Church words - are they legit or is there problems?

[Eternally Grateful]

Being a member of many christian chat rooms, and having conversation with many people all over the country about God and his word. I have come to notice that it appears there are some what I call "church words" or terms. These words, or terms seem to be taken outside of their actual definition, and appear to be given their own interpretation. I can remember many times (I just had one here this past week) where people will say something, and I wince, or an taken back, and I am like, "where did you get that interpretation from" And I know for a fact. I will say things to others. and get the same reaction from them. which tells me this is a great problem in the church.

I was wondering if anyone else notices this. and wanted to discuss some of these terms and see if we can see why people seem to have different interpretations of them, which appear to not follow the general interpretation of the word or words. but appear to mean something totally different.

I will first start a list of words I see where this happens. and hope others can add to this list. so we can take a deep dive into these words. Then lets try to take these words and see what the differences are. and why people have certain interpretations. and are these interpretations valid. As I think of these, I am sure some will cause alot of controversy, But I also must remember, the things of God are not our ways. And they are foolishness to the world.. which means in our flesh, they may sound foolish (I think we will see as we move forward)

A short list I have thought of the last few days

1. Grace
2. Eternal Life
3. Church
4. Saved or rescued.

Look forward to others ideas or input.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Being a member of many christian chat rooms, and having conversation with many people all over the country about God and his word. I have come to notice that it appears there are some what I call "church words" or terms. These words, or terms seem to be taken outside of their actual definition, and appear to be given their own interpretation. I can remember many times (I just had one here this past week) where people will say something, and I wince, or an taken back, and I am like, "where did you get that interpretation from" And I know for a fact. I will say things to others. and get the same reaction from them. which tells me this is a great problem in the church.

I was wondering if anyone else notices this. and wanted to discuss some of these terms and see if we can see why people seem to have different interpretations of them, which appear to not follow the general interpretation of the word or words. but appear to mean something totally different.

I will first start a list of words I see where this happens. and hope others can add to this list. so we can take a deep dive into these words. Then lets try to take these words and see what the differences are. and why people have certain interpretations. and are these interpretations valid. As I think of these, I am sure some will cause alot of controversy, But I also must remember, the things of God are not our ways. And they are foolishness to the world.. which means in our flesh, they may sound foolish (I think we will see as we move forward)

A short list I have thought of the last few days

1. Grace
2. Eternal Life
3. Church
4. Saved or rescued.

Look forward to others ideas or input.

The basic reason Christians end up giving common "church words" different meanings is because there is no absolute, comprehensive Hermeneutical apparatus by which any Christian can point and tell others, "Here, and here only, is the absolute way by which you must interpret the Bible."

This, and the fact that the Bible isn't a heavenly dictionary, and so, we all have our work cut out for us in trying to understand the massive and diverse set of books we have collected in both the Judaic and Christian traditions.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The basic reason Christians end up giving common "church words" different meanings is because there is no absolute, comprehensive Hermeneutical apparatus by which any Christian can point and tell others, "Here, and here only, is the absolute way by which you must interpret the Bible."

This, and the fact that the Bible isn't a heavenly dictionary, and so, we all have our work cut out for us in trying to understand the massive and diverse set of books we have collected in both the Judaic and Christian traditions.

I am not sure I agree here. While some words or terms this may be true, I do not agree that this is true in ever case.

Can you site some examples?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I am not sure I agree here. While some words or terms this may be true, I do not agree that this is true in ever case.

Can you site some examples?

Sure. One example would be in the way that different denominations interpret certain biblical verses, such as Ephesians 2:8-9.

Now, with that cited, do you have an example of an "absolute hermeneutic" principle by which we all must abide in order to read and understand Ephesians 2:8-9 in a wholistic and fully rational way?

 

[Clare73]

Being a member of many christian chat rooms, and having conversation with many people all over the country about God and his word. I have come to notice that it appears there are some what I call "church words" or terms. These words, or terms seem to be taken outside of their actual definition, and appear to be given their own interpretation. I can remember many times (I just had one here this past week) where people will say something, and I wince, or an taken back, and I am like, "where did you get that interpretation from" And I know for a fact. I will say things to others. and get the same reaction from them. which tells me this is a great problem in the church.

I was wondering if anyone else notices this. and wanted to discuss some of these terms and see if we can see why people seem to have different interpretations of them, which appear to not follow the general interpretation of the word or words. but appear to mean something totally different.

I will first start a list of words I see where this happens. and hope others can add to this list. so we can take a deep dive into these words. Then lets try to take these words and see what the differences are. and why people have certain interpretations. and are these interpretations valid. As I think of these, I am sure some will cause alot of controversy, But I also must remember, the things of God are not our ways. And they are foolishness to the world.. which means in our flesh, they may sound foolish (I think we will see as we move forward)

A short list I have thought of the last few days
1. Grace
2. Eternal Life
3. Church
4. Saved or rescued.

Look forward to others ideas or input.

The meaning of words is determined by their use in Scripture, where the basic meanings are:
Grace = Unmerited favor; i.e., God's redemptive mercy and the pleasure or joy he designs for the recipient
Eternal life = God's life received by those who believe in Christ
Church = body of Christ, believers
Saved = usually means salvation from the wrath of God at the final judgment through faith in the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sure. One example would be in the way that different denominations interpret certain biblical verses, such as Ephesians 2:8-9.

Now, with that cited, do you have an example of an "absolute hermeneutic" principle by which we all must abide in order to read and understand Ephesians 2:8-9 in a wholistic and fully rational way?

I do not think you understand what I am trying to get at.

I am not talking about verses. but words. Such as the word Grace.

What does the word grace mean?
What are the many different interpretations of this word.
Why does some interpretations appear to miss the actual definition of the term.

While the different interpretations of the word "grace" may help to lead into different interpretations of Eph 2, I am looking at the word itself. not the passage

 

[d taylor]

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Those words are going to be defined as a church, according to the churches theology.

For an example belief is redefined by many churches and their theology. To mean obedience when used Biblically and not how the word belief is used in everyday life. Which is being convince something is true.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The meaning of words is determined by their use in Scripture, where the basic meanings are:
Grace = God's redemptive mercy and the pleasure or joy he designs for the recipient
Eternal life = endless life received by those who believe in Christ
Church = body of Christ, believers
Saved = usually means salvation from the wrath of God at the final judgment through faith in the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of one's sin

Yes, I can see these basic understandings.

But lets take grace for example. I see you have given what many see the biblical definition. But does it go deeper than this. in a general term. what does the word actually mean.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

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​

Those words are going to be defined as a church, according to the churches theology.

For an example belief is redefined by many churches and their theology. To mean obedience when used Biblically and not how the word belief is used in everyday life. Which is being convince something is true.

is this not a problem though? Should we not look to the actual definition. and not what people think?

I did not think of this word (belief) but this brings another issue, the english language and the english defenition.

Belief can fall under a wide range of interpretations.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Being a member of many christian chat rooms, and having conversation with many people all over the country about God and his word. I have come to notice that it appears there are some what I call "church words" or terms. These words, or terms seem to be taken outside of their actual definition, and appear to be given their own interpretation. I can remember many times (I just had one here this past week) where people will say something, and I wince, or an taken back, and I am like, "where did you get that interpretation from" And I know for a fact. I will say things to others. and get the same reaction from them. which tells me this is a great problem in the church.

I was wondering if anyone else notices this. and wanted to discuss some of these terms and see if we can see why people seem to have different interpretations of them, which appear to not follow the general interpretation of the word or words. but appear to mean something totally different.

I will first start a list of words I see where this happens. and hope others can add to this list. so we can take a deep dive into these words. Then lets try to take these words and see what the differences are. and why people have certain interpretations. and are these interpretations valid. As I think of these, I am sure some will cause alot of controversy, But I also must remember, the things of God are not our ways. And they are foolishness to the world.. which means in our flesh, they may sound foolish (I think we will see as we move forward)

A short list I have thought of the last few days

1. Grace
2. Eternal Life
3. Church
4. Saved or rescued.

Look forward to others ideas or input.

Nothing in God's Word is meant for private interpretation

1 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,

In all things we are to let God direct our paths

Pro 3: Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall [b]direct your paths.

His Word is to be the light to our path

Psa 119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet
And a light to my path.

Going outside of God's Word is danger:
Isa 8: 20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there[a] is no light in them.

The issue today is people want the blessing God promises but they don't really want to abide in Jesus John 15:4-5,10 or follow His example 1John2:6 so they create a bit of truth mixed with their own will and have convinced themselves they are following God's will. Its something we were warned about in the last days

Acts 20:30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.

I believe God's Word is our dictionary, the bible interprets itself even Revelation, the issue is it doesn't align with how people want to live so that's where the distortion of truth comes in.

Like living in grace for example, many teach that means to be lawless, but its not what Paul taught at all. We have all broke God's law and sinned 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 so we are living in grace. Its like when a police officer gives you a warning ticket instead of a ticket, does that mean the speed limit suddenly went away (the law) and either did God's law as Jesus in His own Words made abundantly clear Mat 5:17-30, John 14:15 Exo 20:6 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 15:3-14 John 14:15 Rev 22:14-15 Mat 19:17-19. When Jesus healed (gave grace) He would say go and sin no more (so back to obeying God's law)

as did Paul

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The issue is many have their own private interpretations of grace or sin instead of letting God of the universe define it. I don't believe short gain is going to help us when Jesus comes. Why He said many believers will say Lord Lord at His Second Coming who does their will and not God's Mat 7:21-23

 

[d taylor]

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​

Take the word saved you have listed here is a link to several written and one podcast of the word salvation/saved in The Bible.

Different Meanings of Salvation in Five New Testament Books – Grace Evangelical Society

Salvation from What? A Biblical Study – Grace Evangelical Society

The Word “Salvation” in the Book of Romans – Grace Evangelical Society

And the podcast

Does “Saved” or “Salvation” in the Bible Most Typically Refer to Deliverance in This Life? – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Clare73]

Yes, I can see these basic understandings.

But lets take grace for example. I see you have given what many see the biblical definition. But does it go deeper than this. in a general term. what does the word actually mean.

It means many things, one of them being unmerited favor.

 

[d taylor]

is this not a problem though? Should we not look to the actual definition. and not what people think?

I did not think of this word (belief) but this brings another issue, the english language and the english defenition.

Belief can fall under a wide range of interpretations.

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​

Well context plays the major roll in how a word is defined in The Bible. So a word in one context may not be used the same way in another part of The Bible where the word is part of a different context.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nothing in God's Word is meant for private interpretation

1 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,

In all things we are to let God direct our paths

Pro 3: Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall [b]direct your paths.

His Word is to be the light to our path

Psa 119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet
And a light to my path.

Going outside of God's Word is danger:
Isa 8: 20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there[a] is no light in them.

The issue today is people want the blessing God promises but they don't really want to abide in Jesus John 15:4-5,10 or follow His example 1John2:6 so they create a bit of truth mixed with their own will and have convinced themselves they are following God's will. Its something we were warned about in the last days

Acts 20:30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.

I believe God's Word is our dictionary, the bible interprets itself even Revelation, the issue is it doesn't align with how people want to live so that's where the distortion of truth comes in.

Like living in grace for example, many teach that means to be lawless, but its not what Paul taught at all. We have all broke God's law and sinned 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 so we are living in grace. Its like when a police officer gives you a warning ticket instead of a ticket, does that mean the speed limit suddenly went away (the law) and either did God's law as Jesus in His own Words made abundantly clear Mat 5:17-30, John 14:15 Exo 20:6 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 15:3-14 John 14:15 Rev 22:14-15 Mat 19:17-19. When Jesus healed (gave grace) He would say go and sin no more (so back to obeying God's law)

as did Paul

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The issue is many have their own private interpretations of grace or sin instead of letting God of the universe define it. I don't believe short gain is going to help us when Jesus comes. Why He said many believers will say Lord Lord at His Second Coming who does their will and not God's Mat 7:21-23

The issue we have is where do we determine who is privately interpreting a word,.

Lets continue to look at grace. Does not the fact that we are alive walking this earth. and have the ability to chose good or bad come from the grace of God?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

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​

Take the word saved you have listed here is a link to several written and one podcast of the word salvation/saved in The Bible.

Different Meanings of Salvation in Five New Testament Books – Grace Evangelical Society

Salvation from What? A Biblical Study – Grace Evangelical Society

The Word “Salvation” in the Book of Romans – Grace Evangelical Society

And the podcast

Does “Saved” or “Salvation” in the Bible Most Typically Refer to Deliverance in This Life? – Grace Evangelical Society

What does the word mean to the general public though? What does it mean in the hebrew, in the greek?

does it not mean rescued?

what are we rescued from (the context)

I see many claim we are saved. but when you listen. they do not actually believe we are saved (using the defenition of the word)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The issue we have is where do we determine who is privately interpreting a word,.

Lets continue to look at grace. Does not the fact that we are alive walking this earth. and have the ability to chose good or bad come from the grace of God?

Everything must be tested by God's Word- we do not test it by what other people are doing, Jesus warns us of following the crowd, God's Word it really is our manual for everything.

Yes, the fact we can choose God or choose something else is an act of God's grace instead of Him just destroying us the minute we sin, but instead is longsuffering and gives us so much time to make our decision and longs for us to submit to Him.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It means many things, one of them being unmerited favor.

interestingly though when you look up the greek defenition of the word. "Unmerited" is not found.

When we look up all the greek resources we see the word Charis as follows

To show kindness To manifest graciousness toward, Kindness (louw Nida)
Favor, loving kindness (intermediate Greek lexicon)
Kindness, Favor, thanks (
Grace, beauty Charm, Favor, Goodwill, Free benevolance (the closest I see to unmerited) Gift, benefit (vines)

this is just a few of the resources I have. Now we can take it in context.

so is any person at any time living or walking the earth not under grace? (We all deserve hell. so as a pastor of mine says, any day I wake up and I am not in hell is a good day)

does not the fact I can chose to serve and love someone, or I can not serve or love someone all come under grace?

Does that fact I am allowed to live, even if I am evil (say like Hitler who killed millions) under the preview of grace by definition.

Hence the part I said will most likely cause debate. the thought Hitler was under grace? Please remember in context. I did not say he was saved.. I am saying the fact he was allowed By God to do what he willed to do. is that not by grace?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

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​

Well context plays the major roll in how a word is defined in The Bible. So a word in one context may not be used the same way in another part of The Bible where the word is part of a different context.

Oh I agree.. But if we have the definition in error. I do not think context will help us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Everything must be tested by God's Word- we do not test it by what other people are doing, Jesus warns us of following the crowd, God's Word it really is our manual for everything.

Yes, the fact we can choose God or choose something else is an act of God's grace instead of Him just destroying us the minute we sin, but instead is longsuffering and gives us so much time to make our decision and longs for us to submit to Him.

Yes.

so why do some people think grace is something you recieve when you work. or something that you are given when you do good. and not when you do bad?

IE. My works are channels by which Gods grace is given to me?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes.

so why do some people think grace is something you recieve when you work. or something that you are given when you do good. and not when you do bad?

IE. My works are channels by which Gods grace is given to me?

Grace is not about our works- we all deserve death because we all have sinned and broke God's law. Grace is a gift of God that He gives outside of our work. Grace comes after Judgement, that is the part many underestimates its where justice and mercy will come together, we all have to stand before God for His Judgement based on our deeds. 2 Cor 5:10 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 14:7 Rev 22:14-15 Heb 5:9 some will receive grace others won't.

Our works shows what is in our inside- our heart and demonstrates if we have been changed by Jesus, but we are only saved by His grace, because we deserve death and the penalty Christ took for us because of His great love for humanity. Many misinterpret this free gift meaning when we come to Christ and He accepts us, but then they reject His sanctification His desire not just to save us from the penalty of sin, but save us from the bondage of sin. Mat 1:21 John 14:15-18 Gal 5:19-26 James 2:10-12