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Amillennialism & Preterism - Are these Biblical, or not?

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Spiritual Jew

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You think? Why?
Think what? Please be specific. I don't know what you're talking about here.

Read the own words of those you suppose to be followers of Jesus, and see if the words are from Jesus or from one of man's religions.
I don't conclude that someone isn't a Christian just because they misinterpret some Bible prophecies. Is that how we determine who is a Christian or not? Based on how they interpret Bible prophecy? No. It's not a case of people denying Jesus here, it's a case of people misinterpreting some end times scripture.
 
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eleos1954

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Hello folks. How many of you guys think that Amil and Preterism are anti-Christian? Many Christians believe that Amillennialism and Preterism are false teachings due to their disagreement with a literal interpretation of certain end-time events described in the Bible. Here's why:

  1. Amillennialism: This view denies the future millennium as a period of earthly bliss, which is often considered anti-Christian because it goes against several passages that describe this time explicitly (Revelation 20:1-7). For instance, verse 6 (NIV) says, "Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." This suggests a literal millennium where believers will reign with Christ on earth.
  2. Preterism: Preterists believe that most or all of the prophecies about the end times were fulfilled by events prior to A.D. 70, which is problematic because many passages in Revelation (such as chapters 6-19) clearly depict future events yet to come. For example, Revelation 20:4 (NIV) says, "I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God." This verse suggests a future event where believers will be martyred for their faith.

These interpretations can lead people away from a literal understanding of biblical prophecy and potentially undermine the hope that Christians have in Christ's return and the establishment of His kingdom on earth, which is central to Christian belief. For more detailed information about these views, you may want to refer to works such as "2000 Years of Christ’s Power" by Nick R. Needham (specifically chapters discussing millennialism).
This suggests a literal millennium where believers will reign with Christ on earth.

Says nothing about Christ ruling on earth.

Jesus is in heaven ... He rules from there ... when He returns we go to where He is ... He is in heaven. The place He prepares for us is in Heaven ... not on earth.

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. 2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.”
 
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AlexB23

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It’s not really numerology. It’s a simple gematria. The Hebrew and Greek languages only had an alphabet, not numbers. When they wanted to write numerals, they used their alpha characters. So, every letter had a numeric value when used as a number. The name Nero Caesar, transliterated into Hebrew from the Greek pronunciation, counts to 666. And confirmation of this intention can be seen in an alternate reading that gives the number as 616, which is, not coincidentally, the name Nero Caesar, transliterated into Hebrew from the Latin pronunciation, which leaves off the nu (Nero in Latin, Neron in Greek), and consequently the nun in the Hebrew, which alters the number by fifty. Someone very early on knew exactly who it referred to, and they adjusted the text to reflect a Latin-speaking readership.

As for famine, be aware that Jerusalem, during the siege, was gripped with famine to the point that mothers ate their own children.

We can’t look at one isolated fulfillment. It all has to be taken together.

Edit: It’s not my goal or desire to prove preterism. Rather, relative to the thread topic, I’m seeking to demonstrate that it’s not a baseless point of view. I’m content to be wrong if someone demonstrates that I am so, and I don’t need agreement or to “win.”
Gematria? So many folks use Gematria for solving Da Vinci codes in the Bible and stuff.
 
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AlexB23

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What does this have to do with Amillennialism? Absolutely nothing. Come on.


So, please stop doing that. Please ask God for wisdom.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.


Apology accepted.


Um....what? You don't feel sure that He will return again? Or are you just saying you hope He returns in your lifetime?


Right. It's a win-win situation for us who belong to Him.
I hope that Jesus returns in my lifetime, but yes, we will meet Jesus eventually in Heaven. Yes, I will wait for further discernment before going on about other doctrines. We have a bunch of signs of the times though.
 
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AlexB23

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Mainly because Eschatology isn't so clear that any one of us can make perfect heads or tails out of it. So, for me, I think it's best to give others breathing space where the "End Times" is concerned, even while I have my interpretive preferences.

Moreover, I think we need to be avoid equivocating the term "biblical" with "correct/accurate." These are not, and cannot, have the same, identical denotative reference and meaning. Probably, "biblical" needs to be use as a descriptor of a person's rational efforts in interpreting the Bible in a responsible way. So, we could have a few different perspectives on the Bible that don't necessarily agree with one another and they all are "Biblical," nevertheless.

And an "un-biblical" interpretation would then be when a person just willy-nilly reads the Bible and states, without clear and solid effort or justification, that some passage means such and such and that other people are somehow deficient if they don't readily and easily agree.

As a side thought, I can also honestly say that I've learned at least a little bit from nearly all positions on Eschatology (with "Kingdom Now" theology being the exception in this case).
Yeah, maybe I should stay out of Eschatology.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Well, some Christian folks here say that Nero was the antichrist, and some get into number stuff, where the name Nero translates to 666, though I do not follow or trust numerology. But, the Bible does talk about an evil ruler, and Nero would fit that bill, though an increase in famines (Matthew 24:7) sounds more like a 21st century reality or later.

Personally, I don't think the value of 666 in the Book of Revelation is a form of gematria. ..............But that's my opinion.
 
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AlexB23

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In my opinion, because most don’t understand apocalyptic symbolism. Almost all the symbolism used in the Revelation can be found in the Old Testament prophets, along with many of the interpretations of the symbolism. The Revelation is an entirely different book when read through the eyes of proper interpretive methodology.

But some choose instead to see Apache helicopters and asteroids, forgetting that no scripture of prophecy is of private interpretion.
True, there is one guy who thinks a solar storm will wipe out 1/3 of humanity. I call bologna on that one. Others think that the locusts are drones, which I call bologna on that one also. All we know is that the Tribulation is 7 years long, and is divided in half.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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I hope that Jesus returns in my lifetime, but yes, we will meet Jesus eventually in Heaven. Yes, I will wait for further discernment before going on about other doctrines. We have a bunch of signs of the times though.
In my view signs of the times are spiritual signs like increased persecution, increased deception, an increase in wickedness and a mass falling away from the faith (Matt 24:9-13;23-26; 2 Thess 2:3-12; 1 Tim 4:1-3). Is that the kind of signs of the times you're talking about?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Yeah, maybe I should stay out of Eschatology.

No, you're within your rights to study it, just like everyone else, Alex. Just know, however, that there is often a lot that goes into the construction and interpretive methods of each of the several competing eschatologies presently vying for everyone's attention.
 
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AlexB23

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In my view signs of the times are spiritual signs like increased persecution, increased deception, an increase in wickedness and a mass falling away from the faith (Matt 24:9-13;23-26; 2 Thess 2:3-12; 1 Tim 4:1-3). Is that the kind of signs of the times you're talking about?
Yep, those are exactly the signs of the times. 100% so, my brother.
 
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AlexB23

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No, you're within your rights to study it, just like everyone else, Alex. Just know, however, that there is often a lot that goes into the construction and interpretive positions of each of the several competing eschatologies presently vying for everyone's attention.
Hopefully, with the advancements in AI, computers could figure out which is the most probable eschatology view.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Yep, those are exactly the signs of the times. 100% so, my brother.
So, we're on the same page there, at least. Some focus on wars, earthquakes and famines and such but they miss that Jesus said those things will happen but will not be signs that His coming at the end of the age is near (Matt 24:6-8).
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Hopefully, with the advancements in AI, computers could figure out which is the most probable eschatology view.

They won't since I believe it requires the leading of the Holy Spirit, as well as the principle that the book of Revelation needs to be interpreted in connection to the rest of the Scriptures rather than apart from them. I don't know that A.I. programmers are that spiritually endowed to assume this principle.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Hopefully, with the advancements in AI, computers could figure out which is the most probable eschatology view.
Not a chance. These things must be spiritually discerned through the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:9-16). No AI can replace the Holy Spirit.
 
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What do you think of 666 as?

It's a symbolic echo of things God has said through previous prophets, just like what most of the rest of Revelation is from chapter 4 on to the end.

But again, that's my view, and I'm presently a non-dogmatic Historicized Premillennialist. However, I do hold out an ear for Amillennial and some Partial Preterist considerations within my hermeneutical mix. And I definitely don't push my view as the "final, end all, absolute" insight about the End that, I think, only the Lord knows.
 
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CoreyD

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Hello folks. How many of you guys think that Amil and Preterism are anti-Christian? Many Christians believe that Amillennialism and Preterism are false teachings due to their disagreement with a literal interpretation of certain end-time events described in the Bible. Here's why:

  1. Amillennialism: This view denies the future millennium as a period of earthly bliss, which is often considered anti-Christian because it goes against several passages that describe this time explicitly (Revelation 20:1-7). For instance, verse 6 (NIV) says, "Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." This suggests a literal millennium where believers will reign with Christ on earth.
  2. Preterism: Preterists believe that most or all of the prophecies about the end times were fulfilled by events prior to A.D. 70, which is problematic because many passages in Revelation (such as chapters 6-19) clearly depict future events yet to come. For example, Revelation 20:4 (NIV) says, "I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God." This verse suggests a future event where believers will be martyred for their faith.

These interpretations can lead people away from a literal understanding of biblical prophecy and potentially undermine the hope that Christians have in Christ's return and the establishment of His kingdom on earth, which is central to Christian belief. For more detailed information about these views, you may want to refer to works such as "2000 Years of Christ’s Power" by Nick R. Needham (specifically chapters discussing millennialism).
Thanks Alex. I had not heard these term before.
These beliefs are no more dangerous than believing that people will roast in hell forever, or that the soul is immortal, etc.
They are similar to many misunderstandings on prophecy, and do not affect people anymore than doctrines that promote Satan's lies.
Not many people understand Bible prophecy, anyway.
 
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AlexB23

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Thanks Alex. I had not heard these term before.
These beliefs are no more dangerous than believing that people will roast in hell forever, or that the soul is immortal, etc.
They are similar to many misunderstandings on prophecy, and do not affect people anymore than doctrines that promote Satan's lies.
Not many people understand Bible prophecy, anyway.
You are welcome. Someone messaged me about Amil, so I had to make a post about it. A part of me thinks that Revelation should be skipped over until one has been a Christian for a few decades. It is a confusing book.
 
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