Repent & be baptized ISN'T the message for the Church today

[BNR32FAN]

Do you agree or disagree with the OP. Is repent & be baptized to receive the Holy Spirit the message for today's Body of Christ?

Acts 2 & 9:17 are before the cited change in Acts 10.

Finally, would you be king enough to tell us when the Acts 8 convert received the H/s?

Repent and believe means turn from unbelief to belief. Everyone who believes has already repented of their unbelief and no one receives the Holy Spirit without believing. So no one can receive the Holy Spirit without repenting of their unbelief.

 

[rturner76]

It would seem that water baptism was desired by Jesus though I don't know if he needed to repent as he lived a perfect sin-free life. Still, Jesus accepted and was moved by the message of John the Baptist so why would we eliminate it?

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Ok, and your ignoring the text isn't foolish? BTW, I didn't write them.

1 Cor 12:13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


Col 2:11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

You can't understand biblical texts that apply water to the human body with the Trinue formula (the administration baptism) in distinction to Paul's teaching about what Baptism does AFTER the person is baptized.

This is not rocket science. This is basic comprehension.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

A outwardly public statement of the inward spiritual change.

You still have not given me the place that I can find this definition baptism in Scripture.
Chapter and verse please.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So you DO believe baptism is optional due to your quotation "No H20 required." This is my take on post #25.

So when Jesus instituted baptism in the Great Commission, was it a command or polite suggestion to "baptize" all nations?

Can you give me an example of an UNBAPTIZED christian in the NT?

Yeah he does this a lot. You ask a simple question and he won’t answer it.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Yeah he does this a lot. You ask a simple question and he won’t answer it.

No kidding!

 

[BrotherJJ]

Repent and believe means turn from unbelief to belief. Everyone who believes has already repented of their unbelief and no one receives the Holy Spirit without believing. So no one can receive the Holy Spirit without repenting of their unbelief.

That didn't answer the question either.
Do you agree or disagree with the OP. Is repent & be baptized """to receive the Holy Spirit""" the message for today's Body of Christ?

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, :""""Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins"""",
""""""""and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost""""".

 

[BrotherJJ]

Ain't Zwinglian said:
So you DO believe baptism is optional due to your quotation "No H20 required." This is my take on post #25.

So when Jesus instituted baptism in the Great Commission, was it a command or polite suggestion to "baptize" all nations?

Can you give me an example of an UNBAPTIZED christian in the NT?

I answered his question in post #25.

Yeah he does this a lot. You ask a simple question and he won’t answer it.

He didn't (still hasn't) answered my question. In spite of that I continued to support my position. Only to be asked to answer, questions I had already addressed. The great commission was answered in the OP. The unbaptized question is nonsense. Can he provide me with example's where every believer was water baptized?

BTW BNR32, I answered your questions until it was clear. I was the only one doing the answering. So, I began to do what you were doing. Not reading anything you said. And replying with the message I was interested in discussing.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

He didn't (still hasn't) answered my question.

What specifically is the question?

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

The great commission was answered in the OP.

I couldn't find it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That didn't answer the question either.
Do you agree or disagree with the OP. Is repent & be baptized """to receive the Holy Spirit""" the message for today's Body of Christ?

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, :""""Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins"""",
""""""""and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost""""".

Yes absolutely.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I answered his question in post #25.

He didn't (still hasn't) answered my question. In spite of that I continued to support my position. Only to be asked to answer, questions I had already addressed. The great commission was answered in the OP. The unbaptized question is nonsense. Can he provide me with example's where every believer was water baptized?

BTW BNR32, I answered your questions until it was clear. I was the only one doing the answering. So, I began to do what you were doing. Not reading anything you said. And replying with the message I was interested in discussing.

That’s not true at all and I can prove it by showing where I gave specific explanations to your questions in depth and every time I asked you how you could say that the Galatians were never saved when Paul specifically said that they had received the Holy Spirit and you just Kept replying by posting a ton of verses and vine’s definitions about being sealed with the Holy Spirit. Then when you finally did reply you said that Galatians 5:4 was Paul speaking to the Judaizers and when I kept pointing out that throughout the entire epistle Paul never once refers to the Judaizers as “you” he always referred to them as “they”, “some” or “those”. He always referred to them in the third person not as “you”. And you never would respond to that, you just kept posting a ton of verses and vine’s definitions that had nothing to do with the discussion. Now if you want to deny that then I’ll be more than happy to post the entire conversation here in this thread to prove my point.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

The unbaptized question is nonsense. Can he provide me with example's where every believer was water baptized?

Really? So you really do believe baptism is optional!

Does your non denominational church teach this also. In otherwords, when a person is converted to Christianity, does your church say "You really don't need to be baptized."

I am still waiting for you to comment on the Great Commission and baptism as it is not specifically mentioned in the OP. Was Jesus giving a command to Christians to be baptized or was it a polite suggestion?

These are simple questions. Nothing complex here.

 

[Guojing]

This has to do with "time" and God presence in time.
It has repeatedly been shown over the last 100 years and never disproven that time is relative, so I believe time is relative and very relative for God.
I see God being outside of time and not limited by time and God might have even created time for us.
God, in His existence at the end of time, would know historically all my free will choices I made throughout my life making them unchangeable (history cannot be changed [it happened]).
God at the end of time can send all that historical information back to Himself at the beginning of time, thus knowing what I did and for me, what I will do (and it is unchangeable).

So my point is simply this, the "repent" in Acts 2:38 has a very specific meaning to the Men of Israel, Acts 2:36, which cannot be applicable to you.

You cannot repent for killing your messiah because he was not promised to you, nor sent to you in the first place (Matthew 1:21, Matthew 15:24, Romans 15:8, Acts 2:36).

Yes, I agree with you that God had a divine plan to use the cross to forgive all our sins, circumcision and uncircumcision alike, but that is a different context from Acts 2:38.

 

[Guojing]

I am still waiting for you to comment on the Great Commission and baptism as it is not specifically mentioned in the OP. Was Jesus giving a command to Christians to be baptized or was it a polite suggestion?

These are simple questions. Nothing complex here.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

A far simpler question you can ask yourself is this, who is the them that the GC was spoken to?

 

[Guojing]

It would seem that water baptism was desired by Jesus though I don't know if he needed to repent as he lived a perfect sin-free life. Still, Jesus accepted and was moved by the message of John the Baptist so why would we eliminate it?

Jesus lived under the Law of Moses, so by the time John the Baptist emerged with his message, water baptism was necessary for Israel to obey so as to show their faith (Luke 7:29-30).

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

A far simpler question you can ask yourself is this, who is the them that the GC was spoken to?

Good question. Jesus gave His Great Commission to at least his eleven disciples (Judas by this time hung himself). The time period would be the forty days between his resurrection and his ascension. The question is raised: Were others present besides the Eleven when Jesus gave the GC? St. Paul states there were up to 500 people who witnessed and saw the resurrected Christ before his ascension. So establishing min-max numbers.....at minimum eleven and at max 500.

This is not the question I was asking BrotherJJ. BrotherJJ seems to think baptism is optional for the believing Christian. So I asked him did Jesus command all nations to be baptized or sarcastically asked him if Jesus were just giving a polite suggestion? Three times in Scripture states as a COMMAND to be baptized: (Mt. 28:19, Mark 16:16, and Acts 2:38). It seems BrotherJJ as maybe some kind of contempt for baptism. I don't know. In all my life, I have encounter only one other person who believed baptism was optional for a Christian.

And it is a short step from teaching baptism as optional for a christian to baptism must be avoided at all costs.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Repent and believe means turn from unbelief to belief. Everyone who believes has already repented of their unbelief and no one receives the Holy Spirit without believing. So no one can receive the Holy Spirit without repenting of their unbelief.

That is true unbelief is the unforgiveable sin. Having said that, unbelief wasn't the repent (context) message from the Baptist or Jesus. All Jews believed in God. Nor was the death & resurrection part of their message.

Jesus death & resurrection is the core new covenant massage. And anyone today that doesn't BELIEVE/rejects Christ death & resurrection is in unbelief.

Why was Jesus baptized. He was sinless & had nothing to repent from:

John the Baptist & Jesus Priest's & Prophets

 

[Guojing]

The question is raised: Were others present besides the Eleven when Jesus gave the GC? St. Paul states there were up to 500 people who witnessed and saw the resurrected Christ before his ascension. So establishing min-max numbers.....at minimum eleven and at max 500.

True, Paul did say that there were many people who saw the resurrected Christ, but you cannot infer that meant any of them, other than the 11, were present when the GC was given to the 11.

 

[BrotherJJ]

I couldn't find it.

All of this is found in the OP. The GC you've cited was given to Jews, for Jews Only. Acts 11:19 below speaks directly to your question.

Matt 15:24 Messiah answered & said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(SCRIPTURE PROCLAIMS: Jesus was sent, ONLY, to the lost sheep of the ""House of Israel"")

Rom 15:8 I say that Messiah was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
(SCRIPTURE PROCLAIMS: Messiah was sent to minister to the circumcision/JEWS, To fulfil OT promises made to the Hebrew fathers)

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
(MY NOTE: This is after Stephens death (6 yrs after Jesus death & resurrection) these Jewish converts that had fled Israel. Running for their lives from law zealots like Saul. They are still only sharing Christ with OTHER JEWS!).

Acts 10:28 Peter said unto them, Ye know how that it is an """unlawful""" thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean
(BTW: Jesus died on the cross 7 yrs before Peter tells Cornelius (an Italian/gentile) "IT'S UNLAWFUL" for a Jew to hang out with a gentile, Jesus faithfully kept the law)

Matt 15:26 Jesus said; It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
(MY NOTE Jesus calls this gentile woman of Canaan (that He helped) a dog. Jews often referred to Gentiles as "dogs" Matt 7:6)

Gentiles were considered (like dogs) unclean/ungodly (living outside of covenant seals & purification laws). Just being in their presence could make a Jew ceremonially unclean (Jn 18:28)

Gal 4:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
(SCRIPTURE PROCLAIMS: God sent forth his Son """made under the law""" to """redeem those under the law/JEWS""")

Jesus's in the flesh mission was to the lost sheep of the ""House of Israel"" ONLY!

A/the new covenant (that will include gantiles) doesn't/can't begin until after Jesus dies.

Heb 9:
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
(MY NOTE: Jesus kept, lived, taught & fulfilled the old covenant Mosaic laws. There can be no new covenant until after Jesus (the Testator) dies.

Study tips from a pro:
Myles Coverdale; Bible theologian/translator. He wrote the Coverdale Bible. Say's don't judge scripture by what is spoken, or written only.

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.

Who was preaching? JESUS, John & the 12!
Who was Jesus preaching to? JEWS UNDER THE LAW! Reread Matt 15:24, Rom 15:8 above.
What's the timeframe? PRE-DEATH!
Where? ISRAEL!
To what intent? REDEEM THOSE UNDER THE LAW/JEWS! Reread Gal 4:4-5 above.

Jesus earthly mission was to/for Israel ONLY! This message is void of Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection. The OT God given Levitical animal sacrificial system dealt with (covered) Israel's sin.

Gentiles had NO PART in the All Jewish gospel of the kingdom message.

A glimpse of God's promised coming Kingdom to Israel:
2 Sam 7:12-13, 1 Chron 17:10-14, Isa 9:6-7,11:1-9, Dan 2:44,7:13-14, Mic 4:1-5, Zec 14:1-21, Lk 1:32-33.