in light of what Jesus taught and lived not the other way around. Salvation is through Jesus alone. Paul was a servant of God Titus 1:1, not God a servant to Paul. Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth, not anyone else. Mat 28:18-20

I don't think there is a disconnect between Paul and Jesus. Paul never said "we should not keep the Law", He said:

Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!

Paul just made the point that we have all broken the Law, and because of that fact can not be justified by the Law. Christ's sacrifice was necessary because all people have and will stumble.

Gal 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

But our goal should be to obey God.

 

[Sam91]

The Old Covenant, or the Law, is a record of failure.

The writer of Psalm 119 delighted in it. It taught Israel what sin was and of the need for the cleansing of sin. It's more than that and despite the new covenant I'm glad we still have a record of it as it still helps to show us what is required even if it is written in our hearts and revealed by the Holy Spirit. It also helps one to understand Christ as our redeemer.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I don't think there is a disconnect between Paul and Jesus. Paul never said "we should not keep the Law", He said:

Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!

This is exactly my point, I do not believe there is a disconnect either, but we have a warning about Paul writings in the inspired Scripture that wouldn't be there is people didn't misunderstand or worse with Paul's writings. Many use Paul's writings to promote lawlessness, but its just out of context. My point is all Scripture should be reconciled by what Jesus taught, not Jesus teachings to anyone else. Jesus is the way, the truth, the life, so if Jesus taught one thing and someone perceives Paul's writings trumps what Jesus taught chances are 2 Peter 3:16 applies to them.

Paul just made the point that we have all broken the Law, and because of that fact can not be justified by the Law. Christ's sacrifice was necessary because all people have and will stumble.

Gal 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

But our goal should be to obey God.

I agree for the most part, but I believe through the power of the Holy Spirit we can be re-Created in the image of God and be able to overcome. Its a promise of Scripture Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14 Revelation speaks of this at least seven times.

 

[RandyPNW]

The writer of Psalm 119 delighted in it. It taught Israel what sin was and of the need for the cleansing of sin. It's more than that and despite the new covenant I'm glad we still have a record of it as it still helps to show us what is required even if it is written in our hearts and revealed by the Holy Spirit. It also helps one to understand Christ as our redeemer.

I agree. Some people create a dichotomy between the Law and Grace to such a degree that the Law looks like the work of an Evil God. No, God created a record of helplessness under the Law with the understanding that He was going to fix it. In the meantime He privileged Israel with being His people, as long as they continued to properly represent Him in their obedience to those commands.

Thank you for giving this some balance! Incidentally, the difference between Law and Grace does not indicate that Grace is Antinomianism. Both systems properly required obedience, and both provided blessings with God. The major difference with Grace is that in Christ we've received the means to Eternal Life.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I'm not disputing that the Ten Commandments, along with the entire Law, was a "covenant." Hebrews calls it the "Old Covenant."

Yes you are disputing scripture, The mosaic law and the ten commandments that GOD called the Covenant are different and do not have the same purpose see my post if you have not already;

The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

The Bible does present the Ten Commandments as the covenant itself. In Exodus 34:28, it is written: "So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments." "So He declared to...

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Heb 8.6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

yes true, Jesus came and explain how to understand the commandments, the better promise is thet the believers would have the Covenant laws( the ten commandments) inscribed in theit hearts

Paul, of course, does not contradict Jesus, although it appears that way to you? Jesus was speaking in the context of the era he was living under at the time. But even then, he was not under the Law himself, as I explained earlier.

But what Jesus said to Israel at that time still required Israel to live under the Old Covenant of Law. Paul, by contrast, spoke of a time when the dividing wall between Israel under the Law and the pagan nations had been broken down. The Law of Moses was no longer in effect for Israel.

This is frankly ridiculous and a false assumption, It is Christ who fulfilled jeremiah 31 and announced it to the 12, ( read about the last supper) he instituted the New covenant and sealed with his own blood on the cross for us all , Paul has NOTHING to do with this! Peter not Paul was first chosen BY God to go to the gentiles.

Please go and read your bible again this is shocking.

This is not a contradiction--rather, it is an explanation. These are two different times, one under the Law of Moses, which became an outmoded covenant, and the other, under the New Covenant of living by Christ alone. I'm sorry you don't understand this. I hope others do.

ALL that Jesus did and said was in preparation for the establishment of the New covenant and he did.

Yes, we know the passage already. The quote was a reminder. As I said, in the Old Covenant era, such prophecies will not detail the New Covenant because the Law was still being required. The most it said is that this New Covenant will be "different" than the old one. And it will satisfy what failed the nation under the Old Covenant.

The fact Christ became a means of Eternal Life is what distinguished the New Covenant from the Old Covenant. But he was still a mystery at that time.

I already addressed this. Jer 31 says the opposite of what you're asserting. I need not address it again. It was definitely to be a "change"--a *new* covenant.

A new covenant what is it then?, I know it is the ten Commandments that will be put in our hearts as written in scripture now what will you say it is? I am waiting for your answer! Please define the laws within the New Covenant that are placed in our hearts

The continuity of the universe is not the basis for a continuation of the Law. Jesus indicated that every law within the Law of Moses had to be kept before he "fulfilled it" in himself. And he had to "fulfill it" before the universe could pass away.

OH boy, back to square one.

It was his fulfillment that ended the need for Israel to keep the Law because indeed when they kept it the apparent lesson is that Israel was not qualified to obtain Eternal Life. Jesus had to fulfill the Law to enable them to inherit the earth. That's when the universe could be changed and inherited forever.

Both Israel's observance of the Law and its fulfillment in Jesus had to be completed before the universe passes away because Jesus was the only means by which the earth could be inherited by Man. God did not want the universe passing away before men were enabled to inherit it!

Yes.

Again, Jesus lived under the "old" era, when the Law was still in effect. He certainly wouldn't be advocating for disobedience to the Law while it was still in effect! The Covenant is *not* just the 10 Commandments--it is the entire system or agreement that God made with Israel, including all 613 requirements.

I've said that the New Covenant and the Old Covenant are not distinguished by the New being "of the heart." All of God's covenants and laws are "of the heart." The big difference in the new is that the *record* of failure, contained in the Law, has been ripped up. Now, we live by the heart under a Law without the record of our failure.

The Apostle John makes a clear distinction between old and new commandments, and treats them both as "of the heart," but even moreso as leading only to following Jesus' commandments and likeness--not the Law of ordinances, or Temple Law. This ddidn't mean the New Covenant is "of the heart" and the Old Covenant was not of the heart. John simply said they were both moral and love in God, both leading to Christ alone.

The Old Covenant, or the Law, is a record of failure. We must see it as "nailed to the Cross." We live by the same principles of love and holiness. But they are now to be distinguished as something lived in Christ alone, and not by a system or record of 613 requirements that were insufficient for Israel to obtain Eternal Life.

Sorry but I totally disagree with most of what you wrote. Our views are irrelevant, Scripture tells us the truth of it all and NO the old covenant that is the same as the New covenant but internalized in out hearts is not a failure! The failure resides in the hardness of men's hearts, their unbelief and disobedience!

The words of Christ are Clear and are impossible to misunderstand.;

If ye love me, keep my commandments. (john 14:15)
if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.(mat 19:17)
Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near. (Mat 3:2, Mat 4:17)

 

[BobRyan]

Does that include the ceremonial laws of Leviticus?

Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself - is affirmed all through the NT - but that is not ceremonial

Heb 10:4-11 says the laws regarding animal sacrifice and offerings ended at the cross.

And in the New Covenant, he who loves has thereby fulfilled the law (Ro 13:10).

Matt 22 -
Love God with all your heart - Deut 6:5
Love your neighbor as yourself - Lev 19:18

Is the foundation of the canon of scripture "All the L:aw and the Prophets" according to Christ.

Which of the above are not fulfilled in loving?

"Therefore, love is the fulfillment of the law." (Ro 13:10).

Jesus has given us a New Covenant (Lk 22:20) with a new law (Jn 13:34) requiring much more of us that just "do no harm."

The same "Love your neighbor as yourself" that you see in Lev 19:18 and in Matt 22 - is still in Rom 13 and James 2.

The point remains.

 

[Sam91]

Our covenant goes much further than the ten commandments. Jesus explained what loving their neighbour was. He told us to sin no more and if we loved God we'd obey Him. The rest of the New Testament set down how we live this out empowered by the Spirit.

It's after 2.30am for me so I won't find the verses as they're well known. But 1 Peter explains how we are to live above reproach. Ephesians 4:29-30ish tells us to get rid of all bitterness rage and anger... forgiving each other (which Jesus emphasised too). Kindness is emphasised there as well as in 1 Corinthians 13. That also tells us to be patient, not angry, rude or boastful. Not to delight in evil but to rejoice in the truth. Then Paul talked about the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians which are to grow in us.

Personally, I regard a lot of those as qualities of a believer rather than commandments. The ten commandments and things from the New Testament such as blessing those that persecute you are much easier than displaying all the qualities I mentioned above all of the time. That is only really possible for me when trusting wholely in God and living in His strength. It's those qualities that form the main reasons for my repentance eg being prideful and gotten not so kind in my speech, not helping someone and being convicted of it in my heart. I think this is the New Covenant talked about in Jeremiah lived out in practice.

However, I don't think the Ten Commandments are redundant. I have them on my fridge (since my child brought them home after learning about Judaism at school).

Scripture as a whole still needs to be obeyed. I think the only parts we can disregard scripturally is circumcision because it's our hearts now circumcised and some parts of the Mosaic law such as sacrifices/sin offerings because Jesus' sacrifice replaced/fulfilled that.

"He has told you, O man, what is good;
and what does the LORD require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God?" Micah 6:8

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why will you not address what I was actually saying? All I was doing was showing what James 2:10 actually means and it says nothing about deleting/removing God's commandments, but rather says that if you break even one of them then you are guilty of breaking them all.

I thought I did, if one deletes a commandment like remove it from God’s law laying it aside meaning it’s not for me, how is one keeping it. So it seems to me it applies to James 2:11-12 breaking one of the commandments we break them all which includes deleting any of them. God numbered the commandments “Ten” Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 by design because God knew man would try to tinker with them and turn them into an unbiblical number. I see what you’re saying and agree with you, but I think the other poster can make a case its also applies to deleting one of the commandments because in essence its the same result, not keeping the commandment.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

@Ain't Zwinglian

Where ya' been?

See PM

 

[RandyPNW]

Yes you are disputing scripture, The mosaic law and the ten commandments that GOD called the Covenant are different and do not have the same purpose see my post if you have not already;

The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

The Bible does present the Ten Commandments as the covenant itself. In Exodus 34:28, it is written: "So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments." "So He declared to...

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We've had this discussion before. And I showed you my evidence for seeing the Covenant as not just the 10 Commandments, but the entire Law given at Horeb.

Exo 19.5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”
7 So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all the words the Lord had commanded him to speak. 8 The people all responded together, “We will do everything the Lord has said.” So Moses brought their answer back to the Lord.

Please note that the Covenant of the 10 Commandments was only part of what was required under that Covenant. They were required to "obey God fully," which included the entire Law--all 613 requirements. They were required to do "everything the Lord has said," which included the entire Law.

Far from saying the Covenant is strictly the 10 Commandments, its conditions included the keeping of the entire Law. It included all that the Lord commanded Israel at Horeb.

Exo 24.1 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to the Lord, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to worship at a distance, 2 but Moses alone is to approach the Lord; the others must not come near. And the people may not come up with him.”
3 When Moses went and told the people all the Lord’s words and laws, they responded with one voice, “Everything the Lord has said we will do.” 4 Moses then wrote down everything the Lord had said.
He got up early the next morning and built an altar at the foot of the mountain and set up twelve stone pillars representing the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 Then he sent young Israelite men, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as fellowship offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and the other half he splashed against the altar. 7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people. They responded, “We will do everything the Lord has said; we will obey.”

Deut 4.13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets. 14 And the Lord directed me at that time to teach you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.

Deut 5.1 Moses summoned all Israel and said: Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb.

Deut 29.1 These are the terms of the covenant the Lord commanded Moses to make with the Israelites in Moab, in addition to the covenant he had made with them at Horeb.

As you can see, the Covenant was inclusive of several things, the 10 Commandments, the full Law, or the Book of the Law, and the additions to the Covenant. It was in its entirety what Hebrews called "the Old Covenant." If we cannot agree on this, it doesn't surprise me that we disagree on so much! But defining the 10 Commandments as separate from the Law and as an Eternal Covenant is not what the NT Scriptures teach.

The NT Scriptures teach that when the Law of God is impressed upon the heart through Christ, it is a liberation from the record of Law that exposed Israel as sinners and made them ineligible for Salvation. Their only hope under the Law was to please God through obedience until Christ came and fulfilled the Law through his own perfection.

As such, the Covenant of Christ did install the Law of God on our hearts, but it was an entirely different Law and an entirely different Covenant because requirements for Salvation were not written down in the form of condemnation, but Christ fulfilled them . The 10 Commandments were fulfilled in Christ, whose perfection kept all of the Laws that pertained to our justification. Moral Law is to be kept through abiding in him. That is as opposed to the Temporal Laws that became unnecessary once Christ had justified us by his own blood.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

We've had this discussion before. And I showed you my evidence for seeing the Covenant as not just the 10 Commandments, but the entire Law given at Horeb.

Exo 19.5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”
7 So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all the words the Lord had commanded him to speak. 8 The people all responded together, “We will do everything the Lord has said.” So Moses brought their answer back to the Lord.

Please note that the Covenant of the 10 Commandments was only part of what was required under that Covenant. They were required to "obey God fully," which included the entire Law--all 613 requirements. They were required to do "everything the Lord has said," which included the entire Law.

Far from saying the Covenant is strictly the 10 Commandments, its conditions included the keeping of the entire Law. It included all that the Lord commanded Israel at Horeb.

Exo 24.1 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to the Lord, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to worship at a distance, 2 but Moses alone is to approach the Lord; the others must not come near. And the people may not come up with him.”
3 When Moses went and told the people all the Lord’s words and laws, they responded with one voice, “Everything the Lord has said we will do.” 4 Moses then wrote down everything the Lord had said.
He got up early the next morning and built an altar at the foot of the mountain and set up twelve stone pillars representing the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 Then he sent young Israelite men, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as fellowship offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and the other half he splashed against the altar. 7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people. They responded, “We will do everything the Lord has said; we will obey.”

Deut 4.13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets. 14 And the Lord directed me at that time to teach you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.

Deut 5.1 Moses summoned all Israel and said: Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb.

Deut 29.1 These are the terms of the covenant the Lord commanded Moses to make with the Israelites in Moab, in addition to the covenant he had made with them at Horeb.

As you can see, the Covenant was inclusive of several things, the 10 Commandments, the full Law, or the Book of the Law, and the additions to the Covenant. It was in its entirety what Hebrews called "the Old Covenant." If we cannot agree on this, it doesn't surprise me that we disagree on so much! But defining the 10 Commandments as separate from the Law and as an Eternal Covenant is not what the NT Scriptures teach.

The NT Scriptures teach that when the Law of God is impressed upon the heart through Christ, it is a liberation from the record of Law that exposed Israel as sinners and made them ineligible for Salvation. Their only hope under the Law was to please God through obedience until Christ came and fulfilled the Law through his own perfection.

As such, the Covenant of Christ did install the Law of God on our hearts, but it was an entirely different Law and an entirely different Covenant because requirements for Salvation were not written down in the form of condemnation, but Christ fulfilled them . The 10 Commandments were fulfilled in Christ, whose perfection kept all of the Laws that pertained to our justification. Moral Law is to be kept through abiding in him. That is as opposed to the Temporal Laws that became unnecessary once Christ had justified us by his own blood.

I am talking of the ten commandments here in this thread, not the law of Moses and again they are not the same. The Ark of the Covenant contains the tables of stone, on it, the ten commandments ( THE COVENANT) written by the finger of God, OUTSIDE of the ARK of the Covenant, the law of Moses that were written separately by Moses hand. I am not a Jewish teaching the so called 613 commandments far from it, are you Jewish?, what are you doing here, confusing people even more than you are with the 613?

So , still no answer as to the new covenant and what it contains, you spent time in a diversion tactics using the 613 to avoid responding. You speak of an entirely different Law of God and a bit later of " Moral law to be kept through abiding in him" can you define clearly the Laws you speak about that are put in out hearts? Will you answer clearly for once?

If you do not know what these Laws are how can you follow them? Jesus gave us a clear answer of what to to to have eternal life.

I am still waiting for a clear list of these Laws of GOD and Moral laws you mentioned.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I agree for the most part, but I believe through the power of the Holy Spirit we can be re-Created in the image of God and be able to overcome. Its a promise of Scripture Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14 Revelation speaks of this at least seven times.

It is true that when a person is born again, God fills us with His Spirit, which keeps us from sin.

1Jn 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.​

However, people, even Born-again Christians, can fall into sin if they resist the prompting of the Holy Spirit. The bible tells us:

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.​

The whole of scripture tells us that "we should not sin", but "if we do, God will forgive", but He will move us away from sin.

Jas 5:19-20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.​

If a person has fallen into sin or a time of unbelief, there is still hope, for the cross covers our whole lifetime of sins:

Heb 9:27-28 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.​

Church leaders were told to pray for the restoration of those who had wandered into sin. Only if a person died in sin, could they no longer pray:

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.​

The fact is if someone has got messed up in sin, God will try to restore them. Not allowing the sin, but cleansing from it.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.​