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Can you be Christian and believe in evolution?

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truthpls

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I am afraid not.
It is not the 'knowledge' of bible seminaries that matters. Regardless of how elevated that may be above God's word in the minds and hearts of some people. No one needs lack knowledge of creation, God up and told us. Also, what we need for understanding the bible is the Spirit of God. It will then be clear to us that God is neither senile and contradictory and pathetic by giving contradictory versions of creation. Anyone pretending otherwise is indeed talking out of their hat.
 
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Reasonably Sane

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The dark matter and energy one is funny. It's invented to help hypotheses hold together. We've never seen it or detected it in any way. It's a faith thing. :cool:

BTW, regarding belief in evolution, I think it depends on what is meant by "in". I believe things can evolve over time, at least in a micro way. But creating completely new species? Nope. For me, testing it with successfully creating life from non-life in a lab would alter my perspective to a degree. But that hasn't happened yet.
 
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truthpls

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And you have never heard that those do not need to be literal. If you mean scientific life spans, then those are actually growing.
In other words the scores and scores of precise life spans, when they had babies, when they died, are all false and not to be believed according to you. Instead, you latch on to recent history to try and justify your unbelief. Science and modern records are a drop in the pan compared to the history of man. Calling recent longer life spans 'scientific' is comically short sighted.
 
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Ace777

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We've never seen it or detected it in any way.
A lot of things we do not detect. We just see the effect they have so we do out best to understand the cause. Dark matter's presence is inferred from gravitational effects, such as the way galaxies rotate and cluster together.
 
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Reasonably Sane

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A lot of things we do not detect. We just see the effect they have so we do out best to understand the cause. Dark matter's presence is inferred from gravitational effects, such as the way galaxies rotate and cluster together.
Yes. I understand. However, that implies the hypotheses as they currently stand are correct. It's making up for stuff that makes no sense, so they throw an imaginary (and it is, until it is detected) substance to explain it.

It is also similar to how we detect God. But most "scientists" consider that a cop out. I'm just saying that goes both ways.
 
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truthpls

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This is all about out interpretation and understanding of the written word of God.
A tree is known by what kind of fruit it has. Interpretation is known the same way. When interpretation leads to not believing in Adam and Eve as real, or tells us that God gave us contradictory chapters to start the bible, we know it is not good or of God.
 
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Reasonably Sane

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A tree is known by what kind of fruit it has. Interpretation is known the same way. When interpretation leads to not believing in Adam and Eve as real, or tells us that God gave us contradictory chapters to start the bible, we know it is not good or of God.
I agree with you regarding the concept of knowing a tree by its fruit, but I see the book of Genesis mainly as a form of poetry. I am not convinced that the serpent is the "person", Satan. And I also think it's possible that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was just like a lot of fruit trees in the garden, but by God telling them not to eat of it, it gave them personal experience/knowledge of good and evil when they disobeyed.

I think we add a LOT of baggage to the actual language and words in our bibles. I like to ask folks sometimes, when they make the claim that the earth is 6000 years old, how much time passed between Genesis 1:1 and 1:3? Maybe the takeaway is not that the earth is 6000 years old, but that this AGE is 6000 years old. We believe the science that the earth is a ball orbiting the sun. Why can we not believe that the earth really is quite old? The evidence is quite literally overwhelming. It's not that it contradicts what the bible says. Rather, it contradicts how some interpret what the bible says.

And Jesus never talked about Hell. But that is another subject for another thread. ;)
 
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truthpls

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I agree with you regarding the concept of knowing a tree by its fruit, but I see the book of Genesis mainly as a form of poetry. I am not convinced that the serpent is the "person", Satan.
2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him

Unless you want to wave away John and Paul and other parts of the bible as well, there can be no doubt who the serpent is
And I also think it's possible that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was just like a lot of fruit trees in the garden, but by God telling them not to eat of it, it gave them personal experience/knowledge of good and evil when they disobeyed.
We can speculate.
I think we add a LOT of baggage to the actual language and words in our bibles. I like to ask folks sometimes, when they make the claim that the earth is 6000 years old, how much time passed between Genesis 1:1 and 1:3?
Less than a day. If anyone doubts, we can read it

Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day

That encompasses the things done before the day was mentioned as being a day. In the same way all other days are likewise denoted

Maybe the takeaway is not that the earth is 6000 years old, but that this AGE is 6000 years old.
No. The 6000 is an educated, bible based guess as to when Adam lived. Since he was created at the beginning, that tells us when it all started here.
We believe the science that the earth is a ball orbiting the sun. Why can we not believe that the earth really is quite old?
No. Not if we believe it was created.
The evidence is quite literally overwhelming.
Not true. All evidence is subject to belief based interpretation
It's not that it contradicts what the bible says. Rather, it contradicts how some interpret what the bible says.
No. It denies all sorts of facts about creation. If a day was not a day, how long do you think Adam could have lived before woman was created? Claiming millions of years makes no sense. Most people who go down the road you speak of end up denying there was a real woman made from a created real man. etc etc
And Jesus never talked about Hell. But that is another subject for another thread. ;)
Jesus talked about hell more than anyone else in the bible.
Example:
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
 
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Reasonably Sane

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2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him

Unless you want to wave away John and Paul and other parts of the bible as well, there can be no doubt who the serpent is

We can speculate.

Less than a day. If anyone doubts, we can read it

Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day

That encompasses the things done before the day was mentioned as being a day. In the same way all other days are likewise denoted


No. The 6000 is an educated, bible based guess as to when Adam lived. Since he was created at the beginning, that tells us when it all started here.

No. Not if we believe it was created.

Not true. All evidence is subject to belief based interpretation

No. It denies all sorts of facts about creation. If a day was not a day, how long do you think Adam could have lived before woman was created? Claiming millions of years makes no sense. Most people who go down the road you speak of end up denying there was a real woman made from a created real man. etc etc

Jesus talked about hell more than anyone else in the bible.
Example:
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Sorry, I don't have time to parse all those answers into responses in a single post (like you did). I confess that part of it is that I've debated this stuff for years or, in some cases, decades. And I mean against every single argument you brought up. I'm seventy. It took me to a few years ago to realize that I need to heed what the bible says about arguing secondary stuff. We shouldn't be quarrelsome, so I'm not - any more. ;)
 
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simonw94

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Regarding the age of the Earth, many Christians, myself included, find harmony between scientific discoveries and spiritual beliefs. The Bible offers spiritual truths and teachings on faith, morality, and salvation, rather than a comprehensive scientific timeline. The scientific evidence for an ancient Earth aligns with God's majesty and the intricacies of creation, as observed through natural processes and geological records
 
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truthpls

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Sorry, I don't have time to parse all those answers into responses in a single post (like you did). I confess that part of it is that I've debated this stuff for years or, in some cases, decades. And I mean against every single argument you brought up. I'm seventy. It took me to a few years ago to realize that I need to heed what the bible says about arguing secondary stuff. We shouldn't be quarrelsome, so I'm not - any more. ;)
No sense arguing it is plain as day the dragon or serpent is Satan and that he was there in Eden.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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When is this joke of a thread going to be over and done with. The answer is, and always will be, "yes, a person can be a Christian and believe in evolution." And this isn't to say that all Christians, everywhere, for all time hence, have to believe in evolution. No, you can be a Christian and a Creationist if you like. Either way, we're Christians.

If I had my way, this secondary issue would be relegated to the back burner where it belongs ... it's tiresome to see it repeated ad infinitum.
 
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Reasonably Sane

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No sense arguing it is plain as day the dragon or serpent is Satan and that he was there in Eden.
Probably. But possibly not. I don't hang my Christianity on it, the age of the earth, etc. I'll throw this out: I don't think he was a snake.

I've learned, by losing arguments over the decades, to be very careful about what I state from the bible as an absolute fact. As one pastor of a large church with a lot of christian professor members said, the more someone knows about the bible and its origins, the less sure they are about their opinion on secondary issues. And he and I were talking about it because I brought up the unbelievable dogmatism I came up against in the tiny churches I visited in Kentucky when I first moved there from Seattle - on some of the most minor issues. And yet often they simply could not back it up - at all. It was like they were told this stuff in VBS when they were children and stuck with it their entire life with no increase in understanding through research.

The guy I bought my house from was a young pastor. He got his first congregation at a small church a few months after we moved here. He told me that in his new church there were members that were elderly and had been going there regularly their entire life, yet they could not tell you the difference between the old and new testaments. He was trying to change that. They fired him a few months later.
 
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Platte

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When is this joke of a thread going to be over and done with. The answer is, and always will be, "yes, a person can be a Christian and believe in evolution." And this isn't to say that all Christians, everywhere, for all time hence, have to believe in evolution. No, you can be a Christian and a Creationist if you like. Either way, we're Christians.

If I had my way, this secondary issue would be relegated to the back burner where it belongs ... it's tiresome to see it repeated ad infinitum.
Its a joke if you believe that everything evolved from a single cell organism instead of God creating it.
 
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trophy33

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In other words the scores and scores of precise life spans, when they had babies, when they died, are all false and not to be believed according to you. Instead, you latch on to recent history to try and justify your unbelief. Science and modern records are a drop in the pan compared to the history of man. Calling recent longer life spans 'scientific' is comically short sighted.
Why do you feel a need to change my words to different words... "in other words"?
 
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