Is modern secular society headed down the path to Sodom and Gomorrah.

[Whyayeman]

Therefore you lack understanding of human thinking and behaviour as to what role beliefs play and how they are formulated. Perhaps some info on this may help. I think the following link sums up the current state of affairs regarding Woke or the new secular religion or identity politics and PC whatever you want to call it.

BUt its a reality and can be traced through academia into institutions and mainstream society and backs by the State through increasing laws, policies and funding for installing DEI programs which form the bible of Woksim.

The link is good as it explains the mechanisms behind how Woke is replacing Christianity and spiritual meaning as a metaphysical and moral belief that has filled the void left by God Christian beliefs.

Wokeness and the New Religious Establishment
For the woke, identity is the source of divinity. Transgender identity — in which one's inward gender identity is said to differ from one's bodily sex — offers a useful snapshot of woke metaphysics. Wokeness is grounded in a Gnostic understanding of the world, which distinguishes between appearances accessible to everyone and the reality perceptible only to a certain few. To join the community of those who recognize this ultimate reality, one must undergo a kind of "awakening" — or, in identity-politics parlance, "become woke."

Nature abhors a vacuum, as does the human soul. As Ross Douthat documents in his book Bad Religion, attempts to scrub religion from American public life have failed; alternative belief systems have rushed in to fill the void. The newest and perhaps most potent of these alternatives is wokeness, which is fast becoming the dominant faith of the elite in the political, corporate, and academic worlds — and, in turn, of American public life.

With the decline of the old Judeo-Christian consensus, the woke have sought to establish themselves in the spaces left open by the success of secularization. But as their faith coalesces and their successes build, they are beginning to grow out of those spaces. It seems that at the very moment of its overcoming, the struggle is struggling with itself.
Wokeness and the New Religious Establishment

The tract you quote above tells me more about you than about 'woke'. As evidence to support your contention it is useless because it is biassed - a sectarian gossip sheet designed not to inform but to play on the prejudices of its readers.

You don't seriously expect me to be persuaded by that stuff, surely?

 

[stevevw]

You're using words like "infiltrate".

Allow me to provide a different perspective: People are becoming aware of how there are some deeply embedded problems in the general narratives of how we have spoken about one another, how we have treated one another. At a systematic level.

It's one thing to say "Racism bad", it's another thing altogether to ask, how did we get here where this thing called "racism" exists. And it's not as simple as "people have always been prejudiced". Well, yeah, there have always been prejudices, but why these specific prejudices. Where did this idea of "white" come from? It didn't exist a thousand years ago, if you went back a thousand years in Europe you won't find "whiteness", you won't find these clear boundaries of "race". People recognized differences, an Ethiopian was dark, for example, and the term "black" could be used. People recognized that there were tribes, nations (ethnicities), and the term "race" could be applied to ethnic groups. But when we look at the history of race and racism, in the context of American history, or in the broader context of Western European history going back a few centuries, we see emerging ideas, emerging concepts. The ways in which dominant peoples excused suppressing, dominating, and subjugating other peoples.

Why, for example, in spite of the fact that the Catholic Church, Catholic organizations (e.g. the Jesuits), condemn mistreatment of indigenous people and advocate for indigenous rights; and even the Spanish crown (for example) employing laws which condemned colonial mistreatment of indigenous people--and yet we still have that subjugation of indigenous people by colonizers? And how have ideas and systems, beginning with colonization, which mistreated native populations, resulted in the shaping of the history of colonial powers.

How did America, beginning as a series of British colonies, come to behave the way it did--at a hierarchal and systematic way--in the mistreatment of certain persons? Why did post-colonial America find forced removal of native populations, and even the systematic murder (genocide) of indigenous American peoples something excusable?

I agree that there have been injustices and descrimination and use of power over people to deny their rights. We have to acknowledge that. But to see our entire history as Wokist do where everything comes down to oppressors and victims is the problem. Its the ideological underpinning that lurks behind the nobel cause that is brought in that is the problem.

You can tell the unreality of the ideology behind the nobel causes by how they pan out in society. For example Woke identity politics divides society into identity groups and highlights their differences. Fundementally that is in complete contradiction to equality and non descrimination by valuing and judging people by their differences. This pits groups against each other and causes conflicts which leads to anoemosity between people.

As we have been seeing different identity groups whether by race, ethnics, gender, sex or religion are attacking each other to the point of violents. The extreme expression of this ideology is how antisemetism which has resurfaced in modern democratic societies.

Any society that allows antisemetism to fester in our institutions and society is not in good health as far as the Western Truths we use to uphold like Dr King adovacted that a person was judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin, or sex, gender or the many other identies people have.

That's where "Critical Race Theory" comes into play: Studying the history, taking a critical look, at the how these things came to be, how it happened. How has "whiteness" as an idea evolved, in the colonial and post-colonial world. Why did, for example, Americans in the mid-19th century regard Irish Catholics (for example) as a racially inferior group. The Irish were not "white", even though, obviously, indigenous Irish people are fair-skinned--it was a lot more than just skin color. So a critical analysis of "whiteness" a critical analysis of "race", and how these--and many other things--have emerged, developed, and affected society not just at the bottom, but at systemic levels are valuable questions to pursue.

I don't know, but all this Critical analysis has resulted in an over extenuating and obsessing with every possible difference a human can have. The more intersecting identities of victimhood you have the more 'Clean" a person is. The more identities a person has with the percieved 'Unclean' identities of oppression such as being White and Male or having as a Colonialist or Slave holder the more you are unworthy.

Like I said this is dividing society and pitting people against each other. The opposite of equality. The ideas of Critical theories are dangerous and have no basis in fact or reality. They are based on certain assumpotions like Social Construction Theory where everything including reality itself is a social construction. And Postmodernism thinking where reality is self referential.

The idea of Critical thinking is different to the Critical Theories underpinning Woke or Identity politics. Critical thinking doesn't make any narrow assumptions about the world and infact looks at itself for bias. But as Woke ideology is like religious belief it sneaks in the assumptions about human nature and how the world and reality is ordered.

Take the Equity in DEI polcies. Equity as opposed to equality is about focuing on certain identity groups over others and priviledging them to equal society. THis is based on the assumption that all differences between humans is socially constructed and any difference is due to oppression. That is actually descrmination and promoting the very wrongs such as 'priviledge' that Woke condemns. It also destroys the long held Western truth principle of merit, competition, sacrifice and working hard to earn things.

THis is just a small example of how the new Woke or Identity politics of religion has infiltrated into society. The link I posted earlier may help understand how Identity politics works. Postmodermism also plays a role as this undermines that there are any Mata Truths or objective reality and makes 'Self' and identity as the determination of truth and how the world is.

If we want to understand why things are as they are, and if we say "being racist is bad", well why is there is this "racism" thing in the first place? Why is there this way of talking about "white people" as opposed to "black people" a thing? How have these concepts of "white" and "black" played a role in the history of the United States? What assumptions have we, because we are living in the culture, simply grown up with uncritically, just accepting as "the way things are".

I would imagine to a certain extent humans look at differences by nature. If we formed tribes even before any understanding of differences in a social sense then its instinctual to some extent. Maybe differences were more exentuated due to differ cultures mixing. Obviously if a bunch of white people come in ships to natives thats a pretty big culture shoch for all that brings attention to differences.

Times that by the many times people have mixed and we have a lot of differences and if people wanted to focus on those differences then it would exentuate them thus increasing the risk of exploiting or denegrating those differences. I would imagine thats human nature as well.

But all I know is that focusing and highlighting differences as Woke and identity politics do is not the answer as it actually makes it worse to the point of antisemetism. We need something that values humans just as humans regardless of their identity, the very opposite of Woke.

Yes we did some bad stuff in the past and we need to acknowledge this and do better. But the solution Woke and identity politics offers is not going to lead to some DEI Utopia but a dividied people tearing each other apart.

And then, ask yourself, why are there so many people mad at asking these questions? Why is there such a concerted effort to stomp out honest inquiry, to stomp out the asking of questions, why is the pursuit of critical historical analysis something being so deeply opposed by certain people in power?

Because Critical analysis is the Trojan Horse to sneak the ideology in. Nobel reasons are used to enforce the ideology. Its good to ask questions and critically analyse things, human behaviour, how societies organize themselves as to being fair and just. Thats a fundemental truth thanks to western ideas.

But that is not what is happening with Critical theories like Race, Queer and Social Justice. We can find evdience of how these ideas actually cause injustice and inequality.

Now ask yourself this, if "woke" means becoming aware of the deep and systematic problems of racial injustice; and if "woke" people want to dig deeper, below the surface, to understand history and seeking a critical analysis of this--why are these same people so opposed to genuine, sincere inquiry and the pursuit of understanding wanting to demean, attack, ridicule, and demonize "woke"?

I think the average person perhaps the silent majority do use critical and commonsense thinking. They know when somethings not fair or unjust regardless of identity. But what they don't like is when their identity attacked for just being themselves. They are not unconsciously racist and are against racism and treating others badly.

Woke has created an industry out of doing peoples thinking by injecting their own ideology onto people. Their assumptions about human nature and the world. That everything comes down to oppressor and victim mentaly and a persons worth if the differences they identify with.

What do you think might be their motivations? What could people in power gain by silencing criticism and inquiry? And if you ask yourself that, and if you are honest with yourself about that, then you'll probably end up becoming "woke" yourself.

I think modern society being so PC over the last couple of decades has had so many inquiries, studies, research, conversations on breaking down the reasons who humans and societies do what they do that we are very 'WOKE' as in the old meaning of the word. Certainly those in positions of influence.

But that seems to be the problem. Like I said the new version of WOKE has been coopted into a different things. Whatever the thinking behind todays Woke is what it does well is take Nobel ideas like the original Woke, or in the name of Protection and uses that to attached the ideology to. That is just like the church use to do in oppressing people while preaching.

Because when people in power have their power challenged the best way to deflect criticism and investigation is to point the finger at a group, and say "those people are dangerous". And if you think that's a far-fetched idea, then perhaps you should spend more time reading history books.

The problem is this is also exactly what those are doing who are accusing other groups of pointing the finger. ie certain identity groups are pointed out as being 'unclean' trouble makers, oppressors, the bad skins who must be exposed and stopped even destroyed. We seen this with the tearing down of all the icons of the West with statuse of Washington, and other important figures.

So it seems Wokist see themselves in the very people they call oppressors which is not the best way to overcome oppression by doing the same thing as the oppressors.

Want to know a famous example of that happening? Just look at the first state-sponsored persecution of Christians under Nero. That's exactly what happened. Nero was hated, despised, how did Nero deflect? He pointed the finger at a new minority religious group: Christians. When Rome burned, he blamed the fire on us; and then he had us put to death, he had us hung on crosses, he had the Apostle Paul beheaded, he had St. Peter crucified, he took us and covered us in tar and lit us on fire to light his imperial gardens.

This sounds very similar to the antisemetism that has brewed by due to Wokism and identity politics. Several States are sponoring Hamas who represent a minority group against another minority group. This has more or less sent the message that its ok to descriminate and attack Jews all over the world and where antisemetism has resurfaced after we fought so hard to rid ourselves of it.

So wherever policies the Critical theories that underpin Woke and IP its not working. Its actually creating the very world they claim to want to prevent.

More recently, just look at the Nazis, and all the different people they scapegoated, especially the Jews, resulting in the extermination of over 6 million Jewish men, women, and children. But also who else did they scapegoat? Communists, socialists, Roma, the handicapped, homosexuals, religious minorities, and anyone who dared to question and speak out against them.

Honestly I did not see this part of your post when I spoke of the Jews above. Therefore if antisemetism has resurfaced and is even being promoted in this new secular religion of Woke what does that tell you about what Woke and identity politics is actually about. You can tell the merits of an idea or belief by the fruits it bears and Woke is not bearing good fruits but division, conflict and chaos.

And if you think, "Well, America isn't Nero's Rome or Hitler's Germany", then you're not paying attention to history, nor learning the lessons thereof. Because "It can't happen here" is ignorance of the dangers which we have seen happen again and again.

Wait a minute doesn't the US have a ruling party that supports all the ideas of Wokism and identity politics. They even use Critical theory to underpin their policies and Laws. But like I said thats the very problem. The same thing is happening in Canada, Britain, Australia and NZ to a lesser extent.

Want to understand "woke", then understand this: It could happen here, unless we are vigilant. Otherwise, "When fascism comes to America it will come carrying the flag and a cross".

Where is here. I'm in Australia. What I find fascinating is how two people can have completely opposing views and beliefs while both believing they they facts and truth. This shows how polaring this issue is that its producing polar opposite views. Usually there would be a large common ground of agreement in politics and culture.

So in saying that what you think could happen ehere wherever that is I think the opposite has already happened in most western nations. Which is Woke and Identity politics and the long march from the institutions into society has arrived.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hans Blaster]

Therefore you lack understanding of human thinking and behaviour as to what role beliefs play and how they are formulated. Perhaps some info on this may help. I think the following link sums up the current state of affairs regarding Woke or the new secular religion or identity politics and PC whatever you want to call it.

Maybe, just maybe, we don't see sins or demons having anything to do with this, and maybe, just maybe, we don't think Jesus is the cure for what ails us. (Nor, does it seem that we see any secular religion arising. As I've stated before whatever you'se guys thinks is "woke" has little connection to the behavior and beliefs of the "secular left".)

I'm all for people discussing and discussing often what is right or wrong and why including what is fair.

 

[stevevw]

Path?
We are there lock, stock, and barrel. What did people do in S&G that they are not doing here and now?
Go home, lock your doors, stock up on food, and go from single barrel to double. It's going crazy out there, and somehow, the normal and nature are the bad guys.

Lol be careful people may think your a conspiracy theorist.

 

[stevevw]

The reason the Right has taken up the use of "woke" as a political pejorative is because of what you have said.

Left wing activists themselves appropriated the term "woke" and began using it to describe themselves and their own activities. And that is how the Right heard of the term and the circumstances it was being used.

Black women are still rather annoyed that Left wing activists also appropriated "cancel" and "me too" from them and began using them in far broader ways and with somewhat different meanings.

Yes and its not just the idea of Woke being redefine or morphed. Just about everything has new meaning according to Woke and identity ideology. Word and language has been hijacked where people get in trouble even sacked for saying and thinking the wrong things.

These unWoke transgressions are equivalent to sinning. People are cancelled out, their careers, livlihoods just like people were ostracized by the church. It gets ruthless and that is why we are seeing more conflict between groups. People to scared to speak their mind for wrong speak or think.

This is Totalitarianism in the form of State religion imposed on society undermine the hard fought for and long held truths that the west came to know through experience and is taking us back to a modern day form of tribalism.

 

[BCP1928]

I never said it was and in fact said its like a religious belief. So in that sense they are not atheist as far as metaphysical beliefs about human nature and nature itself and based on this how we should order society as with DEI policies which form the catechism and identity acting as the new dualism aspect of beyond the body and phsycial world.

Identity cannot be measured in objective terms just like the spiritual aspect of humans thats behind religion. Yet identity is given special status and powers which can determine reality. Subjective feelings and beliefs about self in the world trump objective reality as the new measure of reality.

Very similar to how the Mind/Body Dualism works except instead of the soul or spiritual aspect that is beyond the body it is identity which is given the same qualities.

You did say it was "replacing God" did you not? Or maybe you only meant that it was replacing your God

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Good old drugs, sex, and rock and roll. It hasn't killed us yet and has become a part of American culture.

It didn't kill them either.

Until it did.

 

[stevevw]

Maybe, just maybe, we don't see sins or demons having anything to do with this,

Um the article I link does make a good case for at least it having similar ideas like sin in that a person who is regarded as Woke today is classed as 'Clean' as opposed to non Woke being 'Unclean'. How the unclean identities must do penance for the wrongs they have done in the past even though none of the current generation were responsible. But mere association makes you a sinner needing to repent.

If you understand the metaphysics involved, in making some identities (victims) godlike, divine and pure that society must pay homage to and how identity itself is seen to be divine or a soul like apect beyond the material world that determines reality then you can begin to see the many similarities. Understanding how naturally humans have this void that needs to be filled with some metaphysical idea about morality and meaning.

and maybe, just maybe, we don't think Jesus is the cure for what ails us.

My point wasn't about Jesus. Other religions talk about the same ideas. But more the point that one way or another humans have a spiritual side that needs some basis of belief in beyond the material world.

Whether thats in gods, human gods, idols, money and materialism as god which creates Utopia on earth, New age spiritualism, Humanism, or any ideological belief about how the world is and whats beyond to give meaning and morals.

(Nor, does it seem that we see any secular religion arising. As I've stated before whatever you'se guys thinks is "woke" has little connection to the behavior and beliefs of the "secular left".)

I agree its not just the secular left who are mostly leaning towards Woke but even a growing number on the Right including within some churches. Thats how Woke works, it hides its ideology behind Nobel causes and looks good on the outside where it appeals to peoples empathetic senses.

But when we peel the layers back we find at its core an unsupported ideological belief based on certain assumptions about people, the world and reality. Primarily based in the Critical theories, Social Constructionism with a POst MOdernist twist.

I'm all for people discussing and discussing often what is right or wrong and why including what is fair.

Yes so am I but it seems the Woke identity thinking won't allow this and will cancel any voice that doesn't fit their thinking. As I mentioned this new religion threatens the long held and hard fought for truth principles the West come to know like Free speech.

 

[stevevw]

You did say it was "replacing God" did you not? Or maybe you only meant that it was replacing your God

I have tried to be careful not to refer to my God. But will sometime just put God instead of god. But I qualify this because I am talking about the natural need or inclination that humans believe in divine concepts, teleology, the soul, life after death or at least some sort of Mind surviving death. Even many atheists believe in some sort of soul or mind that may go on after death.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Um the article I link does make a good case for at least it having similar ideas like sin in that a person who is regarded as Woke today is classed as 'Clean' as opposed to non Woke being 'Unclean'. How the unclean identities must do penance for the wrongs they have done in the past even though none of the current generation were responsible. But mere association makes you a sinner needing to repent.

Considering that your source is a conservative political magazine, I don't think I'll put any weight into their analysis.

If you understand the metaphysics involved, in making some identities (victims) godlike, divine and pure that society must pay homage to and how identity itself is seen to be divine or a soul like apect beyond the material world that determines reality then you can begin to see the many similarities. Understanding how naturally humans have this void that needs to be filled with some metaphysical idea about morality and meaning.

How many times do I have to tell you I don't believe in "meta"physics? (Like there could be anything "beyond" physics. Sheesh.)

 

[stevevw]

Weird metaphysical beliefs do not constitute a form of theism. Being "woke" or not doesn't change anyone's religious status.

What do you mean by religious status. Being Woke is regarded as being a 'clean or pure' identity and being 'unclean' a transgressor. It certainly has all the hallmarks of religion just without the trappings.

But even this seems to be coming into play according to the article I linked and how it shows that ceremonies and rituals are actually being incorporated as part of being Woke and honoring the 'clean and pure' identity gods.

 

[stevevw]

Considering that your source is a conservative political magazine, I don't think I'll put any weight into their analysis.

I am not sure. I checked and it said it was an independent think tank on policy. But regardless what that article says has been said by other good sources in one way or another. I mean did you really read it as it does back up what it says with good arguments, logic and evidence such as the theories behind the thinking.

Many authors have spoken about the Long March into the Institutions by academics of the Critical theories and thinking that underpin Woke and identity politics today. I think it makes good sense in what we are observing today. We are actually seeing the evidence of the Woke and identity ideology in real life examples as a result.

Thats the test results of the ideology how it actually effects the order of things, society and reality and at the moment we are seeing its unreality with the many conflicts between identity groups polarising and becoming more radical even to the point of siding with terrorists because they are percieved as victims and wanting to commit genocide on the Jews. Just like most religions have done.

How many times do I have to tell you I don't believe in "meta"physics? (Like there could be anything "beyond" physics. Sheesh.)

Sorry I forgot. Ok you don't but the majority do and it doesn't change the fact that a belief in some sort of metaphysical aspect to reality is natural and inherent in all humans.

 

[RDKirk]

Can you provide examples of this?

The basics:

Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center by bell hooks

The Feminine Mystique by Betty Friedan

 

[Hans Blaster]

What do you mean by religious status. Being Woke is regarded as be a 'clean or pure' identity and being 'unclean' a transgressor. It certainly has all the hallmarks of religion just without the trappings.

"Woke" (what ever that is) is not limited to any particular religion or excluded from any. Calling someone "woke" doesn't alter what there actual religion (or lack of religion) is. There are "woke" and non-"woke" Christians, Jews, atheists, Muslims, Hindus, pagans, etc.

But even this seems to be coming into play according to the article I linked and how it shows that ceremonies and rituals are actually being incorporated as part of being Woke and honoring the 'clean and pure' identity gods.

I'm going to say something similar to what I said in the science section about "faith".

All of this casting certain things you see as a competitor or whatever it is to Christianity as "religion" doesn't do your or anyone else's religion any good. (This goes for the reactionary social commentators you quote, but they are not on this board to here me. Oh well.) If all sorts of things that are not like traditional religions are getting called religions then why are proper religions "special"? If religion is not in a different category then how is it different than an of the "pseudoreligions" that keep getting "promoted" like fandoms, is religion anything more than just a fandom? Yankee's fan, Jesus fan, is it any different, or do you think it should be different. (I do.)

 

[stevevw]

"Woke" (what ever that is) is not limited to any particular religion or excluded from any. Calling someone "woke" doesn't alter what there actual religion (or lack of religion) is. There are "woke" and non-"woke" Christians, Jews, atheists, Muslims, Hindus, pagans, etc.

That doesn't mean the people within those religions who believe in Woke are not also believing in it like a religion. They have just incorporated aspects of Woke beliefs into their paricular religious beliefs.

But they are different to the mainstream believers. What you will notice about religions that do support Woke like Christians or any religion is that they will be in contradiction of their own religion such as supporting SSM marriage or abortion or female priests ect. They are not exactly the same and differ on important core beliefs.

I don't think Muslims can be Woke as it requires supporting minorities like Gays and fundementally Muslims are anti Gay. I mean we see protestors who support LGBTIQ+ community who are aligning their Woke beliefs and support with terrorist groups like Hamas in a weird relationship because they percieve Hamas as a victim group according to Woke. But if Gays went to actually live in a Muslim culture they would not last long.

I'm going to say something similar to what I said in the science section about "faith".

All of this casting certain things you see as a competitor or whatever it is to Christianity as "religion" doesn't do your or anyone else's religion any good. (This goes for the reactionary social commentators you quote, but they are not on this board to here me. Oh well.) If all sorts of things that are not like traditional religions are getting called religions then why are proper religions "special"? If religion is not in a different category then how is it different than an of the "pseudoreligions" that keep getting "promoted" like fandoms, is religion anything more than just a fandom? Yankee's fan, Jesus fan, is it any different, or do you think it should be different. (I do.)

Religion itself is not special. The behaviour associated with religion is a natural human tendency. You can be religious about many things like money, material possessions, work or sports or a hobby. Its the behaviour of performing certain acts religiously. The religious part of traditional religions is just the ceremony or organisation of people who believe in the same thing according to their culture.

You could say Aussies are religious about their sports following it religiously and making sports stars gods. Or the Hollywood industry is religious in its ceremonies and god like actors who are worshipped where obsession with celebs life becomes religious. A person becomes religious about their work putting it above all else and observing all the rituals and performances that go with that.

How sport became the new religion – a 200-year story of society’s ‘great conversion’

How sport became the new religion – a 200-year story of society’s ‘great conversion’

Where once religion was a dominant force in society, now many more people reserve their faith for sport. But could the church use this to build a new following?

theconversation.com

Workism Is Making Americans Miserable
The decline of traditional faith in America has coincided with an explosion of new atheisms. Some people worship beauty, some worship political identities, and others worship their children. But everybody worships something. And workism is among the most potent of the new religions competing for congregants.

What is workism? It is the belief that work is not only necessary to economic production, but also the centerpiece of one’s identity and life’s purpose; and the belief that any policy to promote human welfare must always encourage more work.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-workism-making-americans-miserable/583441/

When work becomes your religion

When work becomes your religion, nothing else matters - Berkeley News

UC Berkeley expert on religion examines the role that spirituality plays in productivity in Silicon Valley

news.berkeley.edu

I'm not casting anything. I am merely trying to explain how religious belief and belief in metaphysical ideas and spirituality is a normal and universal inclination and that this will be expressed in some way whether its through traditional religion or not.

Your the one making it about competing religions because thats what you assume based on your assumptions and belief that religious people and Christians think a certain way stereotyping them.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I don't think Muslims can be Woke as it requires supporting minorities like Gays and fundementally Muslims are anti Gay. I mean we see protestors who support LGBTIQ+ community who are aligning their Woke beliefs and support with terrorist groups like Hamas in a weird relationship because they percieve Hamas as a victim group according to Woke. But if Gays went to actually live in a Muslim culture they would not last long.

See, it's saying stuff like this that tells a lot of us that you really don't have a clue what you're talking about.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[stevevw]

The basics:

Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center by bell hooks

The Feminine Mystique by Betty Friedan

OK so I am not quite understanding your point. Are you saying ideas like Feminism, Marxism, Queer or Race theorys are ideologies that are inherently destructful or that they are a good idea to help make a better, just and equal society. Or that aspects of Feminism are ok but the modern incarnation is harming society.

 

[BCP1928]

The basics:

Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center by bell hooks

The Feminine Mystique by Betty Friedan

Dated, and not necessarily representative of the feminist movement as a whole.

 

[BCP1928]

That doesn't mean the people within those religions who believe in Woke are not also believing in it like a religion. They have just incorporated aspects of Woke beliefs into their particular religious beliefs.

And some of the things you call "woke" were incorporated into their beliefs from the get-go.

But they are different to the mainstream believers. What you will notice about religions that do support Woke like Christians or any religion is that they will be in contradiction of their own religion such as supporting SSM marriage or abortion or female priests ect. They are not exactly the same and differ on important core beliefs.

You really are an arrogant pup, telling other Christians what is contradictory about their beliefs. You don't seem to know any more about the beliefs of other Christians outside your own narrow sect than a pig knows about a clean shirt.

I don't think Muslims can be Woke as it requires supporting minorities like Gays and fundementally Muslims are anti Gay. I mean we see protestors who support LGBTIQ+ community who are aligning their Woke beliefs and support with terrorist groups like Hamas in a weird relationship because they percieve Hamas as a victim group according to Woke. But if Gays went to actually live in a Muslim culture they would not last long.

Now you're telling Muslims what they must believe? And repeating your slanderous falsehoods and insinuations about who is antisemitic and why?

Why are you doing this? Why are you writing page after page of this ignorant and offensive stuff? You make a crusade against "Western Christian Culture" sound like a really good idea. Yours is imaginary, but we could start a real one--and it would be easy to recruit Christians to join us.

 

[stevevw]

And some of the things you call "woke" were incorporated into their beliefs from the get-go.

Like I said the the New Woke religion is using Nobel causes as a front for sneaking in their ideology. They say its all about protecting and standing up for minority rights which sounds nobel and everyone would agree thus getting people on side. But then don't tell anyone how they actually go about achieving this with unscientific Critical theories and ideology.

Understanding Woke Tactics pt.1: Sneaking in bad ideas.
How the woke use language games to hide the parts of their worldview and ideology they know people will reject.
A woke person might say something like "we are trying to study racism so we can end it." That might sound pretty good. The problem is that the woke person will leave out the fact that they are using methods from postmodernism and Critical Theory when they do their studying.

Understanding Woke Tactics pt.1: Sneaking in bad ideas.

How the woke use language games to hide the parts of their worldview and ideology they know people will reject.

wokaldistance.substack.com

The ideology actually undermines those true Woke principles that align with Enlightened thinking, Rule of Law, Freedom of speech and the value of the Individual created in Gods image withe inalienable rights rather than the value of group identity above all else.

You really are an arrogant pup, telling other Christians what is contradictory about their beliefs. You don't seem to know any more about the beliefs of other Christians outside your own narrow sect than a pig knows about a clean shirt.

Gee what provoked that. How am I telling Christians what to believe or that their beliefs are contradictory to Christianity when what I am saying is Christian and Biblical teachings. 99% of Christians are opposed to SSM, practicing homosexuality, Trans and Gender ideology, abortion, adultery, sex outside marriage, Drag Queen Story time, deregulating drugs, that a man can become a women, promoting Woke sex education in schools, promoting Woke in schools altogether. All I am doing is expressing the Christian position about Woke ideology.

So how am I doing their thinking when it is CHristian teachings that are doing the thinking and all CHristian more or less agree with these teachings. Whereas Woke allows all those things as it believes in not restricting people to express their identities and live their life however they feel. Christians tend to be more conservative about that stuff because Gods laws and morals have boundaries.

Now you're telling Muslims what they must believe?

How is saying that Muslims don't allow Gays in their nations and will persecute them even killing them. THis is what happens to Gays in Muslim nations. I'm not doing their thinking I am showing their actions speak louder than words or thinking. Being Woke and supporting Gay Rights in Muslim countries would not get off the ground. Thats a simple fact.

Thats why its strange that LGBTIQ+ groups are coming out and aligning with Hamas who would wipe them out if they were under Hamas rule. But it shows that they would rather side with Hamas than Isreal because they percieve Isreal as oppressors even though Isreal has been one of the most oppressed people in history and its actually Hamas who are doing the oppressing through terror.

And repeating your slanderous falsehoods and insinuations about who is antisemitic and why?

How is it slanderous when its fact. All I am doing is stating the facts and the truth.

A new wave of antisemitism threatens to rock an already unstable world
Outbursts of antisemitism have often been harbingers of societies in deep trouble and omens that extremism and violence are imminent.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/31/politics/antisemitism-unstable-world-analysis/index.html

Antisemitic incidents on rise across the U.S., report finds

Antisemitic incidents on rise across the U.S., report finds

Researchers say that antisemitism rose in the U.S. in 2022 and shows little sign of abating worldwide as political radicals have gained mainstream popularity.

www.pbs.org

Antisemitism has moved from the right to the left in the US − and falls back on long-standing stereotypes

Antisemitism has moved from the right to the left in the US − and falls back on long-standing stereotypes

Antisemitism in the US is growing – and that growth appears to be related to the escalation of the conflict between Israel and Hamas. It also reflects a different political ideology than in the past.

theconversation.com

New research shows widespread antisemitism in universities and online

'Scared to be publicly Jewish': Students facing widespread antisemitism at university

New research shows the disturbing levels of antisemitism faced by young people, both on university campuses and online.

www.abc.net.au

Over 70% of US Jewish college students exposed to antisemitism this school year, survey finds

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/over-70-us-jewish-college-students-exposed-antisemitism-this-school-year-survey-2023-11-29/

Even the Woke ideology has penetrated the UN with recent findings of their own workers promoting anti-semetism and supporting Hamas. So If the UN can fall for the ideology then so can anyone including Christian Churches.

UNRWA is worse than you think
For far too long this UN agency has provided moral cover to the anti-Semitic haters of Israel.
United Nations’ Bigotry Towards Israel: UNRWA Anti-semitism Poisons Palestinian Youth

United Nations' Bigotry Towards Israel: UNRWA Anti-semitism Poisons Palestinian Youth

...

www.fdd.org

Any society that has this much hatred and rising anti-semetism has deep problems. United we stand and divided we fall.

Why are you doing this? Why are you writing page after page of this ignorant and offensive stuff?

Because its not offensive, not ignorant and is the truth. Its important to tell the truth, to know the facts of the matter and not the ideology or unreal assumptions.

You make a crusade against "Western Christian Culture" sound like a really good idea. Yours is imaginary, but we could start a real one--and it would be easy to recruit Christians to join us.

And theres one of the assumptions that you think I am making a case against Western Christianity when I am actually defending it. Well at least the core truth principles we came to know that are being threatened by Woke. And its not imaginary but is supported by most Christians and conservatives and even many on the Left.