Where was the Sabbath Abolished?

[la Son]

1 J 3:4 says nothing about the Mosaic Law. And its the Mosaic Law that had the commandment about the Sabbath.

The Mosaic Law has ended, including the Sabbath commandment. Therefore, it is not a sin. And it was not a sin for Jesus to break it, either.

This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 5:18

You should Not Continue that way of communicating LOL
Your just ripping idea's from sites> Thats a nasty habit

 

[Soyeong]

1 J 3:4 says nothing about the Mosaic Law. And its the Mosaic Law that had the commandment about the Sabbath.

The Mosaic Law has ended, including the Sabbath commandment.

I don't see how else the Israelites knew what sin is if not through the Mosaic Law, so I don't see any room to interpret 1 John 3:4 as referring to something else. Likewise, it is through the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20) and if it weren't for it, then we wouldn't have known what sin is (Romans 3:20).

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of the nature of God as it does to describe aspects of the nature of the Mosaic Law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), which is because it is God's instructions for how to act in accordance with those aspects of His nature, while sin is the transgression of the Mosaic Law because it is what is contrary to God's nature. For example, righteousness is an aspect of God's nature while unrighteousness is sin. God's nature is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to act in accordance with or contrary to God's nature are eternally valid, which is why all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160). Instructions for how to act in accordance with God's nature can't be ended without first ending God.

If the God of Israel had given a different set of commands, such as commanding to commit murder instead, then that would have revealed something very different about His nature, so the set of commands that He has given paint a picture that identifies who He is. Keeping the 7th day holy is part of the nature of the God of Israel and I believe in the God of Israel, whose nature is revealed through the Law of Moses. If the New Covenant were made with a different set of laws, then it would be made with a God with a different nature than that of the God of Israel, but the reality is that it is made with the same God with the same nature and therefore the same set of laws (Jeremiah 31:33).

 

[Gary K]

You are making no sense, again. I gave you verses that the Law and Sabbath ended. You are the one who prefers your SDA/Ellen White tradition over them.

The Mosaic Law has ended:

"For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."
Mt 11:13

"For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands (ἐντολῶν) and regulations (δόγμασιν)."
Eph 2:15

"Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law...
So the law was our guardian until Christ came...
Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian."
Gal 3:23-25

"But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way
of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."
R 7:6

"So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another"
R 7:4

Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory...
For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.
2 Cor 3:7,11

Including the commandment about Sabbath:

This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 5:18

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike.
Rom 14:5

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days"
Col 2:16-23

And you believe the book of Genesis?

Paul tells us the following.

2Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Look at the intimate relationship God says He wants to have with us. Is God your friend? That's what it really means to be a Christian.

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[trophy33]

You should Not Continue that way of communicating LOL
Your just ripping idea's from sites> Thats a nasty habit

I do not understand what you are saying.

 

[trophy33]

I don't see how else the Israelites knew what sin is if not through the Mosaic Law, so I don't see any room to interpret 1 John 3:4 as referring to something else.

1 John is not written to ancient Israelites living under the Mosaic Law. Its written to Christians after Christ. Therefore it does not refer to the Mosaic Law.

 

[trophy33]

And you believe the book of Genesis?

I believe the theological message of Genesis. I do not believe symbolism to be literal or poetry to be scientific, though.

 

[Gary K]

I dig how you keep sourcing from that well water.
That's not the voice of the one who created all nor our Savior neither.
Your stumbling block is hearing from there and trying to prove from there.
You will never be wrong and always satisfied in your position doing that.
As long as your satisfied that works for me.
If you want to do what's right seek the The Most High through Jesus. When your right in your heart this situation doesn't exist. The Advocate makes things clear in your eyes and in your heart.
Go see your charming trickster being put in check for misrepresenting God's plan and being put in check.
Pay close attention to the entire process. Not only to him being exposed and for not keeping the commands and misleading but see him do what he says he won't do. Watch him circumcize himself and and show everyone that he's been teaching against God's plan and he will act right now. Mind that what he was teaching wrong then your consuming of now. As was designed in God's plan when Saul became Paul.
*Pay attention to all of what going on so you can see that not only Paul is wrong but see James The Just tell Paul that what he was doing (didn't happen) it was a misunderstanding. Creating a lie to cover for their church as thousands were ready to kill them because of Pauls stupidity.
Lastly make sure to watch them continue on with old vows and making sacrifices of animals... despite Jesus sacrificing himself doing away with that practice.
The Church leader (his brother) lying, allowing sacrifices and Paul...being.. Paul
Act 21:23

If I see someone doing something I know ends in death and I don't speak up and warn them of their danger I am guilty of murder, If I love them I am forced to warn them by the love I have for them.

 

[Gary K]

I believe the theological message of Genesis. I do not believe symbolism to be literal or poetry to be scientific, though.

In other words you place human knowledge above God's knowledge and wisdom. The Bible says you are without excuse for rejecting scripture.

Romans 1: 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Psalm 19: 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.*n1
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,*n2

 

[trophy33]

In other words you place human knowledge above God's knowledge and wisdom. The Bible says you are without excuse for rejecting scripture.

Romans 1: 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Psalm 19: 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.*n1
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,*n2

You are trying too hard to catch me in something.

The literal reading of Genesis, the Seventh Day Adventists' YEC, evolution, universe etc. can be discussed in their proper subsections.

 

[la Son]

I don't see how else the Israelites knew what sin is if not through the Mosaic Law, so I don't see any room to interpret 1 John 3:4 as referring to something else. Likewise, it is through the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20) and if it weren't for it, then we wouldn't have known what sin is (Romans 3:20).

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of the nature of God as it does to describe aspects of the nature of the Mosaic Law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), which is because it is God's instructions for how to act in accordance with those aspects of His nature, while sin is the transgression of the Mosaic Law because it is what is contrary to God's nature. For example, righteousness is an aspect of God's nature while unrighteousness is sin. God's nature is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to act in accordance with or contrary to God's nature are eternally valid, which is why all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160). Instructions for how to act in accordance with God's nature can't be ended without first ending God.

If the God of Israel had given a different set of commands, such as commanding to commit murder instead, then that would have revealed something very different about His nature, so the set of commands that He has given paint a picture that identifies who He is. Keeping the 7th day holy is part of the nature of the God of Israel and I believe in the God of Israel, whose nature is revealed through the Law of Moses. If the New Covenant were made with a different set of laws, then it would be made with a God with a different nature than that of the God of Israel, but the reality is that it is made with the same God with the same nature and therefore the same set of laws (Jeremiah 31:33).

That was well said, good job!
Gods Commands were being kept since day 7, at least one was anyways. I have to assume there were basic rules for humas to learn and know and so on. Likely basic Commands until the 1st covenant at Gen 26:5

 

[Soyeong]

1 John is not written to ancient Israelites living under the Mosaic Law. Its written to Christians after Christ. Therefore it does not refer to the Mosaic Law.

When Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. Furthermore, Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked. So the same God who gave the Law to Moses also sent Christ to bless us by spending his ministry teaching us to obey it by word and by example, so there is no difference, and Christians are people who follow Christ. Sin is what is contrary to God's eternal nature, so it remains the same regardless of who 1 John was written to, though it was written by an Israelite, and what he knew to be sin is relevant. Furthermore, 1 John 3:4-10 contrasts those who practice sin with those who practice righteousness and the Mosaic Law is again God's instructions for how to practice righteousness and to refrain from practicing sin.

 

[IcyChain]

In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of Christ, which includes repenting from breaking the Sabbath. Furthermore, Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, including keeping the 7th day holy, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked. So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey God's law by word and by example and being a Christian is about following what Christ taught.


The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of the nature of God as it does to describe aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23), which is because it is God's instructions for how to testify about those aspects of His nature, and aspects of His nature are the moral precepts. For instance, our good works testify about God's goodness, which is why they bring glory to Him (Matthew 7:23). Likewise, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3), so by following those instructions we are testifying about God's holiness, and by not following those instructions we are testifying that God is not holy.

God could give someone a list of 100 instruction how to testify about His goodness in various situations, which would allow them to extrapolate are moral principle of goodness that all of those instructions have in common, which would lead them to take actions that are examples that moral principle in accordance with those 100 instructions, even in situations that are not part of that list. Correctly understanding the moral principle of goodness will never lead us away from taking actions that are examples of that principle that were part of that list. Someone would be missing the point if they thought that they correctly understood the moral precept of love, so they no longer needed to take actions that are examples of it. Likewise, the Ten Commandments are examples of moral precepts, so you would be missing the point if you do not consider those moral precepts to be inclusive of the Ten Commandments.


There is nothing about some of God's commands having ceremonial aspects that means that we can be acting morally while disobeying those commands. Morality is in regard to what ought to be done and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. Legislators give laws according to what they think ought to be done, so for you to suggest that there are aspects of God's law that are not moral aspects is to claim that God made a moral error about what ought to be done when He commanded those aspects, which is claiming to have greater moral knowledge than God.

God commanded to keep the 7th day holy, so we can either lean on our own understanding by doing something else or we can trust God with all of our heart by keeping the 7th day holy and He will make our way straight.


What do you think is the extent of this authority? For example, did Peter have the authority to change God's command against murder into a command to commit murder? In Deuteronomy 13:1-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for him was if they taught against obeying God's law. So when God commanded to keep the 7th day holy and someone says that we shouldn't obey what God has commanded and should do something else instead, then by considering that person to be a false prophet we would be correctly acting in accordance with what God has instructed His people to do.

Well this is quite long. Did you cut and paste some of that or is it all an original creation? Either way it was commendable. Keep up the good work.

To answer your question, I would not say that Peter had authority to change God’s commandment against murder, nor would the Holy Spirit allow him to do so. That is an immutable moral principle that is not subject to change.

But the apostles can change things like what someone is allowed to eat. I don’t remember the exact situation off the top of my head but there was something like that with that small council that they had in the book of Acts. I view the particular day of the week (Saturday versus Sunday) as more comparable to that than murder.

 

[trophy33]

When Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. Furthermore, Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked. So the same God who gave the Law to Moses also sent Christ to bless us by spending his ministry teaching us to obey it by word and by example, so there is no difference, and Christians are people who follow Christ. Sin is what is contrary to God's eternal nature, so it remains the same regardless of who 1 John was written to, though it was written by an Israelite, and what he knew to be sin is relevant. Furthermore, 1 John 3:4-10 contrasts those who practice sin with those who practice righteousness and the Mosaic Law is again God's instructions for how to practice righteousness and to refrain from practicing sin.

1 John you quoted from is not from the beginning of Christ ministry, its written to Christians after Christ.

Christ set a sinless example, but broke the Sabbath and changed many Mosaic Law commandments. He also raised two commandments outside the 10 to be the greatest ones.

He walked in the authority of God in flesh.

 

[AlightSeeker]

Not keeping Gods command is not obeying God period. Its not for us to be Accusers as that is Stans job description. Sab is Fri evening-Sat evening. Its been that way since God Sat on Saturday..

My friend here is my opinion. We don't obey him with this.

 

[AlightSeeker]

Sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4) and God's law commands to keep the 7th day holy (Exodus 20:8-11), so it is a sin to break the Sabbath, and we are called to repent from our sins. The 7th day is the real Sabbath rest.

Yes it is. But are we sure it's not us who has sin and disobey his commands?

 

[AlightSeeker]

Have we entered His rest? If so then why are we pushing Moses law? That was a heavy burden. Can we not see this in scripture? Does this prove that we have not yet entered his rest? Jesus is where we find our rest. Only in him alone.

Acts 15 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.

3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren. 4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”

The Jerusalem Council

6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, [a]acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had [c]become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16 ‘After this I will return

And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;

I will rebuild its ruins,

And I will set it up;

17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,

Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,

Says the [d]Lord who does all these things.’

18 [e]“Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from [f]sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

The Jerusalem Decree

22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas,[g] and Silas, leading men among the brethren.

23 They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:


Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, [h]saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual[j] immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

 

[Gary K]

You are trying too hard to catch me in something.

The literal reading of Genesis, the Seventh Day Adventists' YEC, evolution, universe etc. can be discussed in their proper subsections.

Catch you in something? You have told me this in a forum not dedicated to origins and I have never been in that forum here. It's public knowledge so how can I be trying to "catch you" in something?

 

[AlightSeeker]

What is this saying? Are we obeying every word that comes from God's mouth? Do we actually obey all his commands?

17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,

Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,

Says the [d]Lord who does all these things.’

 

[trophy33]

Catch you in something? You have told me this in a forum not dedicated to origins and I have never been in that forum here. It's public knowledge so how can I be trying to "catch you" in something?

This is going off-topic, so I will ignore it.

 

[la Son]

In other words you place human knowledge above God's knowledge and wisdom. The Bible says you are without excuse for rejecting scripture.

Romans 1: 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Psalm 19: 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.*n1
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,*n2

Catch you in something? You have told me this in a forum not dedicated to origins and I have never been in that forum here. It's public knowledge so how can I be trying to "catch you" in something?

PSst..hes trying to catch him in something