Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

[Leaf473]

Right, but ignoring can include being so focused on one's own thoughts that one can't see another. It is a kind of blindness. I made a similar point to Bob S (#395) in #347, but not nearly as blunt and concise.

In this case, the absents of proof is more difficult to see.

Hi Jerry

I didn't quite follow that sentence above

I responded to your post #347 in post #348

Was there more you wanted to talk about? I'll be happy to continue the discussion

I stopped "seeing" the dent in the back of my car a few years ago, because I have no intention of fixing it, and I am embarrassed by that.

Good example

 

[Jerry N.]

Hi Jerry

I didn't quite follow that sentence above

Hi Leaf473
I just meant that asking people to admit that something is not there is harder than admitting that something is there.

I responded to your post #347 in post #348

Yes you did. I just wanted Bob to see that he is not alone. I didn't expect you to respond to my statement about James' letter, since you are not having any issues on that. If James and the others wanted Gentiles to keep the Sabbath, I don't think they would have hesitated.

Was there more you wanted to talk about? I'll be happy to continue the discussion

I would like to continue the discussion, but I have come down with Covid, and my brain is not clicking well enough for serious thought. I'll try to think of something on this topic and get back to you.

Good example

 

[HIM]

I am wondering why all my previous posts on the subject have been ignored?

There are no good answers to that. Its easier for them to repeat their usual bulks of text, filled with the still same standard mixture of specific verses they like and with free thoughts to any direction they like.

Its very hard, basically impossible, to keep them in some strict, short and clear logical reasoning. They are not used to it.

The same can be said of you. And No one is ignoring anything. The issue is the forum isn't very active

 

[HIM]

I think Hebrews 4:10 clears it up pretty good.

Me too! How would you explain it?

 

[Leaf473]

Hi Leaf473
I just meant that asking people to admit that something is not there is harder than admitting that something is there.

Yes you did. I just wanted Bob to see that he is not alone. I didn't expect you to respond to my statement about James' letter, since you are not having any issues on that. If James and the others wanted Gentiles to keep the Sabbath, I don't think they would have hesitated.

I would like to continue the discussion, but I have come down with Covid, and my brain is not clicking well enough for serious thought. I'll try to think of something on this topic and get back to you.

Rest up, and May the peace of the Lord Jesus be always with you ✝

 

[ozso]

I think Hebrews 4:10 clears it up pretty good.

I think 2000 years of Christian history clears it up pretty good. The seventh day sabbath has never been practiced throughout entire time Christianity has been established. With pretty much the only exception being the seventh day baptists which started in the 18th century and the seventh day adventists which started in the 19th century.

So basically if this small relatively new group is correct, then the entirety of Christianity has been a sham. That's the only conclusion that can be arrived at. Either the sect that mostly sprang up in the 19th has it wrong, or all of the rest of Christianity has had it wrong for the last 2000 years.

 

[Jerry N.]

Rest up, and May the peace of the Lord Jesus be always with you ✝

Thank you, where can I ask you a question that is off topic? It is not personal.

 

[guevaraj]

So basically if this small relatively new group is correct, then the entirety of Christianity has been a sham.

Brother, the problem is that Christians have been asking God the wrong question through prayer when we expect the answer to be one of two possibilities: Sunday or Saturday, when both options are wrong and no one has the truth about the biblical Sabbath since Joshua. I believe sincere Christians have been asking God if they should abandon Sunday for Saturday without getting an affirmation from God because Saturday, as the Sabbath, has been a human tradition, like Sunday since Joshua in the following passage.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[trophy33]

Brother, the problem is that Christians have been asking God the wrong question through prayer when we expect the answer to be one of two possibilities: Sunday or Saturday, when both options are wrong and no one has the truth about the biblical Sabbath since Joshua. I believe sincere Christians have been asking God if they should abandon Sunday for Saturday without getting an affirmation from God because Saturday, as the Sabbath, has been a human tradition, like Sunday since Joshua in the following passage.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Sunday is not a replacement for Saturday/Sabbath. Christians do not need to keep any specific day and to cease all work in it.

In Christianity, Sunday is a celebration day, not a day of rest or of the Jewish Sabbath. The first church met on every day, only a tradition and power politics made it an obligation to go to the mass on Sundays, in the RCC-based cultures. Which caused some kind of no-work Sundays, still common in for example Europe.

But there is no "Sunday or Saturday" dilemma. These two days have totally different purpose, context and causes.

 

[ozso]

Brother, the problem is that Christians have been asking God the wrong question through prayer when we expect the answer to be one of two possibilities: Sunday or Saturday, when both options are wrong and no one has the truth about the biblical Sabbath since Joshua. I believe sincere Christians have been asking God if they should abandon Sunday for Saturday without getting an affirmation from God because Saturday, as the Sabbath, has been a human tradition, like Sunday since Joshua in the following passage.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Has the rest of Christianity interpreted Hebrews 4:8 the same as SDA does over the last 2000 years? If not then it's an interpretation exclusive to a sect that started in the mid 19th century.

 

[Bob S]

The same can be said of you.

When a post is directed to me, most of the time I will answer it so, your analysis is baseless.

And No one is ignoring anything.

Oh? Then why hasn't anyone, including you, answered the question posed several times?

The issue is the forum isn't very active

The issue is the forum isn't very active??? Poor excuse Him. It is active enough to get an answer to a very important question. If, in fact, God has never required Gentiles to observe the Sabbath then all of Sabbath observers proselytizing is the completely against His will. You all are trying to impose a law that has never been written.

 

[guevaraj]

Has the rest of Christianity interpreted Hebrews 4:8 the same as SDA does over the last 2000 years? If not then it's an interpretation exclusive to a sect that started in the mid 19th century.

Brother, the King James Version (KJV) hid the true message of Hebrews chapter 4 from generations of Bible readers, where we are told that Joshua, not Jesus, was wrong about how to keep the Sabbath "day".

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 KJV)​

Joshua did not pay attention to the change of the days of the week from morning to morning with the manna during the 40 years in the wilderness to the evening to evening Sabbath in Jerusalem, which is not a day of the week, as Joshua misunderstood the Sabbath in Jerusalem.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

Joshua got the days of the week wrong because of the early Sabbath in Jerusalem, when the days of the week are from morning to morning, as corroborated by someone other than me in the following video!

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[ozso]

Brother, the King James Version (KJV) hid the true message of Hebrews chapter 4 from generations of Bible readers, where we are told that Joshua, not Jesus, was wrong about how to keep the Sabbath "day".

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 KJV)​

Joshua did not pay attention to the change of the days of the week from morning to morning with the manna during the 40 years in the wilderness to the evening to evening Sabbath in Jerusalem, which is not a day of the week, as Joshua misunderstood the Sabbath in Jerusalem.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

Joshua got the days of the week wrong because of the early Sabbath in Jerusalem, when the days of the week are from morning to morning, as corroborated by someone other than me in the following video!

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Posting basically more of the same as before, does not answer the question I asked. Has Christianity held that interpretation over the last 2000 years, or is it an interpretation that for the most part is exclusive to a sect that started in the mid 19th century?

 

[Leaf473]

Thank you, where can I ask you a question that is off topic? It is not personal.

Hi If it's not personal, let's start over on Testing------- and see if we want to move somewhere after that

 

[guevaraj]

Posting basically more of the same as before, does not answer the question I asked. Has Christianity held that interpretation over the last 2000 years, or is it an interpretation that for the most part is exclusive to a sect that started in the mid 19th century?

Brother, the years of human error you speak of is evidence of God's existence. Our human error in understanding God's Sabbath proves that the inspiration of His word through the prophets has not been affected by human traditions. The Sabbath in Jerusalem proves that God's intelligence in writing His word is above the human beings He has used to give us His word.

As the Scriptures say, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.” So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. (1 Corinthians 1:19-21 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[trophy33]

Brother, the years of human error you speak of is evidence of God's existence. Our human error in understanding God's Sabbath proves that the inspiration of His word through the prophets has not been affected by human traditions. The Sabbath in Jerusalem proves that God's intelligence in writing His word is above the human beings He has used to give us His word.

As the Scriptures say, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.” So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. (1 Corinthians 1:19-21 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

This is not an answer to the question you have been asked several times. Your answer should be just one sentence and to the point, really.

a) the general Christianity has been wrong
b) the new movements and sects from the 19th century have been wrong
c) both/none

 

[ozso]

Brother, the years of human error you speak of is evidence of God's existence. Our human error in understanding God's Sabbath proves that the inspiration of His word through the prophets has not been affected by human traditions. The Sabbath in Jerusalem proves that God's intelligence in writing His word is above the human beings He has used to give us His word.

As the Scriptures say, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.” So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. (1 Corinthians 1:19-21 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

That argument holds if Christianity has been a human construct for the last 2000 years. Which I suppose is what you've been taught.

 

[HIM]

Brothers, the passage tells us what “rest” is being spoken of by telling us that it is the “rest” of the seventh day of creation

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

The Context starts in chapter 2. Please follow along

Jesus succors, helps us that are tempted. Wherefore, because of this, we are called to consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus. Who is faithful over all His House, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and rejoicing of the joyful expectation firm unto the end. So hear His voice now when you are tempted. Harden not your hearts as in the day of temptation in the wilderness. For some who had heard did provoke and he was grieved due to their sin, so their carcasses fell in the wilderness and they did not enter into the promise land, the fruit of heeding to His voice, His rest due to their evil heart of unbelief hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. So fear lest any of us should come short of entering into His rest. For the GOSPEL this rest, the Good News was preached to us as well as unto them. But it did not profit them due to them departing from the living God, not heeding His voice because of the deceitfulness of sin. But we which have believed do enter into the rest, the Gospel and thereby are succored when we are tempted because we heed His voice. This rest for which the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. Including the works for the rest which we have believed enter, which is the Gospel.


Are you with me so far?

 

[HIM]

Oh? Then why hasn't anyone, including you, answered the question posed several times?

You posted with out quoting or tagging anyone. And It was answered. Over and over again.

 

[HIM]

Posting basically more of the same as before, does not answer the question I asked. Has Christianity held that interpretation over the last 2000 years, or is it an interpretation that for the most part is exclusive to a sect that started in the mid 19th century?

There has always been a Sabbath keeping people in God's church.