Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Landon Caeli]

Terrorist groups end for two major reasons: Members decide to adopt nonviolent tactics and join the political process (43 percent), or local law-enforcement agencies arrest or kill key members of the group (40 percent). Military force has rarely been the primary reason for the end of terrorist groups (7 percent), and few groups since 1968 have achieved victory (10 percent).

Most terrorist groups that have ended did so by pursuing their goals through politics. The possibility of a political solution is linked to a key variable: the breadth of terrorist goals. Most terrorist groups that end because of politics seek narrow policy goals, such as policy change, territorial change, or regime change.

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https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7249/mg741rc

I hate to say this, but Saadam Hussein did keep a tight grip on his people through "policing".

But I haven't seen any kind of "politicization" work in the Middle East previously, except for those that actually lead to dictatorial police States.

...But even if the Palestinians form a dictatorship based police state, I'm not convinced their hatred of Israel will end, still.

 

[rjs330]

Do you miss this part?
”An Israeli security official told CNN that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) was aware of several incidents of ‘abuse’ of Gazan workers by IDF soldiers.”

Did you miss the part where I said:

It would definitely be wrong to abuse those taken into custody though.

 

[rjs330]

It's sad how many news outlets readily accept stories from Hamas and their supporters as true.

So true! I mean the first people I would believe are terrorists who tie families together and burn them alive. I would also believe terrorists who make women and children go outside so they can be victim shields for them while they hide like rats in tunnels under hospitals.

 

[FireDragon76]

I hate to say this, but Saadam Hussein did keep a tight grip on his people through "policing".

But I haven't seen any kind of "politicization" work in the Middle East previously, except for those that actually lead to dictatorial police States.

...But even if the Palestinians form a dictatorship based police state, I'm not convinced their hatred of Israel will end, still.

The Palestinian Authority had a police force that actually did manage to crack down on alot of terrorist activity. But the sidelining of the PA lead to a civil war between the West Bank and Gaza.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Gaza becoming a ‘graveyard for children,’ UN chief warns as calls for ceasefire intensify​

“The nightmare in Gaza is more than a humanitarian crisis. It is a crisis of humanity,” UN Secretary-General António Guterres told reporters in New York, adding that the need for a ceasefire is becoming “more urgent with every passing hour.”

“The parties to the conflict – and, indeed, the international community – face an immediate and fundamental responsibility: to stop this inhuman collective suffering and dramatically expand humanitarian aid to Gaza,” he said.

 

[rjs330]

Elderly Jewish man dies after ‘altercation’ with pro-Palestinian demonstrator in Thousand Oaks​

Elderly Jewish man dies after ‘altercation’ with pro-Palestinian demonstrator in Thousand Oaks

A 69-year-old Jewish man died Monday after suffering a severe head injury during an altercation with a pro-Palestinian demonstrator in Thousand Oaks, California authorities said.

www.yahoo.com

Jew hatred has become rampant. anti-Semetism has increased over 240%. College campuses have become a hot bed for anti-Semetism.

The media itself is anti-Semetic in its coverage.

 

[Chesterton]

Jew hatred has become rampant. anti-Semetism has increased over 240%. College campuses have become a hot bed for anti-Semetism.

The media itself is anti-Semetic in its coverage.

Yeah, all these years the Left's been warning me about the dangerous neo-Nazis! I'd look around and think "hmm, I don't really see much." Now I see it! It's you!

 

[rjs330]

As I wrote in a prior thread:

"To destroy Hamas, Isreal is aiming to destroy the underground tunnel network that covers the entirety of Gaza. Given how extensive the network is and Hamas' propensity to locate their high value military targets near mosque, hospitals etc, Israel is faced with the challenge of how to destroy the tunnels while minimizing human life. It also appears Israel has no inention of sending it's troops into the tunnels given the high risk factor. In the case of the Jabaliya neighborhood, at least two 2,000-pound bombs were used in a densely populated area. The human toll from such a decion would be obvious to the Israeli government.

Israel state's it was targetting a high level Hamas commander as well as tunnel infrastrcure.

Is killing so many civilians justfified? I'm not convinced it is.

Once more, given the situation, we'll see many more Jabaliya like bombings in the days and weeks ahead. Thousands of civilians will die as a result."

The law of armed conflict says the incidental killing of and harm to civilians and damage to objects must not exceed the direct military advantage to be gained. The Geneva Conventions, the widely accepted basis for international humanitarian law and codes of warfare, were adopted in 1949 with the aim of preventing governments from inflicting the level of mass casualties of World War II.

The reason for civilian casualties in this war is Hamas' fault and Hamas' responsibility. Israel has tried to limit the casualties but there is only so much they can do. Hamas puts people including women and children out strictly to be casualties because they know that so many in the west will blame Israel and not them. Their goal is to get public pressure on their side to stop Israel. That way they can continue to exist and continue to attack Israel at will and no one will stop them.

Israel has no desire to throw their own people away. And you typically don't win a war by getting all your soldiers killed. Israel does not have an unlimited supply of people. They are not going to just throw their soldiers into the tunnels to get them killed. And good for them. We wouldn't want our soldiers doing it either.

So the way to end this as quickly as possible is for the world to put their pressure on Hamas to surrender. And put the pressure on them to stop sacrificing their own people. Right now far too many people are supporting a terrorist organization who has committed itself to the destruction of an entire group of people and their country by any means necessary. Israel's goal is to NOT destroy Palestine or wipe the Palestinians out. It's to wipe out a terrorist organization.

The rules of war were created to encourage the armies to fight, wear uniforms so you can tell who's who and to try and limit casualties of civilians. All of which Hamas has totally ignored.

 

[rjs330]

Gaza becoming a ‘graveyard for children,’ UN chief warns as calls for ceasefire intensify​

“The nightmare in Gaza is more than a humanitarian crisis. It is a crisis of humanity,” UN Secretary-General António Guterres told reporters in New York, adding that the need for a ceasefire is becoming “more urgent with every passing hour.”

“The parties to the conflict – and, indeed, the international community – face an immediate and fundamental responsibility: to stop this inhuman collective suffering and dramatically expand humanitarian aid to Gaza,” he said.

A cease fire will only lead to more civilian deaths in the future. A cease is completely anti-Semetic because all it does is benefit Hamas. It receives the pressure on them and helps them. Reorganize to reengage and to cause the deaths of more children.

 

[rjs330]

How do you justify killing Gazan civilians due to rocket attacks from Hezbollah and the Houthis from other countries? Shouldn't the Israelis at least be killing random Lebanese and Yemeni citizens?

One piece at a time. The most needed at this time is the death of Hamas. If any of these other groups pull what Hamas did then they eventually will have to be dealt with as well.

 

[rjs330]

Military action that harms civilians must be proportional to military objectives. Hamas' actions cannot justify slaughtering civilians.

They have not been. Israel hasn't been slaughtering civilians. They have been trying to take out Hamas, which are legitimate targets. Civilians have died because of Hamas, not Israel.

 

[Pommer]

Did you miss the part where I said:

It would definitely be wrong to abuse those taken into custody though.

The same post where you ended with
”Why are people so quick to believe supporters of terrorists?”

Why was there any doubt that the “supporters of terroists’ (just happened) to be correct in this instance, since it was confirmed by the IDF?

 

[Landon Caeli]

One of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' bodyguards was shot dead in an assassination attempt on the leader after he was given a 24-hour ultimatum by the "Sons of Abu Jandal" to declare a "global war" against Israel.​

Assassination attempt on Palestine president Mahmoud Abbas leaves one dead

One of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' bodyguards was shot dead in an assassination attempt on the leader after he was given a 24-hour ultimatum by the "Sons of Abu Jandal" to declare a "global war" against Israel.

www.the-express.com

Uh-boy

 

[ThatRobGuy]

One of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' bodyguards was shot dead in an assassination attempt on the leader after he was given a 24-hour ultimatum by the "Sons of Abu Jandal" to declare a "global war" against Israel.​

Assassination attempt on Palestine president Mahmoud Abbas leaves one dead

One of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' bodyguards was shot dead in an assassination attempt on the leader after he was given a 24-hour ultimatum by the "Sons of Abu Jandal" to declare a "global war" against Israel.

www.the-express.com

Uh-boy

Yep...can't say that one surprises me a whole lot.

For all the talk of the "Cruelty of Israel's actions", people forget that the lion's share of cruelty against Muslims, typically comes from other Muslims. I forget which stand-up comedian said it, but they said "It's the only religion that operates like the Mafia...where you get whacked if you do something that offends one of the other families"


The same is true across a wide variety of other facets of daily life in those areas.


When the handwringing from pro-Hamas propaganda leads to complaints about Israel's operations resulting in the deaths and injuries of women, it's important to keep this in mind:

The Deadly Toll for Palestinian Women

Videos that circulated on social media in August appearing to show a hospital corridor with a woman heard pleading and screaming, and sounds of intermittent thuds, have sparked protests and outrage at the lethal cost that Palestinian women pay because of a lack of protections and discriminatory...

www.hrw.org

So if Israel accidentally kills women as a result of collateral damage in a military operation, other international players in the Muslim world will get absolutely outraged about it. When their own men beat & kill women because "they dishonored me in public", that never seems to come up in the conversation...funny how that works out.

 

[Valletta]

According to the school, the man punched a Jewish student holding an Israeli flag, then spit on the flag. Staff members stepped in to help.

UMass Amherst student allegedly punched Jewish student, spit on Israeli flag

A UMass Amherst student accused of punching a Jewish student has been ordered to stay off campus.

www.cbsnews.com

The Biden administration needs to start charging these people with hate crimes.

 

[wing2000]

So the way to end this as quickly as possible is for the world to put their pressure on Hamas to surrender. And put the pressure on them to stop sacrificing their own people. Right now far too many people are supporting a terrorist organization who has committed itself to the destruction of an entire group of people and their country by any means necessary. Israel's goal is to NOT destroy Palestine or wipe the Palestinians out. It's to wipe out a terrorist organization.

And who has leverage with Hamas to apply this pressure? Iran?
What incentive would there be for Hamas to surrender?

 

[rjs330]

If one country attacks another country, that doesn't justify destroying the other country in an act of revenge. The laws of war permit a defending nation to eliminate the capacity of the aggressor nation to pose a military threat (something Netenyahu could have easily done with more border security instead of using the Israeli military to bully Palestinians near illegal settlements on the West Bank), it doesn't justify any act of aggression in the name of retaliation.

It's not the weather bank that attacked Israel. It was Hamas and Gaza. And Gaza doesn't have any Jewish settlements there. They all left. But that didn't stop Hamas and Gaza from attacking Israel anyway. They did it. And you know who I filtrated Israel. It was Gazans. Not just Hamas themselves but Hamas supporters who were working in Israel as workers. They spied on the Israelis and provided I intelligence to Hamas and helped them attack. Why some of them also participated in it.

No there is no excuse for the Gazans and Hamas continual strikes and murder of Jews. They want Israel destroyed and all of the Jews dead. They've said so.

 

[FireDragon76]

It's not the weather bank that attacked Israel. It was Hamas and Gaza. And Gaza doesn't have any Jewish settlements there. They all left. But that didn't stop Hamas and Gaza from attacking Israel anyway. They did it. And you know who I filtrated Israel. It was Gazans. Not just Hamas themselves but Hamas supporters who were working in Israel as workers. They spied on the Israelis and provided I intelligence to Hamas and helped them attack. Why some of them also participated in it.

No there is no excuse for the Gazans and Hamas continual strikes and murder of Jews. They want Israel destroyed and all of the Jews dead. They've said so.

You are conflating the residents of Gaza with Hamas. The people of Gaza are not responsible for Hamas's attacks, and most are too young to have ever voted for Hamas. Hamas doesn't allow democratic elections in Gaza.

Collective punishment of civilians for military atrocities or terrorist attacks is against international law.

 

[MrMoe]

Jew hatred has become rampant. anti-Semetism has increased over 240%. College campuses have become a hot bed for anti-Semetism.

The media itself is anti-Semetic in its coverage.

What happened to "safe spaces" and "micro-aggressions" that these places are known for?

 

[MrMoe]

Hate Crime With An Ironic Twist

"A woman was arrested after intentionally driving her car into what she thought was a Jewish school in Indiana, authorities said."

"One adult, a 7-month-old baby, and three children under age 3 were inside the school when the crash occurred, according to court records. None were injured."

"further stated that she had “passed by a couple times and saw the ‘Israel school’,” police said, and also told police, “Yes. I did it on purpose.”"

Woman purposely crashed car into what she thought was a Jewish school, Indiana police say

Ruba Almaghtheh, 34, drove her Chevy Impala into the Israelite School of Universal and Practical Knowledge in Indianapolis, authorities said.

www.usatoday.com

Indiana woman allegedly crashes 'on purpose' into what she thought was Jewish school: Police

An Indiana woman allegedly crashed "on purpose" into what she thought was a Jewish school.

abcnews.go.com

Turns out the structure is associated with Radical Hebrew Israelites, a group the Southern Poverty Law Center designated as an anti-Israel and anti-Semitic extremist organization.

"The Anti-Defamation League said that the Israelite School of Universal and Practical Knowledge is in fact an extremist organization that is anti-Israel. The Southern Poverty Law Center has also designated the organization a hate group."

Curb your antisemitism.