Amillennialism & Preterism - Are these Biblical, or not?

[AFrazier]

I am not sure. Why do we even have multiple doctrines on the End Times?

In my opinion, because most don’t understand apocalyptic symbolism. Almost all the symbolism used in the Revelation can be found in the Old Testament prophets, along with many of the interpretations of the symbolism. The Revelation is an entirely different book when read through the eyes of proper interpretive methodology.

But some choose instead to see Apache helicopters and asteroids, forgetting that no scripture of prophecy is of private interpretion.

 

[AFrazier]

True, unless Revelation both describes Nero and a future event. I believe Revelation covers both 70 AD and a future Great Tribulation event that has yet to come to pass.

Can you elaborate on this? I’ve heard the recurrence concept before, but not a prophetic duality.

 

[AlexB23]

Can you elaborate on this? I’ve heard the recurrence concept before, but not a prophetic duality.

Well, some Christian folks here say that Nero was the antichrist, and some get into number stuff, where the name Nero translates to 666, though I do not follow or trust numerology. But, the Bible does talk about an evil ruler, and Nero would fit that bill, though an increase in famines (Matthew 24:7) sounds more like a 21st century reality or later.

 

[AlexB23]

Changed the title a bit from "Amillennialism & Preterism are false teachings that are anti-Christian" to "Amillennialism & Preterism - Are these Biblical, or not?"

 

[AFrazier]

Well, some Christian folks here say that Nero was the antichrist, and some get into number stuff, where the name Nero translates to 666, though I do not follow or trust numerology. But, the Bible does talk about an evil ruler, and Nero would fit that bill, though an increase in famines (Matthew 24:7) sounds more like a 21st century reality or later.

It’s not really numerology. It’s a simple gematria. The Hebrew and Greek languages only had an alphabet, not numbers. When they wanted to write numerals, they used their alpha characters. So, every letter had a numeric value when used as a number. The name Nero Caesar, transliterated into Hebrew from the Greek pronunciation, counts to 666. And confirmation of this intention can be seen in an alternate reading that gives the number as 616, which is, not coincidentally, the name Nero Caesar, transliterated into Hebrew from the Latin pronunciation, which leaves off the nu (Nero in Latin, Neron in Greek), and consequently the nun in the Hebrew, which alters the number by fifty. Someone very early on knew exactly who it referred to, and they adjusted the text to reflect a Latin-speaking readership.

As for famine, be aware that Jerusalem, during the siege, was gripped with famine to the point that mothers ate their own children.

We can’t look at one isolated fulfillment. It all has to be taken together.

Edit: It’s not my goal or desire to prove preterism. Rather, relative to the thread topic, I’m seeking to demonstrate that it’s not a baseless point of view. I’m content to be wrong if someone demonstrates that I am so, and I don’t need agreement or to “win.”

 

[RandyPNW]

Hey, thank you for the kind words. Could it be possible that there could be a partial preterist/futurist movement, where Matthew 24-25 (Olivet Discourse) is a dual prophecy, both predicting Nero in 70 AD, but also predicting a far future tribulation that has yet to come to pass?

Dual prophecies could satisfy both preterists, and futurists, cos compromise is important for all of us, myself especially.

Some use "dual prophetic interpretation" as a "middle ground approach." But I don't. Been there, done that. It doesn't make sense to me that the authors of Scriptures would speak out of both sides of their mouth. Nobody talks that way, nor would the Scripture authors in my opinion.

That being said, there is a kind of "telescoping" that takes place in biblical prophecy in which one truth appears to be reflected in multiple applications. For example, the foundational promise God made to Abraham that He would provide for the salvation of national Israel is echoed over and over again throughout Israel's history and in all of the prophecies given covering those situations. Truth appears to be true in all occasions, making the Scriptures appear to have dual interpretations.

There is another common Scriptural thing that may look like "dual interpretation" that is legitimate, in my view. That is where prophecy deliberately utilizes a current event as a stated prophecy of something future. For example, the prophet may do something in his life as an intentional symbol of what God will do in the future. You will see a lot of this in Ezekiel, where he is asked, by God, to do certain things in his own life that depict what God is going to do, later, with national Israel.

You can also see this pretty clearly in Hosea, who is asked to marry based on the allusion of this to God's destiny for Israel. But I think this is fairly common in all the Prophets.

Or you may even see some of this in an unstated way, such as how Joseph experienced certain things in his life that later turned out to be pictures of what Christ would go through. Joseph was not recognized by his brothers for the call upon his life just as Christ was not seen, by Israel, as being the Messiah.

But you will have to make judgments on the more ambiguous matters of things that appear to be "allusions to Christ." I personally depend on explicit Scriptural statements for my doctrines and truths.

 

[trophy33]

These interpretations can lead people away from a literal understanding of biblical prophecy

Why would you insist that Revelation, the most symbolic of all the books of the Bible, should be read literally?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I am not sure. Why do we even have multiple doctrines on the End Times?

Mainly because Eschatology isn't so clear that any one of us can make perfect heads or tails out of it. So, for me, I think it's best to give others breathing space where the "End Times" is concerned, even while I have my interpretive preferences.

Moreover, I think we need to be avoid equivocating the term "biblical" with "correct/accurate." These are not, and cannot, have the same, identical denotative reference and meaning. Probably, "biblical" needs to be use as a descriptor of a person's rational efforts in interpreting the Bible in a responsible way. So, we could have a few different perspectives on the Bible that don't necessarily agree with one another and they all are "Biblical," nevertheless.

And an "un-biblical" interpretation would then be when a person just willy-nilly reads the Bible and states, without clear and solid effort or justification, that some passage means such and such and that other people are somehow deficient if they don't readily and easily agree.

As a side thought, I can also honestly say that I've learned at least a little bit from nearly all positions on Eschatology (with "Kingdom Now" theology being the exception in this case).

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Look at what is going on with the Olympics, and the woke stuff spewing out from even some Christians. If this is not a sign that the Great Tribulation is in the future, I am not sure what is.

What does this have to do with Amillennialism? Absolutely nothing. Come on.

But yes, we all have different levels of discernment. I am gonna be honest with you, I only started getting into the Bible more over the past few months, so I am in no place to be criticizing other doctrines.

So, please stop doing that. Please ask God for wisdom.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

So, I apologize for saying Amil or Preterism is anti-Christian.

Apology accepted.

I do hope that Jesus returns again.

Um....what? You don't feel sure that He will return again? Or are you just saying you hope He returns in your lifetime?

But hey, when we pass away, we will be with Jesus and return to Him in Heaven above.

Right. It's a win-win situation for us who belong to Him.

 

[RandyPNW]

Why would you insist that Revelation, the most symbolic of all the books of the Bible, should be read literally?

It is not, in my opinion, a matter of whether the Revelation should be read literally or symbolically. In each instance, how something is to be interpreted or not is determined by context. In one instance the context may literally scream out for a symbolic interpretation. In another it may be very clear that we're dealing with a literal fulfillment.

I tend to view prophetic interpretation as a matter of what is *explicitly said,* rather than make personal assumptions about what is meant. Clearly, one has to make some assumptions, but doctrine should be clearly stated if we are to hang our futures on it.

 

[trophy33]

It is not, in my opinion, a matter of whether the Revelation should be read literally or symbolically. In each instance, how something is to be interpreted or not is determined by context. In one instance the context may literally scream out for a symbolic interpretation. In another it may be very clear that we're dealing with a literal fulfillment.

I tend to view prophetic interpretation as a matter of what is *explicitly said,* rather than make personal assumptions about what is meant. Clearly, one has to make some assumptions, but doctrine should be clearly stated if we are to hang our futures on it.

The whole book of Revelation is a vision and named as such by the author. Thats the general, default context.

The exception is the few first literal verses in the book, before the vision begins.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Some use "dual prophetic interpretation" as a "middle ground approach." But I don't. Been there, done that. It doesn't make sense to me that the authors of Scriptures would speak out of both sides of their mouth. Nobody talks that way, nor would the Scripture authors in my opinion.

Agree. You can make scripture say almost anything if you allow for dual fulfillments of prophecy.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The whole book of Revelation is a vision and named as such by the author. Thats the general, default context.

The exception is the few first literal verses in the book, before the vision begins.

Right. The book was purposely "signified", which means it was coded or symbolized on purpose so that only believers with discernment can understand it. Taking a literal approach to the book makes no sense at all. Not that there isn't anything literal in it, but a majority of it is symbolic.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

 

[trophy33]

Not that there isn't anything literal in it, but a majority of it is symbolic.

You mean in the vision itself? What would you propose is literal, there?

 

[Aaron112]

Um....what? You don't feel sure that He will return again? Or are you just saying you hope He returns in your lifetime?

Um, I was not/ have not seen the previous posts about this,
but there are in this world of people
billions of souls who follow a religion or a way that seems right to the worldly but ends in destruction , multitudes living now without hope or (maybe worse) with false hope taught to them by false gospels.

 

[Aaron112]

In each instance, how something is to be interpreted or not is determined by context.

Or it is simply revealed, the understanding given, as God gave / offers/ gives/ understanding to Jesus' followers.

 

[Aaron112]

The Revelation is an entirely different book when read through the eyes of proper interpretive methodology.

But some choose instead to see Apache helicopters and asteroids, forgetting that no scripture of prophecy is of private interpretion.

Instead of methodology,

there is a better, a true way.

When God Reveals that Jesus is the Messiah, that's when Simon bar Jona (Peter) knew it.
Same with all the Apostles and disciples then and afterward who know/knew Jesus.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You mean in the vision itself? What would you propose is literal, there?

The references to angels, the references to the souls of the dead in Christ, the reference to a great multitude of saved people from all nations (Rev 7:9), the references to God the Father and Christ in the description of the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15-18, the reference to God's wrath, rewards for the saints, the judgment of the dead, the reference to those "which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" in Revelation 12:17, the reference to the saints in Revelation 13:7 and so on. Not every word there is symbolic, though most of it is, as I said.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Um, I was not/ have not seen the previous posts about this,
but there are in this world of people
billions of souls who follow a religion or a way that seems right to the worldly but ends in destruction , multitudes living now without hope or (maybe worse) with false hope taught to them by false gospels.

I didn't say otherwise. I was talking to someone who is a Christian in that post, not to someone who follows another religion.

 

[Aaron112]

I didn't say otherwise. I was talking to someone who is a Christian in that post, not to someone who follows another religion.

You think? Why?
Read the own words of those you suppose to be followers of Jesus, and see if the words are from Jesus or from one of man's religions.