Hamas-Israel News Thread

[durangodawood]

The thing is that has been the way of things since the beginning of time. The difference is now we consider ourselves more civilized and don't like the bloody conquest bit anymore. But we also don't like necessarily getting involved directly to stop it either.

We are a fickle bunch.

Dont you, as a Christian, find it unsettling that there's a significant aspect of human behavior for which you can find no moral guidance?

 

[rjs330]

For most people in the world, moving is not easy. If you're a citizen of a poor country, it's also very difficult to get VISA and we're not "visa-free" in many countries. This world collectively oppresses the poor, one way they do it is by restricting global mobility. And adjusting for economics, it's usually not affordable to the poor to move.

Additionally, Palestinians worry if they move out, the Israelis would move in.....

You can see there is a strong motive for Israel to deal with Palestinians with harsh brutality. Because if Palestinians move out, Israel can expand to the vacated territories. Most people are just too naïve to take what the West is saying as the truth. If they say it's out of "deterrence", they don't even bother to investigate possible motives or agendas.

The Arabs are not a bunch of brutes. I have lived and worked with them for some years. They only tend to express their emotions more liberally like Klingons but it's NOT to be interpreted as something evil. If they wish to show compassion and they often do and sometimes even more than Christians! they also express it more liberally, so it even things out. They're not evil, just misunderstood.

Arabs are 100% humans beings as we are..... not just some targets to annihilate.

Many Western countries still support Israel because they only want to keep the pretense they're still Christians countries. But most of their citizens are not anymore. Either deceived with prosperity gospel churches or openly acknowledging they have left the religion.

Oh I have no doubt that Arabs have a lot of good people. But they're also have a lot of really bad people too. And I don't just mean a bad dude here and there. Just look at their history and even the current groups across the spectrum. They have a lot of terrorist organizations, brutal governments etc. And this is throughout the Arab world. I don't know if a lot of other people who send in suicide bombers. Randomly launch rockets into civilian areas, capture others and behead them on live tv, throw gay people off buildings and fly airplanes into sky scrapers. I don't know of a lot of people who treat their women like second or third class citizens, cut off their sexual pleasure areas and make them wear clothing with nothing but their eyes showing and don't let them drive.

Yes I know there are plenty of good Arabic people. But man there are enough bad ones that they are concerning.

Hamas is a prime example and Israel would have zero reason to grab territory if Hamas would keep their rockets themselves.

 

[rjs330]

Dont you, as a Christian, find it unsettling that there's a significant aspect of human behavior for which you can find no moral guidance?

All human morality is unsettling. There is a significant aspect of human behavior which is off the rails morally. That's the point of the gospel. There is none righteous. History has proven this.

 

[Vanellus]

I don't know. I recall years ago having philosophical discussions with atheists about whether there's any such thing as "rights", but I won't go into that here.

I want to be fair, but I also want to be realistic. Whether I agree or disagree with how the Jews got back there, they are there, and they're not going anywhere. They're not going to be "driven into the sea", they're not going to be genocided, and none of us should want any one to be. But over the decades Israel has made numerous attempts at conciliation, even offering land for peace, and every time the Arabs around them said "no". They have never negotiated in good faith. Nothing is ever good enough for the Arabs short of complete removal or complete destruction.

Have you heard of the Oslo accords?

 

[Vanellus]

Oh I have no doubt that Arabs have a lot of good people. But they're also have a lot of really bad people too. And I don't just mean a bad dude here and there. Just look at their history and even the current groups across the spectrum. They have a lot of terrorist organizations, brutal governments etc. And this is throughout the Arab world. I don't know if a lot of other people who send in suicide bombers. Randomly launch rockets into civilian areas, capture others and behead them on live tv, throw gay people off buildings and fly airplanes into sky scrapers. I don't know of a lot of people who treat their women like second or third class citizens, cut off their sexual pleasure areas and make them wear clothing with nothing but their eyes showing and don't let them drive.

Yes I know there are plenty of good Arabic people. But man there are enough bad ones that they are concerning.

Hamas is a prime example and Israel would have zero reason to grab territory if Hamas would keep their rockets themselves.

Which country dropped nukes on two large cities in Japan?

 

[Vanellus]

Not comparable. The Troubles lasted a much shorter time, and involved rare (albeit horrible) isolated incidents. Most took place in N. Ireland. N. Ireland was not a literal next door neighbor to Britain, much less were the British literally surrounded by enemies, and AFAIK, the IRA never called for the abolishment of Britain and the genocide of the British people.

The "troubles" i.e. conflict between Britain/England and Ireland started in the 12th century.

 

[Pommer]

Oh I have no doubt that Arabs have a lot of good people. But they're also have a lot of really bad people too. And I don't just mean a bad dude here and there. Just look at their history and even the current groups across the spectrum. They have a lot of terrorist organizations, brutal governments etc. And this is throughout the Arab world. I don't know if a lot of other people who send in suicide bombers. Randomly launch rockets into civilian areas, capture others and behead them on live tv, throw gay people off buildings and fly airplanes into sky scrapers. I don't know of a lot of people who treat their women like second or third class citizens, cut off their sexual pleasure areas and make them wear clothing with nothing but their eyes showing and don't let them drive.

Yes I know there are plenty of good Arabic people. But man there are enough bad ones that they are concerning.

Hamas is a prime example and Israel would have zero reason to grab territory if Hamas would keep their rockets themselves.

If only the Palestinians took their subjugation with grace and humility?
Where was that ever a “popular” move with the locals?

 

[timewerx]

Oh I have no doubt that Arabs have a lot of good people. But they're also have a lot of really bad people too. And I don't just mean a bad dude here and there. Just look at their history and even the current groups across the spectrum. They have a lot of terrorist organizations, brutal governments etc. And this is throughout the Arab world. I don't know if a lot of other people who send in suicide bombers. Randomly launch rockets into civilian areas, capture others and behead them on live tv, throw gay people off buildings and fly airplanes into sky scrapers. I don't know of a lot of people who treat their women like second or third class citizens, cut off their sexual pleasure areas and make them wear clothing with nothing but their eyes showing and don't let them drive.

Yes I know there are plenty of good Arabic people. But man there are enough bad ones that they are concerning.

Hamas is a prime example and Israel would have zero reason to grab territory if Hamas would keep their rockets themselves.

This only proves you haven't lived in the Middle East long enough to really know the Arabs.

There's only very few rotten apples but as our fallen world tends to consolidate power and wealth to a very few with the insane inequality in the distribution of wealth and power by this system, these very few rotten apples can achieve power over many.

When Jesus said "Love your enemies" it certainly means don't be quick to judge your enemies. Look deeper into the situation. Try your best to understand them, treat them with the same importance as yourself, don't treat them like faceless targets to destroy.

And if you look at Isreal, they have not acted in ways that Jesus would approve either. In fact, Israel still acts the same way as the enemies of Christs would do.

 

[Nithavela]

Oh I have no doubt that Arabs have a lot of good people. But they're also have a lot of really bad people too. And I don't just mean a bad dude here and there. Just look at their history and even the current groups across the spectrum. They have a lot of terrorist organizations, brutal governments etc. And this is throughout the Arab world. I don't know if a lot of other people who send in suicide bombers. Randomly launch rockets into civilian areas, capture others and behead them on live tv, throw gay people off buildings and fly airplanes into sky scrapers. I don't know of a lot of people who treat their women like second or third class citizens, cut off their sexual pleasure areas and make them wear clothing with nothing but their eyes showing and don't let them drive.

Yes I know there are plenty of good Arabic people. But man there are enough bad ones that they are concerning.

Hamas is a prime example and Israel would have zero reason to grab territory if Hamas would keep their rockets themselves.

Not to quibble too much, but female genital mutilation is more of a cultural thing that is mostly confined to africa. In the arabic countries, it's only prevalent in egypt and to a minor degree in yemen and iraq. While most of the FGM countries in africa are of a muslim majority, there are also christian countries among them. For example, ethiopia has a 67.3 % christian majority and about 75 % of women in ethiopia have undergone some form of FGM. There is nothing in islam demanding FGM except a few statements by ancient religious scholars of doubtful credibility.

 

[Danthemailman]

Those Not Condemning Hamas are Antisemitic | Newsmax.com

It should not be difficult to condemn terrorism.

It has nothing to do with whether you support the current Israeli government and its policies.

One can sympathize with the plight of the Palestinians, as many of us do. But that has nothing to do with the brutal murders of women and children and the elderly, with the point-blank executions of 260 young people attending a music festival, with the slaughter of children in front of their parents or of parents in front of their children, as Hamas did.

For a very long time, those on the left who have been most critical of Israel's policies have insisted that they are anti-Israel and not antisemites. Not so.

Those who do not condemn Hamas are antisemites. It is as simple as that.

The mass murder of over 1,000 Jews — the worst day in Jewish history since the Holocaust — was driven by hatred of all Jews.

To blame Israel for this mass murder is an expression of antisemitism at its worst.

In New York's Times Square last Sunday, the antisemites held a rally in support of Palestine. They were joined by their allies — Nazis waving swastikas. What is wrong with these people? They are haters, and they cheer the butchers.

 

[Danthemailman]

Israel is only the first target, warns Hamas Commander in resurfaced video - Watch
Mahmoud al-Zahar: "The entire planet will be under our law, there will be no more Jews or Christian traitors."

WATCH: Israel is only the first target, warns Hamas commander

First the Saturday people (Jews) then the Sunday people. (Christians) It's an old saying in the world of radical Islam.

 

[High Fidelity]

This is going to get massively out of control.

All of the Gazans being pushed south, from which Hamas will still attack, will mean even more casualties than normal in retaliatory strikes. Hamas will love the free propaganda, the Arab and Muslim world will be outraged (as will their sizeable communities around the world) and Israel's Western allies will struggle to look the other way.

If this stays contained militarily in Israel it will be a miracle, but we will 100% feel the repercussions in the West for our support.

 

[rjs330]

Which country dropped nukes on two large cities in Japan?

You think America trying to stop WWII with Japan conquering or trying to conquer the entire south Pacific and eastern Asia and attacking Pearl Harbor and causing the death of around 10,000,000 in trying to set up their new Empire is remotely the same thing tells me a lot about why your arguments are so messed up. The Japanese just like the Arabs were absolutely brutal and someone needed to stop it. The thing is the Arabic community has a lot who are still brutal and terroristic while the Japanese have gone a different route.

 

[rjs330]

If only the Palestinians took their subjugation with grace and humility?
Where was that ever a “popular” move with the locals?

It's not Israel who was indiscriminately launching missles and sending in suicide bombers into the Palestinian areas to deliberately cause terrorism. That's the Palestinians.

You might check out how other Arabic countries have treated the Palestinians before you start dogging Israel.

 

[rjs330]

This only proves you haven't lived in the Middle East long enough to really know the Arabs.

There's only very few rotten apples but as our fallen world tends to consolidate power and wealth to a very few with the insane inequality in the distribution of wealth and power by this system, these very few rotten apples can achieve power over many.

When Jesus said "Love your enemies" it certainly means don't be quick to judge your enemies. Look deeper into the situation. Try your best to understand them, treat them with the same importance as yourself, don't treat them like faceless targets to destroy.

And if you look at Isreal, they have not acted in ways that Jesus would approve either. In fact, Israel still acts the same way as the enemies of Christs would do.

Look no country has. Some have been worse than others. And there are plenty of Arabs who would kill you for being a Christian or family members who do the same.

Gee if only you would apply your same arguments to the Arabs who are trying and have tried to destroy Israel. Who send in suicide bombers, blow up buildings with airplanes, cut off peoples heads, parade dead bodies through the streets, hold children hostage and throw gay people off of buildings.

No country has acted as Jesus would want. We are all fallen people. There is none righteous, no not one. The Arabs have a religion that totally rejects Christ and they use brutality and and terror in order to enforce their religious views. You should have a good understanding what happens to a Muslim who converts to Christianity.

One thing you seem to misunderstand here is that we are not calling for the Palestinians to be wiped out or the Arab world to be destroyed. That's what they want for Israel. And that's what far too many of them want for the rest of the world. Convert to Islam or else.

 

[Landon Caeli]

If only the Palestinians took their subjugation with grace and humility?
Where was that ever a “popular” move with the locals?

Everyone should thank God that I have no political power or authority. I would go too far with the one single issue.

 

[BPPLEE]

Look no country has. Some have been worse than others. And there are plenty of Arabs who would kill you for being a Christian or family members who do the same.

Gee if only you would apply your same arguments to the Arabs who are trying and have tried to destroy Israel. Who send in suicide bombers, blow up buildings with airplanes, cut off peoples heads, parade dead bodies through the streets, hold children hostage and throw gay people off of buildings.

No country has acted as Jesus would want. We are all fallen people. There is none righteous, no not one. The Arabs have a religion that totally rejects Christ and they use brutality and and terror in order to enforce their religious views. You should have a good understanding what happens to a Muslim who converts to Christianity.

One thing you seem to misunderstand here is that we are not calling for the Palestinians to be wiped out or the Arab world to be destroyed. That's what they want for Israel. And that's what far too many of them want for the rest of the world. Convert to Islam or else.

If they ever succeed in wiping out the Jews we would be next and these people that defend them would be among the first to be killed

 

[JosephZ]

Okay so even if everything you say is true, what's your alternative? Israel does nothing? Just takes this one on the chin and goes about normal life? Sits around and waits for next years possibly more massive attack from their genocidal neighbors?

Israel needs to focus exclusively on hunting down all of the terrorists responsible for the attack, including the leadership of Hamas, and holding them accountable. Israel also needs to stop the influx of outside funding from countries like Iran. Bombing Gaza and punishing everyone living there for the actions of Hamas isn't going to destroy Hamas or end future terror attacks against Israel. As I said in the post you quoted, the current approach is only going to exacerbate long-standing grievances between the Palestinians and Israel, and until those grievances are addressed, terrorist attacks against Israel will continue.

To defeat Hamas, Israel has to make supporting and joining them less attractive to Palestinians and potential recruits. This can be done by Israel recognizing and respecting a Palestinian state and improving the lives of the Palestinian people. Israel will need to play a direct role in rebuilding Gaza and improving infrastructure once the dust settles from this most recent bombardment. This, along with supporting economic development and offering livelihood opportunities, would go a long way in changing the attitude and mindset of those who live in Gaza. If Israel can show that they care more about the Palestinian people than Hamas, then Hamas will lose the support of the Palestinian people and their primary recruiting tool. This is the only way to destroy Hamas. To make this happen, it will take a concerted effort by the Israeli government, the UN, NGO's, and the Palestinians themselves.

 

[BPPLEE]

Israel needs to focus exclusively on hunting down all of the terrorists responsible for the attack, including the leadership of Hamas, and holding them accountable. Israel also needs to stop the influx of outside funding from countries like Iran. Bombing Gaza and punishing everyone living there for the actions of Hamas isn't going to destroy Hamas or end future terror attacks against Israel. As I said in the post you quoted, the current approach is only going to exacerbate long-standing grievances between the Palestinians and Israel, and until those grievances are addressed, terrorist attacks against Israel will continue.

To defeat Hamas, Israel has to make supporting and joining them less attractive to Palestinians and potential recruits. This can be done by Israel recognizing and respecting a Palestinian state and improving the lives of the Palestinian people. Israel will need to play a direct role in rebuilding Gaza and improving infrastructure once the dust settles from this most recent bombardment. This, along with supporting economic development and offering livelihood opportunities, would go a long way in changing the attitude and mindset of those who live in Gaza. If Israel can show that they care more about the Palestinian people than Hamas, then Hamas will lose the support of the Palestinian people and their primary recruiting tool. This is the only way to destroy Hamas. To make this happen, it will take a concerted effort by the Israeli government, the UN, NGO's, and the Palestinians themselves.

It wouldn’t matter if Israel did all those things. These people believe that Israel has no right to exist and will not ever stop until all Jews are eliminated. Making concessions just gives them more opportunities to find ways to attack and kill Jews

 

[JosephZ]

It wouldn’t matter if Israel did all those things. These people believe that Israel has no right to exist and will not ever stop until all Jews are eliminated. Making concessions just gives them more opportunities to find ways to attack and kill Jews

If this is what you believe, what is your soution to ending the Israeli-Palisenian conflict?