What is a Sin?

[Wandering Soul]

What is a sin and what makes a particular action sinful?

 

[ArmyMatt]

sin means to miss the mark. so anything we do that falls short of the mark (God) is sinful.

 

[Wandering Soul]

sin means to miss the mark. so anything we do that falls short of the mark (God) is sinful.

From a certain point of view, isn't that a hallmark of everything that we do? It creates a very ambiguous line in the sand, which is fine.
For example, I have seen a priest say that since the body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, it is sinful to poison it through, say, the smoking of a cigar. And yet, there is a moderationist view held by the same priest regarding alcohol, a well known poison to the same body.

Is there a certain measure of flexibility? I ask based on contextual readings from say Romans 14:5 and say James 4:17. One of the inferences that could be drawn from these texts is that a man must decide for himself and be convinced of the rightness or wrongness of a thing. I grant that this has some drawbacks. There is no prescribed list of laws that I am familiar with in Christianity that the Hebrews had in Leviticus. This forces each of us to use a certain level of discernment and reason in our conduct.

Thank you for helping me understand the Orthodox understanding of sin. I do not wish to hyper-fixate on what is or is not sinful, but I do not wish to diminish it, either.

 

[ArmyMatt]

From a certain point of view, isn't that a hallmark of everything that we do? It creates a very ambiguous line in the sand, which is fine.
For example, I have seen a priest say that since the body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, it is sinful to poison it through, say, the smoking of a cigar. And yet, there is a moderationist view held by the same priest regarding alcohol, a well known poison to the same body.

Is there a certain measure of flexibility? I ask based on contextual readings from say Romans 14:5 and say James 4:17. One of the inferences that could be drawn from these texts is that a man must decide for himself and be convinced of the rightness or wrongness of a thing. I grant that this has some drawbacks. There is no prescribed list of laws that I am familiar with in Christianity that the Hebrews had in Leviticus. This forces each of us to use a certain level of discernment and reason in our conduct.

Thank you for helping me understand the Orthodox understanding of sin. I do not wish to hyper-fixate on what is or is not sinful, but I do not wish to diminish it, either.

think of it holistically, like when you go to a doctor. there might be something unhealthy that doesn’t affect you personally but still is unhealthy (like smoking when it came to comedian George Burns).

 

[Lukaris]

I think the sin of Cain often gets lost in the shuffle in our overall understanding of sin. Clearly the disobedience of Adam & Eve is where sin originated but I tend to believe depravity originated with Cain ( although we are not totally depraved).

1 John 3:11-12

Genesis 4:1-16

 

[timothyu]

I tend to believe depravity originated with Cain ( although we are not totally depraved).

It was still putting his will first, the original sin

 

[Lukaris]

It was still putting his will first, the original sin

In Orthodoxy we agree with original sin in Adam. We do not believe that others are born guilty of Adam’s sin to a point of depravity. We are sinners ( Romans 3:21-26) but sins vary from person to person. We believe Romans 1 & 3 teach us of of our overall fallen state whereas Romans 2 makes the case for our accountability to know right from wrong. Everyone is in danger of judgment without grace and should be warned ( Colossians 1:28) whereas St. Paul tells us that there are those the Lord knows but we do not ( Romans 2:6-16).

Our understanding of the problems of our works in this life are more in line with Ezekiel 18:1-32 as a further explanation of Isaiah 64:1-12. Ezekiel, of course, prophesied later than Isaiah.

 

[timothyu]

but sins vary from person to person

I understand but the degree of sin is not the same as sin simply being putting our will ahead of the will of God. Original wins out over variances.

 

[Wandering Soul]

Does Orthodoxy share the Catholic belief in venial and mortal sins or is there no distinction? And what of hell? Is it real? Is it fire and torment? Or is it more annihilationistic?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Does Orthodoxy share the Catholic belief in venial and mortal sins or is there no distinction?

the only mortal sins are the ones we refuse to repent of, whatever they may be.

And what of hell? Is it real? Is it fire and torment?

hell is God’s inescapable presence in the face of the eternally unrepentant sinner. he will experience God’s love as wrath and judgment, since that’s what love is when confronting sin. God’s presence in Scripture is often described as fire (Burning Bush, Pillar of Fire, Eyes of Fire, etc).

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread is back open. Please keep in mind what forum this is in.​

 

[Soyeong]

What is a sin and what makes a particular action sinful?

God’s way is the way to know Him and Jesus by directing our lives towards being in His likeness by being a doer of His character traits, which is the way to the Tree of Life (John 17:3), and sin is what is contrary to God’s way, which is the way to the Tree of Knowledge. Sin is also the transgression of God’s law because it was given to teach us how to walk in God’s way (1 Kings 2:1-3). The way to believe in God is by directing our lives towards walking in His way, such as by being in His likeness through being doer of good works in obedience to His law we are testifying about His goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him, and by testifying about His goodness we are also expressing the belief that He is good, or in other words we are believing in Him, which is why sin is also what is not of faith (Romans 14:23).

 

[Wandering Soul]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread is back open. Please keep in mind what forum this is in.​

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

the only mortal sins are the ones we refuse to repent of, whatever they may be.


hell is God’s inescapable presence in the face of the eternally unrepentant sinner. he will experience God’s love as wrath and judgment, since that’s what love is when confronting sin. God’s presence in Scripture is often described as fire (Burning Bush, Pillar of Fire, Eyes of Fire, etc).

I really struggle with the idea of equating wrath with justice. If I were to exercise wrath, it would surely be the most awful expression of my will that I could muster. The thought of it nauseates me.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I really struggle with the idea of equating wrath with justice. If I were to exercise wrath, it would surely be the most awful expression of my will that I could muster. The thought of it nauseates me.

wrath isn’t rage, wrath is love encountering sin. it’s no picnic.

 

[Wandering Soul]

"And as a spark falling upon a wide ocean quickly disappears, so whatever events happen to the man who fears God, these falling as it were upon an immense ocean of joy, are quenched and destroyed!" - St. John Chrysostom.

While researching a bit about sin, I came across this in one of his homilies. Thought it was worth meditating on.

 

[ArmyMatt]

There is a Chinese proverb, “Dynasty can be changed, but human nature is immovable.” It means that a dynasty that reigns over a vast kingdom can be replaced, but the roots of human nature cannot be moved or changed. This is an implicit acknowledgment that sin is part of our nature.

this is not what we believe at all. please know that this is not the place to teach stuff contrary to the Orthodox faith.

 

[Wandering Soul]

this is not what we believe at all. please know that this is not the place to teach stuff contrary to the Orthodox faith.

I don’t mind posts like this personally. My question with regard to that proverb is this: Doesn’t redemption prove that we are not immovable? I’ve only just begun to learn about the concept of Theosis, but isn’t that what we’re talking about here?

Of course my understanding is so infantile, I may be off the base a bit.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Isn't common knowledge that kingdoms fall because of corruption.

what you said about human nature is where we disagree

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don’t mind posts like this personally.

it still breaks the rules, and if we allow it for one we allow it for everyone. many posts have turned into free-for-all. it’s why we have St Justin’s so folks can debate.

Doesn’t redemption prove that we are not immovable? I’ve only just begun to learn about the concept of Theosis, but isn’t that what we’re talking about here?

correct.

 

[roman2819]

what you said about human nature is where we disagree

Maybe you read wrongly. Or you can state where the disagreement is.