How Hamas duped Israel

[RestoreTheJoy]

"A careful campaign of deception ensured Israel was caught off guard when the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas launched its devastating attack, enabling a force using bulldozers, hang gliders and motorbikes to take on the Middle East's most powerful army."

Read the rest here:

How Hamas duped Israel as it planned devastating attack

While Israel was led to believe it was containing a war-weary Hamas by providing economic incentives to Gazan workers, the group's fighters were being trained and drilled, often in plain sight, a source close to Hamas said.

www.reuters.com

Assuming any of this is actually how it happened, and it wasn't some sort of inside job, well, it won't happen again.

 

[wing2000]

Do you think this is similar to what happened at Pearl Harbor ? Some or many reports indicated the leaders knew an attack was imminent, yet it possibly seemed appropriate for the purposes of the governments to do nothing until after the attack ?

I don't suscribe to the "government knew" theory for either event.
From a tactical perspective, the two scenarios are not alike at all. Different era. Different technologies, etc.
In this case, Hammas took out communication / surveillence towers which cut off communications with the troops on the border. So if the Jappanese took out US radar etc, I suppose they would be similar in that way.

 

[wing2000]

Early lessons learned per the Israelis (same article):

• Failure by intelligence officers to monitor key communication channels used by Palestinian attackers;

• Overreliance on border surveillance equipment that was easily shut down by attackers, allowing them to raid military bases and slay soldiers in their beds;
• Clustering of commanders in a single border base that was overrun in the opening phase of the incursion, preventing communication with the rest of the armed forces;
• And a willingness to accept at face value assertions by Gazan military leaders, made on private channels that the Palestinians knew were being monitored by Israel, that they were not preparing for battle.

“We spend billions and billions on gathering intelligence on Hamas,” said Yoel Guzansky, a former senior official at Israel’s National Security Council. “Then, in a second,” he added, “everything collapsed like dominoes.”

 

[Canuckster]

No they do not watch the news, but they have a more sinister agenda. Destroy Israel and cancel the plan of God. They will fail of course.

Since they never watch the news, from their perspective, Israel was destroyed a long time ago. A mosque on the temple mount is their glaring achievement. Hasad are no threat to the Israeli state; they’re only a threat to Israelis and Palestinians. That’s why they’re permitted to exist. They’re also a threat to Americans cause Americans will foot most of the bill.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I suppose if you are the type to behead infants, run airliners into buildings, launch 500 rockets into residential areas, and gas your own people... it would not be hard to come up with deception that will fool normal, rational, hopeful-for-peace people. That is the devil's method, and we should not be surprised whatsoever that this is what his children do. The devil has deceived billions of people. Evil is as evil does.
It is not something they should brag about or heap honor on those who do it.

 

[Nithavela]

I believe that you may be mistaken.
There is no cabal “running the world”.
Yes, it is as chaotic as it appears; if there was “some group who controls everything”, then they’re doing the job incorrectly.

 

[Nithavela]

Someone said, “To know who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize,”

That someone would be Kevin Alfred Strom, a white supremacist, sex offender and founder of the National Vanguard.

Not someone I would proudly quote, but you do you.

 

[Dan1988]

Ahh, finally, thank you. We cannot identify the puppet masters (cnesorship) , but it is somewhat re-assuring to see that others are aware too.

I was trying to point out that those who most people believe to be the puppet masters, (the super rich Jews) are actually puppets themselves. The Devil is the great puppet master, He is the Prince of this world. He is the One who has deceived the whole world (except for the elect of God).
He has full control of all non Christians, this is why the world is full of wickedness. The ruling elite are just as much enslaved to Him as ordinary people are

 

[Dan1988]

I believe that you may be mistaken.
There is no cabal “running the world”.
Yes, it is as chaotic as it appears; if there was “some group who controls everything”, then they’re doing the job incorrectly.

Satan and His Minions are the Kabal, they're most effective when their victim's don't believe they exist. As long as people are blind to the facts, they can destroy them with ease.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Recently military history has shown many once highly feared armies aren't necessarily all they are cracked up to be.

Netenyahu has spent most of his time in recent years attacking democracy and dodging corruption scandals (which is no surprise if you dig into the history of Likud at all). It's completely believable that something like this went under the Israeli government's radar.

I would say in many cases you're right...
(if you're referring to Russia, who conventional wisdom dictated - based on past reputation - that they should've made quick work of Ukraine...and obviously they didn't)

However, the key distinction is that Russia's military capabilities hadn't really been truly tested in decades, as to where Israel's military has had a lot more "recent playing time" for lack of a better term, where they're constantly having to watch over the shoulder from all sides.

Based on what's been provided in this thread thus far, careful deception and subterfuge allowed them to "slip one past the goalie".

However, that'll likely be a short-lived "win" for them as from what we can already see, Israel can hit back hard.

The IDF are not to be messed around with.

I believe it was the Comedian Dave Attell who characterized the IDF as "These aren't the Mel Brooks kind of Jews, these are the cover me with this machine gun while I take a leak kind of Jews"


Sure, I could concoct a plan that would allow me to sneak up behind Mike Tyson and deliver a sucker punch, but when he finally turns around and hits me back, I'm going to be in a world of trouble.

 

[FireDragon76]

I would say in many cases you're right...
(if you're referring to Russia, who conventional wisdom dictated - based on past reputation - that they should've made quick work of Ukraine...and obviously they didn't)

However, the key distinction is that Russia's military capabilities hadn't really been truly tested in decades, as to where Israel's military has had a lot more "recent playing time" for lack of a better term, where they're constantly having to watch over the shoulder from all sides.

Based on what's been provided in this thread thus far, careful deception and subterfuge allowed them to "slip one past the goalie".

However, that'll likely be a short-lived "win" for them as from what we can already see, Israel can hit back hard.

The IDF are not to be messed around with.

I believe it was the Comedian Dave Attell who characterized the IDF as "These aren't the Mel Brooks kind of Jews, these are the cover me with this machine gun while I take a leak kind of Jews"


Sure, I could concoct a plan that would allow me to sneak up behind Mike Tyson and deliver a sucker punch, but when he finally turns around and hits me back, I'm going to be in a world of trouble.

What I sense, based on what I've seen and read (I've been following the NY Times podcasts recently), is that Israel has been diverting their military to the West Bank and numerous Israeli settlements, and they just assumed that Hamas would have their hands busy governing Gaza.

Alot has been done in Hollywood to mythologize the Israeli military. While their special forces are very good, most of the Israeli military is made of conscripts, not professional soldiers, and most of their military victories have been due to the fact that the Arab armies they faced were very poor quality. Also, the Israeli intelligence apparatus and military are at risk of being infiltrated by ultra-nationalist ideologies that could engender hubris or miscalculation.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Malcolm Nance has an interesting breakdown.

Interesting hypotheticals and theories he presents, and they could be a lot of validity there.

I go both ways on Malcolm. There are times where he appears to really know his stuff, but then there are other times I have the sneaking suspicion that he's over-exaggerating his expertise and "elite" status.

(For instance, when he was on Bill Maher a while back and claimed that during the PT testing phase for signing on to be part of the Ukrainian foreign legion, at age 60, he outperformed two Marines in their 30's in commando training...yeah...I'd have to see that one to believe it)

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Alot has been done in Hollywood to mythologize the Israeli military. While their special forces are very good, most of the Israeli military is made of conscripts, not professional soldiers, and most of their military victories have been due to the fact that the Arab armies they faced were very poor quality. Also, the Israeli intelligence apparatus and military are at risk of being infiltrated by ultra-nationalist ideologies that could engender hubris or miscalculation.

There's a possibility that those bullet points have some truth.

However, if there wasn't at least some robustness to their military and intelligence, they've would've been run over and ran outta town 30 times over by now.

They're one of the few countries that I can think of that literally has hostiles on every side, and has to regularly shoot missiles out of the sky that are headed their way.

If you look at the track record, they're literally getting attacked (in a significant way) 8-20 times a year, for the last two decades.

In terms of the amount of time with combat experience, you'd be hard pressed to find another country that rivaled them on a consistent basis. Most of our forces go their entire military career with very few times (if any?) where they're actually under a real threat or getting shot at. Meanwhile, the IDF are engaging in urban combat and life or death situations on a pretty regular basis.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Recently military history has shown many once highly feared armies aren't necessarily all they are cracked up to be.

Netenyahu has spent most of his time in recent years attacking democracy and dodging corruption scandals (which is no surprise if you dig into the history of Likud at all). It's completely believable that something like this went under the Israeli government's radar.

Yup.

Thankfully, they have the ability and justification to wipe out Palestine once and for all.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That someone would be Kevin Alfred Strom, a white supremacist, sex offender and founder of the National Vanguard.

Not someone I would proudly quote, but you do you.

Why? Because he hates Jews?

 

[Ana the Ist]

There's a possibility that those bullet points have some truth.

However, if there wasn't at least some robustness to their military and intelligence, they've would've been run over and ran outta town 30 times over by now.

They're one of the few countries that I can think of that literally has hostiles on every side, and has to regularly shoot missiles out of the sky that are headed their way.

If you look at the track record, they're literally getting attacked (in a significant way) 8-20 times a year, for the last two decades.

In terms of the amount of time with combat experience, you'd be hard pressed to find another country that rivaled them on a consistent basis. Most of our forces go their entire military career with very few times (if any?) where they're actually under a real threat or getting shot at. Meanwhile, the IDF are engaging in urban combat and life or death situations on a pretty regular basis.

Just out of curiosity....and an honest question here....

Does it at all seem odd to you that the majority of discussions regarding this conflict seem to hinge upon comparing two extremely unlike things....

1. The possibility of illegal settlements being created on land that is either stolen, or bought, by the Israelis.

And....

2. People being killed in their homes, and during normal life, indiscriminately, by Palestinian terrorists who launch rockets and mortars at civilians.

I tend to be the sort of person who brings up #2 and don't understand why people respond with #1 as if it's somehow remotely similar.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Just out of curiosity....and an honest question here....

Does it at all seem odd to you that the majority of discussions regarding this conflict seem to hinge upon comparing two extremely unlike things....

1. The possibility of illegal settlements being created on land that is either stolen, or bought, by the Israelis.

And....

2. People being killed in their homes, and during normal life, indiscriminately, by Palestinian terrorists who launch rockets and mortars at civilians.

I tend to be the sort of person who brings up #2 and don't understand why people respond with #1 as if it's somehow remotely similar.

I'm assuming #1 is largely the result of BDS-style propagandizing.

A lot of major US cities have a plethora of "illegal settling" (whether it be setting up tents on someone's tree lawn and leaving needles in the street like in San Fran or LA, squatting in a property that's not theirs and claiming to invoke "squatter's rights", or just flat out entering the country illegally and setting up homestead, etc...), yet the BDS types tend to sympathize with them.

Same goes for the the aspect of buying the land... if rich white yuppies go into an area buy up the houses and property, it's labelled as "gentrification" (in a negative tone)

It's the same reason why here in the US...
A bunch of rich white yuppies gentrifying a neighborhood is viewed by those types as more "problematic" than a riot that destroys a neighborhood (which get's branded as some sort of righteous outrage)

 

[Canuckster]

That someone would be Kevin Alfred Strom, a white supremacist, sex offender and founder of the National Vanguard.

Not someone I would proudly quote, but you do you.

Many different claims about the source. It's not who said it that matters to me it's what was said.

 

[Pommer]

I was trying to point out that those who most people believe to be the puppet masters, (the super rich Jews) are actually puppets themselves. The Devil is the great puppet master, He is the Prince of this world. He is the One who has deceived the whole world (except for the elect of God).
He has full control of all non Christians, this is why the world is full of wickedness. The ruling elite are just as much enslaved to Him as ordinary people are

If I didn’t know any better I would have thought that you had meant to suggest that super rich Jews were unwitting agents of Satan.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm assuming #1 is largely the result of BDS-style propagandizing.

I don't want to jump to conclusions...I honestly don’t know. I would assume its a mix of legal and illegal settlements but it's a matter of perspective.

In my mind, if an Israeli developer hands some Palestinian a wad of cash for their land and then bulldozes the existing property....that's a legal development regardless of what side of the partition it lands on. None should be shocked that some Palestinians living in squalor give up the property they have for a better life elsewhere.

Yet, I cannot say that's every case or even the vast majority of cases. I've seen no comprehensive coverage of how all these settlements happen over the years.

A lot of major US cities have a plethora of "illegal settling" (whether it be setting up tents on someone's tree lawn and leaving needles in the street like in San Fran or LA, squatting in a property that's not theirs and claiming to invoke "squatter's rights", or just flat out entering the country illegally and setting up homestead, etc...), yet the BDS types tend to sympathize with them.

Approximately 9 million people have crossed our borders illegally under Biden. That's a staggering number higher than the previous 2 administrations combined. Despite this, the same people who have an inviolable respect for the sanctity of Palestinian borders don't seem to care at all about ours.

It does beg the question....do they actually care about national borders?

Same goes for the the aspect of buying the land... if rich white yuppies go into an area buy up the houses and property, it's labelled as "gentrification" (in a negative tone)

Yet when those same rich white yuppies leave an area for the suburbs....it's called "white flight".

It's the same reason why here in the US...
A bunch of rich white yuppies gentrifying a neighborhood is viewed by those types as more "problematic" than a riot that destroys a neighborhood (which get's branded as some sort of righteous outrage)

Well, I don't know if it's exactly the same. It seems a very poor comparison to bemoan losing one's house or plot and comparing that to random murder.