Do you trust God or Man when it comes to the creation?

[Strong in Him]

You want details but that is not included.
You want a better answer but you get the answer God gives you.

That's my entire point!
The word - yes, word, I am talking written word, not the eternal Word - does not give us details and tell us how.
God said, "let there be ......" and then God made. HOW did he make? You've just said, "we don't have details". We don't know, ad don't have details of, how he made.

Sorry, but I've made my point - that was it.
You are free to disagree and free to say to any scientists, "we know how God made, he spoke". I don't expect you'll get much of a discussion though.

 

[dwb001]

How do id you derive that "life expectancy of the Earth"?

1 day = 1k years
6 days Creation = 6k years of mans dominion on the Earth
7th day Lord Day = 1k years of Jesus reign on Earth

Then old Earth and heavens gone and eternal New Earth and Heavens.

Just a theory... but it has a beauty to it that sings. (Not a scientific reason but a reason with poetry)(God made a rational world and a poetic world... same world seen with different viewpoints)

 

[dwb001]

That's my entire point!
The word - yes, word, I am talking written word, not the eternal Word - does not give us details and tell us how.
God said, "let there be ......" and then God made. HOW did he make? You've just said, "we don't have details". We don't know, ad don't have details of, how he made.

He made by the Word... not the written word but the Word(Jesus). John 1.
So you agree that we don't have details... you are agreeing with me here.

Sorry, but I've made my point - that was it.
You are free to disagree and free to say to any scientists, "we know how God made, he spoke". I don't expect you'll get much of a discussion though.

I don't have to prove anything. I am trusting an eye witness account.
Scientists have to prove a different way.
Sorry.
This is not a God of the gaps but I just don't know the details.
And I know how to destroy the arguments of so called professional scientists.

 

[Strong in Him]

So you agree that we don't have details... you are agreeing with me here.

I told you that.
I said that the bible is not a science textbook, it does not tell us how God created; that is not its purpose.

 

[dwb001]

I told you that.
I said that the bible is not a science textbook, it does not tell us how God created; that is not its purpose.

It does not tell us scientifically how God created... it tells us historically how God created.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

1 day = 1k years
6 days Creation = 6k years of mans dominion on the Earth
7th day Lord Day = 1k years of Jesus reign on Earth

Then old Earth and heavens gone and eternal New Earth and Heavens.

Just a theory... but it has a beauty to it that sings. (Not a scientific reason but a reason with poetry)(God made a rational world and a poetic world... same world seen with different viewpoints)

Whatever floats your boat. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[d taylor]

There are scientists who are Christians, and have no conflict between their faith and their job (studying science.)

That is because they redefine creation areas so The Bible and science can agree.

They take an account of an event in The Bible like Joshua 10:12-15 and adjust the inspired account. To accommodate sciences creation, instead of The Bible. As the event, actually and literally was written to have happened, the way the event is recorded in The Bible.

 

[Jipsah]

Not "the word" but "the Word".

But many persons have gotten it wrong.

Yes.

Sorry that is not it.
First 7 days are 24 hours each.

Measured by what? Days are one rev of the Earth. as observed from sundown to sundown. Hours are an arbitrary subdivision of a day. The sun wasn't created until Day 4.

You want details but that is not included.

Grammar check. -5 points. So where details aren't given, are we to settle for Strongly held opinions on any given subject?

You want a better answer but you get the answer God gives you.

And the circle is completed.

Except there's a goodly bit of physical evidence that God left in His creation itself to lead us to believe that Creation took a good bit longer than 6 solar days.

Nope. Please show me where people discovered how a tree is made.
Not how a tree reproduces, but how was the first one made.

That's not a problem you have with mountain ranges or sea beds.

I don't know why God created everything.

Ley us know as soon as He tells you.

Did He want to, need to, desire to.... I don't care.
For me those sort of questions are not something I care about.

You specialize in Creation Scheduling, then.

 

[Jipsah]

First 7 days are 24 hours each.

Thus saith DWB.

The days is a "type" that maps onto the 1000 years formula.

That is simply silly. St. Peter compared a day to 1k years and 1k years to a day to illustrate that time was meaningless to God. "1000 years" signifies "a really long time", not some mystical template to map God;s schedule with.

So the life expectancy of the Earth is 7000 years... with the last 1000 being the Millennium Kingdom of Rev 20.
First days of Creation were 24 hours each.

Such amazing certainty based upon slipshod exegesis, wishful thinkin, and apparently limitless quantitles of chutzpah.

Nope. Please show me where people discovered how a tree is made.
Not how a tree reproduces, but how was the first one made.

Right after you share tje source of your Creation Chronology other having thunk it up by hand.

 

[Strong in Him]

That is because they redefine creation areas so The Bible and science can agree.

They take an account of an event in The Bible like Joshua 10:12-15 and adjust the inspired account. To accommodate sciences creation, instead of The Bible. As the event, actually and literally was written to have happened, the way the event is recorded in The Bible.

How do you know?

 

[Strong in Him]

It does not tell us scientifically how God created... it tells us historically how God created.

It tells us THAT God created.
Genesis says "God spoke .... then God made." I've been asking you HOW he made, and you agree that we don't know the details. Details tell us how something is done.
In other words, you don't know because we're not told.

End of discussion.

 

[dwb001]

Measured by what? Days are one rev of the Earth. as observed from sundown to sundown. Hours are an arbitrary subdivision of a day. The sun wasn't created until Day 4.

A day is measured by one revolution of the Earth around its axis... correct.
From sun up to sun down... incorrect.

Yes it is observers by the location of the Sun now... but is always measured by the Earths rotation.
There does not need to be a Sun for there to be a day.

Grammar check. -5 points. So where details aren't given, are we to settle for Strongly held opinions on any given subject?

I don't see a grammar issue but you are American... so we have differences.
When no details are given I settle for the eye witness testimony.
And why are you trying to expand the topic beyond the bounds of the discussion?

And the circle is completed.

Except there's a goodly bit of physical evidence that God left in His creation itself to lead us to believe that Creation took a good bit longer than 6 solar days.

What evidence. I see no evidence that it took more than 6 "solar" days to complete.

That's not a problem you have with mountain ranges or sea beds.

I believe it is. Do you account for catastrophic events in modern geology?
No... it is not possible in the modern geologists mind that the mountains we see today were as a result of the Flood.

Ley us know as soon as He tells you.

I expect He will. When I see Him I will be sure to inquire.

You specialize in Creation Scheduling, then.

Not me. When Adam asked God what was up.... God told him... he wrote it down... and I get to read it.

 

[Aussie Pete]

An interesting perspective, though I must respectfully disagree.
It seems like God created the Earth as just a bunch of water initially, as well as the creation of time, space, and matter, as we know it.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Time, Space, Matter)
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

I will say one verse that does add some sort of credence to your claim

Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

What is Adam and Eve supposed to replenish, if they are the first?

Lastly, was does not translate to "became" (past-tense), but it does translate to "become".

H1961 - hāyâ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

H1961 - הָיָה hâyâh, haw-yaw; a primitive root (compare ); to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):—beacon, altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, follow, happen, have...

www.blueletterbible.org

"hā·yə·ṯāh" has been translated "became". It makes no sense to say that Lot's wife "become" a pillar of salt. English does not always translate exactly from Hebrew. Respectfully, I don't understand why Creator God would make a planet formless, empty and uninhabitable, especially as that was not His intent (Isaiah 45:18)

 

[dwb001]

Thus saith DWB.

As I quote(parphrase) the Bible and the words of the One who set the ball rolling.

That is simply silly. St. Peter compared a day to 1k years and 1k years to a day to illustrate that time was meaningless to God. "1000 years" signifies "a really long time", not some mystical template to map God;s schedule with.

So says Jipsah.
Where do you think Peter got that idea from?
Would it have been possibly from Jesus?
Jesus otherwise known as the Word?
The Word which made the world?

Such amazing certainty based upon slipshod exegesis, wishful thinkin, and apparently limitless quantitles of chutzpah.

Spelling.

Right after you share tje source of your Creation Chronology other having thunk it up by hand.

And I see you left out my statement that is was just a theory.
I don't have to be right about it.
You deliberately left out the part where I say it is not a scientific reason at all.
So your "outrage" is insincere at best.

I am not offended at the least that I believe what I believe.
But I bet the answer to HOW God did it will be closer to my theories than yours.
I make a standard bet at times like these.

For the first 100 years on the New Earth...
if you are more correct I will make you a smoothy every month from the fruit of the Tree of Life...
if I am closer to the mark you make me a smoothy every month.

Bet?

 

[dwb001]

It tells us THAT God created.
Genesis says "God spoke .... then God made."

Where does it say "then God made"?
That phrase is not in Gen 1.
God spoke and it was.
That makes the act of speaking the act of creating.

I've been asking you HOW he made, and you agree that we don't know the details.

So that is two different things if you stop and look at it.
How? One question.
Details? Different question.

Details tell us how something is done.

In detail.
I washed the dishes vs I put the drain plug in the sink, then I filled the basin with hot water, then I added soap,...
Details are only needed if I am teaching you how to do the dishes.
God didn't need to give any details because Adam wasn't being asked to create a world.

In other words, you don't know because we're not told.

Right. And neither were you.

End of discussion.

Bye.

 

[d taylor]

How do you know?

Look how the Biblical account is adjusted in this article.

Probably the best explanation is simply to take Joshua 10 at face value—God performed a stupendous miracle, causing the sun to delay its “setting.” God stopped the motion of the earth.
Is it true that the sun stood still? | GotQuestions.org

In the account written in The Bible, it is plainly stated that the sun and moon stopped moving, they stood still.
So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven,

 

[Strong in Him]

Look how the Biblical account is adjusted in this article.

I meant, how do you know that the scientists are redefining "creation areas so the Bible and science can agree"?
How do you know they take a passage and redefine it?
You make it sound as though, having accepted Christ and started to read his word, they are changing the latter to fit with their scientific ideas. Where's your evidence for that?

 

[d taylor]

I meant, how do you know that the scientists are redefining "creation areas so the Bible and science can agree"?
How do you know they take a passage and redefine it?
You make it sound as though, having accepted Christ and started to read his word, they are changing the latter to fit with their scientific ideas. Where's your evidence for that?

Take a look at this article about Joshua 10:12-15, written by Russell M. Grigg M.Sc. (Hons.) Creationist Chemist and Missionary

He offers three explanations none of which state what The Bible states actually happened, that Joshua spoke to the Lord and ask God to stop the sun and moon and God listen to Joshua and granted his request. that the Lord heeded the voice of a man

This person ( Russell M. Grigg) has redefine the Joshua account because he believes in sciences version of God's creation, the earth rotating moving around the sun. So he has to make the account in Joshua some how work with sciences earth, sun version of creation. So he offer up three explanations, instead of believing the account as given in The Bible.

Link to the article Joshua’s long day

What actually happened?​

Suggested answers may be divided into three main categories:

1. Some form of refraction (bending) of the light from the sun and the moon. According to this view, God miraculously caused the sunlight and moonlight to continue in Canaan for ‘about a whole day’. Supporters of this view point out:7

1. It was light that Joshua needed, not a slowing of the Earth.
2. God promised Noah that ‘while the Earth remaineth … day and night shall not cease’ (Genesis 8:22). This could be seen to mean that God promised that the Earth would not stop rotating on its axis until the end of human history. (However, it would not seem to preclude a temporary slowing down of the Earth’s rotation.)
3. Some form of light refraction appears to have been what happened in the reign of Hezekiah when the shadow on Ahaz’s sundial retreated ten degrees (2 Kings 20:11)—an event that appears to have occurred only in the land of Palestine (2 Chronicles 32:31).
4. A wobble in the direction of the Earth’s axis of rotation.
   This involves a precession8 of the axis of the Earth, wobbling slowly so as to trace an ‘s’-shaped or circular path in the sky. Such an event could have made it appear to an observer that the sun and the moon were standing still, but need not have involved any actual slowing of the rotation of the Earth.
   One suggestion was that this was caused by the orbits of the Earth and Mars being close together on this date.1 One problem is that these authors postulate an ancient orbit for Mars different from its present one, and there is no proof that this ever happened. Other suggested causes have included impacts of asteroids on the Earth.
5. A slowing of the Earth’s rotation.
   According to this view, God caused the rotation of the Earth to slow down so that it made one full revolution in about 48 hours rather than 24. Simultaneously God stopped the cataclysmic effects that would have naturally occurred, such as monstrous tidal waves. Some people have objected to this on the erroneous assumption that, if the Earth slowed down, people and loose objects would fly off into space. In fact, the apparent centrifugal force (tending to throw things off the Earth) is only about one-three-hundredth of the gravitational force. If the Earth stopped rotating (whether suddenly or not), this outward ‘force’ would cease and we would actually be held more firmly by gravity.
   The Earth at the equator moves at about 1,600 km/h (1,000 mph). The velocity needed to escape from the Earth’s gravity is about 40,000 km/h (25,000 mph). If the Earth was spinning as fast as this, we would all fly off into space anyway, regardless of whether the Earth stopped suddenly or not!
   What about the momentum of people and objects travelling at 1,600 km/h on the Earth? Answer: A car travelling at 100 km/h can be stopped comfortably for the occupants in a few seconds; something travelling at 1,600 km/h could stop comfortably for passengers in a few minutes.
   This scenario need only imply that God slowed the rotation of the atmosphere, oceans, and Earth simultaneously to prevent any tidal-wave effect, and any heat build-up inside the Earth due to friction from still-rotating liquid layers of the Earth’s core. And after the long day was over, the whole process would need to start up again.
   It is certainly not impossible for God to have done all this, despite representing a major interruption of the natural order of things with respect to the Earth set up by God in Genesis 1.

 

[Strong in Him]

Take a look at this article about Joshua 10:12-15, written by Russell M. Grigg M.Sc. (Hons.) Creationist Chemist and Missionary

He offers three explanations none of which state what The Bible states actually happened, that Joshua spoke to the Lord and ask God to stop the sun and moon and God listen to Joshua and granted his request. that the Lord heeded the voice of a man

This person ( Russell M. Grigg) has redefine the Joshua account because he believes in sciences version of God's creation the earth rotating moving around the sun.

That one person may have done that. But you said "they" - implying all scientists who are also Christians.
One person doing something does not mean that everyone is guilty of the same thing.

And the earth does rotate around the sun.

 

[dwb001]

That one person may have done that. But you said "they" - implying all scientists who are also Christians.
One person doing something does not mean that everyone is guilty of the same thing.

And the earth does rotate around the sun.

That would be revolve around the sun. And that is a year.
Revolve(or rotate) around its axis. That would be a day.