Israel-Hamas Thread II

[rjs330]

Far more Palestinians have been killed by Israelis than vice versa since 1948.

So? The amount once side loses in comparison to the other is not a basis to decide which side is the justified side. You may actually be the just side who kills more of the enemy than the unjust side.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Yes, this was said prior to the hearings and before seeing the evidence that South Africa has to prove its case.

I wasn't aware that South Africa had a presence in gaza.......learn sump'n new ever day......

 

[Aussie Pete]

I don't agree with the US government's unconditional backing of Israel in this conflict.

As I ask every critic of Israel and their supporters, what would you do to stop the war and ensure peace in Gaza and Israel? The "Palestinians" (who do not exist as a nation or a race) won't accept the right of Israel to exist. Israel will not put up with constant attacks any longer. I don't know what nation would. The UN is demonstrably useless and obviously biased against Israel. Peacekeepers? A lot of good they are doing in Lebanon, I don't think. Gazans voted in Hamas. Hamas has been attacking Israel since around 2006. Israel's mistake was to try and limit Hamas' attacks. They should have buried Hamas the first time Hamas assaulted Israel.

 

[JosephZ]

As I ask every critic of Israel and their supporters, what would you do to stop the war and ensure peace in Gaza and Israel? The "Palestinians" (who do not exist as a nation or a race) won't accept the right of Israel to exist.

Israel recognizing Palestine as a state and the Palestinians as a people would be a good start.

 

[ralliann]

Israel recognizing Palestine as a state and the Palestinians as a people would be a good start.

They have done that, it was Rejected. Do you remember Arafat? They refused. You are defending Hamas in this statement.

 

[ralliann]

I wasn't aware that South Africa had a presence in gaza.......learn sump'n new ever day......

It is false equivalence from the get go anyway. Africans are native to the land, "Palestinians" are not. They are Arabic.

 

[JosephZ]

They have done that, it was Rejected. Do you remember Arafat? They refused.

Israel has never recognized an independent state of Palestine.

You are defending Hamas in this statement.

That statement in no way defends Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist group

I've described the acts of Hamas as being horrific and described them as being evil and barbaric in another thread. In this thread I have made the following statements:

Hamas must be destroyed

The terrorists must be hunted down, held accountable for their actions, and the terrorist group eliminated.

Hamas is clearly an enemy to both Israel and the Palestinian people and must be eradicated.

The terrorists and their leadership must be held accountable for their actions, and the terrorist group must be neutralized.

 

[ralliann]

Israel has never recognized an independent state of Palestine.



That statement in no way defends Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist group

Then demand with the rest of us they cease fire. You cannot deal with terrorists, which goes to your first statement. They have never been recognized because they refused every offer. They wanted "their land " back. A farce in itself. It was no more their land than it was anyone elses, especially Israel. That land has been "occupied" by many throughout the centuries. It did not stop being occupied because some Arabs settled in the land that was occupied. They have refused all deals due to that fallacy. It is still going on today, and those who defend their cause are simply agreeing, that Arabs settling in occupied land makes it their land.

I've described the acts of Hamas as being horrific and described them as being evil and barbaric in another thread. In this thread I have made the following statements:

Then demand they cease fire?

 

[JosephZ]

Then demand with the rest of us they cease fire.

Then demand they cease fire?

What's the point? Calling on a terrorist group like Hamas to agree to a cease fire is meaningless. After all, they have already vowed to repeat attacks on Israel "again and again" until it’s destroyed. A cease fire means nothing if they're just going to break it at some point in the future anyway.

 

[Vanellus]

Yes, as I and others have explained before, the jihadists will surround themselves with women and children just to advance their cause, to kill all Jews and Christians. They hope you and others will use the numbers killed to plead their case. You just don't see them show any remorse for who they kill, their own or others. All for the cause. Israel is geographically close so Israel will come first, but Israel is the little Satan to them and the United States the Big Satan. They have begged the U.S. for monetary assistance for their poor people, and yet virtually all the assistance provided goes into killing "non-believers." It is worthwhile to listen to what they tell their people rather than what their diplomats say, here is a short video of the advisor to the Palestinian president:

Advisor To Palestinian President Mahmoud Habbash In West Bank Friday Sermon: 'Criminal America Is Responsible For Every Single Drop Of Palestinian Blood Shed In Gaza—They Will Pay for This'

Mahmoud Habbash, advisor to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, said in a December 29, 2023, Friday sermon, delivered i...

www.memri.org

Yet so many on the American hard left support them. What do you think they would do with American homosexuals and trans and for that matter all of the American women?

High on prejudice low on evidence.

 

[ralliann]

What's the point? Calling on a terrorist group like Hamas to agree to a cease fire is meaningless.

So blame it on Israel instead? Israel is in control under above ground. Palestinians don't have any need to fear them. Why are they staying?

After all, they have already vowed to repeat attacks on Israel "again and again" until it’s destroyed. A cease fire means nothing if they're just going to break it at some point in the future anyway.

Right. So why are Palestinians staying there. Call it what it is.

 

[Philip_B]

Right. So why are Palestinians staying there. Call it what it is.

Because it is their homeland too, they are the descendants of the British Palestinian Mandated Territory.

So, is citizenship a right? Does not every human being have a right to belong in some place on the planet?

 

[Bradskii]

So blame it on Israel instead? Israel is in control under above ground. Palestinians don't have any need to fear them. Why are they staying?

Quite a lot of them can't. Because they're dead.

 

[JosephZ]

Why are they staying?

So why are Palestinians staying there.

They stay because it is their home.

“We are all Palestinians. We live in the same city, with the same suffering. We are all under siege and are all the same, the Christians are suffering like any other Gaza people, this is our land and we will not leave. Can you imagine that someone called you and forced you and your family to go to another place? We will stay." -- Kamel Ayyad, Spokesperson for the Church of Saint Porphyrius in Gaza City

"I came back to my house in Gaza because if I want to die, let me die in my home," Um Asad Al Shamali

 

[ralliann]

Because it is their homeland too, they are the descendants of the British Palestinian Mandated Territory.

And what happened? The Arabs began a war to rid itself of Israel.... Israel won the war. As I said that land has always been occupied. Why all of a sudden, occupiers, makes a claim to the land? They were there by the very same means. So, no, it was not their homeland, it was now Israels homeland. They got it through war, Israel got it through war. Simple
The land has always been occupied by war. Who were the British to give land that didn't belong to them? Same with the
Palestinians.

So, is citizenship a right? Does not every human being have a right to belong in some place on the planet?

Read the above.
Again, you are making Hamas's argument for them, as well as explaining the mindset why Palestinians choose to stay.

 

[ralliann]

They stay because it is their home.

“We are all Palestinians. We live in the same city, with the same suffering. We are all under siege and are all the same, the Christians are suffering like any other Gaza people, this is our land and we will not leave. Can you imagine that someone called you and forced you and your family to go to another place? We will stay." -- Kamel Ayyad, Spokesperson for the Church of Saint Porphyrius in Gaza City

"I came back to my house in Gaza because if I want to die, let me die in my home," Um Asad Al Shamali

They themselves originally were occupiers. They are not NATIVE to that land. They got it by warfare, and now Israel also did. Because they attempted to wipe Israel off the map. Israel has been more than generous in giving them Gaza.

 

[ralliann]

They stay because it is their home.

“We are all Palestinians. We live in the same city, with the same suffering. We are all under siege and are all the same, the Christians are suffering like any other Gaza people, this is our land and we will not leave. Can you imagine that someone called you and forced you and your family to go to another place? We will stay." -- Kamel Ayyad, Spokesperson for the Church of Saint Porphyrius in Gaza City

"I came back to my house in Gaza because if I want to die, let me die in my home," Um Asad Al Shamali

it is their choice to die with Hamas.

 

[JosephZ]

They themselves originally were occupiers. They are not NATIVE to that land.

Gaza’s Christians have been there since the first century, how far back do we need to go to consider someone to be a native of the land?

 

[ralliann]

Gaza’s Christians have been there since the first century, how far back do we need to go to consider someone to be a native of the land?

Stop, please. Rome were the occupiers of the land. not native
Then another came and took it from Rome and occupied the land not native
Then another claimed nativity, denied nativity
went to war Israel became the occupier Denied nativity
Basic layout. Occupiers.
At what point did any occupiers become native to the land? Why only Arabic peoples?
What you also don't understand is
THEY REFUSED TO HAVE ISRAEL in the land....So the Arabs began a war to rid the land of Israel and the Jews.
They refused to have peace.

 

[rjs330]

Israel has never recognized an independent state of Palestine.

Israel has offered to work out a deal and it's been rejected every time by the Palestinians. They had their opportunities to be recognized by Israel and refused.