Works Relation to Salvation

[Gary K]

Right, that one church has always been around. And we don't want to cause division in that one church, the one body of Christ. We probably agree on that, yes?

How does a person become part of that one Church, in your view?

Not necessarily.

We cannot compromise truth just to get along. Daniel risked the lions den and Shadrach, Meshach. and Abednego risked the fiery furnace rather than compromise what they believed.

Like Abel we must risk death before dishonor and obey God, In obedience is found our only safety.

Hebrews 11 repeats this over and over again.

 

[Leaf473]

Not necessarily.

We cannot compromise truth just to get along. Daniel risked the lions den and Shadrach, Meshach. and Abednego risked the fiery furnace rather than compromise what they believed.

Like Abel we must risk death before dishonor and obey God, In obedience is found our only safety.

Hebrews 11 repeats this over and over again.

Right, we don't want the compromise truth, but neither do we want to have divisions.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 1:10 - New American Standard Bible

Now I urge you, brothers and sisters, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

Right, we don't want the compromise truth, but neither do we want to have divisions.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 1:10 - New American Standard Bible

Now I urge you, brothers and sisters, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.

www.biblegateway.com

As long as the devil exists there will be divisions in the church. The history of our planet makes this patently obvious.

So does the book of Revelation.

Revelation 17: 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 

[Leaf473]

As long as the devil exists there will be divisions in the church. The history of our planet makes this patently obvious.

So does the book of Revelation.

Revelation 17: 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Definitely! We don't want to compromise on the truth Since divisions are a work of the flesh, we also want to work against them.

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 5:20 - English Standard Version

idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,

www.biblegateway.com

Peace be with you, my man!

 

[Icyspark]

First of all you certainly did make that false information about 2Cor3:verses 7-11. You would do anything to deny the real meaning of those verses. Too bad! I don't have to look up your comment, I remember it and I believe if you were truthful you know it too.

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, That verse said the letters came with Glory. The people could not look at Moses' face because of the glory of the letters. That glory was temporary spark just as it reads. It was the letters that radiated off of Moses' face. That was temporary because Paul in the next few verses tells us the ten were only temporary and now the Holy Spirit is now more glorious and what was glorious is now done away. KJV 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

The stones were so glorious the people could not keep looking at Moses' face. It certainly does not indicate that Moses was glorious, it had to be the reflection from the glorious stones that would, in time, fade away just as Paul wrote they did. How many times does Paul have to indicate we are not under the Law before you understand?

There is nothing to Ha! about spark. The fact is that the Israelites were to remain in their dwellings. If all God wanted to communicate to the people not to pick up sticks on the Sabbath He certainly wouldn't have preceded it with the rule not to leave their dwellings.

Hi Bob S,

There's really no point in my trying to refute your undocumented accusations. You can just make up whatever nonsense you want and then insist that I said something. I patently reject your accusation.

At this point I feel that I need to put up a beacon for the uninitiated.

FALSE TEACHING #1: Adding and subtracting
In Deuteronomy 4:2 God says, "Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it." But you reject God's directive and do exactly what He says not to do. You're constantly attempting to either subtract at least one of the commands from the Ten Commandment covenant, or you're attempting to add the Ten into the 603.

By whose authority are you rejecting what God says?

FALSE TEACHING #2: Elevating an unbiblical number (613) and attempting to marginalize one that is biblical (Ten)
There are currently 15 pages (x20 items/page) of you bandying about this unbiblical number in your apparent attempt to disparage the one set of laws which in FACT has a numeral attached to it and which is also defined as a covenant. I'd say this is not only a fixation but an attempt to do what you used to loudly, constantly and at length insist that Adventists were trying to brainwash people. But as I pointed out, it was actually you who was employing brainwashing techniques and it's apparent that you are continuing to do so.

Please show us anywhere in the Bible where this 613 number is so we can see why it is so important that you feel the need to blast this forum with it over 300 times! If you cannot supply any biblical reference for this number—and you can't—then this is the definition of attempted brainwashing.

FALSE TEACHING #3: Sabbath of the Jews

• Bob S says the Sabbath is for the Jews!
• Jesus says the Sabbath is made for human beings (Mark 2:27)

You're constantly asking Sabbatarians to supply a text which indicates the Sabbath was for anyone other than the Jews. We supply all sorts of biblical evidence to validate this premise. However, the one text which "absolutely" contradicts your private interpretation is this one where Jesus indicates very plainly that He "MADE" the Sabbath for human beings. Are you a human being? Then JESUS SAYS HE MADE THE SABBATH FOR YOU. This is inclusive language. By not believing and receiving Jesus's words, you reveal that you are rejecting Jesus! What does Jesus say about those who reject Him?

FALSE TEACHING #4: Employing Postmodern thinking to reject what the Bible plainly teaches
In this post you asserted, "satin [sic] will still tempt us in every way, but Jesus can and will keep us from falling. Jn 3:16." To which I replied, "John 3:16 doesn't say anything about keeping us from falling." To which you responded, "Sorry spark, it doesn't have to." This exchange illustrates the mind-numbing elevation of your own finite opinion above the Word of God and why your words should be condemned as false teaching.

FALSE TEACHING #5: You insist that the Sabbath is "absolutely" ritual
You said, "There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality. Throughout the Old Testament people were excused when breaking the Sabbath which was a ritual law."

To which I replied:

Again, this is a rejection of knowledge. I'm sure you're familiar with the story of the man caught collecting sticks on the Sabbath? Was he "excused when breaking the Sabbath"? Um, no.​

​

Numbers 15:32-36
Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.​

​

According to your rationale, "There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality," you'd have to conclude that your premise affirms rather than denies the Sabbath as "dealing with morality." You don't just get to arbitrarily exclude something which doesn't align with your predetermined beliefs.​

To which you wrote:

Hi spark, It seems like there is an exception to any rule and of course, you would find one.​

So, while you elevate your own words and finite opinion above the Bible in general and the specific words of Jesus in particular, you also are not consistent or coherent within the framework of your own words. I just counteracted your self-contrived concept that the Sabbath is a ritual command using your own stated, absolute belief system against you. But as we saw in FALSE TEACHING #4 where your false claim was rebutted showing that your contention didn't align with Scripture you just moved the goal posts. Your response was, "Sorry spark, it doesn't have to." The goal posts are constantly in a state of motion with you.

People aren't fooled. Especially those who have been given the gift of discernment.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob S,

There's really no point in my trying to refute your undocumented accusations. You can just make up whatever nonsense you want and then insist that I said something. I patently reject your accusation.

At this point I feel that I need to put up a beacon for the uninitiated.

FALSE TEACHING #1: Adding and subtracting
In Deuteronomy 4:2 God says, "Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it." But you reject God's directive and do exactly what He says not to do. You're constantly attempting to either subtract at least one of the commands from the Ten Commandment covenant, or you're attempting to add the Ten into the 603.

By whose authority are you rejecting what God says?

God said to who??? He never said that to any other nation. That was a direct command to the Nation of Israel.

Did God command Israel to wear tassels on their garments? Why do you ignore His command and only adhere to the ritual Sabbath command?

FALSE TEACHING #2: Elevating an unbiblical number (613) and attempting to marginalize one that is biblical (Ten)
There are currently 15 pages (x20 items/page) of you bandying about this unbiblical number in your apparent attempt to disparage the one set of laws which in FACT has a numeral attached to it and which is also defined as a covenant. I'd say this is not only a fixation but an attempt to do what you used to loudly, constantly and at length insist that Adventists were trying to brainwash people. But as I pointed out, it was actually you who was employing brainwashing techniques and it's apparent that you are continuing to do so.

Have you counted all of the commands God gave only to Israel? Adventists observe Saturday. Where did they get the information on which day is the Sabbath? You all brag that you keep the same day as the Jews and how do you know that they are correct? Jews went along with the date line where the week now begins in place of where the week began at Sinai. So all I can say is unless you can prove the Jews are wrong about how many commands God gave them, I will use their sum as the truth and your judgment is false.

Please show us anywhere in the Bible where this 613 number is so we can see why it is so important that you feel the need to blast this forum with it over 300 times! If you cannot supply any biblical reference for this number—and you can't—then this is the definition of attempted brainwashing.

Ha! You have taken the time to count how many times I have used 613? That was a complete waste of time now wasn't it? Since you did the dirty deed at least you could have used the exact number and another thing, what are you trying to prove?

FALSE TEACHING #3: Sabbath of the Jews

• Bob S says the Sabbath is for the Jews!
• Jesus says the Sabbath is made for human beings (Mark 2:27)

You're constantly asking Sabbatarians to supply a text which indicates the Sabbath was for anyone other than the Jews. We supply all sorts of biblical evidence to validate this premise. However, the one text which "absolutely" contradicts your private interpretation is this one where Jesus indicates very plainly that He "MADE" the Sabbath for human beings. Are you a human being? Then JESUS SAYS HE MADE THE SABBATH FOR YOU. This is inclusive language. By not believing and receiving Jesus's words, you reveal that you are rejecting Jesus! What does Jesus say about those who reject Him?

And my question to all you Sabbath tryers is why is there no evidence that the Sabbath requirement was ever given to any other nation? If it was made for man certainly God never enforced it on the Gentile nations. The Israelite nation was very exclusive. To use one verse to prove that God required everyone to observe a day dedicated to one nation is absurd.

The fact is that SDAs are teaching falsehood, you included.

FALSE TEACHING #4: Employing Postmodern thinking to reject what the Bible plainly teaches
In this post you asserted, "satin [sic] will still tempt us in every way, but Jesus can and will keep us from falling. Jn 3:16." To which I replied, "John 3:16 doesn't say anything about keeping us from falling." To which you responded, "Sorry spark, it doesn't have to." This exchange illustrates the mind-numbing elevation of your own finite opinion above the Word of God and why your words should be condemned as false teaching.

Why should I take your word that I wrote that Jn 3:16 states that Jesus will keep us from falling? I normally use Jude 1:24-25 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

Those verses are promises that you and your church should be spreading instead of unless we "keep" the old covenant Sabbath, that was given to only one nation, we will go to Hell.

FALSE TEACHING #5: You insist that the Sabbath is "absolutely" ritual
You said, "There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality. Throughout the Old Testament people were excused when breaking the Sabbath which was a ritual law."

And I named some of the verses like the soldiers marching around Jarrico eight days in a row. 2Kings 11: 4 In the seventh year Jehoiada sent for the commanders of units of a hundred, the Carites and the guards and had them brought to him at the temple of the Lord. He made a covenant with them and put them under oath at the temple of the Lord. Then he showed them the king’s son. 5 He commanded them, saying, “This is what you are to do: You who are in the three companies that are going on duty on the Sabbath—a third of you guarding the royal palace, 6 a third at the Sur Gate, and a third at the gate behind the guard, who take turns guarding the temple— 7 and you who are in the other two companies that normally go off Sabbath duty are all to guard the temple for the king. 8 Station yourselves around the king, each of you with weapon in hand. Anyone who approaches your ranks is to be put to death. Stay close to the king wherever he goes.”

Read Nehemiah 13. According to you all those who bought on the Sabbath should have been stoned. Read all of the verses that claim the Israelites desecrated the Sabbath and no one was ever stoned.

The Sabbath command was a ritual command. It had nothing to do with how we treat our fellow man.

To which I replied:

Again, this is a rejection of knowledge. I'm sure you're familiar with the story of the man caught collecting sticks on the Sabbath? Was he "excused when breaking the Sabbath"? Um, no.​

That incident certainly didn't make the Sabbath command one that deals with morality. Are you able you find, in all of the Bible, where anyone was ever stoned for breaking the Sabbath except the man who picked up the stick

​

Numbers 15:32-36​

Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.​

​

Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.​

​

According to your rationale, "There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality," you'd have to conclude that your premise affirms rather than denies the Sabbath as "dealing with morality." You don't just get to arbitrarily exclude something which doesn't align with your predetermined beliefs.​

So, because God had the man stoned that made the Sabbath command a command dealing with morality? What are you going to claim next? Oy!

To which you wrote:

Hi spark, It seems like there is an exception to any rule and of course, you would find one.​

So, while you elevate your own words and finite opinion above the Bible in general and the specific words of Jesus in particular, you also are not consistent or coherent within the framework of your own words. I just counteracted your self-contrived concept that the Sabbath is a ritual command using your own stated, absolute belief system against you. But as we saw in FALSE TEACHING #4 where your false claim was rebutted showing that your contention didn't align with Scripture you just moved the goal posts. Your response was, "Sorry spark, it doesn't have to." The goal posts are constantly in a state of motion with you.

People aren't fooled. Especially those who have been given the gift of discernment.

No, people definitely are not fooled by all of you worthless accusations. I stand with most Christians that believe the fourth commandment WAS a ritual command. Unlike the other commands it has nothing to do with how we treat God and our fellow man. Israel was to celebrate it to remind them of their flight out of slavery in Egypt and God's creation.

 

[Gary K]

God said to who??? He never said that to any other nation. That was a direct command to the Nation of Israel.

Did God command Israel to wear tassels on their garments? Why do you ignore His command and only adhere to the ritual Sabbath command?

Have you counted all of the commands God gave only to Israel? Adventists observe Saturday. Where did they get the information on which day is the Sabbath? You all brag that you keep the same day as the Jews and how do you know that they are correct? Jews went along with the date line where the week now begins in place of where the week began at Sinai. So all I can say is unless you can prove the Jews are wrong about how many commands God gave them, I will use their sum as the truth and your judgment is false.

Ha! You have taken the time to count how many times I have used 613? That was a complete waste of time now wasn't it? Since you did the dirty deed at least you could have used the exact number and another thing, what are you trying to prove?


And my question to all you Sabbath tryers is why is there no evidence that the Sabbath requirement was ever given to any other nation? If it was made for man certainly God never enforced it on the Gentile nations. The Israelite nation was very exclusive. To use one verse to prove that God required everyone to observe a day dedicated to one nation is absurd.

The fact is that SDAs are teaching falsehood, you included.

Why should I take your word that I wrote that Jn 3:16 states that Jesus will keep us from falling? I normally use Jude 1:24-25 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

Those verses are promises that you and your church should be spreading instead of unless we "keep" the old covenant Sabbath, that was given to only one nation, we will go to Hell.

And I named some of the verses like the soldiers marching around Jarrico eight days in a row. 2Kings 11: 4 In the seventh year Jehoiada sent for the commanders of units of a hundred, the Carites and the guards and had them brought to him at the temple of the Lord. He made a covenant with them and put them under oath at the temple of the Lord. Then he showed them the king’s son. 5 He commanded them, saying, “This is what you are to do: You who are in the three companies that are going on duty on the Sabbath—a third of you guarding the royal palace, 6 a third at the Sur Gate, and a third at the gate behind the guard, who take turns guarding the temple— 7 and you who are in the other two companies that normally go off Sabbath duty are all to guard the temple for the king. 8 Station yourselves around the king, each of you with weapon in hand. Anyone who approaches your ranks is to be put to death. Stay close to the king wherever he goes.”

Read Nehemiah 13. According to you all those who bought on the Sabbath should have been stoned. Read all of the verses that claim the Israelites desecrated the Sabbath and no one was ever stoned.

The Sabbath command was a ritual command. It had nothing to do with how we treat our fellow man.

That incident certainly didn't make the Sabbath command one that deals with morality. Are you able you find, in all of the Bible, where anyone was ever stoned for breaking the Sabbath except the man who picked up the stick

So, because God had the man stoned that made the Sabbath command a command dealing with morality? What are you going to claim next? Oy!

No, people definitely are not fooled by all of you worthless accusations. I stand with most Christians that believe the fourth commandment WAS a ritual command. Unlike the other commands it has nothing to do with how we treat God and our fellow man. Israel was to celebrate it to remind them of their flight out of slavery in Egypt and God's creation.

Why do you keep going back to the concepts you hold where you've already been shown are false?

It appears to me you don't care if something you choose to believe is true or false.

 

[Icyspark]

God said to who??? He never said that to any other nation. That was a direct command to the Nation of Israel.

Hi Bob S,

Great! Thanks for reminding me of this false teaching.

FALSE TEACHING #6: Not an inkling of the Sabbath
In the not so distant past your contention was that Earth's population had "not an inkling of the knowledge of Saturday being special." This had the special bizarre quality of being posted on a thread which, if read, shoulda, coulda, woulda prevented you from posting something so patently false. That said, you actually acknowledged that you were aware of the truth, but you chose to proceed with your own feeble attempt at brainwashing.

I responded to your false teaching by showing how there are numerous languages all over the world which identify the seventh day of the week as Sabbath.

And what did you do with your "not an inkling" false teaching? You immediately jettisoned it and threw down this gem: "Is there any evidence of any of those nations observing Sabbath?"

It's just one false teaching goose-stepping in lock step behind another with you. Your misuse of the word "inkling" ranks right up there with your misuse of the word "absolutely." If you weren't so brazen in your responses I might think you were simply ignorant of the meaning of these words. But your rejection of knowledge indicates what appears to be a premeditated (or possibly, premedicated ), intentional use of words intended to mislead the uninformed. In this case there was an ABSOLUTE INKLING of the Sabbath—all over the world! How did that happen? It just throws a huge wrench in your monkey-works.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Icyspark]

It appears to me you don't care if something you choose to believe is true or false.

Hi Gary K,

This about sums it up!

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob S,

Great! Thanks for reminding me of this false teaching.

FALSE TEACHING #6: Not an inkling of the Sabbath
In the not so distant past your contention was that Earth's population had "not an inkling of the knowledge of Saturday being special." This had the special bizarre quality of being posted on a thread which, if read, shoulda, coulda, woulda prevented you from posting something so patently false. That said, you actually acknowledged that you were aware of the truth, but you chose to proceed with your own feeble attempt at brainwashing.

I responded to your false teaching by showing how there are numerous languages all over the world which identify the seventh day of the week as Sabbath.

And what did you do with your "not an inkling" false teaching? You immediately jettisoned it and threw down this gem: "Is there any evidence of any of those nations observing Sabbath?"

It's just one false teaching goose-stepping in lock step behind another with you. Your misuse of the word "inkling" ranks right up there with your misuse of the word "absolutely." If you weren't so brazen in your responses I might think you were simply ignorant of the meaning of these words. But your rejection of knowledge indicates what appears to be a premeditated (or possibly, premedicated ), intentional use of words intended to mislead the uninformed. In this case there was an ABSOLUTE INKLING of the Sabbath—all over the world! How did that happen? It just throws a huge wrench in your monkey-works.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,spark

Hi spark, there is an old adage that explains people like you. You would make a great Philadelphia lawyer. Woodie Guthrie sang about the guy.

Sorry spark, I have always made it clear there is no indication that God ever asked any other nation to observe the Sabbath. Your surmise that SOME nations used the same calendar as Israel so they knew which day the Sabbath is merely a theory. Had anyone known I am sure we would have some evidence. Most of the World for centuries has used the seven-day calendar yet only a tiny handful observes Saturday. SDAs spend millions trying to convince others that they must observe Saturday to please God. The false prophet even went so far as to write if we do not observe Saturday we will loose our eternal inheritance. Who made her the judge?

Your continual effort to discredit my posts does not change the fact that no one is under the ritual laws of the old covenant. The SDA church is the one teaching falsehood.

 

[Icyspark]

Hi spark, there is an old adage that explains people like you. You would make a great Philadelphia lawyer. Woodie Guthrie sang about the guy.

Sorry spark, I have always made it clear there is no indication that God ever asked any other nation to observe the Sabbath.

Hi Bob S,

No. What you have made clear is that:

1. You're constantly adding and subtracting from the Bible.
2. You're incessantly elevating an unbiblical number (613) through the use of brain washing techniques, which you then have the audacity to insist Adventists are the ones using.
3. You're continually saying the Sabbath is for the Jews! While knowing full well Jesus says it's not.
4. You're unceasingly rejecting the main and plain meaning of Scripture in favor of embracing your own constantly changing false teachings.
5. You're perpetually insisting that the Sabbath is ritual, but when your own rationale is used against you, you just kick the can farther on down the road.
6. Your position that there was "not an inkling" of the Sabbath was shown to be false even to your satisfaction, such that you had to retool your self-imposed premise in a feeble attempt to prop it up so that you could continue to lovingly embrace error.

Your surmise that SOME nations used the same calendar as Israel so they knew which day the Sabbath is merely a theory.

You position is that all these Gentile nations around the world just arbitrarily adopted what you would have us believe to be a strictly Jewish term and then they all randomly applied it to the seventh day of the week is just a continuance in your trend of your acceding to the absurdities of your fertile but dysfunctional imagination.

Had anyone known I am sure we would have some evidence.

The evidence you seek is the very fact that the seventh day of the week is named SABBATH in over 30 GENTILE languages around the world. This isn't a problem if you would simply accept the main and plain meaning of the words of Jesus. He said, "The SABBATH was made for human beings." You've apparently so thoroughly drunken from the noxious well of your own false teachings that you feel free to reject the words of the One you claim to love. That is truly sad.

The false prophet even went so far as to write if we do not observe Saturday we will loose our eternal inheritance. Who made her the judge?

Ellen doesn't judge you. Neither do I judge you. But you know what does judge you?

Jesus said, "if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

In this context, even Jesus isn't your judge. It is the words of Jesus—which you are so brazenly REJECTING—that will judge you. Jesus said, "The SABBATH was made for human beings," but you shamelessly and contemptuously REJECT the words of the Savior of the world. You say no to the infallible Lord and Creator of every atom in the universe.

Your days are numbered. You need to repent while there's still time.

Hebrews 3:13​

You must warn each other every day, while it is still “today,” so that none of you will be deceived by sin and hardened against God.​

Your continual effort to discredit my posts does not change the fact that no one is under the ritual laws of the old covenant. The SDA church is the one teaching falsehood.

If only you were faithful to abide by your own definition of what constitutes a moral law. It was your stated belief that, "There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality." You said it. Shouldn't you try to be consistent within your own stated beliefs? Why is it you are having to readjust your position and again kick the can?

The Bible says, "if you would hear His voice and when you hear it, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion."

The question is, Do you want to "hear His voice"? Or would you rather listen to your own voice? Is your own voice really so much more appealing than that of your Creator and Savior?

You need to awake from your spiritual lethargy. Talk to God. Ask Him to guide you into truth. If you truly appeal to Him then He will truly appeal to you. Don't mindlessly embrace things merely to support the decision you made to leave the Adventist Church. People leave Christianity all the time. Some even attack the church. But many of these same people eventually repent of their mistake and seek God's forgiveness. God will certainly forgive you too. Do it before it's too late.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob S,

No. What you have made clear is that:

1. You're constantly adding and subtracting from the Bible.

Oh my spark, you must really have it in for me—such a long post of accusations. I don't need to sort all of your finger-pointing because the lurkers well know the falsehoods the SDA church teaches. Your plan to discredit me with false allegations makes me all the more determined to clear up posts that are teaching falsehood.

Now to your falsehood #1. I do not knowingly ever add false remarks. Do I ever make mistakes, of course I do and when I do I try to always respond to those who recognize them. That is something I have never seen when I correct your errors concerning all the blatant lies you post trying to discredit my posts.

1. You're incessantly elevating an unbiblical number (613) through the use of brain washing techniques, which you then have the audacity to insist Adventists are the ones using.

I would think you could find some accusation that has merit. Are you able to tell us that the number is something other than what the Jews tell us? When you can verify a number please let me know. Until then I consider your accusation as just picky, picky, picky.

1. You're continually saying the Sabbath is for the Jews! While knowing full well Jesus says it's not.

I never used "IS" knowingly. the word I always use is "WAS" because Jews are not under the "IF" covenant God gave them at Sinai today. Jesus ended that covenant at Calvary. If you teach anything other than that it is a blatant lie.

1. You're unceasingly rejecting the main and plain meaning of Scripture in favor of embracing your own constantly changing false teachings.

HA! Give me some examples so that I can Biblically refute them.

1. You're perpetually insisting that the Sabbath is ritual, but when your own rationale is used against you, you just kick the can farther on down the road.

You make firm accusations that I teach that the Sabbath WAS ritual, but you have never proven otherwise. Maybe someone wiser than both of us can solve the problem. Is the Sabbath a Moral Law or a Ceremonial Law? - GCI Archive
Read the article then refute what he wrote.

1. Your position that there was "not an inkling" of the Sabbath was shown to be false even to your satisfaction, such that you had to retool your self-imposed premise in a feeble attempt to prop it up so that you could continue to lovingly embrace error.

That is nothing but another false accusation. If any other nation had an inkling that God demanded they observe a special day we would have some evidence of their knowledge. So far all you have done is accuse me of making a false statement. Show us some hard evidence of other nations observing the old covenant Israelite Sabbath instead of just finger-pointing.

You position is that all these Gentile nations around the world just arbitrarily adopted what you would have us believe to be a strictly Jewish term and then they all randomly applied it to the seventh day of the week is just a continuance in your trend of your acceding to the absurdities of your fertile but dysfunctional imagination.

Just some more blah, blah. Try getting real.

The evidence you seek is the very fact that the seventh day of the week is named SABBATH in over 30 GENTILE languages around the world. This isn't a problem if you would simply accept the main and plain meaning of the words of Jesus. He said, "The SABBATH was made for human beings." You've apparently so thoroughly drunken from the noxious well of your own false teachings that you feel free to reject the words of the One you claim to love. That is truly sad.

Exodus 31:16, "wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant; it is a sign between me and the children of Israel"; and not between him and the rest of the world: and in Exodus 31:14, "ye shall keep the sabbath, for it is holy unto you". Why would the Sabbath be Holy to Gentiles who were never captive in Egypt? Why would anyone want to celebrate creation when we have the Creator to celebrate?

Ellen doesn't judge you.

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}
If that statement isn't found in Scripture, then she was judging. Read the nine volumes of the Testimonies for all the times she judged others, sick.
No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}
Same
All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}
Same
As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}
Same

Neither do I judge you. But you know what does judge you?

I am sure you believe I will go to Hell for revealing the real truth about Ellen and the church.

Jesus said, "if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

In this context, even Jesus isn't your judge. It is the words of Jesus—which you are so brazenly REJECTING—that will judge you. Jesus said, "The SABBATH was made for human beings," but you shamelessly and contemptuously REJECT the words of the Savior of the world. You say no to the infallible Lord and Creator of every atom in the universe.

The fact is that you reject the new and better covenant with better promises. You reject Jesus' words that He came to fulfill the Law (Torah). You make lame excuses for 2Cor3:6-11, Eph 2: 14-15, Col 2:16-17 and any other verse that tells us we are not under the Law (Torah). You reject the fact that Gentiles are not now and were never under the Law (Torah).

Your days are numbered. You need to repent while there's still time.

So, you really do judge me. I have claimed the promise given in 1Jn 3 19-24 and it does not include keeping days like you falsely indicate we have to do to inherit Heaven. The fact is it is not what we do it is what Jesus did for us. You and your church teach a different (false) gospel.

If only you were faithful to abide by your own definition of what constitutes a moral law. It was your stated belief that, "There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality." You said it. Shouldn't you try to be consistent within your own stated beliefs? Why is it you are having to readjust your position and again kick the can?​

Moral laws are forever. Old covenant ritual laws like the weekly Sabbath ended with the "IF" covenant at Calvary. Col 2 tells us not to judge us for not observing old covenant ritual laws. 2Cor3 tells us the ministry of death (the ten commandments) have been done away.

The Bible says, "if you would hear His voice and when you hear it, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion."

The question is, Do you want to "hear His voice"? Or would you rather listen to your own voice? Is your own voice really so much more appealing than that of your Creator and Savior?

You need to awake from your spiritual lethargy. Talk to God. Ask Him to guide you into truth. If you truly appeal to Him then He will truly appeal to you. Don't mindlessly embrace things merely to support the decision you made to leave the Adventist Church. People leave Christianity all the time. Some even attack the church. But many of these same people eventually repent of their mistake and seek God's forgiveness. God will certainly forgive you too. Do it before it's too late.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Could it be that it is you who needs to heed the advice you have intended for me? Remember when you point a finger at someone you have three pointing back at yourself.

 

[Gary K]

Oh my spark, you must really have it in for me—such a long post of accusations. I don't need to sort all of your finger-pointing because the lurkers well know the falsehoods the SDA church teaches. Your plan to discredit me with false allegations makes me all the more determined to clear up posts that are teaching falsehood.

Now to your falsehood #1. I do not knowingly ever add false remarks. Do I ever make mistakes, of course I do and when I do I try to always respond to those who recognize them. That is something I have never seen when I correct your errors concerning all the blatant lies you post trying to discredit my posts.

I would think you could find some accusation that has merit. Are you able to tell us that the number is something other than what the Jews tell us? When you can verify a number please let me know. Until then I consider your accusation as just picky, picky, picky.

I never used "IS" knowingly. the word I always use is "WAS" because Jews are not under the "IF" covenant God gave them at Sinai today. Jesus ended that covenant at Calvary. If you teach anything other than that it is a blatant lie.

HA! Give me some examples so that I can Biblically refute them.

You make firm accusations that I teach that the Sabbath WAS ritual, but you have never proven otherwise. Maybe someone wiser than both of us can solve the problem. Is the Sabbath a Moral Law or a Ceremonial Law? - GCI Archive
Read the article then refute what he wrote.

That is nothing but another false accusation. If any other nation had an inkling that God demanded they observe a special day we would have some evidence of their knowledge. So far all you have done is accuse me of making a false statement. Show us some hard evidence of other nations observing the old covenant Israelite Sabbath instead of just finger-pointing.

Just some more blah, blah. Try getting real.

Exodus 31:16, "wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant; it is a sign between me and the children of Israel"; and not between him and the rest of the world: and in Exodus 31:14, "ye shall keep the sabbath, for it is holy unto you". Why would the Sabbath be Holy to Gentiles who were never captive in Egypt? Why would anyone want to celebrate creation when we have the Creator to celebrate?

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}
If that statement isn't found in Scripture, then she was judging. Read the nine volumes of the Testimonies for all the times she judged others, sick.
No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}
Same
All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}
Same
As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}
Same

I am sure you believe I will go to Hell for revealing the real truth about Ellen and the church.

The fact is that you reject the new and better covenant with better promises. You reject Jesus' words that He came to fulfill the Law (Torah). You make lame excuses for 2Cor3:6-11, Eph 2: 14-15, Col 2:16-17 and any other verse that tells us we are not under the Law (Torah). You reject the fact that Gentiles are not now and were never under the Law (Torah).

So, you really do judge me. I have claimed the promise given in 1Jn 3 19-24 and it does not include keeping days like you falsely indicate we have to do to inherit Heaven. The fact is it is not what we do it is what Jesus did for us. You and your church teach a different (false) gospel.

Moral laws are forever. Old covenant ritual laws like the weekly Sabbath ended with the "IF" covenant at Calvary. Col 2 tells us not to judge us for not observing old covenant ritual laws. 2Cor3 tells us the ministry of death (the ten commandments) have been done away.

Could it be that it is you who needs to heed the advice you have intended for me? Remember when you point a finger at someone you have three pointing back at yourself.

Bob,

You're caught again. You have accused me of "trapping" you by getting you to answer questions that revealed your hypocrisy. You've also gone back to the "law" requiring tassels and front lets between the eyes after I pointed out to you the following.. The verse itself calls them tokens which are symbols of something else, the law of God being written in the heart for Deuteronomy 5 reiterates the 10 commandments..

Deuteronomy 6: 8 And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the Lord brought us forth out of Egypt.

You have made claims using this text that Sabbath keepers should be wearing them or they are sinning. The only people who ever wore these were Pharisees who you know good and well were enemies of Jesus and highly legalistic. So you're being very legalistic in making your claims.

 

[Bob S]

Bob,

You're caught again. You have accused me of "trapping" you by getting you to answer questions that revealed your hypocrisy.

Sorry Gary, I call them as I see them and all you have done is add another downright dirty lie. I have never used the term trapped. You lack the ability to trap me or any other new covenant Christian.

You've also gone back to the "law" requiring tassels and front lets between the eyes

Once again, a lie. I have never even heard of the word "frontlets" let alone use it. Your smear tactics have zero accountability.

after I pointed out to you the following.. The verse itself calls them tokens which are symbols of something else, the law of God being written in the heart for Deuteronomy 5 reiterates the 10 commandments..

Show me where you pointed that out. I really do not trust anything you post.

Deuteronomy 6: 8 And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the Lord brought us forth out of Egypt.

You have made claims using this text that Sabbath keepers should be wearing them or they are sinning.

Another lie, I have never used Deut 6:8 to claim anything. You tell us you are a law keeper and if so, the law required the wearing of tassels.

The only people who ever wore these were Pharisees who you know good and well were enemies of Jesus and highly legalistic.

Wow! Yet another false statement. I cannot believe anyone would be so blatant with falsehood. 37 The Lord said to Moses, 38 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘Throughout the generations to come you are to make tassels on the corners of your garments, with a blue cord on each tassel. 39 You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the Lord, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by chasing after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes. 40 Then you will remember to obey all my commands and will be consecrated to your God. 41 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt to be your God. I am the Lord your God.’”

So you're being very legalistic in making your claims.

That is funny.

 

[Gary K]

Sorry Gary, I call them as I see them and all you have done is add another downright dirty lie. I have never used the term trapped. You lack the ability to trap me or any other new covenant Christian.

Once again, a lie. I have never even heard of the word "frontlets" let alone use it. Your smear tactics have zero accountability.

Show me where you pointed that out. I really do not trust anything you post.

Another lie, I have never used Deut 6:8 to claim anything. You tell us you are a law keeper and if so, the law required the wearing of tassels.

Wow! Yet another false statement. I cannot believe anyone would be so blatant with falsehood. 37 The Lord said to Moses, 38 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘Throughout the generations to come you are to make tassels on the corners of your garments, with a blue cord on each tassel. 39 You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the Lord, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by chasing after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes. 40 Then you will remember to obey all my commands and will be consecrated to your God. 41 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt to be your God. I am the Lord your God.’”

That is funny.

What Law is in or to be in our hearts?

Our works are for the benefit of others, not connected to salvation. As a result of our attachment to the root. We bear fruit. The law of liberty is the New Covenant. Our hearts and minds being changed by God’s spirit. Which enables us to walk in His laws and statutes as a new creation begotten...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Icyspark]

Oh my spark, you must really have it in for me—such a long post of accusations. I don't need to sort all of your finger-pointing because the lurkers well know the falsehoods the SDA church teaches. Your plan to discredit me with false allegations makes me all the more determined to clear up posts that are teaching falsehood.

Hi Bob S,

I don't even think you see the irony of your comments in light of your own actions. You attempt to castigate others for doing what you yourself are constantly doing. You want to correct the supposed errors of Seventh-day Adventists, but you feel put upon when your own incessant false teachings are exposed. Why is that?

My "plan" is to do as I am admonished in 2 Peter 4:2: correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. That you don't like being corrected or rebuked is noted, but oddly you feel like you can correct others. Your "corrections" are not based on the Word of God, but rather on the sparks of your own fertile imagination.

Now to your falsehood #1. I do not knowingly ever add false remarks. Do I ever make mistakes, of course I do and when I do I try to always respond to those who recognize them. That is something I have never seen when I correct your errors concerning all the blatant lies you post trying to discredit my posts.

My corrections of your innumerable false teachings are generally buttressed with links and quotes. Your supposed "corrections" are accusations without foundation. You insist I said something, but when I ask for verification you just continue with your feeble attempts at mind control by continuing to loudly persist that your accusation is true. That's not how it works. Your word isn't the gospel.

I would think you could find some accusation that has merit. Are you able to tell us that the number is something other than what the Jews tell us? When you can verify a number please let me know. Until then I consider your accusation as just picky, picky, picky.

There are 15 PAGES with at least 20 examples per/page of you attempting your feeble mind control technique of saying something over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and hoping that the uninformed and uninitiated will blindly accept this unbiblical number as being relevant.

Is it "picky, picky, picky" to expect that if someone is attempting to emphasize a number as being so important to Christians that they have to parrot it over and over 300 times? Actually, not. That is the DEFINITION of attempting to brain wash people. Above, I only repeated the word "over" 60 times, and that seems like overkill. But you intentionally attempted to manipulate people into perceiving the number 613 as being something other than what it is—unbiblical nonsense.

But go ahead and try to explain why you feel the number 613 is so important that you must place such repetitive emphasis on it that it appears that you elevate it beyond what God actually says? God actually and factually attaches a numeral to the laws He Himself inscribed—two separate times—in stone and calls this set of laws a covenant. You attempt to swallow up that God-given number with an unbiblical one. My question is why? Who does that? Well, obviously you do. It was rhetorical.

I never used "IS" knowingly. the word I always use is "WAS" because Jews are not under the "IF" covenant God gave them at Sinai today. Jesus ended that covenant at Calvary. If you teach anything other than that it is a blatant lie.

You are attempting a distraction technique.

The point of my comment is the obvious distinction between your claim that the Sabbath is/was only for the Jews, whereas you are in DIRECT CONTRADICTION with Jesus Who says it is for EVERYONE. ALL PEOPLE. EVERY WHERE. You can't deny what He says. Well, again, I suppose you can deny what He says, but whether your denial is based on reality is another thing.

HA! Give me some examples so that I can Biblically refute them.

That's funny. You rarely let the Bible speak in its normative sense, but instead prefer to read into it your post modern ideas and moral relativistic personal opinions.

You make firm accusations that I teach that the Sabbath WAS ritual, but you have never proven otherwise. Maybe someone wiser than both of us can solve the problem. Is the Sabbath a Moral Law or a Ceremonial Law? - GCI Archive
Read the article then refute what he wrote.

I used your own nonsensical position against you. When I proved from the Bible that your belief was in error you just kicked the can. Again. Nothing new here. Move along!

That is nothing but another false accusation. If any other nation had an inkling that God demanded they observe a special day we would have some evidence of their knowledge. So far all you have done is accuse me of making a false statement. Show us some hard evidence of other nations observing the old covenant Israelite Sabbath instead of just finger-pointing.

You just keep waving your hand, fast and furiously, hoping no one will pay any attention to your exposed "not an inkling" premise. Keep waving your hand. It only draws the attention of more people to see the "absolute" failure of your false teachings.

I am sure you believe I will go to Hell for revealing the real truth about Ellen and the church.

You have yet to reveal anything other than your private, personal, finite and failed opinions. I'm just documenting your failures and attaching them to you so you can't mislead the uninformed.

The fact is that you reject the new and better covenant with better promises. You reject Jesus' words that He came to fulfill the Law (Torah). You make lame excuses for 2Cor3:6-11, Eph 2: 14-15, Col 2:16-17 and any other verse that tells us we are not under the Law (Torah). You reject the fact that Gentiles are not now and were never under the Law (Torah).

I don't consider this so much of a false teacher making a false teaching, but more of a blind guide attempting to lead the blind. The reason I say this is because a lot of people make the mistake of attempting to conflate the law with the covenant. A covenant is merely an agreement. God and the Israelites agreed/covenanted that the law should and would be kept. The book of Hebrews says, "God found fault with the people," and then goes on to explain why He found fault. "Because they did not remain faithful to the covenant/agreement." The people made bad promises, saying, "All that the Lord has said we will do and be obedient." That was where the Bible placed the fault.

Bob's position: The perfect God of the Bible made a law which was innately flawed and needed to be rewritten from 613 laws and increased to 1040 in the new agreement.

This position is not only heretical and cultic, but it's absurd. How can you trust in a god who imposed unkeepable laws and punished people for their failure to comply with these impossible to keep rules? But then, it gets worse. This same false god you created is the same one who came up with a new set of laws with 427 additional rules. What makes you suppose that your other jesus is capable of coming up with a new set of rules which isn't going to be as compromised and flawed in the same way as his first set?

Your jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible, which is the Jesus I follow. Your jesus is created in your flawed image.

So, you really do judge me. I have claimed the promise given in 1Jn 3 19-24 and it does not include keeping days like you falsely indicate we have to do to inherit Heaven. The fact is it is not what we do it is what Jesus did for us. You and your church teach a different (false) gospel.

Jesus says His words will judge you on the last day. You know, those words of His which you're constantly trampling on and insisting don't mean what they clearly say.

Ephesians 5:14-17
Wake up from your sleep, Climb out of your coffins; Christ will show you the light! So watch your step. Use your head. Make the most of every chance you get. These are desperate times! Don't live carelessly, unthinkingly. Make sure you understand what the Master wants.

Moral laws are forever. Old covenant ritual laws like the weekly Sabbath ended with the "IF" covenant at Calvary. Col 2 tells us not to judge us for not observing old covenant ritual laws. 2Cor3 tells us the ministry of death (the ten commandments) have been done away.

This is just an example of how "absolutely" unwilling you are to even stand by your own words. If you can't even accept the words of Jesus and the Bible authors, why would anyone expect that you'd abide by your own words. But the fact is that on a discussion forum you cannot hide from your own words.

With that in mind let's read your nonsense yet again:

"There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality. Throughout the Old Testament people were excused when breaking the Sabbath which was a ritual law."​

When I showed you that God had a man put to death for working on the Sabbath you again just vigorously waved your hand in an attempted dismissal and then changed your premise of what is moral, hoping no one would notice.

Why is it so hard to live by even your own words?

In Matthew 12:37 are some more words of Jesus: "for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

Could it be that it is you who needs to heed the advice you have intended for me? Remember when you point a finger at someone you have three pointing back at yourself.

Earlier we saw that you will be condemned for the rejection of Jesus's words. In the Matthew text just quoted we see that your own words will also condemn you.

You don't need to worry about me condemning you. I'm merely correcting and rebuking you as the Bible tells me to do, hoping you'll wake up before your probation on this Earth sends you into your final sleep. I can see where your rejection, denials and false teaching are pointing, but I am not your Judge. That's the Guy your words and deeds are revealing you're rejecting.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob S,

I don't even think you see the irony of your comments in light of your own actions. You attempt to castigate others for doing what you yourself are constantly doing. You want to correct the supposed errors of Seventh-day Adventists, but you feel put upon when your own incessant false teachings are exposed. Why is that?

My "plan" is to do as I am admonished in 2 Peter 4:2: correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. That you don't like being corrected or rebuked is noted, but oddly you feel like you can correct others. Your "corrections" are not based on the Word of God, but rather on the sparks of your own fertile imagination.





My corrections of your innumerable false teachings are generally buttressed with links and quotes. Your supposed "corrections" are accusations without foundation. You insist I said something, but when I ask for verification you just continue with your feeble attempts at mind control by continuing to loudly persist that your accusation is true. That's not how it works. Your word isn't the gospel.





There are 15 PAGES with at least 20 examples per/page of you attempting your feeble mind control technique of saying something over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and hoping that the uninformed and uninitiated will blindly accept this unbiblical number as being relevant.

Is it "picky, picky, picky" to expect that if someone is attempting to emphasize a number as being so important to Christians that they have to parrot it over and over 300 times? Actually, not. That is the DEFINITION of attempting to brain wash people. Above, I only repeated the word "over" 60 times, and that seems like overkill. But you intentionally attempted to manipulate people into perceiving the number 613 as being something other than what it is—unbiblical nonsense.

But go ahead and try to explain why you feel the number 613 is so important that you must place such repetitive emphasis on it that it appears that you elevate it beyond what God actually says? God actually and factually attaches a numeral to the laws He Himself inscribed—two separate times—in stone and calls this set of laws a covenant. You attempt to swallow up that God-given number with an unbiblical one. My question is why? Who does that? Well, obviously you do. It was rhetorical.





You are attempting a distraction technique.

The point of my comment is the obvious distinction between your claim that the Sabbath is/was only for the Jews, whereas you are in DIRECT CONTRADICTION with Jesus Who says it is for EVERYONE. ALL PEOPLE. EVERY WHERE. You can't deny what He says. Well, again, I suppose you can deny what He says, but whether your denial is based on reality is another thing.





That's funny. You rarely let the Bible speak in its normative sense, but instead prefer to read into it your post modern ideas and moral relativistic personal opinions.





I used your own nonsensical position against you. When I proved from the Bible that your belief was in error you just kicked the can. Again. Nothing new here. Move along!





You just keep waving your hand, fast and furiously, hoping no one will pay any attention to your exposed "not an inkling" premise. Keep waving your hand. It only draws the attention of more people to see the "absolute" failure of your false teachings.





You have yet to reveal anything other than your private, personal, finite and failed opinions. I'm just documenting your failures and attaching them to you so you can't mislead the uninformed.





I don't consider this so much of a false teacher making a false teaching, but more of a blind guide attempting to lead the blind. The reason I say this is because a lot of people make the mistake of attempting to conflate the law with the covenant. A covenant is merely an agreement. God and the Israelites agreed/covenanted that the law should and would be kept. The book of Hebrews says, "God found fault with the people," and then goes on to explain why He found fault. "Because they did not remain faithful to the covenant/agreement." The people made bad promises, saying, "All that the Lord has said we will do and be obedient." That was where the Bible placed the fault.

Bob's position: The perfect God of the Bible made a law which was innately flawed and needed to be rewritten from 613 laws and increased to 1040 in the new agreement.

This position is not only heretical and cultic, but it's absurd. How can you trust in a god who imposed unkeepable laws and punished people for their failure to comply with these impossible to keep rules? But then, it gets worse. This same false god you created is the same one who came up with a new set of laws with 427 additional rules. What makes you suppose that your other jesus is capable of coming up with a new set of rules which isn't going to be as compromised and flawed in the same way as his first set?

Your jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible, which is the Jesus I follow. Your jesus is created in your flawed image.





Jesus says His words will judge you on the last day. You know, those words of His which you're constantly trampling on and insisting don't mean what they clearly say.

Ephesians 5:14-17
Wake up from your sleep, Climb out of your coffins; Christ will show you the light! So watch your step. Use your head. Make the most of every chance you get. These are desperate times! Don't live carelessly, unthinkingly. Make sure you understand what the Master wants.





This is just an example of how "absolutely" unwilling you are to even stand by your own words. If you can't even accept the words of Jesus and the Bible authors, why would anyone expect that you'd abide by your own words. But the fact is that on a discussion forum you cannot hide from your own words.

With that in mind let's read your nonsense yet again:

"There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality. Throughout the Old Testament people were excused when breaking the Sabbath which was a ritual law."​

When I showed you that God had a man put to death for working on the Sabbath you again just vigorously waved your hand in an attempted dismissal and then changed your premise of what is moral, hoping no one would notice.

Why is it so hard to live by even your own words?

In Matthew 12:37 are some more words of Jesus: "for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."





Earlier we saw that you will be condemned for the rejection of Jesus's words. In the Matthew text just quoted we see that your own words will also condemn you.

You don't need to worry about me condemning you. I'm merely correcting and rebuking you as the Bible tells me to do, hoping you'll wake up before your probation on this Earth sends you into your final sleep. I can see where your rejection, denials and false teaching are pointing, but I am not your Judge. That's Guy you're words and deeds are revealing you're rejecting.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Hi spark, the condemnation, accusations and judgment only reveal your bitterness and true character. I thank the Lord my children never sat at your feet.


One very good thing is while you are using your time condemning me you are not spreading the falsehood you and your church teach. So, I thank you for your continued hopeless effort to disqualify me.

 

[Icyspark]

Hi spark, the condemnation, accusations and judgment only reveal your bitterness and true character. [Interesting. So my biblically-based corrections are considered "condemnation" and "judgment," then I suppose your unbiblical responses are considered righteous and holy? Um, nah.] I thank the Lord my children never sat at your feet. [This goes back to your exposed hatred for teachers. What's ironic is that while your expressed opinion about teachers is to attempt to marginalize them, you yourself want to be a teacher—a teacher of errors, but still a teacher. Why do you hate on teachers but at the same time want so much to be one?]


One very good thing is while you are using your time condemning me you are not spreading the falsehood you and your church teach. So, I thank you for your continued hopeless effort to disqualify me. [Ha! You don't get it. You're single handedly keeping this thread on the front page of this forum. So thank you for constantly calling attention to your false teachings so I can "correct, rebuke and encourage" you "with great patience and careful instruction." The opening post is constantly in the forefront of people's attention, thanks to you.]

Hi Bob S,

Says the person who thinks he should be able to spread his false teachings without being challenged and corrected, but who thinks he should be able to correct others with his unbiblical nonsense. Icy how it is.

Don't worry, I'll keep correcting and rebuking your nonsense because that's actually a biblical admonition, whereas your nonsense is manufactured in the fertile imagination of your mind (e.g., In one post you asserted, "satin [sic] will still tempt us in every way, but Jesus can and will keep us from falling. Jn 3:16." To which I replied, "John 3:16 doesn't say anything about keeping us from falling." To which you responded, "Sorry spark, it doesn't have to.") You don't acknowledge your corrections. You just change your position, hoping no one will notice. Well, surprise! Ima be here to expose your false teachings, inconsistencies, and ever-changing of the goal line to the light of the Bible.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Bob S]

Jn3: 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. That verse tells us believing will keep us from falling. Jesus is the only one that will keep us from falling. Too bad spark you just committed another false statement about What Jesus will do.

Bitter, on the contrary. I have been so blessed since I left the Adventist church. Take giving for instance, I give because of my love for Jesus and my fellow man not because the church demanded ten percent of my wages with the threat if I didn't, I would lose my eternal life. The false tithing system Adventism teaches is a disgrace to Christianity.

Ellen White on Tithing:
God's reserved resources are to be used in no such haphazard way. The tithe is the Lord's, and those who meddle with it will be punished with the loss of their heavenly treasure unless they repent. Let the work no longer be hedged up because the tithe has been diverted into various channels other than the one to which the Lord has said it should go. Provision is to be made for these other lines of work. They are to be sustained, but not from the tithe. God has not changed; the tithe is still to be used for the support of the ministry. The opening of new fields requires more ministerial efficiency than we now have, and there must be means in the treasury. {9T 249.4}

In like manner a tithe of our income is “holy unto the Lord.” The New Testament does not reenact the law of the tithe, as it does not that of the Sabbath; for the validity of both is assumed,.....The Review and Herald, May 16, 1882.




Are you aware Jesus and the disciples would not have tithed? They didn't meet the requirements of the tithing law. Those who raised livestock and or crops were required to pay tithe. Levites also paid tithe on the tithe that was paid to them. The tent maker for instance would not have been required by the law to pay tithe. Your church is propagating a lie and teaching is by works of the Law. Ellen condemns us to Hell because we do not observe the laws that were given only to Israel and ended at Calvary. When did Ellen and her writing become the Judge????

Losing our eternal life for not observing the old covenant ritual Sabbath is another grave lie and is another teaching that salvation is by works of the Law. Paul in Gal3 called the Galatians foolish for turning from faith in Jesus to the works of the Law.

Ellen White
But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

Gal2: know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

Ellen White was a farse and those who cling to her teachings and propagate them are doing a great injustice to humanity. Those of us who have experienced Adventist teaching and are fortunate to find our way out have an obligation to help others to see the real truth.

Your ill will towards others who are presenting the real truth will not stop us from presenting the Simple Gospel to those who read these posts.

 

[Icyspark]

Jn3: 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. That verse tells us believing will keep us from falling. Jesus is the only one that will keep us from falling. Too bad spark you just committed another false statement about What Jesus will do.

Bitter, on the contrary. [Just to be clear, I don't believe I said anything about being bitter. I think maybe that's a Freudian slip?] I have been so blessed since I left the Adventist church. Take giving for instance, I give because of my love for Jesus and my fellow man not because the church demanded ten percent of my wages with the threat if I didn't, I would lose my eternal life. The false tithing system Adventism teaches is a disgrace to Christianity.

Hi Bob S,

Let's review. You asserted, "satin [sic] will still tempt us in every way, but Jesus can and will keep us from falling. Jn 3:16." To which I replied, "John 3:16 doesn't say anything about keeping us from falling." To which you responded, "Sorry spark, it doesn't have to.")

It's apparent that you realize how absurd your contention that John 3:16 has something to do with Jesus keeping us from falling, that your original "defense"—if one can call it that—acknowledged that the text didn't have to have anything to do with your contention. "Sorry spark, it doesn't have to," is the most brazen response which only a false teacher would employ.

What I want to know is why, after so shamelessly admitting to your false teaching, you are, yet again, returning to the scene of your false teaching and are attempting to manipulate your own words in order to change the meaning of what you so clearly stated? If, as you said, "it doesn't have to," then why are you so desperate now to make it "have to"?

Ellen White on Tithing:
God's reserved resources are to be used in no such haphazard way. The tithe is the Lord's, and those who meddle with it will be punished with the loss of their heavenly treasure unless they repent. Let the work no longer be hedged up because the tithe has been diverted into various channels other than the one to which the Lord has said it should go. Provision is to be made for these other lines of work. They are to be sustained, but not from the tithe. God has not changed; the tithe is still to be used for the support of the ministry. The opening of new fields requires more ministerial efficiency than we now have, and there must be means in the treasury. {9T 249.4}

In like manner a tithe of our income is “holy unto the Lord.” The New Testament does not reenact the law of the tithe, as it does not that of the Sabbath; for the validity of both is assumed,.....The Review and Herald, May 16, 1882.




Are you aware Jesus and the disciples would not have tithed? They didn't meet the requirements of the tithing law. Those who raised livestock and or crops were required to pay tithe. Levites also paid tithe on the tithe that was paid to them. The tent maker for instance would not have been required by the law to pay tithe. Your church is propagating a lie and teaching is by works of the Law. Ellen condemns us to Hell because we do not observe the laws that were given only to Israel and ended at Calvary. When did Ellen and her writing become the Judge????

Losing our eternal life for not observing the old covenant ritual Sabbath is another grave lie and is another teaching that salvation is by works of the Law. Paul in Gal3 called the Galatians foolish for turning from faith in Jesus to the works of the Law.

Ellen White
But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

Gal2: know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

Ellen White was a farse and those who cling to her teachings and propagate them are doing a great injustice to humanity. Those of us who have experienced Adventist teaching and are fortunate to find our way out have an obligation to help others to see the real truth.

Your ill will towards others who are presenting the real truth will not stop us from presenting the Simple Gospel to those who read these posts.

This is funny and is yet further proof of the cultic nature of your position. When someone is cornered in their false teachings they will likely do what you just did above. No where in the context of our discussion has the issue of tithing been brought up. But in a wild attempt to change the subject you just threw out a random topic. That is a typical cultic distraction technique.

Thanks for the bump and happy Independence Day!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark