Do you trust God or Man when it comes to the creation?

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

Ah, so you are a deluded anti-facts Qanon'er. Onto ignore you go.

Thanks brother.

 

[BeyondET]

What do you see when you look at the sky? I see either sun and clouds, or the moon and stars, depending on the time of day. How does that tell me all these things? What do you see when you look at the sky? Do you see millions of years of "history" or are you just repeating what you've been told by people with fancy pieces of paper? Where in the scriptures can I find this information?

With the bare eye not a whole lot but with a telescope other sun's, planet's, galaxies etc.

The word star is broad if your gazing at them with just your eyes. They all look the same until you open up your view of the sky and actually see what stars are like planets, nebulae and other objects that are not a sun aka star. Though in ancient times the planet's were called wondering stars, they had no knowledge about planet's.

The whole solar system condensed to one verse.

Gen 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

 

[BeyondET]

What about evolution? This is a theory deviod of God, so how can the Word and Evolution not be in conflict? God gave us his Word, man gave us science. Sure God created natural laws that we can observe, but when we start using those observations to discount the Word of God that's when it starts to become a problem.

Dirt is produced by alot of living and non living things, mostly from the living. The Bible doesn't give instructions on how that was done. It wasn't presto creation even the bible mentions a length of time.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Brothers and Sisters, greetings. Today I am going to present evidence for why I think we should trust the Bible and it's creation account as literal, meaning that the Earth is just several thousand years old, just over 6,000 to be more precise. Firstly let me just say that I do not think this issue is a matter of salvation, and therefore not essential, but I fear not trusting the Bible in this regard only helps the adversary further weaken our resolve and understanding when it comes to other issues.

Ok, so science (or the world) describes the Earth as being billions of years old. Lets see what the Bible says.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Now, scripture does tell us that a thousand years is like a day to God.
Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

When you consider the word "day" H3117 from the Genesis passage, it could be either literal or figurative, however looking at the words "evening" H6153 and "morning" H1242 there is much less room for interpretation and scripture seems to be pointing to an actual 24 hour day. The issue with people accepting this though, is because I would say for must of us, for our entire lives, we've been taught that the Bible is wrong, and science is right. However the creation story provides a completely contrary explanation for how we got here. Take for example that God created Earth on the first day, but made the stars on the fourth, not to mention making plants on the third!

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

According to science, how could God of made the earth, filled with plants, before he made the sun, moon, and stars? We must remember that God is all powerful and is not constrained by the laws of creation, as He is the one who made them. We are also told the Earth was made out of water; are we just to disregard that because science says otherwise?

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Again we see that a thousand years to God is like one day, we will come back to this in a bit. Before we do, lets address wisdom, or being wise. Are we, who are sinful and wicked, wise? Or is wisdom given to us through God. Basically are we "wise" in the ways and beliefs of the world, or are we "wise" in the ways of God? To paraphrase Jesus, we are in the world, but not of the world (John 17:14-16).

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Pro 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Jer 8:9 The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?
Dan 2:21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

All of these scriptures point to the fact that God gives us wisdom. Therefor if someone is wise, that is because they are wise in the ways of the Lord. See for instance the Jeremiah reference; they had rejected the Word of the Lord, and they had no wisdom!

1Cor 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Cor 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Cor 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Scripture clearly seems to clearly be rebuking what the "world" considers wise, because it is opposed to the truth of God. We should not be surprised by this because scripture also tells us that Satan is the ruler of this world.

2Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

So if Satan is running this earth (for a time), should we be surprised if the whole earth is teaching something that is contrary to God and his Word? Something that only causes people to fall away or not believe? We as followers of Christ, should forget what we think we know, and look to God's word for understanding. Do you prefer words from scientists and doctors over the words of God? If you read a difficult passage that doesn't fit your understanding do you disregard it because the world says otherwise?

I know some of you are still wondering, what about dinosaurs and fossils man!? We know, because of scripture, that there were giants before and after the flood.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Deu 3:13 And the rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, being the kingdom of Og, gave I unto the half tribe of Manasseh; all the region of Argob, with all Bashan, which was called the land of giants.

Not only were there giant men walking the earth after the flood, there were also giant plants and fruit.
Num 13:23 And they came unto the brook of Eshcol, and cut down from thence a branch with one cluster of grapes, and they bare it between two upon a staff; and they brought of the pomegranates, and of the figs.

Would it then be safe to assume if there were giant people and plants, there were giant animals as well? I think this more than satisfies how we could have "dinosaur" bones. What about the ageing though, the fossil record? Again, do you trust man or God? A great resource for fossilization, and a man much more versed on the subject than myself, I feel provides a very concise explanation and I will link a short video here.

So, the last reason I think the earth is only over 6,000 years is because the signs of the times. I think we are in the last days. Just as God made the Earth in a literal week, he will bring about its completion in a figurative week. Meaning, its been almost 2,000 years since the death and resurection of Jesus Christ. We are now in the figurative third day. We have already read how 1,000 years is like a single day to God. When did Jesus rise from the dead? On the third day. When will he return? On the third (figurative) day! Look around you and see the ever growing evil engulfing the earth! God's longsuffering is drawing to an end and Christ will be returning soon!

I will ask you one final time. Do you believe the Word of God, or the wisdom of man?

The 6,000 year timescale is correct in one way but is incomplete. There was a creation prior to that described in Genesis. That also was destroyed by a universal flood, hence the earth being covered in water. The word translated "was" can just as accurately be translated "became". As the 6,000 years of human history portrays the fall and restoration of man, so the six days of creation protrays the restoration of the earth after (I believe) Satan's fall through his pride and rebellion.

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

The 6,000 year timescale is correct in one way but is incomplete. There was a creation prior to that described in Genesis. That also was destroyed by a universal flood, hence the earth being covered in water. The word translated "was" can just as accurately be translated "became". As the 6,000 years of human history portrays the fall and restoration of man, so the six days of creation protrays the restoration of the earth after (I believe) Satan's fall through his pride and rebellion.

An interesting perspective, though I must respectfully disagree.
It seems like God created the Earth as just a bunch of water initially, as well as the creation of time, space, and matter, as we know it.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Time, Space, Matter)
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

I will say one verse that does add some sort of credence to your claim

Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

What is Adam and Eve supposed to replenish, if they are the first?

Lastly, was does not translate to "became" (past-tense), but it does translate to "become".

H1961 - hāyâ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

H1961 - הָיָה hâyâh, haw-yaw; a primitive root (compare ); to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):—beacon, altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, follow, happen, have...

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Again, do you trust man or God?

Your question is misleading and wrong. It should be, "Do you trust your interpretation of Genesis or do you trust the scientific method.?

Both have room for error. We have to be humble enough to admit that.

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

Your question is misleading and wrong. It should be, "Do you trust your interpretation of Genesis or do you trust the scientific method.?

Both have room for error. We have to be humble enough to admit that.

Let me start by saying I could very well be wrong, that Genesis 1 is not meant in literal sense. However, I do think it is speaking literally and thus my interpretation is exactly that, it literally says what it means.
Let me ask you this. If you don't think the creation account isn't speaking literally, why not? Is it because other areas of scripture that lead you to thinking that figurative language is being used? Or is it because a literal interpretation contradicts what we are taught in "science"?

 

[Diamond72]

I personally lean towards a flat earth, not a spherical one,

Are you really serious or joking? No one can deny Science that much. Most of us would not even be alive to deny science if it were not for science keeping us alive.

 

[Diamond72]

"Do you trust your interpretation of Genesis or do you trust the scientific method.?

I trust both. There is no conflict and no contradiction. No one has ever shown me any errors or mistakes in the original Bible. There maybe translation or interpretation issues. I do believe in the KJV when God says I watch over my word to perform what He says He is going to do. So the KJV is the best if you want to study the promises of God.

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

Are you really serious or joking? No one can deny Science that much. Most of us would not even be alive to deny science if it were not for science keeping us alive.

Please share, how is science keeping us alive when God gives us every breath?

Dan 5:22 And you his son, Belshazzar, have not humbled your heart, though you knew all this,
Dan 5:23 but you have lifted up yourself against the Lord of heaven. And the vessels of his house have been brought in before you, and you and your lords, your wives, and your concubines have drunk wine from them. And you have praised the gods of silver and gold, of bronze, iron, wood, and stone, which do not see or hear or know, but the God in whose hand is your breath, and whose are all your ways, you have not honored.

 

[Diamond72]

Please share, how is science keeping us alive when God gives us every breath?

My brother has done medical missionary work in third-world nations. There is a very high death rate when children are not vaccinated. There is a high infant mortality rate without doctors. There was a high death rate from infection before penicillin.

The fossil record indicates that Homo sapiens has been around for 315,000 years or so, but for most of that time, the species was rare—so rare, in fact, that it came close to extinction, perhaps more than once.

Yes, God did breath life into Adam and Eve.

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

Yes, God did breath life into Adam and Eve.

Just Adam and Eve?

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

 

[d taylor]

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The science area of science, that seeks to address creation is a science cult, built on lies.

 

[Diamond72]

Just Adam and Eve?

That is all the Bible talks about is Adam and Eve. Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

No mention in chapter one about the man before Adam having the breath of life. Genesis 1:27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Adam Called Eve Women. Genesis2:22And from the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man, He made a woman and brought her to him. 23And the man said: “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’ for out of man she was taken."

Before they are female, just like animals are male and female. There are very few words to work with in the beginning of Genesis. So we have to be very careful to read as much as we can and look as close as we can.

Overall, "nephesh" is a versatile word in Hebrew, and its precise meaning depends on the specific context in which it is used. It reflects the complex nature of the human person, encompassing physical, emotional, and spiritual aspects of life. When interpreting passages in the Hebrew Bible that use the word "nephesh," it's important to consider the broader context to understand its intended meaning.

 

[Diamond72]

The science area of science, that seeks to address creation is a science cult, built on lies.

I have no doubt that is what you believe. I am talking about all of the Bible, not just Genesis chapter one. Everyone has their own individual opinion about the first 32 verses in the Bible.

The very first thing we teach children in sunday school is about Joshua and the Battle of Jericho. IF you go to Jericho today they have excavated that ancient site. The wall is still there on the ground. God has preserved this for us and archeology shows us what God has given us. Clearly this is not a lie.

It is not that I would expect them to rebuild the wall. But I would expect them to use the stones to build a house or something different. In this case God has preserved the wall of Jericho for us to look at and study today. Thanks to the modern science of Archeology.

If you want to pick and choose what to beleive and what not to believe then you are intitled to do that.

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

Gen 2:7 And the LORDH3068 GodH430 formedH3335 (H853) manH120 of the dustH6083 ofH4480 the ground,H127 and breathedH5301 into his nostrilsH639 the breathH5397 of life;H2416 and manH120 becameH1961 a livingH2416 soul.H5315

As we can see there are two different words being used for breath in this verse
H5301
H5397
I want to focus on the second usage, and where else we can find it in the Bible.
A quick search reveals it is used 24 times!

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

 

[d taylor]

I have no doubt that is what you believe. I am talking about all of the Bible, not just Genesis chapter one. Everyone has their own individual opinion about the first 32 verses in the Bible.

The very first thing we teach children in sunday school is about Joshua and the Battle of Jericho. IF you go to Jericho today they have excavated that ancient site. The wall is still there on the ground. God has preserved this for us and archeology shows us what God has given us. Clearly this is not a lie.

It is not that I would expect them to rebuild the wall. But I would expect them to use the stones to build a house or something different. In this case God has preserved the wall of Jericho for us to look at and study today. Thanks to the modern science of Archeology.

If you want to pick and choose what to beleive and what not to believe then you are intitled to do that.

View attachment 335495

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I was not addressing the area of archeology, unless it is trying to by its platform. Discredit Biblical creation accounts, or events recorded in The Bible, like the flood, etc....

 

[BobRyan]

The bible does not clearly portray one creation story.

yes it does if one pays attention to the details.

It's actually two creation stories spliced together.

one story with two chapters of details.

If we take the nonsensical view of deleting each chapter of scripture as we read the start of the next chapter then we get to the nonsense result in chapter 2 of -- no air, no fish, no water, no seas, no sun, no moon .

The Bible model is always "both-and" instead of the logical fallacy of "either-or"

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Let me ask you this. If you don't think the creation account isn't speaking literally, why not? Is it because other areas of scripture that lead you to thinking that figurative language is being used? Or is it because a literal interpretation contradicts what we are taught in "science"?

It is because there are many literary genres in "The Bible" and the people of Biblical times were story tellers. Some literal interpretations, such as in Genesis, seem to me to lack logical sense and consistency. And the question must be raised, who wrote the creation accounts and how did that person come to write it. Divine inspiration can have many forms. I look to how Jesus used parable to express many truths. Psalms also have many metaphors woven into historical reflections. We each have to decide what makes most sense to us. I will go with science and view Genesis as myth. But that is not a criticism. Myth speaks a truth deeper than cold facts. Myth conveys meaning through story.

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

It is because there are many literary genres in "The Bible" and the people of Biblical times were story tellers. Some literal interpretations, such as in Genesis, seem to me to lack logical sense and consistency. And the question must be raised, who wrote the creation accounts and how did that person come to write it. Divine inspiration can have many forms. I look to how Jesus used parable to express many truths. Psalms also have many metaphors woven into historical reflections. We each have to decide what makes most sense to us. I will go with science and view Genesis as myth. But that is not a criticism. Myth speaks a truth deeper than cold facts. Myth conveys meaning through story.

Thankyou for your explanation!