How Hamas duped Israel

[FireDragon76]

I'm assuming #1 is largely the result of BDS-style propagandizing.

A lot of major US cities have a plethora of "illegal settling" (whether it be setting up tents on someone's tree lawn and leaving needles in the street like in San Fran or LA, squatting in a property that's not theirs and claiming to invoke "squatter's rights", or just flat out entering the country illegally and setting up homestead, etc...), yet the BDS types tend to sympathize with them.

Same goes for the the aspect of buying the land... if rich white yuppies go into an area buy up the houses and property, it's labelled as "gentrification" (in a negative tone)

It's the same reason why here in the US...
A bunch of rich white yuppies gentrifying a neighborhood is viewed by those types as more "problematic" than a riot that destroys a neighborhood (which get's branded as some sort of righteous outrage)

Are you ignoring obvious power imbalances? Israeli settlers have the backing of the Israeli military, people in homeless encampments don't.

 

[BPPLEE]

Someone said, “To know who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize,”

LGBTQ people?

 

[mindlight]

NYT's reporting based on unnamed senior Israeli sources:

"Shortly before attackers from Gaza poured into Israel at dawn on Saturday, Israeli intelligence detected a surge in activity on some of the Gazan militant networks it monitors. Realizing something unusual was happening, they sent an alert to the Israeli soldiers guarding the Gazan border, according to two senior Israeli security officials.

But the warning wasn’t acted upon, either because the soldiers didn’t get it or the soldiers didn’t read it.

Shortly afterward, Hamas, the group that controls Gaza, sent drones to disable some of the Israeli military’s cellular communications stations and surveillance towers along the border, preventing the duty officers from monitoring the area remotely with video cameras. The drones also destroyed remote-controlled machine guns that Israel had installed on its border fortifications, removing a key means of combating a ground attack."

How Israel’s Feared Security Services Failed to Stop Hamas’s Attack

Israel’s military and espionage services are considered among the world’s best, but on Saturday, operational and intelligence failures led to the worst breach of Israeli defenses in half a century.

www.nytimes.com

It was the first time Hamas has employed armed drones...

So it sounds like the troops on the border were warned but somehow the communication did not reach them. Does this mean Hamas disrupted these or troops were still laxidaisical after Yom Kippur?

 

[mindlight]

I don't suscribe to the "government knew" theory for either event.
From a tactical perspective, the two scenarios are not alike at all. Different era. Different technologies, etc.
In this case, Hammas took out communication / surveillence towers which cut off communications with the troops on the border. So if the Jappanese took out US radar etc, I suppose they would be similar in that way.

One similarity is that this will prove a massive mistake for the attacker. The Japanese should have invaded Haiwaii not merely bombed it if they wanted any chance of winning a war with the USA.

Hamas has basically sabotaged any chance of an implementation of the two-state agreement for the next 20 years. Now Israel's backs are up. They have watched women and children kidnapped and killed. There is no mercy for those who show none and in the Middle East triply so.

 

[Nithavela]

Many different claims about the source. It's not who said it that matters to me it's what was said.

The sentiment is nonsense as well. Are you ruled by people in wheelchairs?

 

[mindlight]

Are you ignoring obvious power imbalances? Israeli settlers have the backing of the Israeli military, people in homeless encampments don't.

The bigger question is why they are in homeless encampments in the first place

There is economic mismanagement and a continual cycle of violence with consequences to blame for that but also the fact that the surrounding Arab countries have shut their borders to Palestinians.

If I was a Palestinian man with a family I would not want to fight Israel == Certain defeat, possible death. Rather I would want to get a job somewhere and provide for my family. But Palestinians are denied that opportunity. Until that changes their anger and frustration will continue to erupt into this self-defeating violence.

 

[Nithavela]

LGBTQ people?

The original quote was directed against jews.

 

[Dan1988]

And a happy Matthew 5:22 to you too!

You're absolutely right brother, I had no just cause to get angry with you and I sincerely regret my foolish outburst.
I humbly ask for forgiveness, but I can't blame you if you don't. There's no excuse for speaking that way to an infidel, let alone a brother.

Whilst there's no justification for my outburst, I think the reason I reacted in that manner was due to being vexed out with debating the Israel Palestine war with my family and friends.

Everyone I know is siding with Israel, it's as though Israel can retaliate in anyway it wants and nobody holds them to account for the excessive force to get revenge. Revenge is understandable but the slaughter of so many innocent children is unacceptable

 

[Canuckster]

The sentiment is nonsense as well. Are you ruled by people in wheelchairs?

It's not nonsense to me.

 

[RDKirk]

I believe that you may be mistaken.
There is no cabal “running the world”.
Yes, it is as chaotic as it appears; if there was “some group who controls everything”, then they’re doing the job incorrectly.

Well, to get woo-woo about it, it's still Satan. The error many Christians make is that Satan would do anything but create chaos. Satan is not a spirit of order, but a spirit of chaos.

 

[RDKirk]

NYT's reporting based on unnamed senior Israeli sources:

"Shortly before attackers from Gaza poured into Israel at dawn on Saturday, Israeli intelligence detected a surge in activity on some of the Gazan militant networks it monitors. Realizing something unusual was happening, they sent an alert to the Israeli soldiers guarding the Gazan border, according to two senior Israeli security officials.

But the warning wasn’t acted upon, either because the soldiers didn’t get it or the soldiers didn’t read it.

There are lots of ways information can be derailed on the path to effective action...not so simple as you make it seem.

The intelligence community has to communicate information in ways that explicitly identify vulnerabilities. It's incumbent on intelligence to understand the mission, capabilities, and vulnerabilities of the forces they support because vagueness generates inaction.

 

[RDKirk]

Do you think this is similar to what happened at Pearl Harbor ? Some or many reports indicated the leaders knew an attack was imminent, yet it possibly seemed appropriate for the purposes of the governments to do nothing until after the attack ?

There were a couple of vague indications...that does not mean "knew an attack was imminent."

 

[RDKirk]

I suppose if you are the type to behead infants, run airliners into buildings, launch 500 rockets into residential areas, and gas your own people... it would not be hard to come up with deception that will fool normal, rational, hopeful-for-peace people. That is the devil's method, and we should not be surprised whatsoever that this is what his children do. The devil has deceived billions of people. Evil is as evil does.
It is not something they should brag about or heap honor on those who do it.

More likely, it was in the interest of the Likud party to popularize the opinion that they had the problem contained.

 

[RDKirk]

Oh it wasn’t just the Saducces and the Pharisees and the “leaders” in Judah at the time of Christ but all Jews everywhere in perpetuity?

Let's not mention that modern Judaism acknowledges its foundation is the Pharisaic tradition that Jesus cursed and Paul called "dung."

 

[RDKirk]

One similarity is that this will prove a massive mistake for the attacker. The Japanese should have invaded Haiwaii not merely bombed it if they wanted any chance of winning a war with the USA.

The Japanese had zero capability of invading Hawaii.

Hamas has basically sabotaged any chance of an implementation of the two-state agreement for the next 20 years. Now Israel's backs are up. They have watched women and children kidnapped and killed. There is no mercy for those who show none and in the Middle East triply so.

Nobody in the area wanted a two-state solution anyway. The Israelis had no intention of allowing Gaza to become a sovereign state, the Palestinians had no intention of abandoning their claim of what had become Israeli state territory.

 

[Canuckster]

Everyone I know is siding with Israel,

The both sides that are engaged in this conflict, Israeli govt vs Hamas, have one thing in common: they’re both staunch anti-Christs. I side with neither.

 

[wing2000]

There are lots of ways information can be derailed on the path to effective action...not so simple as you make it seem.

The intelligence community has to communicate information in ways that explicitly identify vulnerabilities. It's incumbent on intelligence to understand the mission, capabilities, and vulnerabilities of the forces they support because vagueness generates inaction.

To be clear, I was quoting the information as reported by the NTY based on Israeli sources. Of course early reporting only captures part of the story....

 

[Dan1988]

The both sides that are engaged in this conflict, Israeli govt vs Hamas, have one thing in common: they’re both staunch anti-Christs. I side with neither.

It's not a matter of taking sides with Israel or Palastine, but it's a matter of taking God's side or the Devils side.

God said 'thou shall not kill', if you're OK with the shedding of innocent blood, then God will punish you as 8f their blood is on your hands.

 

[RDKirk]

It's not a matter of taking sides with Israel or Palastine, but it's a matter of taking God's side or the Devils side.

God said 'thou shall not kill', if you're OK with the shedding of innocent blood, then God will punish you as 8f their blood is on your hands.

Both sides shed innocent blood, and have been since 1948.

Both sides have also been oppressing Christians since 1948.

 

[mindlight]

Both sides shed innocent blood, and have been since 1948.

Both sides have also been oppressing Christians since 1948.

Maybe to some extent. But the Israelis definitely come out looking better on their treatment of the church. I was able to do street evangelism on streets of Jerusalem without being killed. Gaza would have been a very different experience. Also look at the prosperity of Arab Christians in Israel, they top the wealth and educational charts. As a Christian I would prefer to live in Israel rather than Palestine or indeed any other Muslim country.