There is no Rapture

[Diamond72]

Well Jesus already said that, so why would you care

Because Jesus also said he was not Elijah. That is what we call a paradox and we have to be sure there are no contradictions.

 

[Guojing]

Because Jesus also said he was not Elijah. That is what we call a paradox and we have to be sure there are no contradictions.

There was a "if" conditional then. Had Israel accepted Jesus at his first coming, he would be.

No paradox there

 

[Timtofly]

Moses was there at the transfiguration with Elijah, but he was not raptured like Enoch was.

How do you know? No one saw how Moses left the earth.

 

[Diamond72]

How do you know? No one saw how Moses left the earth.

The Bible said he was buryed. "He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor, but no one knows his burial place to this day” (Deuteronomy 34:5–6). Enoch was taken alive and did not leave a body behind. Although actually everyone is taken when they die. To be raptured means to be snatched up out of the body to heaven to be with the lord. The pretrib rapture means all who are alive in Christ will be taken before the tribulation period. Because they restrain evil so they have to be removed. If there was a nuclear war and a lot of people died at once then the would not even know that there was a rapture. It is believed that the resurrection is at the end of the 1,000 year reign of christ when we will return and be reunited with our body and life out our life forever here on the Earth.

I think people fight and argue over who, what, when and why. So we need to read the bible and be lead by the Holy Spirit of God and with so many opposing viewpoints we need to be careful. For me those that do not believe in a pretrib rapture most likely well be left behind. If there is a 7 year tribulation period because the scriptura is not real clear on that.

 

[Diamond72]

Well Jesus already said that, so why would you care that John did not make a similar claim?

I care that there appears to be a contradiction but when I check it out it is just a paradox. People give me contradictions all the time but when I check into them there is no contradiction. I am convinced that there are no contradictions in the Bible.

 

[Guojing]

I care that there appears to be a contradiction but when I check it out it is just a paradox. People give me contradictions all the time but when I check into them there is no contradiction. I am convinced that there are no contradictions in the Bible.

Jesus is saying If P then Q.

Since P did not come about, whether Q is true or not does not matter, no contradiction, no paradox.

 

[Diamond72]

no contradiction, no paradox.

In Matthew 11:14, Jesus refers to John the Baptist:

• “And if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come.”
• Here, Jesus acknowledges the connection between John and the prophetic role of Elijah.

John’s Denial:

• Interestingly, when asked directly, John the Baptist denied being Elijah (John 1:21).
• He understood that he was not the literal Elijah but rather the fulfillment of the prophetic expectation.

 

[Guojing]

In Matthew 11:14, Jesus refers to John the Baptist:

• “And if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come.”
• Here, Jesus acknowledges the connection between John and the prophetic role of Elijah.

John’s Denial:

• Interestingly, when asked directly, John the Baptist denied being Elijah (John 1:21).
• He understood that he was not the literal Elijah but rather the fulfillment of the prophetic expectation.

I still don't see any paradox.

John does not have perfect knowledge.

PS, you keep selectively quoting me, leaving out the part that explains my reasoning.

 

[Timtofly]

The Bible said he was buryed. "He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor, but no one knows his burial place to this day” (Deuteronomy 34:5–6). Enoch was taken alive and did not leave a body behind. Although actually everyone is taken when they die. To be raptured means to be snatched up out of the body to heaven to be with the lord. The pretrib rapture means all who are alive in Christ will be taken before the tribulation period. Because they restrain evil so they have to be removed. If there was a nuclear war and a lot of people died at once then the would not even know that there was a rapture. It is believed that the resurrection is at the end of the 1,000 year reign of christ when we will return and be reunited with our body and life out our life forever here on the Earth.

I think people fight and argue over who, what, when and why. So we need to read the bible and be lead by the Holy Spirit of God and with so many opposing viewpoints we need to be careful. For me those that do not believe in a pretrib rapture most likely well be left behind. If there is a 7 year tribulation period because the scriptura is not real clear on that.

Moses wrote those words before He walked out into the desert. He told them not to come looking, so he told them he would be buried, not that he was already buried. Moses was punished, unlike Elijah, who was obedient to God. Moses would never have a glorious departure from the earth, like Elijah did. But Moses still could enter Paradise.

Satan never got the body of Moses, which means it never returned to dust. Jude 1:9

"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

So, no one knows how Moses left the earth. If Satan had gotten the dead body, like all the other OT redeemed, except for Enoch/Elijah, then there would have been no dispute between when Michael transported Moses to Paradise, and death was to claim Moses' body.

Moses still had a body when he appeared on the mount of Transfiguration, with Elijah. They both would have come from Paradise for that moment. That was prior to even Lazarus coming out of the grave.

 

[Diamond72]

They did exactly this and finished in AD 70.

That would be 66 years after Jesus was born. We believe Jesus died when he was 33. The math is there but the Bible says no one would know the day or the time. The emphasis on not knowing the exact time also reflects the need for trust in God’s divine plan and timing.

 

[Diamond72]

PS, you keep selectively quoting me, leaving out the part that explains my reasoning.

I only quote what I am commenting on. If I quote your whole post people would not know what I am commenting on.

 

[Diamond72]

Moses was punished, unlike Elijah, who was obedient to God.

There is no room for error. God watches over His word so what we read is exact and precise.

• Jeremiah 1:12: "Then the Lord said to me, 'You have seen well, for I am watching over my word to perform it.'"
• Isaiah 55:11: "So shall My word be that goes out from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it."

 

[Guojing]

I only quote what I am commenting on. If I quote your whole post people would not know what I am commenting on.

Jesus is saying If P then Q.

Since P did not come about, whether Q is true or not does not matter, no contradiction, no paradox.

If you don't understand this, then ask, instead of leaving it out.

 

[sparow]

There is no room for error. God watches over His word so what we read is exact and precise.

• Jeremiah 1:12: "Then the Lord said to me, 'You have seen well, for I am watching over my word to perform it.'"
• Isaiah 55:11: "So shall My word be that goes out from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it."

I believe you got that wrong. There is no doubt that God will do what he said he will do, but what God said to Jeremiah 1:10, 1:11,was not precise or exact, but abstract, the rod of the almond tree is symbolic.

Isaiah 55:10 explains the exactness of Isaiah 55:11. I believe Isaiah 55:11 is more to do with power than preecision.

 

[Diamond72]

Isaiah 55:10 explains the exactness of Isaiah 55:11.

Maybe you should study up on the butterfly effect if you want to see how exact and precise the weather is. Have you heard of global warming? The average global temperature has increased by 1.1°C (1.9°F) since 1880.

The butterfly effect is a concept from chaos theory that illustrates how small changes or actions can lead to significant and unpredictable consequences over time. The term comes from the idea that the fluttering of a butterfly's wings in one part of the world could potentially cause a chain of events that leads to a hurricane in another part of the world.

Key Points:​

• Origin: The concept was popularized by meteorologist Edward Lorenz, who discovered that tiny differences in initial conditions could produce vastly different outcomes in weather models.

Precision: In systems sensitive to initial conditions, like weather models, even rounding off a number by a tiny fraction (e.g., from 0.123456 to 0.12345) can lead to entirely different outcomes over time.

 

[Jan001]

That would be 66 years after Jesus was born. We believe Jesus died when he was 33. The math is there but the Bible says no one would know the day or the time. The emphasis on not knowing the exact time also reflects the need for trust in God’s divine plan and timing.

Jesus made his prophecy when he was preaching as an adult, shortly before he died. A generation, to the Jew, was 40 years. No one knew the exact day or hour. When the Christians saw that Jerusalem was becoming surrounded by the Roman armies (the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel), they fled out of the city before the attack began. The Jew, Flavius Josephus, recorded the destruction of Jerusalem in his writings.

 

[sparow]

Maybe you should study up on the butterfly effect if you want to see how exact and precise the weather is. Have you heard of global warming? The average global temperature has increased by 1.1°C (1.9°F) since 1880.

The butterfly effect is a concept from chaos theory that illustrates how small changes or actions can lead to significant and unpredictable consequences over time. The term comes from the idea that the fluttering of a butterfly's wings in one part of the world could potentially cause a chain of events that leads to a hurricane in another part of the world.

Key Points:​

• Origin: The concept was popularized by meteorologist Edward Lorenz, who discovered that tiny differences in initial conditions could produce vastly different outcomes in weather models.

Precision: In systems sensitive to initial conditions, like weather models, even rounding off a number by a tiny fraction (e.g., from 0.123456 to 0.12345) can lead to entirely different outcomes over time.

Regarding Isaiah and the OT, it is written in symbolic language, metaphors, parables and all of the Hebrew semantics, and until around 700 AD the OT was written with out vowels which meant the reader needed a good knowledge of the language and /or a prior knowledge of what was written; so I wonder who added the vowels to the script, was it the Jews or the catholic Church? Luckily God provides wisdom and understanding to some.

I am surprised, climate change is a hoax, it maybe more diabolical than hoax. The scientific community has proven itself unreliable ideologically and scientifically politically dishonest. I would not use "chaos", although I see it present, I prefer anarchy, the purposeful destruction of Law and governments and national ways for the purpose of setting up the anti-Christ and his Global government. Our weather and climate is determined by the sun, it is the sun that gives us ice ages or what else. Presumably God controls the sun.





ly

 

[Diamond72]

it is the sun that gives us ice ages or what else.

The planets affect each other so there is planet wobble. The math is exact but complicated and that makes it difficult. Also the greenhouse effect is a factor. This has a lot to do with the windows of heaven and the floodgates of the earth.

My son was working on quality control for Wolfspeed that builds nano resisters. So he knows a little bit about high and low pressure. When the weather man talks about a high and low pressure that means the temp is going to get hotter or colder.

climate change is a hoax

Hoax or not the permafrost is melting and causing problems for people. In Alaska they had to move a whole village because of the ice and permafrost melting.

 

[Douggg]

I only quote what I am commenting on. If I quote your whole post people would not know what I am commenting on.

One of the techniques I sometime use is that I highlight (in red) the particular portion of the other poster's content... like I did to yours above.

 

[Douggg]

.....never mind... I went off topic in this post...so I deleted the content.